EPT[Champion] Tristana - Page 6
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
On January 04 2013 04:59 Dark_Chill wrote: I think people were talking about making E have her next auto-attack do the E spell (sorry I don't know how to explain that better), which would make it much easier to cast during the late game. That alone seems fine. Didn't they buff her E so that its range adjusts to her AA range? This makes it pretty easy to cast in late game. And I have no idea why they dont make her E a toggle. I must say though I learned adc and how to last hit on Trist with her E passive so now last hitting with other adc's always seems weird to me, lol. | ||
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Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
On January 04 2013 01:52 Sponkz wrote: Terribly designed, just how? She has a knockback, a jump, an attack speed steroid, a dot which is incredibly strong versus sustain-bruisers. The only sad part about tristana is that she sucks so badly during mid-game, but just play her with nunu. It's like nunu/cait just better. Also Djin, how can u compare her to 3 ADC's without an escape spell (twitch has stealth, but it's not the same). Puh I wanted to write a long text, comparing her with heros like venge in Dota (dmg aura, disable -> useful throughout the game; ultimate: sacrifice urself for the greater good -> great support hero), but.. i dont know. Afaic all other adc offer some sort of scaling, like Kog maws w. Dmg based on max health? hey, better get AS! Tris has a sick steroid? Hey, better get AD! That's good, but she is just so item dependent and doesnt offer anything besides Q and auto attacks, and I think this is just too limited. Corki/kog maw have great pokes, ez/draven global AOE ultis, ashe her arrow, mf has a sick AOE ulti, sivir an as/ms team buff. Many of them have passives that increase the dmg/ms/as. They all have some sort of ad scaling (except kog max I think, but he has his W). As was written before, there is no midgame. There is no scaling. There is just Q and auto attack. W Q are to peel off/disengage, E is.. yeah well. To me that sounds like terrible design. And then you have the problem that she doesnt have any harrass because her range (550) is mediocre but will always be less then sivirs q, ashes w, ezreals spells, graves spells, even with the passive. She feels a bit like Yi. Squishy(low health gain) melee auto attacker with an AD non scaling passive, AP scaling Q that doesnt get you back to where you stood (so its not a simple multi damage nuke) but to where the enemy was standing when you casted it(!), AP scaling channeling W sustain, AD non scaling E, and an MS/AS Ulti which grants immunity to slows and gives him a reset when killing. I mean what the fuck? Obviously you are supposed to play him as an AD melee hero that can use his Q as a gap closer but then why are non of his skills AD scaling? Why is Q AP scaling while E is non scaling? That just doesnt make any sense. But maybe its just me.... I dont know.  On January 04 2013 02:24 phyvo wrote: The thing is if you add an AD ratio to E/R you're forced to take power away from other parts of the kit, like her range, steroid, or her W repositioning. AD scaling abilities are strongest mid, not late, especially for an ADC who must build AS/crit. So in adding AD ratios you'd be dialing back her late-game and/or early game in favor of mid-game. I don't see why that's necessary unless her midgame becomes completely unplayable. A different power curve is abolutely ok, having 5/6 item late game heros in the game is great. But I dont see why would play Tris if you can play kog maw, vayne or twitch. Imo they all carry harder, but maybe thats just me | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Max Q is basically 4(.658*.9*7=4.15) free attacks over 7 seconds. I don't think it counts as a reset or starts working as soon as she presses Q(so I can't say it's more than 4). Her E is only 230 damage assuming she doesn't kill someone and have that damage splash to another target. So the breakeven point is ~ 230/4 ~60 damage. I'm obviously ignoring the difference between magic and physical damage but she's not bad mid game with just ~45 bonus damage and a maxed Q. At level 9, Tristana with AD runes, 2 doran's and a pickax, does 126 damage per shot so max Q is (4*126-230)=270 more damage than max E assuming you're constantly shooting. It's just hard to stand and shoot for 7 seconds in laning phase. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
Her spells remain at base damage for the entire game. She needs that IE and PD to be worth a damn. I used to go IE green pot but thats not possible anymore. The reason you max E is because WEigniteR with autos is a huge amount of burst in lane. If you are able to get kills then you can potentially skip your weaker midgame entirely and come to the first fight with IE Zeal/PD etc. However I would say if you are behind in lane, maxing Q is better so you at least have more sustain damage. I generally level EWEWERQEQ and then max Q out. W at level 1 if invading or if invaded. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I'm not a Trist player at all but I was wondering, since I know a Trist main than always maxes Q last (as in 1 point at 8 or something then leave it till the end), how she can adapt stuff. