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On April 17 2013 09:26 Dark_Chill wrote:
I'm actually wondering whether Triforce->randuin is better than BotRK->Randuin. I find Tri to give more stats you like, but BotRK gives that awesome attack speed and active. I think it might actually come down to lane situation with no clear winner, as both are awesome.
I honestly don't like the triforce buildpath anymore. Phage was easily the best starting item for Irelia, and its price went up by 200g (13xx -> 15xx) - Bilgewater also gives you a slow, but gives you extremely relevant added sustain (it's SO HARD to push Irelia around once she has it.) You don't really need TONS of slow, just enough to keep on them after Equilibrium Strike wears off.
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both bortk and triforce have their merits. since wits end is no longer very good, i typically like to get bortk -> aegis against elise/rumble.
sunfire is also a strong first pickup versus champions like renekton/riven/garen and i also find that it gives you the edge in the cho'gath matchup.
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BORK -> Spirit Visage is also pretty good against rude magic damage champs, especially because it lets you build a lone negatron early.
Irelia also has the freedom to totally dick over Rumble / Elise with a Flat MR Glyph+Quint page (+24 MR at level 1)
If you're particuarly cheeky, toss in MR reds as well (keep the armor seals or use Scaling Health seals, IMO.)
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spirit visage is too selfish of an item on irelia, should opt for bulwark/radiun/locket to help out your team.
i dont think taking mr quints is necessary. outplaying the elise's stun is key to winning the matchup.
also i think AS reds are the most optimal on ire
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On April 17 2013 14:03 HesitatioN wrote:
spirit visage is too selfish of an item on irelia, should opt for bulwark/radiun/locket to help out your team.
i dont think taking mr quints is necessary. outplaying the elise's stun is key to winning the matchup.
also i think AS reds are the most optimal on ire
I think Spirit Visage gives Irelia everything she needs. The health/resists are self-explanatory, CDR is a good stat on any bruiser, and bonus heal works well with her W and R. I wouldn't buy bulwark and locket. The auras are good, but they work best on tanks, not on a bruiser-assassin.
But if you're doing well in lane, why buy visage when you can buy Wit's End? Even with the nerfs, I think it's still the best source of MR for Irelia. The stats on that item are way too good to pass up. Irelia needs an attack speed item, and unless you're buying Stinger, I'd always go for Wit's.
And yeah, I'd agree that attack speed is the best possible stat to have on Irelia.
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wits end is an extremely underwhelming 1st item on ire now, it doesn't provide enough stats to warrant a rush.blade outclasses wits end in every sense as an AS item for ire imo. players like megazero will typically stack 1-2 dorans -> vamp -> cutlass -> bortk to win lane vs ap. vs champions like elise and rumble, you are not opting to drag the fight out, you want to get in there and outplay their escape/peel, then kill them -> snowball -> rinse/repeat. you'll see that megazero plays the lane most correctly (all-in lvl 3~5 with redpot) in my opinion -- LCS match where he versus link's elise in week 7 or 8 i think.
you want bulwark if they go double ap for sure. raduins otherwise
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On March 18 2013 17:47 Gahlo wrote:
HP quints worth getting? I'm going to learn Irelia soon and they're a ton of IP. I have sets of MR and Armor quints, so I'm debating how worth it they are.
Irelia works well with nearly any set of reasonably justifiable bruiser rune page. Irelia is THAT flexible of a champion. Even if the meta doesn't work well for her (like S3 pre-BotRK, and even now where she's still so so), she's still a solid enough pick if you can actually play her properly. She just doesn't shit on certain matchups as hard anymore, which sucks hardcore.
On March 18 2013 18:43 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 18:25 clickrush wrote:
i think wickd used regen, ms regularly. In his guide he suggested Armor, MR, HP, and HPregen quints. When I looked him up on lolking he didn't even have regen or MS quints paged up.
His guide only suggested the marks (flat AD), seals (flat armor), and glyphs (flat MR). Quints can be nearly anything. Again, any justifiable rune page works on her. She is a flexible champion, and can be played as a full assassin, a bruiser, or a full tank. Not saying that all the different play styles are optimal, but if it works for you, you can easily find a way to make it happen.
