EPT[Champion] Hecarim - Page 4
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LeeDawg
United States1306 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
boots of swiftness 2X PD Trifource and another 2X PD if you can afford it User was warned for this post | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On August 09 2012 07:51 101toss wrote: Hi guys I have best Horse build boots of swiftness 2X PD Trifource and another 2X PD if you can afford it ur not original there's already a guide bro http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=32041 | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On August 09 2012 07:54 Perplex wrote: ur not original there's already a guide bro http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=32041 he buys the wrong boots, swift boots give you flat bonus ad, while you lose ad from mobos | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On August 09 2012 07:39 LeeDawg wrote: just played hec for the first time as he's free this week and I thought he was pretty cool. question though: how viable is top hec? he's like 4x better as an unkillable, get-all-the-farm top-laner than he is as a jungler imo the secret is atmas | ||
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Highwayman
United States181 Posts
I've been doing the standard philo, boots, hog. After that I usually get mercs right away, chain vest first into glacial shroud, and immediately after I've been going with phage to start the tri force for the added tankiness because one thing you definitely realize is that he's not as tanky as you'd think when you're getting used to him. With Skarner I feel I can stay in the middle of everything more often but with Hecarim I find that if I jump in with R a lot of times I have to jump out pretty quickly. So as others have stated he's better in a cleanup role where you R over the top of everyone after the fight has already broken out. With earlier ganks they're definitely going to fail until you get used to the fact that you have to get a good E on them pushing them away from their retreat path. Definitely requires your opponent getting caught out further than for a lot of junglers. But once you get used to it, you hit 6, get a good E push on them, then when they recover and start to pull away you R on top of them for the fear and the cleanup and it's a guaranteed kill almost every time like a Skarner ult. So good. Of course usually when they get away the fear procs into the direction they were running already.  Another thing I like about him is that I don't have to complete my philo into a shurelya's. Riding the double gp 10s + his really fast clear speeds + really solid ganks, I'm highest on the team in gold pretty often. | ||
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Mystogun
United States392 Posts
On August 09 2012 03:46 barbsq wrote: I don't think it's really fair to call ppl out on wanting builds. When you're starting out with a champion, it's really good to have a basic core + follow-through in mind that has been tried and tested by other people. Sure, once you get a grasp of the champion you should def have the flexibility to figure out what you want on the fly, but your first few games are just going to be figuring out how to get the reins on your champion; having a preset buildpath really helps out in terms of just getting out the first steps. What is the reasoning behind the 3 ASPD reds over going full arpen? | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On September 02 2012 17:53 zulu_nation8 wrote: does anyone else realize how ridiculously broken this champion is? gonna bust him out in go4lol tomorrow can you provide some vods afterwards or a very explicitly detailed analysis of how you're using him? because as i (and most of the other jungle-only guys here) have stated time and time again, i just don't think he's as strong as skarner, or even in the top tier of junglers, let alone broken. i'd love to see exactly what you're doing differently than i am. unless you're talking about top lane, in which case i do agree, as he's got infinite sustain and is impossible to gank. but i know you're a jungle main and i just don't see what you could be doing that makes him better than skarner, shyvana, mundo, udyr, etc. just a reiteration of why i think skarner is much better >hecarim's damage, tankiness and CC are on different skills whereas skarner can level up 2 skills and get everything done. >hecarim has the worst passive in the game, skarner has the best passive in the game. >hecarim's ult particle is extremely slow, easy to dodge, and inconsequential when it does hit. >hecarim is a really poor duelist because of his inability to stick to anyone early-game >hecarim is a really poor carry due to his inability to stick to anyone late-game i have seen hecarims do well, and i've done well enough times to know that he's a viable champion. but i just don't see him as top tier, or see any reason why he should crack my top 3 most played along with shyv, skarner, ww, udyr. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
no reasoning behind it tho. Then again, this is from the guy who can't last hit with yorick, so..... | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On September 02 2012 23:09 gtrsrs wrote: can you provide some vods afterwards or a very explicitly detailed analysis of how you're using him? because as i (and most of the other jungle-only guys here) have stated time and time again, i just don't think he's as strong as skarner, or even in the top tier of junglers, let alone broken. i'd love to see exactly what you're doing differently than i am. unless you're talking about top lane, in which case i do agree, as he's got infinite sustain and is impossible to gank. but i know you're a jungle main and i just don't see what you could be doing that makes him better than skarner, shyvana, mundo, udyr, etc. just a reiteration of why i think skarner is much better >hecarim's damage, tankiness and CC are on different skills whereas skarner can level up 2 skills and get everything done. >hecarim has the worst passive in the game, skarner has the best passive in the game. >hecarim's ult particle is extremely slow, easy to dodge, and inconsequential when it does hit. >hecarim is a really poor duelist because of his inability to stick to anyone early-game >hecarim is a really poor carry due to his inability to stick to anyone late-game i have seen hecarims do well, and i've done well enough times to know that he's a viable champion. but i just don't see him as top tier, or see any reason why he should crack my top 3 most played along with shyv, skarner, ww, udyr. As a rebuttal: 1. Irrelevant. Hecarim puts one point in his CC and is done. At the end of the day Skarner has one nigh-useless ability unless you're trolling with an AP build, while Hecarim doesn't. 2. Ignoring unit collision is strong, hyperbole is not a point. 3. Hecarim's ultimate, when landed properly, is far from inconsequential. Between the fear effect and his E an opponent can be displaced by as much as a Blitz grab. 4. Hecarim isn't a bad duelist, he has two incredibly strong tools for closing distance early-game, and his primary damage abilities don't require him to stop to be used. Sticking to targets isn't that hard. 5. Hecarim can stick to people late game better than Skarner, simply by virtue of having an easier time getting to them in the first place. I'm not saying Hecarim is better than Skarner or vice versa, but at the end of the day the problem is less that Hecarim is bad and more that you and others have the "Skarner 2.0" label he briefly received stuck in your heads. He is not Skarner, you do not play him like Skarner, and trying to compare him 1 to 1 with Skarner is ultimately an exercise in futility. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
