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On July 01 2014 16:54 zer0das wrote: I never said completely neglect E. I said level Q/W evenly.
So you are saying you want to focus all 3 non-ultimate skills more or less evenly. This is really bad. If you think otherwise, you need to play the game more.
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On July 01 2014 23:43 iCanada wrote: TL LoL, what is your ideal WW composition?
I dunno, I like playing the champion, but I think a Xin Zhao does everything WW does but better at this stage of the game, especially if the Xin manages to get a Feral Flare by the 20 minute mark. Cait Jax Yasuo Thresh imo
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On July 02 2014 01:43 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 16:54 zer0das wrote: I never said completely neglect E. I said level Q/W evenly. So you are saying you want to focus all 3 non-ultimate skills more or less evenly. This is really bad. If you think otherwise, you need to play the game more. Just lost
But no, not necessarily. Min/maxing is correct, but leveling each skill as needed for different parts of the game is a form of short-term min/maxing. Kinda like how Yasuo gets two points in E before maxing Q in mid for the damage spike. Or how Leona wants equal levels of Q and E for cooldown purposes after maxing W.
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I think a team comp with Warwick that would be ideal includes Jinx. She can really abuse your attack speed buff to shred turrets, and the ult can be used as an burst in a team fight, and its impossible to miss against the target if they're suppressed (though it can be body blocked).
I think something like Jinx, Gangplank, Janna, Lulu would be a really good Warwick team comp. Gangplank blows now granted, but if you're just thinking about pushing down early turrets while being obnoxious about making fights unfair due to speed/kiting if anyone shows up, then it sounds pretty good on paper. A slightly more realistic combo would probably be Trundle for your top and Lux for mid. Warwick/Lux is pretty close to a guaranteed kill every time you come mid if they keep up on farm, and really makes it much easier to survive in the middle of the enemy team for long periods of time. Trundle is king if he has a large attack speed buff for free on top of what he already has, and he's excellent for forcing positional mistakes with pillar.
So maybe something like:
Trundle/Lux/Jinx/Lulu
with perhaps substituting Leona for Lulu. I also think Kennen+Warwick is actually pretty good because Kennen's burst is nothing to sneeze at if he hits everything, and with a stationary target that's really flipping easy (the one time I had a Warwick on my team, I was absolute skewering people as Kennen). Also provides a good peel for the Jinx on top of whatever support you're running.
Possibly replace Ori for Lux.
Oo, here's a good one:
Trundle/Ori/Vayne/Nami- had a team pretty similar to this, the amount of threat generated by Warwick and Trundle, and damage absorbed is insane, so Vayne can essentially do whatever the hell she pleases.
Warning, large wall of text about clear speed: + Show Spoiler +9 minutes is so early into the game I don't think there's not going to be a perceptible difference. If you skill your stuff realistically (two points in whatever you're maxing, 1 point in the other skills, point spent in ult) that's like enough time for 3 points in your main skill depending on exactly where you end?
Focusing on w and not taking second blue buff, the main limitation was the time spent walking between creep camps. I hit around 48 creeps at 9 minutes with 21/9/0 masteries (and was ~2 seconds from getting the little golems at red), but I think the paths you take matter more than what you spec...--
With a focus on q I cleared 46 creeps (again, walking between camps was the main time limiter), but if put substantial levels in q first you can do one full clear, using q once at each camp before you're essentially out of mana. That freaking sucks. The difference between max q and w would be a lot more evident in the next 6-10 minutes, I think.
When you recall matters a lot too, because I was able to finish wriggles with max q due to having to recall more frequently for mana reasons, whereas I was still on razor when I focused on w (strictly because I hadn't recalled twice) because mana is not a limitation if you use q sparingly. I guess you could use q sparingly too if you focused on q, but that seems self defeating for clear speed purposes.
Also, I tried it with movement speed quints and still 21/9/0, and only got 40 creeps cleared with the focus on q at 9 minutes. It was still ~46 creeps with the focus on w at 9 minutes. I think the reason for that is if you go move speed quints while maxing q, you arrive at camps faster but you don't have the 2 second reduction from extra points in w, so its largely wasted because you have to decide whether to hold onto it for the next camp (wasteful) or use it at the present camp and encounter the same problem at the next camp (extremely wasteful). If you put levels in w, the problem is much less pronounced. Movespeed quints while maxing q felt absolutely god awful by feel too, so I wouldn't really recommend anyone do this.
I tried to a full clear at 13 minutes starting at blue buff (with movespeed quints) just to see how the two compared, but an interesting thing happened: with q max I couldn't shove waves fast enough to get to level 9 by 13 minutes (was leeching exp to hit a certain exp threshold and have the entire jungle there). Part of that is random because I don't directly control how big the wave is when I get there, but I thought this was interesting because of how excruciating it was to actually clear a lot of purple minions if I cared about speed.
For the level 9, 13 minute full clear (which is completely arbitrary) I hit 1:26 with w max and 2 points in q (with just wriggles and boots) and I screwed up the q max test because of the experience problem threw off my time and distracted me enough I accidentally put an extra point in w. 4 points in q and 3 points in w cleared in 1:22 though. I suspect q max done right would be about 6-10 seconds slower than w max, if not more (because the whole w issue when you're running movespeed quints mentioned above).
I suppose the take home is, clear speed early is not affected too much by q or w max, nor mid-game if you have blue (unless you use sub-optimal runes), but if its mid-game and you don't have blue, w max has more staying power in the jungle (ie, you can sit and clear all day long, go use your mana to gank, come back, etc). Not really possible with Q max.
