I remember Curse used to do Kayle/Nunu back in the day, it's actually pretty underrated and cool.

Unfortunately, after Riot nerfs Nunu it's probably gonna suck.

AFKing

128 Posts

January 15 2013 08:32 GMT

#182

On January 09 2013 06:56 Ghost-z wrote:
I've been trying her using Gunblade + Rageblade instead of the usual IE + PD. So I did some number crunching.

Assuming only these 2 items and E is active:
IE+PD = 594 dps
GB+RB = 272 dps (no stacks)
GB+RB = 374 dps (full stacks)
GB+RB = 431 dps (full stacks & below 50% hp)

IE+PD clearly wins out in terms of raw dps. However, Kayle's Q will deal an extra 100 damage with GB+RB combo and the Gunblade active deals about 200 damage. GB+RB also grant 10-20% life steal and 20-30% spell vamp.

In most cases Kayle won't need the extra sustain because she can use her W to heal herself and if she gets bursted down quickly then the extra sustain is mute. Unless you are against a team of 4 armor stacking bruisers just stick to IE + PD if you want to do the most damage.

TL;DR
Infinity Edge + Phantom Dancer give more DPS than Gunblade + Rageblade.

Its also kind of cool to note that you can ult yourself if you drop low and vamp yourself back up to full hp faster than you would normally be able with the rageblade, which runs until 8 seconds after you stop combat, which means it'll still be running when you're at full hp.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

January 15 2013 08:45 GMT

#183

The reason DPS Kayle is strong is because you can't trade with her at all from level 2 on unless you're like Draven or something, even then I'm not so sure. She wins sustain and burst and her only real downside is that she has to activate e to farm and it autopushes, but it's not really any worse than Trist, though there is some downtime where you might be able to punish if they mess up (engage right when e is about to wear off).

Basically she's like Draven in that you have to all-in her whenever you decide to trade or you just lose completely.

Djin)ftw(

Germany3357 Posts

January 15 2013 09:17 GMT

#184

So is AP kayle viable regarding DPS too? Saw a game yesterday from wickd:
link
he didnt get any mr, but she pretty much destroyed him instantly, 1154 DMG or so with E, Q was also rough.

As far as my understanding goes: AD more DPS than AP, AP more utility (W, CDR on R)

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

January 15 2013 13:57 GMT

#185

AP a bit better for poke, too (Q hits harder, especially with Liandry)

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

January 15 2013 14:13 GMT

#186

Q is still not a great poking spell. Its range isn't too long but its better than nothing I suppose.

I still strongly believe AD kayle is far superior to AP or hybrid kayle but I can see why teams would want to run it. For one the AP cdr options are better and she can provide a lot of utility.

HughMyron

297 Posts

January 15 2013 21:40 GMT

#187

Also, does anybody know anything about Jungle Kayle in the professional scene? I vaguely remember one player (Moma?) who plays her in tournaments. If anybody knows more, can you point me to these players and some of their games?

nosliw

United States2716 Posts

January 16 2013 01:01 GMT

#188

so many ways to play her now. I guess no one has gone kayle support hahaha

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

January 16 2013 02:34 GMT

#189

On January 16 2013 10:01 nosliw wrote:
so many ways to play her now. I guess no one has gone kayle support hahaha

I've seen it happen recently. But I don't think it's that strong. And I'm not sure if it was just a High Elo match I mistook for a tourney.

When I've tried Kayle support I felt I offered less than other supports to my team.

DEN1ED

United States1087 Posts

January 16 2013 08:04 GMT

#190

Just destroyed a ranked game as mid kayle. Carried team really hard. Went Nashors + Liandrys into rageblade and some defense. Absolutely no idea on runes and masteries as a more AP focused kayle. Seems like you just build whatever and you do fuckton of dps.

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

January 16 2013 10:23 GMT

#191

I'm assuming just mpen reds AP quints mp5 or armor yellows AP or flat mr blues. Maybe AS blues or something but I doubt it

NpG)Explosive

France994 Posts

January 16 2013 15:17 GMT

#192

On January 16 2013 06:40 HughMyron wrote:
Also, does anybody know anything about Jungle Kayle in the professional scene? I vaguely remember one player (Moma?) who plays her in tournaments. If anybody knows more, can you point me to these players and some of their games?

