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Couldn't find a thread about trist, so I decided to start the discussion on the optimal way to play her.
Tristana is a free champion that you can get by liking LOL on facebook. You also get a riot girl tristana skin.
(this is my build b/4 hecarim patch)
Masteries: 21/9/0
-Take vamprisim rather than havoc, otherwise just standard 21 in ad.
For 9 def get the bonus health.
I like getting 9 in defence because it allows you to go baws deep. And going baws deep make you win lane. This is my playstyle and it's how I enjoy the game. Of course, there are other non-manly ways to play tristana that also works, especially because she is an incredible late game AD carry.
Summoners: Heal/ignite
The reason for taking heal and ignite is because it allows tristana to start with doran's blade. If opponents try to harass trist, she can just jump on them. With a doran blade+ heal and ignite, trist can come out on top. The reason why I think tristana can get away with a doran's blade is because enemy will be scared to harass you. If they do come in range for a harass, Tristana can just go all-in + ignite, and with support follow up, either get a kill or chunk the enemy hard enough that they are forced to play cautious until their health regenerates.
In addition, Tristana can naturally push the creep wave under the enemy tower and this will deny the opponent's opportunity to harass.
Runes: Flat attack damage quints, and reds. Flat armor yellow and magic resist per level. The reason for the flat attack damage quints and reds is to help last hit creep. Tristana can be difficult to CS because of her E passive. One tip I find useful in csing with tristana is to auto attack the minion that is getting killed fastest.
Another option is to go lifesteal quints. It is really strong for ad carries since the recent sustain nerf on vamp scepter. It's the most cost effective way to use your quint spots.
Skills:
Passive( draw a bead): Increase your auto attack range per level. At level 18, her attack range is 703, it allows you to hit baron and dragon from behind the pit.
Q: rapid fire: Increase your attack speed for 7 seconds, cooldown is 20 seconds. The attack speed boost is 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90%. (max this second)
W: rocket jump: Tristana jump to target location, the range is 900 to the center of the radius. Magic Damage: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+0.8 per ability power). The cooldown reset upon a kill or an assit. The closer you jump, the faster it's executed. Also, you set off cait traps/Event horizon if your jump trajectory is over a trap and you can get hit by C/C during your jump. (max this skill 1st) The damage on W scales better with level than E, so that's the reason for maxing W over E.
E: It's a dmg/ over time skill, it's very strong early levels (read level 1).The passive pushes your lane. Try to E the enemy when they are chugging a health pot, it would be the equivalent of doing 25 extra damage. (get a level in E at level 1 and level 4)
R: a good nuke, it pushes enemy back, it can push back more than 1 enemy if they are all bunched. The distance of displacement increases with level. Gives you good kill potential at level 6.
With W and ult, it can be a very useful tool to gank mid, you can jump behind the enemy and ult them toward your own mid.(However, your primary job should be farming, Tristana is useless late game without items, you should try get your full build asap).
Items:
I like starting with doran's blade. I used to start with boots and pots, and go flash/heal. But I find doran's blade with heal ignite wins lane more.
Typically I try to get an extra doran's blade and boot in first trip back. If the enemy laner has a lot of sustain/and harasses you alot, then I will also get a vamp scepter.
After 2 doran's blades and boots, you have a couple of choices:
Item path 1: IE-> PD-> LW -> QSS-> bloodthirster: this is the standard, if enemy have hard CC/fed mages and armor.
Item path 2: IE->PD->PD: Go this path if they have no armor and you are ahead.
Item path 3. IE-> LW -> PD: Multiple enemy have built armor and your ap carry does no damage.
Support: always ask your support to get ignite or exhaust.
I think leona is probably the best support for Tristana. She has CC, damage and lvl 6 burst.
Other good supports are alistair and taric.
Leona vs alistair, if I had to choose between those 2, it would be leona, because her ult is one of the best initiation in the game. (longest ranged AOE stun).
The difference between leona and alistar is that leona is very weak at level 1. If your opponent is good you will get denied from creep at the very first level.
Laning: It's pretty complicated, it depends on who's support, who's the enemy ad carry, what summoners did they take and what items do they have. Be smart about engaging.
If you have summoner advantage over your opponents at level 2, and most of the time you do. You always want to jump in and E + ignite. This pretty much guarantees that you win your lane.
In general, you want to push your wave under their tower. There are many good reasons for this: 1)minimize their harass and maximize yours. 2) Make them lose last hits. 3) Open opportunities for your jungler to invade or help in case of counter jungling. (If the enemy bot lane follows, they will lose minion waves and exp at their tower.)
However, depending on the enemy jungler and mid, you may not want to do this. For example, TF mid and pantheon jungle.
