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A few questions for SmashGizmo (all for jungle WW):
-Last edit on OP is from 23rd of August, so I'm just asking to know if you still do the same things: 21/0/9? OP Runes?
-Wriggles, you say in your OP that you prefer to leave it as Razor and rush Wit's End, but now it seems everyone goes Wriggles. What has changed? IMO its a 600 gold investment (and delay of other items) that allows you to lifesteal better, but doesnt make you hit harder or really survive that better in early teamfights, where autoattacks are not as important as later on.
-When fed, lets say you have Razor, Mercs, SV, Wits End and GA, next item Bloodrazor or Triforce? (Reread OP, answered there.)
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United States47024 Posts
On Wriggles:
600 gold for 7 armor, 8 AD, 18% lifesteal, 5% Madred's proc chance, and ward. Even if you consider the lifesteal to be minimally useful, the gold efficiency isn't bad. It's not amazing, but you're getting like 400 gold worth of armor + AD, plus all the secondary utility stuff. The only reason to keep Razors is if you feel you're realistically going to finish Bloodrazor at a point in the game where it'll still matter.
IIRC Lapaka and SV have been buying Wriggle's on WW for at least the last 6 months, and I remember Dan Dinh doing it almost a year ago. It's not a recent change in how people play WW at all.
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IMO the wriggles choice depends a lot on how you are going to play out the rest of the game.
Need MR? Leave the madreds and get Wits End.
Need Damage? Leave the madreds, build intermediate defense, then finish Madreds Razor.
Need Armor? Build Wriggles.
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On November 09 2011 09:22 Two_DoWn wrote:
IMO the wriggles choice depends a lot on how you are going to play out the rest of the game.
Need MR? Leave the madreds and get Wits End.
Need Damage? Leave the madreds, build intermediate defense, then finish Madreds Razor.
Need Armor? Build Wriggles.
nah, wriggles is pretty mandatory for jungle speed and control and since everyone auto attacks, armor and lifesteal are always good especially on someone who likes to be at the center of a fight. unless the opposing team is 5 AP or something your thought process should be
am i playing warwick? wriggles.
am i playing warwick and fed unbelievably hard somehow? rush a big item like wit's and finish wriggles later
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Wriggles is mandatory IMO. I wouldn't build ww any other way now. Being tanky is a huge part of jungling now and it's why Yi's fallen off.
Not saying it gives you more tankiness, just saying it lets you build other tank items faster.
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On November 09 2011 08:20 -Kato- wrote:
A few questions for SmashGizmo (all for jungle WW):
-Last edit on OP is from 23rd of August, so I'm just asking to know if you still do the same things: 21/0/9? OP Runes?
-Wriggles, you say in your OP that you prefer to leave it as Razor and rush Wit's End, but now it seems everyone goes Wriggles. What has changed? IMO its a 600 gold investment (and delay of other items) that allows you to lifesteal better, but doesnt make you hit harder or really survive that better in early teamfights, where autoattacks are not as important as later on.
-When fed, lets say you have Razor, Mercs, SV, Wits End and GA, next item Bloodrazor or Triforce? (Reread OP, answered there.)
Same runes and masteries except I've taken 3 out of attack speed mastery and put 3 into crit damage mastery. Reason below.
I always go wriggle's now. The reason is that I realized that bloodrazor basically sucks donkey dick and that I'd literally always rather have wriggle's + wit's end + triforce as my offensive core. It just gives better utility and honestly seems to do a lot more damage in realistic scenarios. And with that said, I now build enough crit to be cool with crit damage > AS masteries.
I'd never really end up with that build these days because I'd basically always have wriggles + phage + wit's end + GA @ that point instead. And I'd always go triforce. Goddamn yo, bloodrazor sucks, I should edit the OP soon.
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Still going Wriggle's first (in most situations) after patch change 18% ->15% lifesteal?
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probably. Its stats are still stupidly high.
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As if warwick is going to seriously miss 3% lifesteal. It hurts every jungler who uses it more.
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What's the consensus on WW post-patch? I'm thinking 21/9/0 would be pretty standard, with 5 points split between armor/MR/hp in the defense tree as you see fit:
http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-2-4-4-0-0-1-1-2-0-0-0-3-0-1-1-0-3-2-2-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
With the standard arpen+AS reds+quints, armor yellow, and AS (or MR) blue. It seems like every other jungler is becoming much stronger, and so Bladed Armor is necessary to keep up (for wolves+wraiths bottlenecks). With a decent pull on wolves WW should be able to clear all 3 wolves before blue now, instead of just 1-2 like before. I'm guessing Havoc/Executioner works on both R and Q, but i'm not 100% sure on Q.
