[IEM] Kiev Discussion - Page 215

From complete troll picks in game 1 to the clutch game 2 and lolwtfpwn Akali in game 3. Irelia OP? You wish.

I feel like TSM choked a lot and got extremely lucky g2. If M5 wasn't retarded and didn't get caught g2 I think the result could have been VERY different.

The thing is, TSM right now relies way too much on their carries, mostly Regi and Chaox. Both Regi and Chaox played against laners who are just as good as them, if not sometimes even better. TRM choked super hard top lane, he was just doing things that made no sense. I feel like every time Shyvana left he should've been doing something. He didn't push hard enough when she was gone, and by the time he realized she was gone he couldn't do anything to stop her counterjungling.

I agree with Dyrus that they 100% should've banned Shyvana. M5 picked her every game; obviously they like using her and abusing her potential for quick creep clears. I dunno what was up with the Galio ban; I suppose TSM thought it was the reason they won g2 (when in reality it was just because M5 fucked up on FB)

Regi taking the early blues was rather detrimental to TOO's jungle, too. It sets him back a lot at level 1 and it puts a ton of pressure on Regi to get those kills mid lane. Mid lane isn't everything, although it is super influential on the game.

I also feel like TSM wasn't timing their buffs, or at least was out of position compared to M5 whenever their buffs were about to come up. I think that's a problem with coordination; M5 just seemed a lot more coordinated. Between mid+top+jungle, those three would just always go for steals on blue buff and red buff depending on which side of the map they spawned. Once one buff is stolen, it becomes very difficult to coordinate when to go for the next one, because the opponent has timing on the buffs and you do not.

Since Regi was against a player who could handle him and not let him snowball, and Chaox was getting dominated bot lane, it came down to jungle+top. TOO was gimped by Regi taking early buffs and TRM wasn't on the ball enough so he lost top lane because Shyvana outfarmed him. Likewise, TOO was gimped even harder by the fact that Shyvana kept stealing his shit.

So, overall, I think the game for TSM basically revolved around whether Regi was able to carry or not. Xpecial played amazingly bot lane, but in terms of overall influence over the game, support has little at the stage of the game that M5 was taking huge advantages.

It's fun to watch tryndamere carry in pro games too XD game one of 3rd place matches. I'm not complaining, jarman was just as stronk :p

Darien is stealing farm from the jungle and he's stealing bank. He loses maybe 3 minions of gold and experience by doing it, but takes gold from the enemy team, and especially from the enemy jungler. When you steal gold, it's like you gain gold, and the enemy loses gold so it's worth twice as much. The enemy jungler is probably the most influential player in the laning phase, so if they have to spend more time farming to gain levels and items, that's less time ganking.

I really liked the counter jungling from both Darien and M5's jungler. Dominus?

TSM won game 2, straight up. They win that game without the first kills, though they helped. TRM in game 2 didn't allow the aggressive counter jungling by being such a presence in lane with tryndamere and mordekaiser had no answer for Regi's aggressive cass play. Every time morde went in, he was punished either with a lot of damage taken or a death. TSM didn't lose by gameplay, they lost by decisions. The counter jungling strategy is all M5 did all tournament, granted they were able to do that because strong lane play, but it's also due to poor decisions by enemy team. M5 adapted after their loss and TSM didn't respond accordingly. TSM should have known they were going to counter jungle, even their picks strongly indicated so, but oddone doesn't clear his main jungle and tries ganking leaving it open to counter jungling and TRM got outplayed plain and simply. On top of that, Regi chose karthus. Regi choosing karthus means mordekaiser pushes without being punished and is a much stronger presence when it comes to the fights for jungle with skarner and shyvana. It also means his push in lane is way slower so morde doesn't miss as much cs when going into enemy jungle. Morde skarner shyvana vs irelia lee sin karthus is pretty brutal even before the counter jungling and kills. That combined with TRM contently farming at tower at the start and oddone falling behind from no ganks and getting his jungle stolen, it really was just a lack of adaptation after showing such great play in game 2. I'm not even sure if they realized that they essentially won game 2 before the game even started and lost game 3 before it even started.

In summary, M5 was smarter. They addressed the biggest factor in stopping their strategy, Regi, and banned the champions that he could use to: a. punish in lane b. push c. be a stronger presence

I wish TSM had a coach. I was rooting for them, but after Regi's response to SV's comment on reddit and Regi and TRM's personality in general, I prefer rooting for other NA teams now. I still love theoddone and think TSM has the best/smartest bot lane though.