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On June 30 2012 08:46 Shikyo wrote:
I'm learning AD carry and thus want to learn to play all of them for variety.
However, Tristana just puzzles me. I always miss a ton of lasthits because of E, but if I max Q instead of E then my burst suffers. Btw it's false that Q is bad early because you have a low aspd - the base aspd value never changes so it always adds the same amount. If anything, it's BETTER early because it's a higher percentual increase.
I have no idea what to do, also my midgame sucks with her ._. Only after I get to the point where I can Q and right click and instamelt everything and W away and do that again do I feel like I know what I'm doing. Before my PD is finished I just feel entirely useless.
Another thing is that I suicide with W way too often but yeah.. >_> I call it the Corki effect.
You just need to play trist more, then you naturally learn how to last hit with her E 
Also midgame trist is notoriously bad when not fed. Lategame and early game trist are both beast though
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So uh, 9-1 in ranked with teh trist so far
She the new OP (in solo q)?
Edit: 11-1 as of now
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I do always wonder why trist isn't played more. Sure she gets outshined by a few other AD carries (Graves, maybe Kog and Vayne). But she is so super safe late game with ultra range, a jump, and a peel. With the current meta of "keep AD alive late game and win" you would think this would make her more common. Maybe I am just biased, but I also hate how Graves is played in like 40% of all ranked games: http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves#statistics learn another ADC people!
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On July 27 2012 11:15 YouGotNothin wrote:I do always wonder why trist isn't played more. Sure she gets outshined by a few other AD carries (Graves, maybe Kog and Vayne). But she is so super safe late game with ultra range, a jump, and a peel. With the current meta of "keep AD alive late game and win" you would think this would make her more common. Maybe I am just biased, but I also hate how Graves is played in like 40% of all ranked games: http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves#statistics learn another ADC people!
I feel that Tristana has a distinct disadvantage vs Graves. That may have played a role.
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On July 27 2012 11:15 YouGotNothin wrote:I do always wonder why trist isn't played more. Sure she gets outshined by a few other AD carries (Graves, maybe Kog and Vayne). But she is so super safe late game with ultra range, a jump, and a peel. With the current meta of "keep AD alive late game and win" you would think this would make her more common. Maybe I am just biased, but I also hate how Graves is played in like 40% of all ranked games: http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves#statistics learn another ADC people!
Trist is easily one of the strongest late game AD carries (only Kog and Vayne match up to her imo). She's not played because her mid-game is the weakest out of all the AD carries by far. Once you can no longer burst someone with your WER+auto combo and/or when the enemy team can easily 1 or 2 shot you at close range, Trist becomes 100% reliant on her items to do damage while offering almost nothing from her skills. All other AD carries offer something throughout the whole game; Trist's midgame is just laughably weak. Unless you can get really fed off of her strong early game and/or your team can afford to have a weak AD carry in the mid game, she's just not as good as other AD carries.
Graves is played a ton because he's the most versatile. Strong aoe nuke, good sustained damage w/ a strong steroid that also doubles as a mobility spell, good utility with smoke, and naturally tankier than other AD carries due to passive.
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On July 27 2012 11:24 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:15 YouGotNothin wrote:I do always wonder why trist isn't played more. Sure she gets outshined by a few other AD carries (Graves, maybe Kog and Vayne). But she is so super safe late game with ultra range, a jump, and a peel. With the current meta of "keep AD alive late game and win" you would think this would make her more common. Maybe I am just biased, but I also hate how Graves is played in like 40% of all ranked games: http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves#statistics learn another ADC people! I feel that Tristana has a distinct disadvantage vs Graves. That may have played a role.
You just harass him with your superior range and auto->e if he tries to poke with q. He'll lose every trade. If he overextends and blows his CD's (ie dash->q) you just all-in him. Heal/ignite almost guarantees you will win an all-in scenario (flash is cool too).
I haven't lost lane as trist yet, even when rushing phage for teh lulz. Get fed earlygame so you can skip to lategame.
Edit: am up for some 1v1 tommorrow
2nd edit: graves is noob friendly (forgiving). That is why he is picked often by people like Destiny. Trist's lack of free resists and burst damage that requires gap closing is a bit less forgiving if misused. Also graves smoke lol
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to avoid this mid-game slump I almost always play trist with my friend supporting in a duo queue. He goes some kind of aggressive support like blitz or alistar and I really can't help but get fed. You get huge opportunities at level 2 and 6 to basically instakill their adc. My personal favorite support with trist is Nautilus, that shit is legit, try it, seriously.
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Yea if you can get lots of early kills or get far enough ahead of the enemy AD carry you can offset Trist's weak midgame. The problem is that in high level play, getting that ahead in lane isn't a reliable strategy, hence Trist's low popularity in competitive play. If AD carry solo lanes ever become the norm again I can definitely see Trist bouncing back in popularity since her early game laning is so strong.
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^mid trist is real terror
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I think tristana is a lot stronger after the recent buff. Strangely I haven't been having as many mana issues. That little decrease in mana cost has been the difference in me having one more or one less ability to get a kill or die. Tristana does have more range than she used to as well.
