A question on ghost vs flash, could you provide a reason for picking ghost? To me ghost seems completely redundant (like, COMPLETELY) because the unit collision is covered by his passive, and the speed boost is covered by both his e and shurelia's. Flash, on the other hand, always has it's uses. You can use it over walls to escape etc etc like normal, but you can also use it offensively during ganks to position for a good e knockback. I don't know, to me it just seems flash has way more uses on heca, whereas every single aspect of ghost is already covered for in his abilities and even more with shurelia's o.O

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

September 18 2012 12:59 GMT

#82

I've been running Flash exclusively for a while, I much prefer my "get out of shit situation free" card. Ghost is somewhat useful if the enemy wards really hard (Ghost + E + maybe Shurelia = lolwards), or if they have MS boosts of their own for stronger sticking power, but I think the usefulness of Flash far outweighs Ghost.

Tooplark

United States3977 Posts

September 18 2012 15:17 GMT

#83

Flash is def better on Hecarim. While it's easy to go "oh hey more speed = more damage", it's hardly significant enough to make up for the escaping and initiating power of Flash. Flashing to the other side of someone for the E knockback can make or break a gank.

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

September 18 2012 15:44 GMT

#84

On September 18 2012 18:16 Solaris.playgu wrote:
A question on ghost vs flash, could you provide a reason for picking ghost? To me ghost seems completely redundant (like, COMPLETELY) because the unit collision is covered by his passive, and the speed boost is covered by both his e and shurelia's. Flash, on the other hand, always has it's uses. You can use it over walls to escape etc etc like normal, but you can also use it offensively during ganks to position for a good e knockback. I don't know, to me it just seems flash has way more uses on heca, whereas every single aspect of ghost is already covered for in his abilities and even more with shurelia's o.O

I like Ghost for a number of reasons.

Ghost is better for ganking. The additional movement speed covers at least twice the distance of Flash over its duration, sets you up for an ult + E combo, and even gives a little extra AD.
Ghost is better for counter-ganking. Being able to rush to lane that's being ganked by chaining Ghost with E is incredibly powerful.
Ghost has a shorter cooldown. The 40-55 seconds add up during the early game.
Ghost is better late-game. Hecarim's big problem late game is that you Shurelya's -> Ult -> E to start most teamfights, leaving you without any gap closing tools unless you got fed and were able to build Ghostblade. Ghost fills that gap perfectly, giving you the sticking power you need to be relevant.

That's not to say taking Flash is a bad decision, but the only time I find myself thinking, "Gee, I wish I'd taken Flash" is when my team is already losing and I can't flash -> steal dragon/baron -> ult to safety. I can't think of any ganks where Flash would have been more useful than Ghost.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

September 18 2012 15:48 GMT

#85

the shorter CD is the biggest reason i get ghost, really helps a lot

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

September 18 2012 15:48 GMT

#86

Oh yeah, I asked in GD a week or so ago, but has anyone laned Hecarim at all? Obvious issue is pushing the lane really hard, but he's difficult to gank (2 enemies + W + Q spam is good healing and then E to gtfo), has nice sustain, and can roam to mid or dragon really hard with E and ult.

Probably sub-optimal, but something to think about?

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

September 18 2012 15:49 GMT

#87

chauster says hecarim is better top than in jungle

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

September 18 2012 15:50 GMT

#88

On September 19 2012 00:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
chauster says hecarim is better top than in jungle

It seems decent. You duel pretty decently and can disengage well (two strong points for a top laner), and can farm and push well, then with TF and GA he's pretty monstrous.

mockturtle

United States220 Posts

September 22 2012 00:07 GMT

#89

I just got hecarim and have been playing him. Oddly enough, I was motivated to do so after playing a ranked game where someone called top and instalocked hecarim and was like "yes im going top, trust me". The rest of the team bitched at him but he carried the game hard, ganking mid and counter jungling like crazy.

