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On March 16 2015 07:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:05 KissBlade wrote:
I didn't but I thought when GET collapsed, TSM would have this tourney, especially after game 1 against WE. I still think GET should've won if they didn't derp so hard against WE game 2. How the fuck did you think TSM wasn't going to get out of groups? Going into the tournament, I thought 1) CJ 2) TSM was pretty much the only way to predict group B coming out. I don't see how anyone could *expect* TSM to do worse than Gambit and WE.
Dunno I believed in Diamondgod =\ and the IEM Gambit powerup too much I guess ...
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United States47024 Posts
There hasn't been any "IEM Gambit powerup" since they stopped being an all-CIS team.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
I didn't expect gambit to do well but not quite like how I expected. I though their reliance on big teamfight comps would just get picked apart by CJ and TSM. Not for betsy to randomly get annihilated on TF against Xiye's diana lmao.
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On March 16 2015 07:13 TheYango wrote:
There hasn't been any "IEM Gambit powerup" since they stopped being an all-CIS team.
Ah, the good ol' CIS troll until major LAN tourny effect.
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On March 16 2015 07:09 AlterKot wrote:
Fredy or Smeb. The real strugglers.
you mean the freddy that invaded YOE Flashwolves jungle 3 times solo while half his tem was in the fountain?
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On March 16 2015 07:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:05 KissBlade wrote:
I didn't but I thought when GET collapsed, TSM would have this tourney, especially after game 1 against WE. I still think GET should've won if they didn't derp so hard against WE game 2. How the fuck did you think TSM wasn't going to get out of groups? Going into the tournament, I thought 1) CJ 2) TSM was pretty much the only way to predict group B coming out. I don't see how anyone could *expect* TSM to do worse than Gambit and WE. Even if you thought NA was a bad region, there's no way you could think that TSM would do THAT badly.
Some gave Gambit equal chances to advance as TSM. Before the tournament that didn't seem like a crazy thing to say either
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On March 16 2015 07:12 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:10 TheYango wrote:On March 16 2015 07:05 KissBlade wrote:
I didn't but I thought when GET collapsed, TSM would have this tourney, especially after game 1 against WE. I still think GET should've won if they didn't derp so hard against WE game 2. How the fuck did you think TSM wasn't going to get out of groups? Going into the tournament, I thought 1) CJ 2) TSM was pretty much the only way to predict group B coming out. I don't see how anyone could *expect* TSM to do worse than Gambit and WE. Dunno I believed in Diamondgod =\ and the IEM Gambit powerup too much I guess ...
The Gambit IEM storyline is always pushed super hard, but they lost the actual world championship even after winning in Katowice.
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On March 16 2015 06:52 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 06:47 orzeu wrote:
To be world class team you at least need to be top 8 in the World and TSM clearly aren't. There's no way to say they are and there's no way to say they aren't. In fact, with the way LoL is setup, there's no way to make judgments about the overall parity of teams beyond the few teams that go out of a region.
Also, TSM was technically fifth at worlds last year so...
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On March 16 2015 07:08 Vonthin wrote:
What top laner would you guys gave the best performance this tournament, I can't any games where a top dominated
Smeb was pretty clearly the best top laner at this event, even in the wake of losing to WE. Not his fault his team shit the bed at all. What is he supposed to do as a tank when his team is falling behind in the laning phase with a corki lineup.
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On March 16 2015 07:16 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 06:52 Azarkon wrote:On March 16 2015 06:47 orzeu wrote:
To be world class team you at least need to be top 8 in the World and TSM clearly aren't. There's no way to say they are and there's no way to say they aren't. In fact, with the way LoL is setup, there's no way to make judgments about the overall parity of teams beyond the few teams that go out of a region. Also, TSM was technically fifth at worlds last year so...
5th-8th.
They would have struggled to make it out of groups in Champions last year though.
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On March 16 2015 07:17 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:16 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 16 2015 06:52 Azarkon wrote:On March 16 2015 06:47 orzeu wrote:
To be world class team you at least need to be top 8 in the World and TSM clearly aren't. There's no way to say they are and there's no way to say they aren't. In fact, with the way LoL is setup, there's no way to make judgments about the overall parity of teams beyond the few teams that go out of a region. Also, TSM was technically fifth at worlds last year so... 5th-8th. They would have struggled to make it out of groups in Champions last year though.
Let's be real. 3-8th looked like a 50/50 for pretty much any matchup at that event. I'm still of the opinion SHRC overperformed again to reach the finals. Actually, I take that back. NJWS were shit and cloud 9 were even shittier for losing to them twice.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i don't know about NA being world class. such a small sample size to judge from.
the dota tourney, DAC, featured full double round robins of the top 20 or whatever teams in the world, and teams prepared their own set of strategies for that tourney. this IEM is a eight team invite tourney that isn't even a mid-major.
