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On January 19 2013 17:31 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:23 Bladeorade wrote:
I'm assuming just mpen reds AP quints mp5 or armor yellows AP or flat mr blues. Maybe AS blues or something but I doubt it I've been running SSONG's Kayle recently (21/0/9); Hybrid APen/Mpen Reds Armor Yellows MR Blues AP Quints I know Nashors/Liandry's is the bread and butter at the moment but what should you build after that?
Void staff does a ton of damage and synergyz's completely amazingly well with sorc and the liandry's pen. after that a hat I guess and a ga or warmogs if your under pressure (seeing you have nashors boots liandry's void hat and have room for only one defensive item)
kayle farms so hard late game its not that unfesible to see you selling the boots for a ga/wamogs depending on what you didn't already have.
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United States23745 Posts
Jungle Kayle build order? Just played a game and stomped pretty hard. Didn't upgrade machete, went Sorc->Haunting Guise->Nashor's and was working towards a D-cap when the game ended. Ended up working pretty well, didn't know if anyone else had a better suggestion.
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madreds+stinger is incredible on her, it gives you incredibly fast and smooth clear if you can afford to keep blue for a couple of cycles. The madreds procs seem to even out her damage so you on average take out the big and small minions within one auto, so you save like 3-5 seconds per camp on cleanup.
If I get a good early gank and don't get invaded, I like to go for madreds+ spirit stone, it allows you to snowball so hard. Assuming you don't need to carry your lanes super hard, with both you clear the jungle stupid fast and have time to pressure lanes, even if you're not going to convert every gank, you can force so much control. The fact your clear is so stupid means you can constantly invade and smite steal small camps to snowball even harder and control the enemy jungle as well.
You basically farm and pressure, rather than going for conversions like a lot of the contemporary junglers. It's quite terrifying when your CS is 100 higher than both midlaners by 30 mins and you've got 8k gold worth of items when the enemy ADC is just finishing up their second big weapon.
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On January 29 2013 03:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Jungle Kayle build order? Just played a game and stomped pretty hard. Didn't upgrade machete, went Sorc->Haunting Guise->Nashor's and was working towards a D-cap when the game ended. Ended up working pretty well, didn't know if anyone else had a better suggestion.
I don't usually build AP in the jungle. I played a few Kayle jungle games last night and stomped with AD/onhit builds. Went Machete > zerks > SS > stinger > Elder Lizard stone > zephyr and felt really good every time. You pick up the same 20% CDR from items and the true damage from the elder lizard stone gets applied to everything hit by E. From there I usually build rageblade or BotRK.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 30 2013 01:35 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 03:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Jungle Kayle build order? Just played a game and stomped pretty hard. Didn't upgrade machete, went Sorc->Haunting Guise->Nashor's and was working towards a D-cap when the game ended. Ended up working pretty well, didn't know if anyone else had a better suggestion. I don't usually build AP in the jungle. I played a few Kayle jungle games last night and stomped with AD/onhit builds. Went Machete > zerks > SS > stinger > Elder Lizard stone > zephyr and felt really good every time. You pick up the same 20% CDR from items and the true damage from the elder lizard stone gets applied to everything hit by E. From there I usually build rageblade or BotRK.
Yeah, I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I like being able to nuke down people with my Q. Might give AD a shot though.
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On January 30 2013 01:41 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 01:35 Offhand wrote:On January 29 2013 03:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Jungle Kayle build order? Just played a game and stomped pretty hard. Didn't upgrade machete, went Sorc->Haunting Guise->Nashor's and was working towards a D-cap when the game ended. Ended up working pretty well, didn't know if anyone else had a better suggestion. I don't usually build AP in the jungle. I played a few Kayle jungle games last night and stomped with AD/onhit builds. Went Machete > zerks > SS > stinger > Elder Lizard stone > zephyr and felt really good every time. You pick up the same 20% CDR from items and the true damage from the elder lizard stone gets applied to everything hit by E. From there I usually build rageblade or BotRK. Yeah, I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I like being able to nuke down people with my Q. Might give AD a shot though.
Same here, I only play ad kayle in the jungle, with a build similar to what was suggested. I like picking zeke instead of argeblade/botrk.
Sorc+haunting guise bring a lot of damage to champions, but the spell pen is completly useless in the jungle.
