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On February 11 2013 08:32 Bladeorade wrote:
Yes but it still doesn't make sense to me. The numbers I read do not add up to 1/2 of someone health in Q and 2 autos. Now if you get DFG do you Q then DFG or DFG then Q? O_o
I actually wondered this when I was looking through swain's skills and guessed that you should do whatever whatever order does more damage AFTER amplification, not before. Seems to me like the general idea is that the formula is
Q damage + (Q damage x .2) + DFG active damage = X
Q damage + DFG active damage + (DFG active damage x .1) = Y
If X > Y use Q first, if not use DFG first. Haven't done the math but if your targeting a squishy (low max hp) champion or have a large amount of AP, DFG first is better.
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What's the state of Kayle right now? I stopped playing LoL about a month ago, right before the Reckoning/MR level nerfs. I had been spamming her in soloq on my smurf to grind back up to Diamond but am not sure if she's still good for it. How's Kayle doing?
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Been enjoying a lot of jungle Kayle lately with Ghost/Smite.
Her roaming with W and clear speed with E is just insane, and the baits/tower dives that you can coordinate with her ult never gets old. Dunno why I dont see much Kayle players, jungle or otherwise, she's definitely my favorite champ to play.
Anyone got a grip on Kayle support? I gave it a few runs but it just seems so weak (or I'm just a bad support player).
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Kayle is still decent, but not top-tier anymore. That ult range nerf hurt a lot, surprisingly. Since you're a Diamond player you probably know more about it than we do, though.
Top lane Kayle is playable, but invariably pushes the lane hard and opens herself up to camping.
AP Carry Kayle is not quite as powerful as she used to be thanks to the nerfs, but she's still a force to be reckoned with. I think she's viable, but whatever.
Support Kayle is excellent against all-in bot laners like Tristana, Graves, Leona, Alistar, Blitzcrank, etc. Support Kayle suffers against poke-oriented bot laners such as Caitlyn and Lulu. Use her as a situational pick, don't play her every game.
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On May 16 2013 05:23 Jojo131 wrote:
Been enjoying a lot of jungle Kayle lately with Ghost/Smite.
Her roaming with W and clear speed with E is just insane, and the baits/tower dives that you can coordinate with her ult never gets old. Dunno why I dont see much Kayle players, jungle or otherwise, she's definitely my favorite champ to play.
Anyone got a grip on Kayle support? I gave it a few runs but it just seems so weak (or I'm just a bad support player).
What runes do you do with jungle? Also, what skill build? I typically play her mid or top.
I've played a few games of kayle support (and won them), and I think it has potential. She has a slow, a heal/ms boost, a ranged attack and a good ultimate for bot lane. A potential weakness is that she can't auto attack for harass without pushing the lane and/or messing up last hits, but I feel that this can be mitigated. I'm not a great player however, so I'm eager to hear what some better players think.
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On May 16 2013 06:24 Rho_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 05:23 Jojo131 wrote:
Been enjoying a lot of jungle Kayle lately with Ghost/Smite.
Her roaming with W and clear speed with E is just insane, and the baits/tower dives that you can coordinate with her ult never gets old. Dunno why I dont see much Kayle players, jungle or otherwise, she's definitely my favorite champ to play.
Anyone got a grip on Kayle support? I gave it a few runs but it just seems so weak (or I'm just a bad support player). What runes do you do with jungle? Also, what skill build? I typically play her mid or top. I've played a few games of kayle support (and won them), and I think it has potential. She has a slow, a heal/ms boost, a ranged attack and a good ultimate for bot lane. A potential weakness is that she can't auto attack for harass without pushing the lane and/or messing up last hits, but I feel that this can be mitigated. I'm not a great player however, so I'm eager to hear what some better players think.
I'm currently running attack speed (red), Armor (yellow), AP/level (blues) and Movespeed (quints). The reds and the yellows feel mandatory imo, the rest is just preference. Skilling R>E>Q>W.
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Okay, why are ppl building Nashor/Liandry on her? I thought Liandry's passive only triggered thru CC spells...which is only 1 spell on Kayle?
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old Q amplifies damage, so each proc of liandry's DOT is amplified
E splashes liandry's DOT, so it's like having BoTK in AOE for her autos
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With the new wits making me try out Kayle again, I realized just how strong rageblade is on her. Specially because, with good timing on her e and w casts, she can maintain 8 stacks indefinitely. This is strong when splitpushing, she can get from one wave to the next without going through the ramp up time.