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 04 2013 12:04 Alaric wrote: Oh? I'd have done something like WEWEWR then R>W>Q>E, from reading her kit and stuff. Is it to be able to harass with E (W scales better in base damage for the all-in, and lowered cooldown allows more leeway)? I'm not a Trist player at all but I was wondering, since I know a Trist main than always maxes Q last (as in 1 point at 8 or something then leave it till the end), how she can adapt stuff. W is what all the guides do. It's not wrong. Just be aware that W is more of an all in skill and you won't be able to use it for repositioning or damage in as many cases as you want. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On January 04 2013 10:48 Bladeorade wrote: The issue with her midgame is that she has 0 AD scaling spells. Her spells remain at base damage for the entire game. She needs that IE and PD to be worth a damn. I used to go IE green pot but thats not possible anymore. The key is to dominate your lane and snowball hard so you can skip over the midgame as much as possible. It also helps if your team is smart and understands the need to delay teamfights until you finish IE. On January 04 2013 10:48 Bladeorade wrote: The reason you max E is because WEigniteR with autos is a huge amount of burst in lane. If you are able to get kills then you can potentially skip your weaker midgame entirely and come to the first fight with IE Zeal/PD etc. However I would say if you are behind in lane, maxing Q is better so you at least have more sustain damage. I generally level EWEWERQEQ and then max Q out. W at level 1 if invading or if invaded. Points in E after the 1st aren't actually that useful, since each additional point only increases the E damage by 30. Therefore, Q is much better for all-ins, and E only really benefits you if you're playing a poke game in lane against certain champs. Additional points in E are also problematic because they further increase your unintentional lane pushing. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On January 04 2013 12:04 Alaric wrote: Oh? I'd have done something like WEWEWR then R>W>Q>E, from reading her kit and stuff. Is it to be able to harass with E (W scales better in base damage for the all-in, and lowered cooldown allows more leeway)? I'm not a Trist player at all but I was wondering, since I know a Trist main than always maxes Q last (as in 1 point at 8 or something then leave it till the end), how she can adapt stuff. As a Trist main, I prefer EWWQWR then R>W>Q>E. This gives you the maximum damage possible in the early game, which is essential since you're looking to exploit your immense burst for all-in kills at 2 and 6, and because once you jump in you're basically committed and can only win the trade by forcing them to run/die before you do. An early point in Q also means less unintentional lane pushing from E splash, and the ability to push your lane hard in order to reset lane or before pooling. It's more mana-intensive on an already mana-intensive champ, though, so I recommend taking 21/0/9 for Meditation so you can sustain it. On January 04 2013 12:08 obesechicken13 wrote: W is what all the guides do. It's not wrong. Just be aware that W is more of an all in skill and you won't be able to use it for repositioning or damage in as many cases as you want. The correct skill to start with is always E. At level 1 it does more damage than W, forces the opponent to stand away from their minion line, and owns healing effects. Auto->E->Auto chips off a sizable amount of health before the second wave, and landing it allows you to easily finish with Trist's terrifying W->Auto->E->Ignite->Auto the second you hit level 2. The escape that W provides is also negligible at level 1, since you will almost never be ganked so early. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1950 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
The whole debate on whether or not she needs AD ratios is a pointless discussion, cus it will mean a total re-work for Tristana, something that she doesn't need. She's one of the oldest champions and if there was something wrong with her kit, i'm more than certain RIOT would have taken actions by now. As more people are stating, her mid-game is terrible and doing a Q-max by lvl 9 will only weaken her early game, where she's arguably one of the strongest of all ADC's because of her kit that allows her to burst. The only downside is that from the point where u got max rank in W, she stops scaling from pure burst, and the only way to solve it is getting items and levels. Recently i've been playing Nunu/Tristana and it solves alot of the weaknesses for her. The steroid from Blood Boil makes her so much stronger coming out of laning phase, the only real issue is that it can be somewhat her to extend a lead in the early phases of laning due to Nunu not having a hard initiation. But while her laning phase might be abit weaker with nunu, she makes up for it as soon as she gets her first major item. The damage is completely nuts, and if you can CS properly (and get a kill or two) you can sit on a IE+Rank 5 Blood Boil at 18-20 min you should have no trouble killing stuff. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Wether you start W or E depends heavily. W is by and far better if you plan to invade, or have reason to think you will get invaded. E start is decent in lane, but it pushes pretty hard if you level it from the start. I sometimes even wait with leveling it at lvl2 for a while, so I won't push too much (can also screw up lasthits). But as I said, it depends a lot on everything. imo it's mostly preference and both are viable. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On January 04 2013 21:35 Sponkz wrote: Getting 2 points in E isn't the worst of ideas, it helps alot with your burst and makes your lvl 3 quite strong. While i do agree that she's a terrible pushing machine with 2 points in E, what it offers is lane is too good to pass up. It offers +30 damage to a skill that already deals 110 damage + 50% heal reduction. At best, it's a marginal benefit, (especially when compared to +45 damage that you forgo from going EWW instead of EWE) that is outweighed by the lane pushing problem. On January 04 2013 21:35 Sponkz wrote: The whole debate on whether or not she needs AD ratios is a pointless discussion, cus it will mean a total re-work for Tristana, something that she doesn't need. She's one of the oldest champions and if there was something wrong with her kit, i'm more than certain RIOT would have taken actions by now. Yeah, Trist was designed before AD ratios were implemented and was balanced around it. If there's anything that needs to change it's fixing the buggy nature of her rocket jump. On January 04 2013 21:35 Sponkz wrote: As more people are stating, her mid-game is terrible and doing a Q-max by lvl 9 will only weaken her early game, where she's arguably one of the strongest of all ADC's because of her kit that allows her to burst. The only downside is that from the point where u got max rank in W, she stops scaling from pure burst, and the only way to solve it is getting items and levels. AD Trist actually stops scaling effectively from burst after level 6. Trist's spells have very high base damage from their first points but scale poorly without AP, which allows Ez/Graves/Corki/Vayne to quickly outpace her. On top of that, the suicidal nature of her combo means that you can't really afford to use it in teamfights except when the kill/assist is guaranteed, which shortens the viability window for burst even further. On January 04 2013 21:35 Sponkz wrote: Recently i've been playing Nunu/Tristana and it solves alot of the weaknesses for her. The steroid from Blood Boil makes her so much stronger coming out of laning phase, the only real issue is that it can be somewhat her to extend a lead in the early phases of laning due to Nunu not having a hard initiation. But while her laning phase might be abit weaker with nunu, she makes up for it as soon as she gets her first major item. The damage is completely nuts, and if you can CS properly (and get a kill or two) you can sit on a IE+Rank 5 Blood Boil at 18-20 min you should have no trouble killing stuff. You shouldn't really have trouble killing stuff as long as you get IE in a timely manner (I aim for the 16 minute mark), with or without Blood Boil. Trist's ideal laning partner is Alistar, because he enables her to get more kills/dominate the lane/snowball harder, while also sustaining her and keeping her safe. The extra money you get because of this allows you to skip over the midgame by getting you to IE quickly. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
2. Fuck that jump, jumping into the wall sucks! 3. Imo she stops scaling past 9, because that's when you got your W maxed, and past lvl 8 you stop skilling E and start skilling your Q instead. 4. While i do agree that Alistar/Trist is a strong lane, what it offers past lane is merely protection for trist, while nunu can provide peeling with his Ice Blast and Absolute Zero on top of providing a 1700 gold attack speed steroid, something Tristana really needs when she finish her IE. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Problem with trist in the mid game is that you don't have any burst, no range, and you can't w into people anymore unless its a sure kill. Look at other great mid game ad carries like graves, MF, and ezreal who all have high sources of damage besides just autoing. Sure, trist has "okay" escapes. I say okay because her jump really isn't all that great compared to say ezreal's. But you just don't have the burst dmg past level 8 or so. | ||
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Mondieu
Romania803 Posts
Now to why I find Tristana to be so succesful is because she's a yordle. That means she's a bit underplayed and most of the players do not know her true power. They all play carelessly, feeling they MUST get every cs, and that ends up costing them. They needlessly eat 'E's all the time, they get out of position not knowing Tristana can chunk 3-400 out of their hp at level 3 easily ( ignite included) and then end up feeding. I find MF/Graves/Taric/Draven to be Tristana's counters in bottom lane. | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I want something that gives armor. Because it's probable Cait has arpen reds and quints. 35 armor pen is too much early on. But I don't want to have to sell the item back later. Do I suck it up and just get a chain mail and carry it with me the rest of the game? Maybe turn it into a GA, Ohmwrecker, | ||
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