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On September 17 2013 05:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, the only thing I can think of that would stop Faker is something outside the game itself. Look at Toyz for example (who I always bring up cuz he's my favorite player ever)-- destroyed in S2 finals, top 5 mids for most of S3 and won that silly best mid thing at allstars, quit because TPA collapsed and he lost his passion for the game.
EDIT: Aegis builds into Locket.
Derp. My mind is stuck a few patches ago.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On September 17 2013 05:15 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
If there's one thing I learned from nearly a decade of ESPORTS, it's that no heroes are invincible.
Believing in the perpetuity of any player just sets you up for crushing disappointment. Flash will always be untouchable.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/424
Main Achievements: [ Display all leagues played ]
1 entry, 1 page
Winner: 2012 KeSPA Major League Gaming Exhibition Tournament 6 games
#ok
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On September 17 2013 05:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:15 Jacmert wrote:On September 17 2013 05:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
If there's one thing I learned from nearly a decade of ESPORTS, it's that no heroes are invincible.
Believing in the perpetuity of any player just sets you up for crushing disappointment. Flash will always be untouchable. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/424Main Achievements: [ Display all leagues played ] 1 entry, 1 page Winner: 2012 KeSPA Major League Gaming Exhibition Tournament 6 games #ok
I was kidding  I like how Taeja seems to be back in form, though  ST_Life, too. And DRG is surprisingly resurgent (although that perception may be due to Artosis' over-hyping).
I never thought Jaedong would surpass Flash in SC2 in terms of who we consider dominant atm, like he has now.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 17 2013 05:12 XaCez wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:09 Doctorbeat wrote:
Just saw SKT vs OMG, why did Bengi sell Aegis for Locket? :/ Should we tell him?
Haha I got a pretty good laugh out of this.
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On September 17 2013 05:21 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On September 17 2013 05:15 Jacmert wrote:On September 17 2013 05:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
If there's one thing I learned from nearly a decade of ESPORTS, it's that no heroes are invincible.
Believing in the perpetuity of any player just sets you up for crushing disappointment. Flash will always be untouchable. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/424Main Achievements: [ Display all leagues played ] 1 entry, 1 page Winner: 2012 KeSPA Major League Gaming Exhibition Tournament 6 games #ok I was kidding I like how Taeja seems to be back in form, though ST_Life, too. And DRG is surprisingly resurgent (although that perception may be due to Artosis' over-hyping). I never thought Jaedong would surpass Flash in SC2 in terms of who we consider dominant atm, like he has now.
To be fair, Terran has always had it rough competitively. Any time anything is strong for Terran is seems to be stomped down the next patch, while other races are given time. Doesn't help that Innovation was better at the Terran style when Terran was having a good patch.
On September 17 2013 05:00 Dodgin wrote:
starts at 7 PM today? dang, EU getting fucked.
It's not all that great for east coast NA either. =\
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Wait you guys saying that 4 am is a bad time for europeans?
That's crazy talk
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On September 17 2013 05:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
If there's one thing I learned from nearly a decade of ESPORTS, it's that no heroes are invincible.
Believing in the perpetuity of any player just sets you up for crushing disappointment. in regards to this, because i link this every chance i get, this is mandatory reading http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=61851
I mean, isn't that part what makes sports and esports so exciting?
I brought up this originally because Faker is absolutely godlike. He's among the top-3 on literally every playable mid today, and on some that aren't even considered playable, in pretty much all matchups. His mechanics and decision making are unparalleled. And he will almost surely be overtaken by another, lesser (or even unknown) player within the next few months. Just like nada, oov, savior, ambition, etc before him. It's scary to think about.
Blaze won 14 in a row. Fourteen. What the hell. Then Ambition suddenly looks completely lost. While I don't think Faker will ever regress as badly as Ambition did, it just shows how one series can entirely alter our perception of a player, and how much one series of bad losses can affect a player/team.
