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On April 09 2012 05:07 Juddas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:19 Navi wrote:
tristana's 6 item lategame is probably the best hands down
vayne has comparable damage and more maneuverability in a short range
but against the vast majority of teams, tristana's more effective self peel and extreme range allow her unparalleled damage output as she can constantly be attacking with minimal spell usage
she has a very strong level 6, but has a large drought in her midgame strength (whereas many other champions have strong steroids or relatively low risk low cd spells that can be used for poke, trist's kit is only good for hard engagements and using her rocket jump to utilize its damage fully is often suicidal early in fights) where many common ADs these days do not. I think I might disagree with you on that. I have always felt that the scariest 6-item AD carry is Ashe by far. She has a great initiate, reliable AOE damage with CC, CC, more CC, and a nice little scout. You can always avoid trist but if an Ashe has her ult up she will get close enough o you that you wont ever get away
6-item carries will have QSS or BV which can reduce or nullify her initiate (plus Sivir can shield and Vayne can tumble, sadly you can be hit as Trist if you jump). Also, Trist will be safer against Ashe because of her range (Kog has that too) and escapes. Trist will also be close to the AS cap with a standard AD full build and Q. I think Trist would poop on Ashe in a direct comparison, but your respective team comps will decide the outcome and their reaction to a thrown arrow.
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On April 09 2012 05:07 Juddas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:19 Navi wrote:
tristana's 6 item lategame is probably the best hands down
vayne has comparable damage and more maneuverability in a short range
but against the vast majority of teams, tristana's more effective self peel and extreme range allow her unparalleled damage output as she can constantly be attacking with minimal spell usage
she has a very strong level 6, but has a large drought in her midgame strength (whereas many other champions have strong steroids or relatively low risk low cd spells that can be used for poke, trist's kit is only good for hard engagements and using her rocket jump to utilize its damage fully is often suicidal early in fights) where many common ADs these days do not. I think I might disagree with you on that. I have always felt that the scariest 6-item AD carry is Ashe by far. She has a great initiate, reliable AOE damage with CC, CC, more CC, and a nice little scout. You can always avoid trist but if an Ashe has her ult up she will get close enough o you that you wont ever get away
I feel like Trist is only a bit behind Ashe. Give Trist red buff when she has PD, green elixir, a maxed Q, and some other AS steroid like a Zekes, Blood Boil, or Hunter's Call (?), and if she catches someone, he/she is either dead or on the way back to base.
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^ This is also true... You raise a good point. Another thing about ashe though is that she nullifies most bruisers late game. She can just permaslow them from reaching her, and I think this is one drawback of trist.
Maybe this belongs in GD though
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On April 09 2012 07:02 Juddas wrote:
^ This is also true... You raise a good point. Another thing about ashe though is that she nullifies most bruisers late game. She can just permaslow them from reaching her, and I think this is one drawback of trist.
Maybe this belongs in GD though
I also believe Trist has a leg up in this area as well. If a very well placed Buster Shot occurs, the rest of the team can just hundred to zero the victim.
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i am of the opinion that 6 item trist is the one of if the the strongest 6 item champ. she has great dps and incredibly hard to get to especially with red buff. she also is the best at pushing down towers in stand offs and clears waves like a beast. when i get to 5 or 6 item trist i feel like i always win unless my team just insta dies.
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On April 09 2012 05:07 Juddas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 04:19 Navi wrote:
tristana's 6 item lategame is probably the best hands down
vayne has comparable damage and more maneuverability in a short range
but against the vast majority of teams, tristana's more effective self peel and extreme range allow her unparalleled damage output as she can constantly be attacking with minimal spell usage
she has a very strong level 6, but has a large drought in her midgame strength (whereas many other champions have strong steroids or relatively low risk low cd spells that can be used for poke, trist's kit is only good for hard engagements and using her rocket jump to utilize its damage fully is often suicidal early in fights) where many common ADs these days do not. I think I might disagree with you on that. I have always felt that the scariest 6-item AD carry is Ashe by far. She has a great initiate, reliable AOE damage with CC, CC, more CC, and a nice little scout. You can always avoid trist but if an Ashe has her ult up she will get close enough o you that you wont ever get away
Both of you guys are mistaken. Late game 6 item Vayne is the best. "Vayne has comparable damage"? Are you kidding me? Vayne has the highest ranged AD carry damage late game.
If we're just talking about pure DPS:
Trist has 1 attack speed steroid
Ashe has a small crit steroid
Vayne has Tumble steroid, Ult gives AD steroid, Silver bolts gives true damage based on % health, and her scaling is quite good. The scary thing is, all of her steroids work together to complement one another...meaning if you can get a crit off with all these, she can melt tanks in few shots.
You might argue that Trist's long range can let her get more "free" shots, thus adding to DPS.
Well, Vayne's stealth lets her get more "free" shots, thus adding to DPS.
Ashe is by far the weakest of the three in terms of pure DPS output. However, she brings a lot of utility to the team, and can initiate though.
The thing is, teams don't really need AD carrys to initiate and bring utility to the table. We have supports and tanks for that. AD carrys are simply expected to dish out raw damage..which Vayne excels in doing. As long as you have a competent team that protects AD carrys well, late game Vayne is much much much more preferrable to Trist/Ashe.
The only flaw about Vayne is about her weak early game laning phase.
