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On May 05 2012 00:50 phyvo wrote:
Consider that Kog Maw has a much stronger on hit steroid and still builds 100% full AD. Teemo is a troll, that's why he gets away with it.
Not a good comparison at all. Kog's range is 500 by default, and the longest in the game at max level BAB. He also gets to lane bottom with a support, which affords him other 'safeties' that Kayle must do without. Kog can also build 100% AP, essentially ignoring his steroid; pretty silly to make any judgements between the two.
I'm not saying that means Kayle should or should not build carry or on-hit, but a comparison to Kog does nothing, especially a comparison that takes no consideration for the rest of the champion kits as a whole.
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Perhaps I made it seem like I covered every base with my statement and that AD is the only possible build, but in the context of the discussion my statement is pretty sound. You bringing up AP Kog at all confuses me terribly because I don't know WTF it has to do with onhit VS AD.
The poster I replied to was implying that he did more damage with on hit items compared to AD items. This is pretty much impossible. As I said, even on Kog Maw you prefer AD for DPS, despite his stronger steroid. Therefore, if Kog Maw (who has the stronger damage steroid) prefers AD builds for DPS, Kayle should too, because the main thing onhit builds lack is more damage per hit. Q.E.D.
This does not take into account any sort of tanky DPS build you might have in mind (which can't possibly be all on hit items since they leave you really squishy past Wit's End), nor does it have anything to do with any other aspect of the champions' kits or roles or whether AD is the only good build possible. What it does say is that if you want to do lots of damage you build AD, not on-hit items. That's all.
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kayle shits on everyone omg
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The problem with full ad kayle is that you only do damage for 10 seconds (in an ideal world) and then do nothing for 6 seconds. You need at least some cdr to mitigate that beyond what you get from runes/masteries. I also don't feel like kayle really belongs in top lane - maybe I'm biased towards my usual toplaners but I think that with ganks as strong as hers it's kinda a shame not to jungle her instead.
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On May 06 2012 19:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
kayle shits on everyone omg
Except most assassin type champs and fags like teemo and yorick. She's mainly just good vs bruisers cause she can kite them really hard, similar to vayne and corki top lane.
On May 06 2012 19:16 greggy wrote:
The problem with full ad kayle is that you only do damage for 10 seconds (in an ideal world) and then do nothing for 6 seconds. You need at least some cdr to mitigate that beyond what you get from runes/masteries. I also don't feel like kayle really belongs in top lane - maybe I'm biased towards my usual toplaners but I think that with ganks as strong as hers it's kinda a shame not to jungle her instead.
wut
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dont see how he can lose to yorick or teemo
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On May 06 2012 19:46 zulu_nation8 wrote:
dont see how he can lose to yorick or teemo
kayle's a chick
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On May 06 2012 19:59 SnetteL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 19:46 zulu_nation8 wrote:
dont see how he can lose to yorick or teemo kayle's a chick
Everyone who has never played Kayle/not seen her unmasked skins/doesn't use ingame voices makes this mistake.
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On May 06 2012 20:03 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 19:59 SnetteL wrote:On May 06 2012 19:46 zulu_nation8 wrote:
dont see how he can lose to yorick or teemo kayle's a chick Everyone who has never played Kayle/not seen her unmasked skins/doesn't use ingame voices makes this mistake.
Half the people who do play kayle, seen the unmasked skins and use the ingame voice still make this mistake.
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Kayle shits on teemo and yorick pretty hatd. Neithet mach her damage
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On May 06 2012 19:16 greggy wrote:
The problem with full ad kayle is that you only do damage for 10 seconds (in an ideal world) and then do nothing for 6 seconds. You need at least some cdr to mitigate that beyond what you get from runes/masteries. I also don't feel like kayle really belongs in top lane - maybe I'm biased towards my usual toplaners but I think that with ganks as strong as hers it's kinda a shame not to jungle her instead.
She scales incredibly well with farm. Her ganks aren't that amazing just pretty good. And ten seconds is plenty of time not to mention you are still able to so damage with e off believe it or not
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Isn't the idea behind cleaver to abuse your shredding power and make nobody have any armor? It's not about YOUR damage, it's about your carry's damage + your own + maybe your jungler. Also you have more freedom to build tanky items if needed after cleaver compared to IE, because you have a balance of damage stats bundled up into a smaller package. You aren't going balls out carry with IE PD being your first 8k gold anyway.
I guess think of cleaver as an aura item, and kayle is a good carrier for it.