I mostly jungle in general but I've found him to be underwhelming after a few games. Early his clear/sustain and his ganks seem bleh, and I feel like he wants too much money to buy too many wards/oracles. I feel like there are junglers who are just better all around (specifically for me i feel like amumu or nautilus would be better choices in either direction)

Taking him top though, was awesome! He has good sustain and so much utility late game that you just need to hang around and not get killed, which isn't that hard with his passive, W, and E. My experience could be heavily warped from reality (since my elo is ~1200 and I'm relatively new at lol), but I'd still love to hear more detailed suggestions and thoughts from better players. For the time being I've settled on ninja/merc depending, philo stone, frozen heart, and spirit visage as my first 4 items. Sheen/Trinity seems strong on him, but until I'm much better at managing him in lane it's probably best for me to err on the side of tanky

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

September 22 2012 00:38 GMT

#90

I didn't know there was a hec thread. I like the guide though, though I dislike the gp10s portion of it that's personal preference and not something that's almost definitely bad.

Haasts

New Zealand4445 Posts

November 06 2012 09:10 GMT

#91

Copypasta from GD since I was trawling for clippity-clop content which hadn't made it to this thread:

On October 25 2012 13:49 HazMat wrote:
God Hecarim is op in solo queue. I haven't had a game where I haven't dominated. His Q is trash, his W is trash, his E is only good with shurelyas or ghost or ult but somehow he's so good. I think it's the wave clear + gank potential that you can abuse if you play an aggressive tax style.

On November 01 2012 08:12 HazMat wrote:

Show nested quote +

My match history is secret kthnx.
iuno I build Hecarim different from anyone.

Boots 1
Philo
Brutalizer
Shurelyas
Boots 5 or Mercs
Sunfire Cape or FH (trying Sunfire because with FH I waste 5% cdr....FH still better if no one no your team is getting it)
Some MR item

9/21/0, 25apen runes.
Probably not smart to follow it but works for me. I really dislike the Triforce build.

I didn't catch the Dignitas MLG games where IWD played Hecarim - anyone know his runes/masteries/build, etc?

Edit: Just caught a Hecarim on a featured game (marshed), where he built an early Spirit Visage for CDR/MR, as well as minor synergy w/Hec's W. Not entirely convinced it was a better buy than turning his Philo into a Reverie, etc.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

November 15 2012 11:24 GMT

#92

I play top hecarim and jungle hecarim with advice from a bunch of Japanese plat/diamonds, it goes like this:

MS/arp/armor/scaling MR
9/21/0 ignite/(ghost/flash) for lane
0/21/9 smite/ghost for jungle

The reason you take ghost always in jungle is because ghost + red buff is retarded

QW(E/Q)(E/Q)QR R>Q>W>E in jungle depending on when you're ganking

Q(E/W)(E/W)QQR R>Q>W>E in top depending on stuff like ganks/sustain/dives/all-in

Jungle build
boots + 3 pot
philo/hog
sheen
glacial shroud
diverge into FH/spirit visage/randuins/reverie/finish triforce if you're carrying but sheen is OP by itself
(make sure you tell your support to get aegis because you won't be carrying it because of FH)

Lane build
boots + 3 pot
tabi OR sheen OR glacial depending on lane
diverge into phage/SV/FH/bruta/whatever you need

Sunfire/Sheen/Torch is good on dominion if you play that too

w(oO)t

New Zealand40 Posts

November 15 2012 16:11 GMT

#93

^ That's pretty much exactly what I do too.

I choose either sheen or Bruta for damage, then hit the tankiness hard, unless I'm really snowballing in which case I grab the early tri force (tri force on heca before 20minutes is mad damage)

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

November 15 2012 18:26 GMT

#94

I think starting W lv1 makes you take less damage.

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

November 15 2012 18:38 GMT

#95

I start W level 1 if there's going to be a skirmish or if I anticipate a weak/non-existent leash. Otherwise Q.

chalice

United States1945 Posts

December 22 2012 04:56 GMT

#96

if you're going to lane gank someone should you use E before or after you ult?

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

December 22 2012 04:58 GMT

#97

should try to ult in then e someone back but sometimes you have to initiate with e

chalice

United States1945 Posts

December 22 2012 05:01 GMT

#98

yeah i was wondering if there was any interaction between ult and autoattacks so you could stilll knockback activating e before ult

Imperium11

United States279 Posts

December 22 2012 05:45 GMT

#99

I like E -> ult -> auto them back towards team/away from tower, etc. That way you get the extra damage on E from covering the distance you travel with your ult. Extra damage just for pressing E before R? Sure, why not!

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

December 22 2012 06:58 GMT

#100

yea E gains damage as you charge it up so try to do that