Playstyle: At early levels, when you jump in, use ignite, then E while in midair. You get extra AP and AD . The early ignite gives them heal reduction, and if they blow a summoner to get away, your ignite will comeback up before their exhaust, heal, cleanse, and flash. It's important to know when their summoner's and your support's summoners will be up. That way you can win all trades.
At level 6, your combo does a total of 600 magic damage ( W+E+R), ignite does 170 damage. With 30 magic resist, your combo does 462+ 170 true damage= 632.
However, make sure you have enough mana to do your combo.
If opponents are harassing you at ur tower, keep in mind that trist can jump behind them and ult them into tower.
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Argument for maxing Q
A while back I thought about maxing Q instead of E. Most guides say to max E on tristana but I find that E doesn't scale very well. It does 110 damage at level 1 and then 110+30*3=230 at level 4. So from level 1->4 it only doubles in strength.
There's no other benefit from E. The mana cost also increases with level. Although the splash on killing units is good at clearing waves I don't like making it stronger since it pushes the wave too much and only idiots stand in the minion wave taking explosive shots to the face. But if they were to stand in the minions taking explosive shot splash, you could also just shoot them with your autoattacks.
Explosive shot is also a DoT so it doesn't offer more burst that you may want in a 2v2 fight down bot lane than Q does.
I made a text file trying to figure out how much damage tristana did in a fight where she didn't get stunned or interrupted given if she maxed Q or E first.
I find Q as good at pushing waves as E when I want to push but I like having the option to not push waves.
This is what I had in the notepad file:
+ Show Spoiler +tristana rapid fire damage = %damage increase * base attack speed * damage at level
At levels 1,3,5,7,9
Tristana's E damage = damage of spell.
Assuming no pickaxe yet, just serkers greaves and vamp scepter (1500 gold and haven't backed yet)
At what level is Q better than E?
Level 1, Q = .3*.658*(46.5+3)*7=68.4 damage
Level 3, Q = .45*.658*(46.5+3*3)*7=115 damage
Level 5, Q = .6*.658*(46.5+5*3)*7=170 damage
Level 7, Q = .75*.658*(46.5+7*3)*7=233 damage
As you can see, Q grows much more quickly whereas E grows by 30 damage per level.
In trades though, I would think putting more points in Q is worth it if you can get one more shot in.
Although I tried to be very specific, it's likely Q will only get to work on an indeterminate number of cooldown cycles though theoretically, it could work on a specific amount depending on how far you are into a cooldown when it starts and when it wears off. It works on 6.3 cycles (.658*.9) at level 5.
Q is much worse when you only get 1 or 2 attacks off like when you are running or chasing or trading.
E deals damage over 5 seconds anyways.
Q deals damage over 7 seconds.
E is a good harassment tool in that the splash damage hurts enemies.
E costs 50-90 mana whereas W costs 80 mana and Q costs 80 mana.
Once you get some good attack damage items, Q becomes much much better. If you max Q first, it may be a good idea to skip greaves for IE first.
If you build doran's blades early on the comparison is stupidly in favor of maxing Q first.
Finally, I just feel like I'm much stronger when I max Q first than when I max E. You get the damage back with Q in 1-2 attacks. Don't max E.
Summoners
I take flash with no exceptions.
Against ashe I take cleanse as well.
Exhaust, and heal are my other main summoners though I do see the appeal of ignite, your E already reduces healing effects and the status does not stack.
With flash you can do a jump->flash->ult into your team combo whenever you have an advantage. Don't do it against ashe or vayne if it puts you in a position to get hit by a tower with condemn/frost arrow.
Smartcasting
I smartcast tristana's E and R but not her W: her jump. I like knowing exactly where I'll jump and often mess up jumps or don't go the maximum distance when I don't smartcast.
One neat trick you can do with tristana if you see someone backing near their tower, when they only have one autoattack of life left and no heals or stuns, is to jump in, auto them while jumping, and jump right back out.
Tristana's jump is (partly?) treated a as a dash so don't try to jump through curvy terrain when she's up next to it but only on Tuesdays. She can however jump over areas like thick walls that other true dashes can't do. When tristana jumps over something like a caitlyn trap, she activates the trap.
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I dont know if I like where Trist is right now.
She's not a bad AD carry but I feel like other carrys can out perform in late game.
Late game, her W and Ult damage isn't that great. Her range and AS steroid are the only things keeping her going, but if you look at other carrys like Vayne or Graves or Kog, their late game output seems to be more frightening.
Basically Trist's Ult = Vayne's E, not to mention Vayne's E can stun if used correctly
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On April 08 2012 14:07 GhostOwl wrote:
I dont know if I like where Trist is right now.
She's not a bad AD carry but I feel like other carrys can out perform in late game.
Late game, her W and Ult damage isn't that great. Her range and AS steroid are the only things keeping her going, but if you look at other carrys like Vayne or Graves or Kog, their late game output seems to be more frightening.