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If GET had won this tournament everyone would just be like "omg korrea best region omg" "wow i think korea is just never gonna be beaten ever omg pls love me senpais"
Gotta love TL forums
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On March 16 2015 07:25 las91 wrote:
If GET had won this tournament everyone would just be like "omg korrea best region omg" "wow i think korea is just never gonna be beaten ever omg pls love me senpais"
Gotta love TL forums
Korea will be the best region at worlds regardless of what happened this tournament. China and Korea are the strongest regions at the moment, and until those teams face off in a Bo5 making any judgements about it seems premature. MSI hype.
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On March 16 2015 07:11 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:02 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On March 16 2015 07:01 Azarkon wrote:On March 16 2015 07:00 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On March 16 2015 06:58 Azarkon wrote:
The difficulty of accepting TSM as a world class team reminds me of the same difficulty in Dota 2 when it came to accepting EG as a world class team, and afterward the best team in the world, in the wake of DAC. When a region - in this case NA - has been seen as a joke for so long by the "esports community" it is indeed difficult to believe that it is ever capable of escaping that level. But such are the facts: in both Dota and LoL, NA has become world class, while EU has declined. can you link me to posts claiming china was still stronger after DAC happened? because i don't remember that reaction happening. it was more surprise than denial, though most people seemed to believe pre-DAC that china was still on top. I made no statements about China. It's about perceptions of NA being on top. again, can you link posts denying that EG was on top? the closest thing i saw was people claiming secret were still competitive against them, which isn't a far stretch. i didn't even see many people try to claim secret was stronger than EG after the dust settled. overall, i don't think it's a good analogy at all, mainly because DAC actually featured all of the strongest teams in dota, while it's clear this IEM didn't Oh, there were tons when EG was getting started in the Western scene, and tons of people believed going into TI 4 that EU was going to outperform NA - ie Alliance was going to step up, Fnatic was going to step up, Na'Vi was going to get to the finals again, etc. I'm not sure whether I have the patience to go back and find them, though. As for DAC results, even after EG beat Secret and VG, there was widespread belief that it was only because China was reshuffling and so the results didn't count, and we have to wait till TI 5 before saying EG is the best team, etc. Not to mention all the people who thought Secret was going to completely dump on EG and again regain the throne for EU. It's just a mental resistance I find again and again to NA being on top, even though in the last 1-2 years, I daresay NA has been outperforming EU in just about every major international tournament across MOBA games.
I remember EG being heavily doubted going into TI4 despite how easily they had been beating every European team they faced for months.
But after DAC I don't think there was any debate or argument
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On March 16 2015 07:22 oneofthem wrote:
i don't know about NA being world class. such a small sample size to judge from.
the dota tourney, DAC, featured full double round robins of the top 20 or whatever teams in the world, and teams prepared their own set of strategies for that tourney. this IEM is a eight team invite tourney that isn't even a mid-major.
But that is a fundamental weakness of LoL international competitions - in which case ALL LoL international results are vulnerable to the same argument. You never get, in LoL, the sort of 16 team round robin double eliminations that you get in Dota. The result is that every minor result gets exaggerated, but that's inevitable given that Riot runs three international tournaments every year and only 10-20 games in two of them.
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On March 16 2015 07:25 las91 wrote:
If GET had won this tournament everyone would just be like "omg korrea best region omg" "wow i think korea is just never gonna be beaten ever omg pls love me senpais"
Gotta love TL forums
If they won 3-0 probably yeah and say CJ just underperformed/were not top 3 in Korea somehow despite Jinair not looking that much better and SKT still not being clean in the mid game.
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Eh I think I've been taking too much away from TSM this thread.
I really hope this tourney was a wakeup call for Korea and hopefully orgs will start treating their players better.
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On March 16 2015 07:25 las91 wrote:
If GET had won this tournament everyone would just be like "omg korrea best region omg" "wow i think korea is just never gonna be beaten ever omg pls love me senpais"
Gotta love TL forums
Even if GET had won this tourney, I'd still say EDG, Snake are stronger teams.
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On March 16 2015 07:25 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:25 las91 wrote:
If GET had won this tournament everyone would just be like "omg korrea best region omg" "wow i think korea is just never gonna be beaten ever omg pls love me senpais"
Gotta love TL forums Korea will be the best region at worlds regardless of what happened this tournament. China and Korea are the strongest regions at the moment, and until those teams face off in a Bo5 making any judgements about it seems premature. MSI hype.
I don't think Korea is a strong region at all. I think GE are still top 3 in the world if they don't choke, but I'm not ready to put SKT, Jinair, or whatever in that conversation. As sad as it is, I think SKT could have easily lost to TSM at their current level. They are severely lacking in good junglers, but it actually amazes me when I watch TSM. I don't think Santorin carries their early game at all yet they still somehow come out on top these games and people blame Bengi or blame Faker's performance on being camped when people are starting to do the same for Bjergsen.
Chinese fans getting way too cocky though acting like they won this tournament. TSM made WE look like the 12th placed team they are.
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EPT