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On January 30 2013 02:01 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 01:41 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 30 2013 01:35 Offhand wrote:On January 29 2013 03:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Jungle Kayle build order? Just played a game and stomped pretty hard. Didn't upgrade machete, went Sorc->Haunting Guise->Nashor's and was working towards a D-cap when the game ended. Ended up working pretty well, didn't know if anyone else had a better suggestion. I don't usually build AP in the jungle. I played a few Kayle jungle games last night and stomped with AD/onhit builds. Went Machete > zerks > SS > stinger > Elder Lizard stone > zephyr and felt really good every time. You pick up the same 20% CDR from items and the true damage from the elder lizard stone gets applied to everything hit by E. From there I usually build rageblade or BotRK. Yeah, I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I like being able to nuke down people with my Q. Might give AD a shot though. Same here, I only play ad kayle in the jungle, with a build similar to what was suggested. I like picking zeke instead of argeblade/botrk. Sorc+haunting guise bring a lot of damage to champions, but the spell pen is completly useless in the jungle.
Why Zekes? It gives you very little damage so you can't really take off with multiplicative scaling with it. And you should never be able to 1v1 someone with it, not because the stats are noncombat stats, but because it isn't cost efficient on just one person and because of multiplicative scaling.
Also 10% cdr isn't going to make or break a duel. Having Q up 1 second earlier is not as much as having 20% more attack speed and 20(guess?) more dps for 8 seconds. You're basically relegating yourself to a support with farm by buying a zekes first. Also lifesteal is good in the jungle since you hit stuff way more than in lane so I'm fine with that, and I guess lifesteal is good for duels.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 30 2013 02:01 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 01:41 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 30 2013 01:35 Offhand wrote:On January 29 2013 03:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Jungle Kayle build order? Just played a game and stomped pretty hard. Didn't upgrade machete, went Sorc->Haunting Guise->Nashor's and was working towards a D-cap when the game ended. Ended up working pretty well, didn't know if anyone else had a better suggestion. I don't usually build AP in the jungle. I played a few Kayle jungle games last night and stomped with AD/onhit builds. Went Machete > zerks > SS > stinger > Elder Lizard stone > zephyr and felt really good every time. You pick up the same 20% CDR from items and the true damage from the elder lizard stone gets applied to everything hit by E. From there I usually build rageblade or BotRK. Yeah, I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I like being able to nuke down people with my Q. Might give AD a shot though. Same here, I only play ad kayle in the jungle, with a build similar to what was suggested. I like picking zeke instead of argeblade/botrk. Sorc+haunting guise bring a lot of damage to champions, but the spell pen is completly useless in the jungle.
Sounds like a play style difference, because I'd much prefer to go into lanes and secure kills for my lane instead of just farming the jungle
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On January 30 2013 02:27 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 02:01 NpG)Explosive wrote:On January 30 2013 01:41 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 30 2013 01:35 Offhand wrote:On January 29 2013 03:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Jungle Kayle build order? Just played a game and stomped pretty hard. Didn't upgrade machete, went Sorc->Haunting Guise->Nashor's and was working towards a D-cap when the game ended. Ended up working pretty well, didn't know if anyone else had a better suggestion. I don't usually build AP in the jungle. I played a few Kayle jungle games last night and stomped with AD/onhit builds. Went Machete > zerks > SS > stinger > Elder Lizard stone > zephyr and felt really good every time. You pick up the same 20% CDR from items and the true damage from the elder lizard stone gets applied to everything hit by E. From there I usually build rageblade or BotRK. Yeah, I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I like being able to nuke down people with my Q. Might give AD a shot though. Same here, I only play ad kayle in the jungle, with a build similar to what was suggested. I like picking zeke instead of argeblade/botrk. Sorc+haunting guise bring a lot of damage to champions, but the spell pen is completly useless in the jungle. Why Zekes? It gives you very little damage so you can't really take off with multiplicative scaling with it. And you should never be able to 1v1 someone with it, not because the stats are noncombat stats, but because it isn't cost efficient on just one person and because of multiplicative scaling. Also 10% cdr isn't going to make or break a duel. Having Q up 1 second earlier is not as much as having 20% more attack speed and 20(guess?) more dps for 8 seconds. You're basically relegating yourself to a support with farm by buying a zekes first. Also lifesteal is good in the jungle since you hit stuff way more than in lane so I'm fine with that, and I guess lifesteal is good for duels.