It kind of boggles my mind someone would say he can't stick to people late game though. Huh? He's faster than Skarner with his e, and the enemy team can't take that from you. I can't count the number of times I've chased a straggler on the enemy team down across multiple screens and killed them. Phage procs are generally more than enough given how fast he is. Hecarim controls space extremely well. He excels in 5v5 teamfights, because his power largely scales off the health restored from his w. If the game is relatlvely even, he's an excellent siege breaker, because if the enemy team makes the smallest positioning error, you just leap into them and if your team follows up properly, they're all probably going to die. What does Skarner to try to break a siege? Spam his e and pray the enemy makes an unbelievably stupid positioning error. Hecarim can force errors. Most of my Hecarim wins come down to the enemy team sieging a turret (usually with an advantage), eating a Hecarim ult and then getting absolutely destroyed by the followup. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On September 03 2012 17:17 zulu_nation8 wrote: Being a strong duelist is not a requirement for a good jungler. Junglers have strengths and weaknesses, you play them to their strengths, and Hecarim's strengths are ridiculous. Hecarim is a better jungler than Skarner in almost every situation. I really don't think it's close at all. Hecarim has a very strong chance of being consistently picked in tourney play in the near future, while Skarner has no chance. There are many reasons to this but I will not discuss further unless scip wants to know. i just feel like that's something that pro teams would have picked up on if it was true. i've seen hecarim only once in a high level tourney game, run by saintvicious right after he joined curse; i'm nearly positive that pick was him trying to show that he could beat hotshot even with a subpar jungler (believe hotshot had mundo). turns out, it didn't pay off. saint was 3-1-somehighnumberofassists, and was the last to die in every teamfight. but he also did 0 damage and in a competitive setting where everyone is on high alert for initiates, his ult rarely hit more than one person and i only saw him get an ult-E combo off once one a target that didn't matter. to be fair, elementz was a lot worse back then, so i will accept that there might have been other factors leading to the loss. but in terms of me eagerly watching saint's stream for how a "pro" might play hec differently, i was disappointed. he basically followed monte's exact build/style, and had about as much success as you'd think hec would, which is to say, not as much as shyvana would have. so if there's something that you know, that SV doesn't, that no other pro team knows, i'm VERY EAGER to hear it. i spent real cash dollas on a skin for hecarim and i enjoy playing him a ton. do you gank often? do you have a special route? do you counterjungle? is he strong against certain picks? is he strong in certain comps? what is your build? i've tried many many things on hecarim and until i see the magic build that i haven't tried yet, i'm prone to think he's just simply not as good as other junglers and i still maintain my stance that his top lane is very strong | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On September 03 2012 17:30 gtrsrs wrote: i just feel like that's something that pro teams would have picked up on if it was true. i've seen hecarim only once in a high level tourney game, run by saintvicious right after he joined curse; i'm nearly positive that pick was him trying to show that he could beat hotshot even with a subpar jungler (believe hotshot had mundo). turns out, it didn't pay off. saint was 3-1-somehighnumberofassists, and was the last to die in every teamfight. but he also did 0 damage and in a competitive setting where everyone is on high alert for initiates, his ult rarely hit more than one person and i only saw him get an ult-E combo off once one a target that didn't matter. to be fair, elementz was a lot worse back then, so i will accept that there might have been other factors leading to the loss. but in terms of me eagerly watching saint's stream for how a "pro" might play hec differently, i was disappointed. he basically followed monte's exact build/style, and had about as much success as you'd think hec would, which is to say, not as much as shyvana would have. so if there's something that you know, that SV doesn't, that no other pro team knows, i'm VERY EAGER to hear it. i spent real cash dollas on a skin for hecarim and i enjoy playing him a ton. do you gank often? do you have a special route? do you counterjungle? is he strong against certain picks? is he strong in certain comps? what is your build? i've tried many many things on hecarim and until i see the magic build that i haven't tried yet, i'm prone to think he's just simply not as good as other junglers and i still maintain my stance that his top lane is very strong The first pro I saw play Hecarim was TheOddOne, and he decided to max E first. He quickly concluded Hecarim sucked. Just because they're pro doesn't mean they know what the hell they're doing when they play a new jungler for the first time. I don't build HoG anymore on pretty much any of the "double gp10" junglers. You're supposed to be dominating the early game, HoG doesn't help you do that anymore than a plain Ruby Crystal. I either go Kindlegem or Aegis instead. My build is usually Philo -> Aegis -> Brutalizer (if fed) / Glacial (if not or if I'm the only tank) -> Shurelya's. I've also had success with Sheen before Glacial/Shurelya's. Ghostblade is ridiculously good on Hecarim, as are resistance items. I gank often, but unless I know there's no ward I either lane gank or go the long way around. If you know they have flash and have good reflexes avoid landing your E because good players will flash so that you push them further away. Bait it and then chase them down. I also like ghost more than flash on Hecarim, though that choice means you can't steal Dragon/Baron easily. | ||
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