Edit: Oh and I totally forgot the most important part: This also works for the unique passive that you get when falling below 50% health. So when trading, if you get it to proc, you basically have a permanent 10% lifesteal + spellvamp and 20% as on top of the normal rageblade stacks for as long as your mana holds the w - e rotation. And since you keep w at lvl1 (60 mana) and e cost doesn't grow, that will be a very long time. Just be careful about when your e is up.
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On June 19 2013 10:54 AleKSei23 wrote:http://www.twitch.tv/smashgizmo/b/410536505Can anyone understand what is going on with Phreak build in this Smashgizmo vid(Scroll to like 1:50 is the second game) how can you achieve this. looks good to me...
Looks like a pretty standard ap Kayle build except for the zephyr to me. I dont get the question really. Were u surprised he went ap on top ?
I think Kayle top is not optimal. You push the lane with your e and are more vulnerable cause of the longer lane. Also with blue and nashors tooth u already sit at 40% cdr + you can spam your w for great sustain and mobility. So blue does a lot for her.
She is also really great at taking wolves and wraiths, which u can not utilize at top.
And ye at 6 items she is pretty scary, though it would be even more scary with a lichbane instead of the zephyr.
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On June 19 2013 23:57 Kenpark wrote:Looks like a pretty standard ap Kayle build except for the zephyr to me. I dont get the question really. Were u surprised he went ap on top ? I think Kayle top is not optimal. You push the lane with your e and are more vulnerable cause of the longer lane. Also with blue and nashors tooth u already sit at 40% cdr + you can spam your w for great sustain and mobility. So blue does a lot for her. She is also really great at taking wolves and wraiths, which u can not utilize at top. And ye at 6 items she is pretty scary, though it would be even more scary with a lichbane instead of the zephyr.
i'm asking how to achieve this, what masterys, runes, etc.. i've been experimenting a bit but i don't seem to get it 
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You want both % pene masteries in offense anything else is your usual ap page. Hybrid reds, armor yellows, flat ap or mr blues, depending on mu or how aggresive you wanna play, and ap quints.
r > q > e > w
Rush nashors tooth asap. Its just made for her it seems. With blue you sit already at 40% cdr and can keep e on 100%. After that you have a lot of options. I really like to have nashor, rabadons and lichbane as my first 3 items. Your burst is really good at that point.
She is a lane bully and you have to play her like that.
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If someone wants to write the AP Guide I'll post it in the OP since AD Kayle has fallen way out of favor
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On June 20 2013 07:13 Kenpark wrote:
You want both % pene masteries in offense anything else is your usual ap page. Hybrid reds, armor yellows, flat ap or mr blues, depending on mu or how aggresive you wanna play, and ap quints.
r > q > e > w
Rush nashors tooth asap. Its just made for her it seems. With blue you sit already at 40% cdr and can keep e on 100%. After that you have a lot of options. I really like to have nashor, rabadons and lichbane as my first 3 items. Your burst is really good at that point.
She is a lane bully and you have to play her like that.
Should you be aiming for max CDR through items if you cant get blue buff constantly? I usually go nashors -> cdr boots or osmething like that to keep E up constantly
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On June 24 2013 10:41 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 07:13 Kenpark wrote:
You want both % pene masteries in offense anything else is your usual ap page. Hybrid reds, armor yellows, flat ap or mr blues, depending on mu or how aggresive you wanna play, and ap quints.
r > q > e > w
Rush nashors tooth asap. Its just made for her it seems. With blue you sit already at 40% cdr and can keep e on 100%. After that you have a lot of options. I really like to have nashor, rabadons and lichbane as my first 3 items. Your burst is really good at that point.
She is a lane bully and you have to play her like that.
Should you be aiming for max CDR through items if you cant get blue buff constantly? I usually go nashors -> cdr boots or osmething like that to keep E up constantly
I´m only in silver so take everything with a grain of salt, but I do have over 100 games this season with ap Kayle with a good %.
I think berserker are too good to pass on esp if you go with hybrid reds and not as reds. You just need that as. Maybe wits end is an option then, but I feel it delays your core items too much and it does nothing for your q and w.