On March 18 2013 20:26 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 17:47 Gahlo wrote:
HP quints worth getting? I'm going to learn Irelia soon and they're a ton of IP. I have sets of MR and Armor quints, so I'm debating how worth it they are. I consistently use armor and MR quints for tough lanes. (AD / Armor / MR / MR and AD / Armor / ScalingMR / Armor) I use AD over other things on these pages because the idea is that if its a disadvantaged lane, I could probably really benefit from wider last-hit windows - it's likely I'll be CSing under my tower or trying to snatch CS then back off before they can get aggressive on me. I used to use HP5 quints instead of Armor/MR quints if the lane were mixed damage harass, but I think just going with my default MS quint page is fine really. And yes, Warmogs is fine. Right now my builds tend to be BORK -> Randuins/Warmogs/Runic -> whatever (Triforce still good, more tank items are fine, etc) Blade of the ruined king is just exactly what Irelia wants. Pretty good amount of attack speed, current HP damage mixes well with her true damage (Stack HP? BORK does well. Resists? Hiten Style does well) and the active is great for sticking to someone between your first usage of EqStrike and your second. But warden's mail is still extremely effective against her - beware!
Warmogs as a third major item feels too quick... 4th or 5th would be best.
On March 18 2013 22:05 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2012 05:06 greggy wrote:this really seems like a specific counter build, because I can't see how 3ad outweighs 10% tenacity or 2.75% more life without some context behind this decision I run 1/21/8 myself pretty much all of the time. both of which are nigh on useless in the lane phase, while 3 helps during all the game. He's going purely for the lane phase. At 2k hp 2.75% more life is a little more than 50 hp which is about only 140 gold so if you get more cs from the laning phase its already worth it. (since you already have ~100 gold of ad)
Wickd's Irelia play shouldn't ever be cited unless he puts it down in a guide and says "this is what I feel is optimal", and even then, it's what HE feels is optimal. Keep in mind, his play-style could be the polar opposite of yours. Wickd is generally a very aggressive player when he has the opportunity. The masteries that are super strong for the laning phase stop at Block. The bonus 3 AD and 1.33% extra damage (not applied on W) is a nice bit of extra damage and CSing power. Is it necessary? Of course not! If you'd rather play a 100% defensive lane, you can run a page more heavily invested in defense. Is one or the other better for laning? As long as you pick up the major masteries and ignore the terrible ones, you should be fine either way.
I can't really say 1/21/8 is more optimal than 14/13/3 in S3. Irelia doesn't need to go that deep in the utility tree. Summoner cooldown reduction? Nearly useless on her. Extra mana per level? There are better things to invest in. Flash/TP mastery? Useless, but if you're running TP then maybe... And with TP, the extra cooldown reduction is nice... But I don't like running TP Irelia. I don't like running TP in general, but it's viable and for that situation, 8 utility isn't so bad, though you can get away with 7 utility. The recall mastery is much better than the Flash mastery, and even then you shouldn't really get it unless you have an extra point left over (which I sometimes do).
On April 15 2013 03:30 TheLastRaven wrote:
Can any high elo players comment on the state of Irelia right now? She's been my favorite champion since S2, but I've found it much harder to carry with her in S3. I've seen people in diamond going TF into GA or Zephyr, but it only seems to work when you're fed. Building resists isn't as good as it used to be, but at the same time HP items like Warmogs seem like a bad choice on Irelia. My question is, does her good kit make up for her bad itemization? Is it worth it to play Irelia as anything but a counterpick? Or should I just resort to playing other champions?
Irelia has fallen a far way down from her power during S2, but she's still plenty viable.
On April 17 2013 09:26 Dark_Chill wrote:
I'm actually wondering whether Triforce->randuin is better than BotRK->Randuin. I find Tri to give more stats you like, but BotRK gives that awesome attack speed and active. I think it might actually come down to lane situation with no clear winner, as both are awesome.
BotRK is better. Triforce is nice, but BotRK is cheaper, gives stronger laning power, and synergizes well with Irelia's kit (though goes a bit overboard with the sustain) while covering up her biggest weakness of the current meta: HP stacking. For this reason, I feel more compelled to get the 8% APen mastery. For second item, if you feel like you have the time to get Triforce, you will be a VERY strong force. Irelia's strongest timing is around when you finish your second major item, after which she starts to fall off.