I've seen Imsofresh playing Kayle jungle both in soloqueue and tournament games (including during the s3 qualifiers).
He runes 21/9/0 masteries and AS marks and quints. I have no idea what skill order he uses (I do E>W>Q, but I think it's up for debate). Core items are spirit stone, boots-> upgrade to greaves, one stinger item (I've seen both zephyr and nashor's tooth), spirit of the elder lizard.
If I remember correctly, in most of those tournament games Millenium were running jax top, wukong mid and MF bot. Wukong's Q + black cleaver + kayle's passive means the enemy team has no armor and wukong's isn't even afraid to go in because of kayle's ult.

+ Show Spoiler +

French commentary, game is from the IEM Sao Paulo qualifiers, sadly the game is a complete stomp

Another game with French commentary, with mid Kayle this time

AsianEcksDragon

United States1036 Posts

January 19 2013 00:48 GMT

#193

Nashor/Liandry Kayle is too strong right now. She has too much damage and utility with just 2 items.

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

January 19 2013 04:42 GMT

#194

If someone else wants to write a short guide to Kayle mid then I will incorporate it into the OT. My guide is about Kayle top which has fallen out of style and I do not play Kayle mid so I do not feel comfortable writing about it. I understand Nashors + Liandrys but I do not know why that is strong. Tbh sounds weak to me but everyones doing it FotM trolol. Gonna stick with my hipster AD Kayle when I play her. Which isnt often anymore.

Gravesong

United States96 Posts

January 19 2013 05:01 GMT

#195

MYM Mokatte used a jungle Kayle vs. Crs in IEM Katowice day 1 earlier today. Did anyone catch what runes/masteries he was using? He was building for Beserker's Greaves, Zephyr and then was turning his Spirit Stone into Spirit of the Elder Lizard. Doesn't seem like it would be that great for solo ranked but fun when playing with a team where you could coordinate with a bruiser(like Wukong in the game) who could take full advantage of your armor shred/ult.

GTR

51644 Posts

January 19 2013 08:31 GMT

#196

On January 16 2013 19:23 Bladeorade wrote:
I'm assuming just mpen reds AP quints mp5 or armor yellows AP or flat mr blues. Maybe AS blues or something but I doubt it

I've been running SSONG's Kayle recently (21/0/9);

Hybrid APen/Mpen Reds
Armor Yellows
MR Blues
AP Quints

I know Nashors/Liandry's is the bread and butter at the moment but what should you build after that?

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

January 20 2013 05:25 GMT

#197

I have to agree with Blade that I don't see all the fuss about AP Kayle.

I've personally been having a lot of troubles as Kayle though. Particularly against Jax. I don't die to him in lane, I just can't outtrade him, and when I do I feel like it's because I'm outplaying him... severely. Like he'll jump, I'll ult, and he'll dump all his burst and stun during my ult, and then walk away to take free hits, and that's the only way I can win the trade.
Or he'll sit by his minions, get slowed, and take free hits running away.

I'd like to try some things(not all at once) to combat this and they probably sound dumb:
furor boots for reliable chasing early on.
mallet for chasing later, and the health.
warmogs for the sustain once it's finished and the health before it's finished.
cata for the passive.
max w to survive tough lanes like Yorick.

I should also be using my ult better in trades, and also just sitting back in games where I just want to get AD items and carry with damage.

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

January 20 2013 17:17 GMT

#198

Kill Jax pre 6 or zone him from creeps completely. His leap is a long cooldown as is stun and he needs both to trade with you so abuse those cooldowns.

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

January 20 2013 17:39 GMT

#199

On January 21 2013 02:17 Bladeorade wrote:
Kill Jax pre 6 or zone him from creeps completely. His leap is a long cooldown as is stun and he needs both to trade with you so abuse those cooldowns.

I do zone him from creeps. I even harass under tower. This iteration of LoL is so rewarding to just sitting back and using passive gold and free health pots though.

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

January 21 2013 16:40 GMT

#200

So you should hit 6 before him just dive and kill him. Jax shouldn't win the lane before phage and by the time he can buy it you should be almost at an IE or have had your first item. Kayle wrecks Jax.