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On June 24 2013 23:21 Kenpark wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 10:41 arb wrote:On June 20 2013 07:13 Kenpark wrote:
You want both % pene masteries in offense anything else is your usual ap page. Hybrid reds, armor yellows, flat ap or mr blues, depending on mu or how aggresive you wanna play, and ap quints.
r > q > e > w
Rush nashors tooth asap. Its just made for her it seems. With blue you sit already at 40% cdr and can keep e on 100%. After that you have a lot of options. I really like to have nashor, rabadons and lichbane as my first 3 items. Your burst is really good at that point.
She is a lane bully and you have to play her like that.
Should you be aiming for max CDR through items if you cant get blue buff constantly? I usually go nashors -> cdr boots or osmething like that to keep E up constantly I´m only in silver so take everything with a grain of salt, but I do have over 100 games this season with ap Kayle with a good %. I think berserker are too good to pass on esp if you go with hybrid reds and not as reds. You just need that as. Maybe wits end is an option then, but I feel it delays your core items too much and it does nothing for your q and w.
I agree. I play a fair bit of Kayle at Gold III and I feel berserkers > sorcs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CDR boots
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Man, can anyone give me some pointers on AP kayle? For some reason I am just awful with her. Reading through this thread, am I right so far with
R>Q>E>W
21-9-0?
As for items, I find that rushing a lot of damage just leaves me so vulnerable as a short range, low CC, auto reliant squishy caster. Do I just need to use my ult/heal better? The only mid I am half decent at is Ahri and so I'm sure my Ap caster positioning is garbage.
What is a good item progression/6 item build to work towards?
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I hate to bump an old thread, but it's better than making a new one. I figure it's worth talking about Kayle again after recent events in the professional scene. As we know, she saw two sets of nerfs, but they didn't Olaf her. As some compensation, Nashor's Tooth is one of the most cost-effective items in the game, but it only is really optimal on Kayle and Teemo.
Kayle sees sporadic play at the professional level. Vileroze used her in LCS occasionally, but opponents banned Kayle quite a bit, so we didn't get to see too much of her from Velocity. Alex Ich used her in the EU LCS playoffs as a counter to Zed, and Whitezz used her in the World Championship Semifinals in a 1v2 lane as a teamfight counter to Fizz. However, Kayle's full potential is contingent on landing solid Interventions, and IMO that is one of the hardest things to do in the game. A few days back we saw Fnatic constantly force Kayle to ult herself (or the Support) to keep them alive, stopping her from saving Caitlyn as best she could.
I play Kayle a crapton, though I am admittedly pretty bad at her, specifically in terms of teamfight positioning and ulting people.
Responding to the other posts in the thread...
I prefer 21/6/3 or 21/0/9 masteries. Runes are AP Quints/AS Reds/Armor Yellows/MR Blues. Sometimes I substitute in Movespeed Quints when I need to kite people better or dodge skillshots more easily. mp/5 Yellows are an option against a magic damage enemy, but I think Armor is better to help take creep aggro.
For a build, start Flask/Ward/Pot or DRing/Pots, the former is better in most cases cause junglers will get on your nuts early.
Build is Boots, Nashor's, Lich Bane, Rabadon, Void, Zhonya, in roughly that order, though you can move up Void if everyone's a tank, or move up Zhonya if you need it for whatever reason (assassins, all-AD team, etc). I like Zerkers for fast pushing, but Sorcs is better for teamfighting. Liandry is kinda bad after the Kayle nerf IMO, but it can work with Rylai and Sorc I think. You can use Zephyr if you need it I guess, or something like Randuin/BVeil/Warmogs/Scimitar if you absolutely need it.
The big challenge of playing Kayle is intelligent positioning in teamfights and good ults, at least in my opinion.
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For maximum burst you can go Nashor's -> Lichbane -> DFG.
If you are even or ahead, you WILL kill the enemy ADC in under 2 seconds with a DFG -> E Lichbane proc -> Q -> auto unless they have godlike reflexes to get out of range of the second auto.
From personal experience, 3rd item is situational between Hourglass, Void, DFG, or GA. I used to go Deathcap in most of my games, but you get a comparable amount of AP from DFG, with 10% CDR to make you not blue dependent for keeping up E (30% CDR gives you 0.2 seconds of downtime on E), and the active melts squishies with your combo so it's probably strictly better to go DFG before Deathcap.
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EPT