Korea is just a breeding ground for great players. CJ is already recruiting solo queue players to see who can be the next big thing. NA/EU doesn't have this kind of pipeline; talented solo queue players rarely get to join great organizations, but have to make them from scratch, which severely limits the growth of new blood. I won't be surprised if a few months from now, we say "wow, this random guy named 'Mr Dagger' just crushed the untouchable world champion Faker in lane".
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I'm off to bed, let's see if I can get up by 6 AM.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
in the start of brood war, or any other game, new talent and strats were coming up constantly, so it'd be silly to expect a top player to stay on top.
but when you have a situation where the top ladder player is still the top player, and he's pretty much as talented as players can be, then that guy is pretty legit. at this point vague generalities like 'no player can stay on top forever' will have to answer to the question of what source of talent is coming to dwarf him. i don't see any
at best there'll be more faker level players
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On September 17 2013 05:50 oneofthem wrote:
in the start of brood war, or any other game, new talent and strats were coming up constantly, so it'd be silly to expect a top player to stay on top.
but when you have a situation where the top ladder player is still the top player, and he's pretty much as talented as players can be, then that guy is pretty legit. at this point vague generalities like 'no player can stay on top forever' will have to answer to the question of what source of talent is coming to dwarf him. i don't see any
It's always the one you don't see coming that lays you out.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On September 17 2013 05:50 oneofthem wrote:
in the start of brood war, or any other game, new talent and strats were coming up constantly, so it'd be silly to expect a top player to stay on top.
but when you have a situation where the top ladder player is still the top player, and he's pretty much as talented as players can be, then that guy is pretty legit. at this point vague generalities like 'no player can stay on top forever' will have to answer to the question of what source of talent is coming to dwarf him. i don't see any
the rest of korea
like
i don't understand how you guys are so set on "faker will be god forever" when we literally said the same thing about ambition and dade. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can deny and point out supposed differences all you want, and i will call bullshit - it's the exact same pattern, but every time, we say "NO, you don't get it, THIS time will be different"
sure faker may reign for a bit, but no one will reign forever is not a vague generality, it's a universal truth
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
well yea obviously he's not going to be on top forever, but he'll be there for quite a bit. when you stretch the definition of forever, then it does become a truism, but not very meaningful.
point is there can be a plateau for talent, rather than endless rapid succession. the latter is only really seen in teh beginning of a game
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About the TF on KOG subject:
1. TF is very underpriced in general.
2. Every kog spell deals magic damage and scales well with AP. TF gives +30 AP. This magic damage is further increased by having 2xDFG in team.
3. You got a hyper mobile high damage comp with (eve+ahri)+shen on one of them. This isnt a "protect the kog" comp, this is an engage-assasination squad. What KOG needs is extreme mobility to catch up to the engage and do damage IN TIME. Nothing gives more mobility than TF.
Conclusion: TF was BY FAR the optimal choice for this game
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Baa?21247 Posts
On September 17 2013 05:54 oneofthem wrote:
point is there can be a plateau for talent, rather than endless rapid succession. the latter is only really seen in teh beginning of a game
This is where I disagree - assuming the game is a good enough game to be an "ESPORT."
At the end of BW we were still seeing innovation and new talent rising or old talent reemerging - there was, at no point during the 10+ year history of BW, a plateau.
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United States23455 Posts
Two feeders shall enter.
Only one will leave with a KDA over 1.
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On September 17 2013 05:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:50 oneofthem wrote:
in the start of brood war, or any other game, new talent and strats were coming up constantly, so it'd be silly to expect a top player to stay on top.
but when you have a situation where the top ladder player is still the top player, and he's pretty much as talented as players can be, then that guy is pretty legit. at this point vague generalities like 'no player can stay on top forever' will have to answer to the question of what source of talent is coming to dwarf him. i don't see any the rest of korea like i don't understand how you guys are so set on "faker will be god forever" when we literally said the same thing about ambition and dade. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can deny and point out supposed differences all you want, and i will call bullshit - it's the exact same pattern, but every time, we say "NO, you don't get it, THIS time will be different" sure faker may reign for a bit, but no one will reign forever is not a vague generality, it's a universal truth
Yeah, but faker doesn't have to play against himself
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On September 17 2013 05:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:54 oneofthem wrote:
point is there can be a plateau for talent, rather than endless rapid succession. the latter is only really seen in teh beginning of a game This is where I disagree - assuming the game is a good enough game to be an "ESPORT." At the end of BW we were still seeing innovation and new talent rising or old talent reemerging - there was, at no point during the 10+ year history of BW, a plateau.