I still think a mix is best, because it mitigates a lot of the disadvantages of maxing one over the other. Chiefly mana problems and syncing your w with when you arrive at a jungle camp (or being close to that, at least). Along with health sustain vs sustained damage in team fights.
Edit:
I think putting 3-4 levels in q and w, a point in your ult, and two levels of e by 10 is a reasonable blueprint, then depending on whether you need to survive the initial burst/deal more initial burst or need more pushing/clearing power, decide whether to put points in q or w.
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With eve, lee, elise, panth, etc all having been nerfed over the last few cycles, and the change to machete cost hurting the first clears of sustainless junglers like wu and vi, WW got indirectly buffed imo. The proliferation of AP tops and double AP in the current meta is also amazing since wits synergizes both against the enemy double AP and for your double AP thanks to the mr and mr shred. My only wish is that they would revert the flare nerfs back to only needing 25 stacks, but still, overall its kind of a golden age for WW.
Although theres a new bug in the last patch that I keep running into where I ult someone and then cant use W or Q even though they show as being off cooldown, pretty annoying.
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Yep ww is in a decent spot right now. I don't start pink ward any more since you can't machete+pink+green any more I take machete + 2wards and get an early ward for my top so he doesn't get fucked at the usual lvl 3 gank. However the bug (which has been there since 4.12) makes him really damn hard to play, it just lost me a game... very frustrating.
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If you happened to be wanting to play warwick, do yourself a favour and don't. The bug that stops you from using Q or W after ult happens almost 100% of the time now.
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I've played him a few times this week and haven't noticed anything...
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I've noticed W not working sometimes for whatever reason, but not Q.
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does maxing Q, 2-3 points in E then W still seem like the optimal skill order for jungle WW?
also if you can only buy 2 defensive items with devourer + wits + botrk, is there any merit to buying frozen heart instead of randuin's as your armor item? normally i blindly prioritize health before i have 3k+ hp, but with warwick's built in sustain his effective hp seems significantly higher than his portrait number. 30 extra armor plus 20% cdr and a bunch of mana directly translating to more Q's (as long as you aren't bursted down) seems like it might make up for a lot of the 500hp you're missing.
finally, i assume spirit visage is standard for MR, but is it a good idea to sometimes buy banshee's instead if someone on the other team seems to be saving their hard CC for whenever you ult?
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i dont understand why some ppl love this champ..
your ganks are horrible pre-6, there are other junglers who are quite as tanky (J4, Sej, Amumu, Malph) and as fast as you (Eve) or both (Udyr), your damage is lackluster, and you provide very minimal utility to the team. Your clear speed gets beaten by good clearers (Udyr, Lee, Amumu)
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also devourer + skirmisher's smite + ult is basically a guaranteed point and click kill every 110/90/70 seconds, but yeah factoring in sustain his jungle clear is absolutely top tier.
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On November 24 2014 02:20 chalice wrote: does maxing Q, 2-3 points in E then W still seem like the optimal skill order for jungle WW?
also if you can only buy 2 defensive items with devourer + wits + botrk, is there any merit to buying frozen heart instead of randuin's as your armor item? normally i blindly prioritize health before i have 3k+ hp, but with warwick's built in sustain his effective hp seems significantly higher than his portrait number. 30 extra armor plus 20% cdr and a bunch of mana directly translating to more Q's (as long as you aren't bursted down) seems like it might make up for a lot of the 500hp you're missing.
finally, i assume spirit visage is standard for MR, but is it a good idea to sometimes buy banshee's instead if someone on the other team seems to be saving their hard CC for whenever you ult? devourer->wits->frozen heart->spirit visage is standard imo. I run 21/9 with 5% cdr blues and 5% cdr from masteries for max cdr with FH and SV
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On November 24 2014 10:09 chalice wrote: also devourer + skirmisher's smite + ult is basically a guaranteed point and click kill every 110/90/70 seconds, but yeah factoring in sustain his jungle clear is absolutely top tier. Yeah, that's like (60-)+(40+) true/magic damage on every swipe of his ult every time for very little gold. Did this get past Riot's balance team?
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and then you get wits + botrk and people still melt even as they get tankier.
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When I play WW in jungle I start with W (for a fast frog clear or an enemy buff steal). Then I prio R>Q>E>W and go for devourer, mobility boots, wits, botrk. Depending, whether we have a tanky character in our team I go into trinity/banshee's or frozen heart/banshee's. Runes are attack speed, flat armor, flat MR.
I feel I can really take out key players in the enemy team or peel enemies off our carriers. Only thing which is really annoying is a lot of CC, like Azir or mobility champs such as Rek'sai/Lee Sin.
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Hello, long time lurker on the forums.
I'm a Dia 1 NA, Dia 4 KR Warwick only player. If you guys want help on Warwick to climb ranked elo just shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to give some tips/guides.
Also I have a guide up here: http://www.lolking.net/guides/304925
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Netherlands4500 Posts
So I just found out Kennen can somehow cancel WW ult? Auto q e when u see WW coming at u? How does it work? I believe there is no mention of it in your guide.
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On March 20 2015 03:08 Peeano wrote: So I just found out Kennen can somehow cancel WW ult? Auto q e when u see WW coming at u? How does it work? I believe there is no mention of it in your guide. Warwick is not immune to CC while using his ultimate, it's a channel. Kennen get two stacks from auto and Q, then the last stack when Warwick jumps on him while E is active thus stunning Warwick the instant the channel start.
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