Only thing I'm not sure about is whether 0.5% damage (3rd point in havoc) is better than 2 minion damage (2nd point in butcher). Havoc seems pretty weak; 0.5% damage on your mid/late game R (~900 damage with Wit's End, before resistances) is only 4.5 total damage, compared to 2 extra minion damage on every swing that helps with your clear time.
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United States47024 Posts
One thing to note is that with the XP buff to jungle monsters, the XP mastery fills in the effect of what XP quints used to do, and lets you hit 6 1 camp sooner on rush-6 paths (minis->wraiths->wolves->blue->etc.). Not that useful for normal paths, but worth considering with defensive rush-6 paths.
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I'm wondering about a Off/Def Hybrid like 14/15.
Edit: Thought more about it.
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On November 16 2011 06:59 TheYango wrote:
One thing to note is that with the XP buff to jungle monsters, the XP mastery fills in the effect of what XP quints used to do, and lets you hit 6 1 camp sooner on rush-6 paths (minis->wraiths->wolves->blue->etc.). Not that useful for normal paths, but worth considering with defensive rush-6 paths.
mr. mathcraft you should check to see how fast exp quints, exp util, zilean passive, and the new camp exp gets you to 6! could be very interesting with ww and other level 6 gankers
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From reddit the new exp values. These may have changed already based on some Shaco players complaining that Wraith + Golems + Red isn't enough for level 3.
SMALL WOLF: 55 (+5) BIG WOLF: 101 (+11)
SMALL WRAITH: 20 (unchanged) BIG WRAITH: 121 (+1)
SMALL GOLEM: 141 (+1)
BLUE GOLEM: 221 (+1)
SMALL LIZARD: 30 (unchanged)
RED LIZARD: 201 (+1)
Right now the first two passes (small camps + blue, small camps + red) garner 1890 exp. Here's the exp you'll get with various mastery/rune/Zilean combinations and what camps it'll subsequently take to hit 6.
Awareness: 1984.5 (Mini-golems + Wolves, Wraiths don't give enough)
Quints: 2003.4 (Mini-golems + Wolves, Wraiths still don't give enough)
Zilean: 2041.2 (Mini-golems + either Wolves or Wraiths)
Awareness + Quints: 2097.9 (any two small camps)
Awareness + Quints + Zilean: 2249.1 (Mini-Golems or Wolves)
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So is anyone playing lanewick anymore or is just me? He feels so bloody good against common top laners atm.
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On December 30 2011 23:16 Sponkz wrote:
So is anyone playing lanewick anymore or is just me? He feels so bloody good against common top laners atm.
He's just hard to move off lane, but i think he can get fairly out farmed by a decent solo top riven, or nasus.
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On December 30 2011 23:16 Sponkz wrote:
So is anyone playing lanewick anymore or is just me? He feels so bloody good against common top laners atm.
Picked him up after looking for a top laner that was neither AP nor fotm. The only matchup I'm REALLY struggling with at the moment is Riven, rest is pretty cake. CDRWick is soooo good. Also, if you manage to magically push your lane, he is one of the best top laners to gank mid, and I really like that about him. It helps a lot in solo Q.
On December 31 2011 01:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 23:16 Sponkz wrote:
So is anyone playing lanewick anymore or is just me? He feels so bloody good against common top laners atm. He's just hard to move off lane, but i think he can get fairly out farmed by a decent solo top riven, or nasus.
I don't see him getting outfarmed, granted you are good. Yes, farming on him is a pain, but he's insanely hard to zone. Riven might accomplish that, I don't see Nasus ever coming close to outfarming you. You can literally just stand in his creeps and lasthit them. He might outscale you, but that's a whole different story.
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So yeah i've been playing a few rankeds again with him. Currently 6-1, and i feel he's really that utility bot i enjoy.
Mpen reds, hp5 quints, arm seals, flat mres glyphs. flash/ignite
I basicly took the masteries smash recommended for jungle. 23/6/1 with 3/3 in hardiness and resistance in defense. Not quite sure yet if 0/21/9 or 9/21/0 is better, i feel like i have more impact in team fights with those masteries, dealing more damage.
Against ap: Boots+3hpots/null+2hpots -> Chalice -> SV -> Glacial -> Wits, with mercs
Against ad: Cloth5 -> Wriggles -> Chain vest -> Wit's end -> Frozen, with mercs aswell.
I feel like if you need something like reverie or starks you can pick it up later on in the game i don't find a philo rush early that useful, but will try out some more.
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I don't like warwick anywhere right now tbh. He doesn't feel that great top lane and his jungling got pretty badly hit with his quick-6 path time going up by like 1-2 minutes.
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EPT