I think for long time esports fans like you and myself, we know this to be the case. A lot of newer players/fans have yet to experience this for themselves, which is a good thing!
Just review the comments from these articles pre OGN spring finals:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414891
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417163
Look at the comments from Letmelose and Neoillusions in the first thread. That was the prevailing opinion of Ambition at the time; oh how fast they change. The higher the peak, the more spectacular the fall.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On September 17 2013 05:58 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On September 17 2013 05:50 oneofthem wrote:
in the start of brood war, or any other game, new talent and strats were coming up constantly, so it'd be silly to expect a top player to stay on top.
but when you have a situation where the top ladder player is still the top player, and he's pretty much as talented as players can be, then that guy is pretty legit. at this point vague generalities like 'no player can stay on top forever' will have to answer to the question of what source of talent is coming to dwarf him. i don't see any the rest of korea like i don't understand how you guys are so set on "faker will be god forever" when we literally said the same thing about ambition and dade. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can deny and point out supposed differences all you want, and i will call bullshit - it's the exact same pattern, but every time, we say "NO, you don't get it, THIS time will be different" sure faker may reign for a bit, but no one will reign forever is not a vague generality, it's a universal truth Yeah, but faker doesn't have to play against himself
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 17 2013 05:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:54 oneofthem wrote:
point is there can be a plateau for talent, rather than endless rapid succession. the latter is only really seen in teh beginning of a game This is where I disagree - assuming the game is a good enough game to be an "ESPORT." At the end of BW we were still seeing innovation and new talent rising or old talent reemerging - there was, at no point during the 10+ year history of BW, a plateau.
an individual strategy game sees both talent and strategic evolution. so we can say for instance a player like nada was a top talent, but his strats were not as advanced. nada didn't fall out of the top for a long long time, and eventually there will be nada type guys in any sport.
nada is still pretty terrifyingly good even if you time machine him to 2010 bw. the same cannot be said for earlier pros who were just as dominant, but were just dominant because the scene was small.
obviously though, new talent will be generated, but at the beginning of a scene there's a progressively larger and larger talent pool that is getting into the game, and you do reach a more gentle rising slope of talent level as time goes on.
but yea, if there is another faker type guy rising in the korean ladder scene, then i wouldn't be saying "faker will stay on top for a while" with as much confidence. but atm there's no guy like that. maybe in a few months we'll see the next faker making his debut, but a guy like that will have a big reputation already, so it's not a surprise for people who follow the scene.
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On September 17 2013 06:04 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:58 Itsmedudeman wrote:On September 17 2013 05:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On September 17 2013 05:50 oneofthem wrote:
in the start of brood war, or any other game, new talent and strats were coming up constantly, so it'd be silly to expect a top player to stay on top.
but when you have a situation where the top ladder player is still the top player, and he's pretty much as talented as players can be, then that guy is pretty legit. at this point vague generalities like 'no player can stay on top forever' will have to answer to the question of what source of talent is coming to dwarf him. i don't see any the rest of korea like i don't understand how you guys are so set on "faker will be god forever" when we literally said the same thing about ambition and dade. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can deny and point out supposed differences all you want, and i will call bullshit - it's the exact same pattern, but every time, we say "NO, you don't get it, THIS time will be different" sure faker may reign for a bit, but no one will reign forever is not a vague generality, it's a universal truth Yeah, but faker doesn't have to play against himself ?
And steal his own mojo
Basically faker is shang shung from mortal kombat
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EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Fionn/feedtime.png)
