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it's amazing XD. I mean, it's ok as a jungle item in that it keeps you topped off (which is really necessary given how squishy kayle is- you want to be able to get stunned and not get instagibbed before you can ult-troll when the stun wears off), and the smite CDR is not insignificant if you play like I do, which is to power around the jungle using your heal and clear the shit out of all the things. It lets you invest more in offense and not take those defensive runes which don't really help you during ganks or late game teamfights.
then, once you get a couple more items (I almost always go rageblade second and then either lichbane or nashors) that spellvamp becomes incredible in fights. You stay alive way longer than you should and can really mess with people's heads, going down to like 100 health and then smiting a nearby creep, Q and W-ing to get back like 500 health in a spike- more if you have rageblade triggered. Even just the slighter, more general vamp from autoing is really good at fooling people.
All this and Kayle scales with AP far better than AD these days. SotEL is good, but I really think SotSW is the far better choice on kayle, at least if you're planning on playing her farm heavy and then aim to burn squishies down quick in teamfights.
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So I had an epiphany. Maxing E vs champs that can dodge your Q is definitely the way to go. Makes the Fizz lane a lot easier at least. Not sure if I'd max it over Q against a Zed though.
But ya, vs Fizz you can just shove and force him to decide whether or not to burn his E on clearing the wave or saving it for dodging Q and missing cs to tower.
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On November 05 2013 14:53 Magus wrote:
So I had an epiphany. Maxing E vs champs that can dodge your Q is definitely the way to go. Makes the Fizz lane a lot easier at least. Not sure if I'd max it over Q against a Zed though.
But ya, vs Fizz you can just shove and force him to decide whether or not to burn his E on clearing the wave or saving it for dodging Q and missing cs to tower.
Was thinking about this. You still need to get 5 autos for every Q if you want the single damage from E to be equal to the damage from Q. Often in the GP vs Shen matchup, I get close to Shen so if I bait out his shield I can shoot him later, and if he doesn't shield, he won't be able to react in time to my Q. Similarly, if you're against Fizz, you can wait for fizz to use his E before using Q if that does more damage.
It really depends on the number of times you get to Q and E.
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I would still max Q vs a fizz, because now he has to make a choice between dodging Q, farming and gapclosing you. I'd like to do the math some day but my feeling is that the extra damage on E procs is not worth maxing it over Q. Maybe going 2 pts early in E could help with shoving though as this would be around your stinger/codex timing.
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Besides fizz there are several matchups where you don't want to throw your Q on every cooldown because people need the slow off cooldown to trade. People still tend to max Q.
Ughh was just playing a Kayle vs Nid matchup. The matchup didn't matter much. But for the first time ever I got a lichbane first and I loved it. Lichbane has a .75 ratio. I know a lot of people max Q on Kayle in this thread because even before its slow scaled it would require 5 autos before E was better than Q. Well lichbane is the same thing. 5 autos to break even with Nash. Not once did I run out of E's attack range buff during a fight.
I got a deathfire grasp next item. It was awesome too. Finally I got a nashor's but it didn't feel useful. Go figure.
Like that Nash could have been a gunblade or a void staff. Maybe with those I could kill Vayne faster.
Anyways we lost because Renekton Janna and I zoned in on trying to kill Nidalee instead of taking mid turret and safely backing after Sivir got bot inhib. But the items helped.
Kayle straddles the line between burst damage and sustained damage. For once I tried leaning closer to the burst side and I liked it.
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What is the skill order on jungle kayle?
Max E or Q first?
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I would probably go something like:
E->Q->W->E-> Then max Q. The slow is just too good for ganking, and most of the time you rely on your laner to do the majority of damage anyway.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
there's a chance new skt support casper will play kayle support against a lower ranked team..
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kayle nerfed hard on Q though....
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
On February 13 2014 12:54 nosliw wrote:
kayle nerfed hard on Q though....
She got big buffs for support though, most notably heal for midgame (and bigger speed boost) as well as ult cost changed from 100 to 0 at level 6. It was difficult at best to actively participate in zoning/poking etc with having to blow mana to do damage past melee range, i'd imagine it not to be so difficult now around level 4-6. I don't know how otherwise good/terrible she is around pro level though
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The heal buff was minor, only the movespeed was anything at all really, 0.05 more AP scaling is puny.
Ult buff is ridiculous though.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Figured when you have a couple hundred AP it'll make a dent
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The Q nerf is not noticeable until lategame really. The base damage is still high enough to be completely ridiculous, and the movespeed on W is completely insane now. So easy to chase people.
You lose around 250 or so damage off of each Q (not counting resistances) when you hit 6 items because of the nerf. Good thing you do insane sustained damage and still have a massive burst with DFG and Lich Bane.
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250 is a lot of damage ...
I mean you mention the base damage on Q is ridiculous when it's 260 base.
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On February 16 2014 12:53 KissBlade wrote:
250 is a lot of damage ...
I mean you mention the base damage on Q is ridiculous when it's 260 base.
You're losing 250 off of 900 or so. So, ya, it sucks, but you're still bursting really hard. Plus the Lich Bane follow up burst hasn't been nerfed at all. You are still hitting like a truck.
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Yeah you kill people in 3 shots now instead of 2.
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What do people get on jungle Kayle as their gold generation item? I've generally been doing Spirit of the Elder Lizard. I tried Spirit of the Spectral Wraith and it felt okay, but I feel like the ramp up time is a wee bit longer. Not sure if I like that tradeoff.
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I always get spectral wraith as my jungling item, I guess Lantern could be a viable pick as well.
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Eh.... no, really just build wraith imo
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lol that nerf is nothing imo
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EPT