Again, even if Wickd is the best Irelia player in the world, he should almost never be cited as evidence for one build being better than another (especially if he's doing it on stream in soloq). Wickd does a lot of trollish builds and often experiments with builds if he's not trolling. He used to go 21/4/3 and rush Black Cleaver (even after the nerf). He also went Sword of the Divine and even IE on Irelia. And he still wins consistently. Why? He's THAT damn good with Irelia. Give him a handicap, he will STILL stomp in soloq with her. Voyboy is probably a better person to learn Irelia builds from, because he explains his thought process to nearly every decision even if it gets repetitive, so you'll at least understand the thought process behind the item picks.
I've seen Irelia players go for builds that I heavily disagree with, but they still make it work because they know how to play Irelia and that playstyle is different from mine.
I've cycled through many Irelia builds (because of the stupid S3 transition), and they're all good. Some, less than others, but they all work. The build I hated using the most? Probably anything involving Zephyr, because it was so damn expensive and didn't give all the stats I wanted on Irelia for the money I spent. At the start of S3, I could get Sunfire or Warmogs with that money and be a laning beast. Now, I mostly can get a BotRK.
Irelia has no lane counterpicks, no matter what anyone says. Played properly, she can beat anyone in lane. However, she has champions that will outscale her (Jax and Nasus) or essentially make her useless in a teamfight (Malphite and Nasus). This just means you need to learn to shit on these kids even harder in lane to make them your bitch, so they don't mess with you in a teamfight.
My preference on Irelia is play her in any way except full assassin (though I've been practicing with assassin champions, Irelia feels more suited to being a bruiser unless she's fed to the point her normal burst can kill a carry in 1 combo anyway). I've also played her as a full tank and peeled for my ADC and/or dived the ADC.
All playing Irelia comes down to is mastering the use of her E and Q. Mastering her E is far more important. Against melees that try to come up to harass you (or CS), you want to stun, auto, and walk away. And you should always be looking to get resets with your Q to initiate as opposed to directly initiating (this allows you to Q as they run away and get out of your range). If you can properly use her E and Q, you can win ANY lane with her (granted, some will still be hard, but they boil down to practice and experience of what you can and can't do in each situation) almost regardless of what build you choose to use (some matchups are more demanding towards a specific style than others, which is probably why some people THINK Irelia has counterpicks, since they themselves don't play that style).
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On April 17 2013 20:14 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 18:43 Gahlo wrote:On March 18 2013 18:25 clickrush wrote:
i think wickd used regen, ms regularly. In his guide he suggested Armor, MR, HP, and HPregen quints. When I looked him up on lolking he didn't even have regen or MS quints paged up. His guide only suggested the marks (flat AD), seals (flat armor), and glyphs (flat MR). Quints can be nearly anything. Again, any justifiable rune page works on her. She is a flexible champion, and can be played as a full assassin, a bruiser, or a full tank. Not saying that all the different play styles are optimal, but if it works for you, you can easily find a way to make it happen.
You missed the Runes tab, he talks about quints in there.
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mastering irelia's R in lane is also very important for aggressive play; for example if you see an opportunity to fight when they burn a key spell or when there is a creep with low hp next to them but they have alot of creeps on their side, if you are able to fight and only hit them but the majority of the creeps with your R you will be able bait a fight that they think they have the advantage in but really dont.
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Thanks for the answers, RYLai. Makes sense.
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I just wish Zephyr was actually good. Tabi are so usefull in like 90% of your matchups, but blahhahh tenacity.
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zephyr is a strong item on irelia. tabi is not really a good item anymore because nobody starts boots, making it very expensive to buy on your 1st back.
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On April 18 2013 06:09 cLutZ wrote:
I just wish Zephyr was actually good. Tabi are so usefull in like 90% of your matchups, but blahhahh tenacity.
Zephyr is amazing, combine gives so any stats.
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On April 18 2013 13:40 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 06:09 cLutZ wrote:
I just wish Zephyr was actually good. Tabi are so usefull in like 90% of your matchups, but blahhahh tenacity. Zephyr is amazing, combine gives so any stats.
Zephyr good as maybe one of your last items. The only defensive stat it gives tenacity, which means you need health and resists for it to be useful. I don't find the cdr to be as valuable on Irelia as other champs, but you can never really complain about cdr anyways. The MS is always helpful as well.
While the item looks great, I just don't find it gives the kind of stats you want unless a) you're fed or b) you already have health/resists/other useful items.