Basically Trist's Ult = Vayne's E, not to mention Vayne's E can stun if used correctly
Yeah I agree. I really don't see anything that tristana does that other people don't do better. In a way she's a bit like Kayle (pre patch) in that she doesn't have a role in which she is the go-to champion. I've never been in a game where tristana has truly scared me in the way that Vayne and Kog can late game.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I have to disagree. With the longest passive range at level 18, if you're decently farmed, it's really hard for opposing teams to even reach you if you position well. You essentially have 2 escapes in your jump and ultimate as well as Flash should you choose to take it. Tack on top a ridiculous steroid and you can essentially kite people all day if they choose to jump you and kill them rather well.
Long range means you can stay pretty safe and with multiple escapes you shouldn't have too hard of a time autoattacking from afar. Not to mention her early game is also really strong. Ridiculous burst in lane alongside an aggressive support.
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edit: I agree with the guy above me, sorry if it's just a repeat of what he said, I wrote this before I saw the above post.
Kog outperforms Trist in pretty much every single way. But I think Kog is going to get nerfed.
As for other ad carries, they outperform trist in some ways but trist are better in others. Mostly because of highest ad range, highest att speed steroid, second longest jump (900 range) that refreshes on kill/assist, furthest Knock back of any champ.
So he's really hard to get to, other AD carries are more vulnerable. In teamfights, these other ad carries do less damage, because they have to kite/ get zoned from the the fight. But, trist can attack more often, before he have to start moving away.
Trist is a tradeoff between having a good early and late game in exchange for your midgame. Trist's midgame is very weak, even if she is an item ahead, she can't outduel graves, vayne, or sivir. And she can't outburst Corki, Ezreal.
That's why heal ignite is strong on tristana, it allows you to have a much stronger early game so that hopefully you can get some kills. If you come up ahead in early game, the late game transition is alot easier.
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Why not max W first? Way too easy to escape ganks and clean up a team fight.
Also, once you really learn Trist, she becomes super powerful in your hands. Calculated Rocekt Jumps into the enemy's tower can net an easy kill, then the Rocket Jump CD reset helps you get right back out.
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On April 08 2012 09:20 obesechicken13 wrote:
Argument for maxing Q
A while back I thought about maxing Q instead of E. Most guides say to max E on tristana
Never heard anyone maxing E on tristana.
But the reason why you max Q second is because by then you will have enough range and items to make use of it. It's pretty rare case that you would get to sit there and just hit people during lane phase for 7 seconds.
Even with Q, against most other AD carries you lose in a duel. Given the same number of items, I think graves, kogmaw, and vayne can just straight up kill you.
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Austria17960 Posts
WEWEWR first 6 levels, then W > Q > E.
Q doesn't do shit early, and E is at least a little useful for the (threatened) harrass and burst.
Only reason to ever get Q pre-6 is if you're a 2v1 lane and want to kill the tower.
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Claims are usually followed by proof.
If you get one more autoattack in because of Q in a trade even early on then it will have done more than maxing E. You don't max W because trading with it forces you to commit. The cooldown on W goes down to at minimum 14 seconds on rank 5. That's still too long to use twice in one fight. Before you type that "W resets on kills" I know it does! That's not the point.
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Austria17960 Posts
On April 09 2012 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:
Claims are usually followed by proof.
If you get one more autoattack in because of Q in a trade even early on then it will have done more than maxing E. You don't max W because trading with it forces you to commit. The cooldown on W goes down to at minimum 14 seconds on rank 5. That's still too long to use twice in one fight. Before you type that "W resets on kills" I know it does! That's not the point.
I want proof too.
Tell me please, how will you ever get your full Q-DPS without dying?
Trist is still bad at trading, no matter how early you get Q. Graves, Kog, Vayne, Urgot, MF etc. all do more 1v1 DPS. They only AD that doesn't straight up kill you in a 1v1 is probably Ashe, and she'll just kite you and the Q is wasted.
You get E early because you can just cast it after an AA and then back off. The DoT gets full duration, you don't lose much health.*
EDIT: *OBVIOUSLY NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT
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On April 09 2012 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:
Claims are usually followed by proof.
If you get one more autoattack in because of Q in a trade even early on then it will have done more than maxing E. You don't max W because trading with it forces you to commit. The cooldown on W goes down to at minimum 14 seconds on rank 5. That's still too long to use twice in one fight. Before you type that "W resets on kills" I know it does! That's not the point.
burst is trist's strength early. if you don't max w first you have no burst and even with maxed q you are going to loss in auto trades with every ad. trist wins lanes by having enough burst along with your sup to 100 to zero someone or by jumping on them when they are alone because the sup went to ward or something, backing off then going in again and bursting them down. you should never be able to beat an other ad by trading autos.