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On April 09 2012 16:39 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 05:07 Juddas wrote:On April 09 2012 04:19 Navi wrote:
tristana's 6 item lategame is probably the best hands down
vayne has comparable damage and more maneuverability in a short range
but against the vast majority of teams, tristana's more effective self peel and extreme range allow her unparalleled damage output as she can constantly be attacking with minimal spell usage
she has a very strong level 6, but has a large drought in her midgame strength (whereas many other champions have strong steroids or relatively low risk low cd spells that can be used for poke, trist's kit is only good for hard engagements and using her rocket jump to utilize its damage fully is often suicidal early in fights) where many common ADs these days do not. I think I might disagree with you on that. I have always felt that the scariest 6-item AD carry is Ashe by far. She has a great initiate, reliable AOE damage with CC, CC, more CC, and a nice little scout. You can always avoid trist but if an Ashe has her ult up she will get close enough o you that you wont ever get away Both of you guys are mistaken. Late game 6 item Vayne is the best. "Vayne has comparable damage"? Are you kidding me? Vayne has the highest ranged AD carry damage late game. If we're just talking about pure DPS: Trist has 1 attack speed steroid Ashe has a small crit steroid Vayne has Tumble steroid, Ult gives AD steroid, Silver bolts gives true damage based on % health, and her scaling is quite good. The scary thing is, all of her steroids work together to complement one another...meaning if you can get a crit off with all these, she can melt tanks in few shots. You might argue that Trist's long range can let her get more "free" shots, thus adding to DPS. Well, Vayne's stealth lets her get more "free" shots, thus adding to DPS. Ashe is by far the weakest of the three in terms of pure DPS output. However, she brings a lot of utility to the team, and can initiate though. The thing is, teams don't really need AD carrys to initiate and bring utility to the table. We have supports and tanks for that. AD carrys are simply expected to dish out raw damage..which Vayne excels in doing. As long as you have a competent team that protects AD carrys well, late game Vayne is much much much more preferrable to Trist/Ashe. The only flaw about Vayne is about her weak early game laning phase.
I think alot of people have said late game Trist has the highest DPS in the game, Kog is right after iirc
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Twitch and Kog'maw does more damage than both vayne and tristana.
However, between vayne and tristana:
You can't neglate range when you measure DPS. Vayne is 550 range, and Tristana have 703 range at level 18. It's difficult to compare their damage output in a teamfight. If they are at melee range, then vayne does more damage because her steroid is more bursty.
Edit: just saw that thread by doublelift on trist and kog. I was wrong, tristana does more damage than Kog with 6 items.
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Tristana is easily the best 6-item carry in the game.
She has 1 escape and 1 peel.
In the late game scenario where surviving becomes the #1 priority, tristana is easily the best.
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I'm not really sold on Trist > Kog lategame. She has a lot going for her, but so does Kog. He has a bunch of free damage and his ult is quite capable of being problematic for the opposing team due to his AD ratio on it. They do different things and are more effective in different scenarios IMO.
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I did some math with 6 items, no runes, no masteries, no pots: ( lol, I forgot to take into account zerkers, but even if I look account of the zerker att speed, it would only help Kog who have higher base attack speed and on hit effect)
The 6 items are : LW + Phandom dancer + IE + BT +boots+ qss
Tristana with her Q in 7 seconds does about 13.5 auto attacks and Kog Maw does about 10.5 auto attacks.
3 auto attack aproximately equal to 1800 physical damage (taken account crits and everything). However, Kog Maw does 80% hp magic damage with 10 auto attacks. It seems their damage in just auto attacking is comparable.
That's not including kog's ults
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Canada11384 Posts
Finally a Tristana guide on TL. I'm pretty terrible and surviving in team fights with her though.
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I pretty much go dorans -> dorans -> zerkers -> IE -> PD -> vampiric sceptor -> LW -> BT every game with tristana, can somebody give me a breakdown of what I should get for my 6th item and in which circumstances?
(I'm relatively new, not level 30 yet, so keep that in mind)
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On April 11 2012 06:32 Mogwai wrote:
I'm not really sold on Trist > Kog lategame. She has a lot going for her, but so does Kog. He has a bunch of free damage and his ult is quite capable of being problematic for the opposing team due to his AD ratio on it. They do different things and are more effective in different scenarios IMO.
Trist has a lot more mobility to actually get off her damage consitently & safely though, especially once people start dying.
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Get a GA in cases where you want a slot efficient item that's forgiving in case you die in a teamfight while your allies are around. QSS is more cost efficient for stopping crap like veigar stun, WW suppress, ashe stun, malzahar suppress, skarner ult and all the other CC in the game. Warmogs also gives you a lot more room for error and removes a lot of the potential for people to one shot you (fricking veigar). BV blocks a spell, gives life, and MR.
The above is really all theory but in game I feel a lot better with GA than I do with other items.
GA=guardian angel
QSS=Quicksilver sash
WW=Warwick
BV=Banshee's veil
CC=Crowd Control
MR=Magic Resist
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On April 12 2012 05:04 Complete wrote:
I pretty much go dorans -> dorans -> zerkers -> IE -> PD -> vampiric sceptor -> LW -> BT every game with tristana, can somebody give me a breakdown of what I should get for my 6th item and in which circumstances?
(I'm relatively new, not level 30 yet, so keep that in mind)
Sometimes it's better to get a vamp scepter along with your BF sword before finishing your IE. The sustain is very useful.
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When I play tristana, I somehow find myself doing absolutely no damage mid game against bruisers. The late game is enormous but the team usually cant carry me.
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Maxing Q makes you stronger midgame than maxing W/E.
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On April 12 2012 10:37 Strykemard wrote:
When I play tristana, I somehow find myself doing absolutely no damage mid game against bruisers. The late game is enormous but the team usually cant carry me.
Thats Tristana for you XD
Great early game burst with Rocket Jump/Explosive Shot/Ignite, slow mid game because you're just starting to build up your core items and high armor brusiers are super effective here(pre Last Whisper), and arguably the best traditional 6 item Ranged Carry late game with that INSANE range/AS
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EPT