Also, I don't see how Tabi is a bad item to get quickly. Having boots 2 compared to either no boots or boots 1 when you have tenacity is pretty damn good, and armor/reduced damage on autos is pretty amazing depending on the lane. I find that Irelia with just tanky stats early on in the game will get her through to mid game really well.
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BotRK is such a ridiculous item on Irelia. With it you can 1v1 anybody from burst assassins (kha/zed) because of the heal, tanks because of the %hp damage, and the W synergy too stronk. Except for Jax, cause Jax is just inherently stronger in 1v1 (is inherent the right word? innately?)
Although the one mistake I see every snowballed Irelia that gets BotRK make is this: building MORE damage after you get that. They think they are on top of the world, and then get blown up with a little bit of peel after diving balls deep on one of your carries because they get, idunno, a trinity or something afterwards. Maybe trinity works as a secondary damage item after a couple of defense items like randuins/sv (both of which I think are core on her now) because trinity is just boss on bruisers.
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On April 18 2013 13:52 Dusty wrote:
BotRK is such a ridiculous item on Irelia. With it you can 1v1 anybody from burst assassins (kha/zed) because of the heal, tanks because of the %hp damage, and the W synergy too stronk. Except for Jax, cause Jax is just inherently stronger in 1v1 (is inherent the right word? innately?)
Inherently is right.
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On April 18 2013 13:52 Dusty wrote:
BotRK is such a ridiculous item on Irelia. With it you can 1v1 anybody from burst assassins (kha/zed) because of the heal, tanks because of the %hp damage, and the W synergy too stronk. Except for Jax, cause Jax is just inherently stronger in 1v1 (is inherent the right word? innately?)
Although the one mistake I see every snowballed Irelia that gets BotRK make is this: building MORE damage after you get that. They think they are on top of the world, and then get blown up with a little bit of peel after diving balls deep on one of your carries because they get, idunno, a trinity or something afterwards. Maybe trinity works as a secondary damage item after a couple of defense items like randuins/sv (both of which I think are core on her now) because trinity is just boss on bruisers.
Would you say after a couple of defensive items Trinity is better than Zephyr? I've been wondering whether Zephyr should even be one of Irelia's "items to get" when Trinity offers pretty appealing stats as well.
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IMO triforce is better if you're farming well and/or picking up kills, but for any lane matchup that's difficult, giants belt+botrk is the way to go because it gives better laning stats.
I've toyed around with zephyr as a 5th/6th item, and stack it on top of a FH, it's pretty insane what 40% CDR irelia does, even to super mobile carries because you have Q on a sub 4s CD, with perma W and a 4.8 cd stun/slow. Absolutely incredible amounts of burst damage and stickiness.
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On April 18 2013 15:11 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 13:52 Dusty wrote:
BotRK is such a ridiculous item on Irelia. With it you can 1v1 anybody from burst assassins (kha/zed) because of the heal, tanks because of the %hp damage, and the W synergy too stronk. Except for Jax, cause Jax is just inherently stronger in 1v1 (is inherent the right word? innately?)
Although the one mistake I see every snowballed Irelia that gets BotRK make is this: building MORE damage after you get that. They think they are on top of the world, and then get blown up with a little bit of peel after diving balls deep on one of your carries because they get, idunno, a trinity or something afterwards. Maybe trinity works as a secondary damage item after a couple of defense items like randuins/sv (both of which I think are core on her now) because trinity is just boss on bruisers. Would you say after a couple of defensive items Trinity is better than Zephyr? I've been wondering whether Zephyr should even be one of Irelia's "items to get" when Trinity offers pretty appealing stats as well.
I think Zephyr is one of those really weird items that gives a weird mashup of stats. It's cost efficient if you need the tenacity but if you don't need it, I can't see why you wouldn't get botrk/trinity over it. But what do I know, I've seen it on Irelia maybe once and they were pretty weak so .-.'
although if you do what Amui said he likes to do and get CDR capped, you become a carry's worst nightmare.
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3889 gold worth of stats for 2850 gold... and the Tenacity isn't even included, it's not stats like regens or mana either. Zephyr is insanely cost-efficient, it's a monster of an item (Stinger already is super good), it's just that it's all offensive stats, and a little bit of each rather than lopsided like BT or PD, so it's better to compliment a primary damage item depending on what you need, or rounding up, than as a stand-alone.
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EPT