I mentionned (not clearly though) I would get zeke after zephyr and spirit of the elder lizard. Laning phase is over by the time I manage to get all that, so I'm often with my team which mean I'm not the only one getting the aura. The extra 10% CDR brings my E to about 0.5 sec downtime so I can basically use it whenever I want.
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I still dislike cdr, but I do agree it can be useful when your E goes on CD.
I decided to try to graph out a Kayle DPS chart for the standard AP chart vs the standard AD chart. Last whisper instead of PD doesn't make much difference. What's obvious and matches my experience in real games is that AD overtakes AP from 26:30 onwards but its not factoring in splash damage which would favor the AP build. Or that AP has an easier time in laning phase with stronger Q's and more mana. But the use of Dorans blades allows AD Kayle to have an easier time last hitting with E off (not to push lane) and healing with autoattacks. Both skill orders favor E so neither one is lopsided towards more DPS.
http://lol.askmrrobot.com/tools/builder/kayle-vs-targetdummy/6146c23f-5001-4d5a-a5fd-ae57d44c7a37#r=Damage,t=TargetDummy,d=Dps
I haven't really looked too much into it but I highly doubt Mr. Robot right now. Items that I picked were the most commonly built on lolking and the most common AD items. Most games are decided from the 2-28 minute mark (between your 0th and 2nd big item) and there isn't much difference between the two here). I'm still going to be doing AD builds and sometimes on hit builds. I like the scaling into late game and the early game strength respectively.
... nvm Mr. Robot doesn't take gold into account.
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Do most people do E>Q? I was favoring Q because laning.
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On February 07 2013 12:44 nosliw wrote:
Do most people do E>Q? I was favoring Q because laning.
No most max Q.
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Yeah but your DPS uses E max in the abilities....
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On February 07 2013 13:01 nosliw wrote:
Yeah but your DPS uses E max in the abilities....
AP builds probably favor E max as E scales off of .4 AP at max rank and Q scales off 1.0 AP meaning with say 50 AP, your max E hits for 80 and your max Q hits for 280 and gives 5% more damage for 4 seconds. 280/80=3.5. Maxing E isn't terrible on AP Kayle. The breakeven is closer to 3 autos considering Kayle's first level of Q gives more damage(60) than a level up of Q(40).
Since I'm maxing E first in both AD and AP I doubt it makes much difference.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 07 2013 13:06 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 13:01 nosliw wrote:
Yeah but your DPS uses E max in the abilities.... AP builds probably favor E max as E scales off of .4 AP at max rank and Q scales off 1.0 AP meaning with say 50 AP, your max E hits for 80 and your max Q hits for 280 and gives 5% more damage for 4 seconds. 280/80=3.5. Maxing E isn't terrible on AP Kayle. The breakeven is closer to 3 autos considering Kayle's first level of Q gives more damage(60) than a level up of Q(40). Since I'm maxing E first in both AD and AP I doubt it makes much difference.
Q max in lane, E max in the jungle. That's how I've been doing it anyway.
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On February 08 2013 00:00 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 13:06 obesechicken13 wrote:On February 07 2013 13:01 nosliw wrote:
Yeah but your DPS uses E max in the abilities.... AP builds probably favor E max as E scales off of .4 AP at max rank and Q scales off 1.0 AP meaning with say 50 AP, your max E hits for 80 and your max Q hits for 280 and gives 5% more damage for 4 seconds. 280/80=3.5. Maxing E isn't terrible on AP Kayle. The breakeven is closer to 3 autos considering Kayle's first level of Q gives more damage(60) than a level up of Q(40). Since I'm maxing E first in both AD and AP I doubt it makes much difference. Q max in lane, E max in the jungle. That's how I've been doing it anyway.
I thought with the changes to jungle mobs health, it became max Q everywhere. I don't really have trouble cleaning up the small minions before the big one even dies with rank 1 E.
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Okay so I actually tried the Nashors + Liandrys build and what the fuck how does it do that much damage O_o
I actually dont understand why I am doing a shit ton of damage but it certainly does lol
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Yeah I don't understand either.
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Because %amplificated damage on top of %currentHP damage and an armour/MR %reduction kinda stack up to bullshit levels. Now add a DFG to it.
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Yes but it still doesn't make sense to me. The numbers I read do not add up to 1/2 of someone health in Q and 2 autos. Now if you get DFG do you Q then DFG or DFG then Q? O_o
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EPT