I was maxing E today with a sona against graves taric. I didn't want to max W because graves and taric are bursty so there is less opportunity to jump in. In no small part, thanks to sona we were able to sustain and outpoke taric graves. It did help that taric just seemed to spam his stun on cooldown.
I maxed E because most supports expect tristana to have burst. It feels so weak in the midgame compared to Q though.
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E + 1 or 2 auto's is almost like a real poke now, still have no idea what an optimal skill order is since nothing scales with ad and Q is such a powerful steroid, but it's a legit QoL improvement
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I think the QoL changes on her E didn't change that much. Her range is still abysmally short for trading, because most other ADCs have at least one skill that has longer reach than her auto range (e.g. Ashe W, Cait Q, etc.). She still needs to W in to trade, I feel.
It did give her an upper hand against some specific match ups though. She can trade with Vayne a lot easier. She can probably do the same to MF.
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On October 31 2012 13:46 chalice wrote:
E + 1 or 2 auto's is almost like a real poke now, still have no idea what an optimal skill order is since nothing scales with ad and Q is such a powerful steroid, but it's a legit QoL improvement
I've seen people use things such as W/E alternating(getting r obv) when e or w is maxed, ignore the one you didnt max and go straight for Q max right after.
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On October 31 2012 15:12 Sufficiency wrote:
I think the QoL changes on her E didn't change that much. Her range is still abysmally short for trading, because most other ADCs have at least one skill that has longer reach than her auto range (e.g. Ashe W, Cait Q, etc.). She still needs to W in to trade, I feel.
It did give her an upper hand against some specific match ups though. She can trade with Vayne a lot easier. She can probably do the same to MF.
yeah against cait and ashe it really doesn't do much, but against the shorter attack range ADs it lets you poke a bit to set up kills post 6 nicely
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Tristana was my first try at AD carry (because i unlocked her with some facebook thing) and i still really like her. 90% of the time i go bottom lane (AD or support) and it was nice to see lots of tristana these past few days....
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i dont know.. in my oppinion she is a terribly designed hero. Her skills just dont have any synergies, I dont know what the designer were thinking when creating her.
Her passive... yeah well. That she doesnt have the additional range from the get go makes her less viable against ad carries who outrange her.
Q is a sick steroid, so you wanna play her as adc. But then she offers no additional damage-on-hit like Varus, twitch or mf which sucks.
W is a nice gap closer/escape spell. But when to use it? On a solo lane you would have to instakill with the said w-e-r-q-ignite combo and even then you would still have to outburst the opponent which is not easy against someone with a hard cc like cho or an escape spell like ez. In team fights it's totally useless because you got the R to peel of bruisers. And it scales with AP, so it doesnt get any better late game.
E active is a mediocre nuke which also scales with AP, so if you play her as an adc it doesnt get better. The reduced healing is nice, but other adc like varus offer that as well.
E passive is a nice farming spell which might have a bit of an effect in team fights as well (although I'm sure its better to attack the heros directly t.t). But that you cant turn it off (like Cho's E) makes last hitting much harder. Combine that with her abysmal base damage and you have an adc which makes it really hard to last hit properly.
And R is also an AP scaling damage spell. Nice to peel off bruisers or for the early game combo, but the usefulness is also very limited compared to say Ashes arrow/dravens, ezreals ulti.
So, you have a squishy, low ranged adc with ridiculous low base damage, a sick steroid but not a single ad scaling spell, an initation spell thats basically just an escape tool, and an ultimate that you use to peel of bruisers. Who designes something like that?
If her E passive would give her bonus armor/health per minion kill for a short duration so you can 1on1 better, if one of her spells would scale with AD as well as AP (like sivirs Q), if the w had a weak cc instead of a slow then she would certainly be more viable. As it is, she is just terrible designed and offers nothing but the Q and auto attack damage.
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I think her kit is very well-designed, actually.
It goes together to make her strong early and late, but useless midgame, which is a good powercurve for an adc toi have.
You bring up things like that the W AP scaling makes it useless lategame, which is a nonsensical point, because you don't WANT to use it for damage, but for positioning by then.
etcetc
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I think this has been talked about before a lot. I think it's just that when looking at champ design today, you would never have something like this. There doesn't seem to be much synergy between her spells at all even though it comes together in the end by nature of burst transitioning into safety. I don't know if this would mean she's terribly designed or extremely well designed, but she is fairly unique.
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Terribly designed, just how? She has a knockback, a jump, an attack speed steroid, a dot which is incredibly strong versus sustain-bruisers. The only sad part about tristana is that she sucks so badly during mid-game, but just play her with nunu. It's like nunu/cait just better.
Also Djin, how can u compare her to 3 ADC's without an escape spell (twitch has stealth, but it's not the same).
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I wouldn't think putting an AD ratio on her E and/or R would be too bad of an idea - the damage on them is pretty much ignorable late game currently. At some point you actively stop wanting to ever cast E except as a healing debuff because it's a DPS loss - even though it's outside the attack speed animation.
Other than that, I don't see how a kit which has +Range passive (best ADC passive in the game, arguably), Self-Peel, Repositioning, a straight up point-and-click nuke which autocancels rather well, and an AS steroid amounts to "Terrible Synergy"
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EPT