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Huh. I really dislike this OP since it's so brief and doesn't actually talk about much, even if you wanted to open discussion on Tristana. Imo, OPs really should be detailed threads that knowledgeable people about the champion are willing to maintain and talk about. But whatever, I'll overlook that there's no mentioned of everything from the Alistar-Trist combo to all the lane-matchup intricacies such as going W or E first and other Summoner Spells.
Anyway, if you have a lane you need to push back against, or if you're never going to trade with W because it kills you, it's ok to level E a bit more. Q maxed by the early teens though since it's a massive dps steriod for the mid-game fights, especially since you should have IE by around 20 or early 20s. But you need to be super careful when using it since the CD is pretty punishing. Doran start is also being super greedy, especially in a high harass lane or with no sustain support. Heal is a combat summoner, not a keep you in lane longer. And once you've blown it, you've lost a lot of kill potential. W is of course an escape tool, or a chase tool but only used for chase when you're not going to die.
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On April 09 2012 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:
Claims are usually followed by proof.
If you get one more autoattack in because of Q in a trade even early on then it will have done more than maxing E. You don't max W because trading with it forces you to commit. The cooldown on W goes down to at minimum 14 seconds on rank 5. That's still too long to use twice in one fight. Before you type that "W resets on kills" I know it does! That's not the point.
Yesterday i saw a game at IPL with the mono AD-carry doing some weird shit (i think he had 2 in Q, 2 in W and 1 in E+his ulti at lvl 6). They were leona+trist vs soraka and corki, and you could just see that it wasn't possible to burst down anyone, because even with a BF, they didn't have enough burst to counter sorakas sustain.
You ALWAYS max W first. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS THERE IS NO EXCEPTION EVER!!!
You can generally pick up Q in lvl 4, if you feel like you won't be able to burst them down at any point, but still then i prefer getting a 2nd level in e. It helps alot with pushing, and it's free harass, because most people don't really bother.
Oh and sometimes getting E at lvl 1 isn't a bad idea, if you feel like you don't need the escape mechanic. The dot is really great+trist will hit him with auto so you can auto-e-auto, but it forces you into a close range, so be careful.
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I see some point to W.
OP, your paragraph on W is a bit confusing. You say to max W first and then second in the same paragraph lol
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Leona + Trist is usually better than ali + trist. Mainly because leona's ult at level 6 add to the burst that trist does at level 6.
However, it can be difficult at level 1 with leona +trist.
I get a level in E first to push lane to get a fast lvl 2. But if you start W, you take less damage doing double golems.
Also leona is a better initiator, she has an AOE stun with the longest range in the game and is only on a 60 sec cooldown. Imo leona support does everything better than alistair.
Edit: definitely max W first, sorry for confusion. I fixed it. I meant to say get W at level 2.
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tristana's 6 item lategame is probably the best hands down
vayne has comparable damage and more maneuverability in a short range
but against the vast majority of teams, tristana's more effective self peel and extreme range allow her unparalleled damage output as she can constantly be attacking with minimal spell usage
she has a very strong level 6, but has a large drought in her midgame strength (whereas many other champions have strong steroids or relatively low risk low cd spells that can be used for poke, trist's kit is only good for hard engagements and using her rocket jump to utilize its damage fully is often suicidal early in fights) where many common ADs these days do not.
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Also for the runes and masteries sections i think you should elaborate abit more. While the 15 ad is nice and helps last-hitting, it doesn't really help her that much in lane besides that. Being "tanky" and playing abit ballsy can often result in an easy FB, because you're so fucking strong at lvl 2 with cc supports (leona, taric, ali).
Arp reds or ad reds, armor seals, flat mres and hp quints is very neat and gives tristana everything she needs to play agressive in lane.
For masteries you can go 21/9/0 or 23/0/7, whatever fits your playstyle. I would recommend flash/heal tho, flash is really just mandatory on ad carries these days with all them gap closers.
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On April 09 2012 04:19 Navi wrote:
tristana's 6 item lategame is probably the best hands down
vayne has comparable damage and more maneuverability in a short range
but against the vast majority of teams, tristana's more effective self peel and extreme range allow her unparalleled damage output as she can constantly be attacking with minimal spell usage
she has a very strong level 6, but has a large drought in her midgame strength (whereas many other champions have strong steroids or relatively low risk low cd spells that can be used for poke, trist's kit is only good for hard engagements and using her rocket jump to utilize its damage fully is often suicidal early in fights) where many common ADs these days do not.
I think I might disagree with you on that. I have always felt that the scariest 6-item AD carry is Ashe by far. She has a great initiate, reliable AOE damage with CC, CC, more CC, and a nice little scout. You can always avoid trist but if an Ashe has her ult up she will get close enough o you that you wont ever get away
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wats the big deal with tristana?
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EPT