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On May 06 2012 19:16 greggy wrote:
The problem with full ad kayle is that you only do damage for 10 seconds (in an ideal world) and then do nothing for 6 seconds. You need at least some cdr to mitigate that beyond what you get from runes/masteries. I also don't feel like kayle really belongs in top lane - maybe I'm biased towards my usual toplaners but I think that with ganks as strong as hers it's kinda a shame not to jungle her instead.
I think I agree with you. Ever since I found out kayle's main target doesn't take %of AD magic damage, I just don't know if I should play her top anymore. Before this she was my goto top.
She pushes lane hard.
Kayle is weakest as her E is about to expire. No one seems to know this
I know 60 damage is a lot but it’s not that great
She can’t always be ranged
Her escapes from people with jump stuns isn’t great as far as AD carries go
She has decent AoE damage but being able to use it is hard except in super late game teamfights where everyone is 5v5
She has an ult that is still useful even if she's doing poorly in a specific game (ult the fed tryn)
She can help against an ally's getting caught
Her slow lets her disengage
On Black Cleaver. I've never done the damage calculations on cleaver. But again, I'm doubtful of how effectively my allies will be able to use it by targeting the same enemies
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I've always gotten Malady/bloodrazer on Kayle instead of Cleaver or AD ect. But i jungle with her, so a cheap item + an item that builds from madreds is a really good combination for her.
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On May 24 2012 10:01 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 19:16 greggy wrote:
The problem with full ad kayle is that you only do damage for 10 seconds (in an ideal world) and then do nothing for 6 seconds. You need at least some cdr to mitigate that beyond what you get from runes/masteries. I also don't feel like kayle really belongs in top lane - maybe I'm biased towards my usual toplaners but I think that with ganks as strong as hers it's kinda a shame not to jungle her instead. I think I agree with you. Ever since I found out kayle's main target doesn't take %of AD magic damage, I just don't know if I should play her top anymore. Before this she was my goto top. She pushes lane hard. Kayle is weakest as her E is about to expire. No one seems to know this I know 60 damage is a lot but it’s not that great She can’t always be ranged Her escapes from people with jump stuns isn’t great as far as AD carries go She has decent AoE damage but being able to use it is hard except in super late game teamfights where everyone is 5v5 She has an ult that is still useful even if she's doing poorly in a specific game (ult the fed tryn) She can help against an ally's getting caught Her slow lets her disengage On Black Cleaver. I've never done the damage calculations on cleaver. But again, I'm doubtful of how effectively my allies will be able to use it by targeting the same enemies
60 Damage is not that great? How much of a steroid do you want... Not to mention the extra % you get from Q
Her not always being ranged is not that bad. Makes people underestimate her when you are meleeing them, and she is ranged for long enough.
Ah she isn't your teams true AD Carry so if the enemy team is jumping on you, your other AD carry is fucking them up.
Also MBR/Malady Kayle is awful... If your going on hit go Wriggles/Wits/Phage/BC in some order
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Again, as a jungler, malady/MBR fits extremely well into the build for minimal effort and cost, which is the reason for it.
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As a jungler, Wriggles, Wits, Phage and BC make much more sense for minimal effort and cost which is the reason for it, not to mention you will be more tanky and do more damage so i have no idea why you would want to do Malady/MBR
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Because comparing 4625 in expenses is equivalent to 6930. (taking off the 1k for the implied madred razer buy in both builds) especially when that 2300 difference can buy a wits end or a phage and almost a giants belt.
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If I want the enemy team to win I build malady/MBR, so it does have its uses, although a somewhat small niche since I do enjoy my win of the day.
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You don;t understand what I meant, you have those 4 items do choose from and can build 3 of them in place of Malady/MBR and any combination of the 3 will have you doing more damage and be tankier than malady/mbr. Not to mention you say "minimal effort and cost" which is completely untrue in both cases. Perhaps Malady is cheap but until you complete it you are sitting on crap and with MBR you are spending a ton of money.
I wouldn't even build Wriggles on jungle Kayle that was an example. 2 Dorans -> Cleaver is much better for jungle Kayle imo. So while you go Razor -> Malady I go 2 dorans BF Sword and while you finish MBR I get Cleaver and Phage and have an extra 500g to start whatever item I want, while doing more damage, while being tankier, while having better ganks and having just as fast of a clear speed.
Whats the advantage on Malady/MBR?
This is assuming jungle Kayle which I really dislike as she performs much better top.
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EPT
