I think what you mean is that you can i.e clear ranged creeps with 3 fast Q's if they're all low. It has nothing to do with AoE, it's just korean strats yo.

Duvon

Sweden2360 Posts

April 14 2014 18:20 GMT

#685

Yes, the intent of the first line was that Q can clear small monsters quickly, while the second line implies that it won't happen when it matter anyway. I blame tired posting.

Gahlo

United States35165 Posts

August 08 2014 04:43 GMT

#686

How the hell are you supposed to lane against Jax?

Complete

United States1864 Posts

August 08 2014 06:54 GMT

#687

Q away when he activates E, keep track of when it's up/down very closely. But yeah, it's hard.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

August 08 2014 10:09 GMT

#688

Onus is on you to outplay. To win, you have to dodge counterstrike with Q(with reset is preferable, but Q CD is better than getting wrecked), and then trade while it's down. Every time his counterstrike is up you cannot have Q on CD, because you'll lose the trade hard if he can just sit on you with counterstrike up. Don't activate hiten style while he has counterstrike available because he can waste half of it, and guarantee the trade win. You need to go for a kill once you hit 6, clearing the wave with ultimate doesn't help you at all because you get outscaled. It's not unwinnable, but it's a very, very hard matchup because if you can't outplay, you will lose lane without jungler help.

It is a winnable matchup even at the pro level, but if you watch how they win it, it's through weaving in and out of the creep wave very effectively to dodge stuns and forcing trades while counterstrike is down.

You need to snowball your lead into early objectives to get advantages. Irelia is stronger than jax in early-midgame fights against squishy targets due to the higher burst.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

August 08 2014 14:49 GMT

#689

Counterstrike is an 18 second cooldown, Equilibrium strike is 8 seconds. If you stun first you'll get 2-3 hits with W auto and you can try to reset q on creeps or just tank the stun while running to minimize auto damage. If he activates first you can stun him run if you time it right, it's a 1 second stun at rank 1 but him being away from melee range when he activates means he doesn't get any free damage until he gets it off unlike using it while fighting for 2 full seconds+stun of free damage.

Generally you don't fight when he has his passive stacked as well. Irelia is essentially a burst damage champ with a lot of healing so it's actually pretty effective, you can burst him down really low and then he can't do anything. Jax is an all-in champion but with some good harass if he wins that all-in with his W+3rd ult stack harass etc. He relies a lot on his passive and ult resists to win all-ins while irelia prefers to get the other guy low during that phase and then go in when jax's cds are down.

I can't remember playing it recently but at least with the jax nerfs I'm guessing Irelia has an advantage now.

Lord Tolkien

United States12083 Posts

August 09 2014 23:40 GMT

#690

Irelia does have a noticeable advantage in trades/all-ins pre-6 when Jax's ulti passive is unavailable, even moreso with the nerfs to Jax's base health (very noticeable indeed with how bursty Irelia functionally is). As above, time counterstrike's CD, as that's your window to initiate a trade, but you have excellent bullying potential against him pre-6, so you want to early-push the wave for the level advantage and lane dominance (just watch for jungle, because the followup from Jax will probably ensure a death with a gapclose/stun) and establish your lane from there (and hopefully kill him before/at 6).

You also do have more health sustain, so even "even trades" will slowly win you the lane before the first back. After the first back, depending on Jax's buys, attrition may or may not be viable (if he gets a Cutlass over Phage, which does leave him slightly more squishy for an all-in) and the matchup gets harder if you didn't establish an advantage early.

This remains at its core a skill matchup, though Jax does still outscaling Irelia a fuck-ton once you're like past the midgame and Irelia start falling off. AKA: go big early or go home

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

August 10 2014 01:41 GMT

#691

On August 10 2014 08:40 Lord Tolkien wrote:
go big early or go home

That's probably the best way to think of this matchup. You're stronger early game so long as counterstrike is out of the equation, so you gotta get ahead and stay ahead.

Lord Tolkien

United States12083 Posts

August 10 2014 03:04 GMT

#692

Indeed. If you get ahead, you can hard deny him and probably threaten to kill him at any point in the lane if his counterstrike is down, and thereby lock him out of the game entirely. Both Irelia and Jax are heavily dependent on gold and items.

The reverse is true if he gets ahead, however..

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

August 10 2014 11:25 GMT

#693

Jax lategame is overstated and irelias understated somewhat. You can't always get lots of autos off in teamfights and irelia is more of a burst champ and still is effective at bursting squishies it just seems like you got worse because in 5v5's you don't dominate like you do in lane and skirmishes. I wouldn't say jax is much stronger at all until he gets like 3 or 4 items.

loSleb

Austria1389 Posts

August 10 2014 13:15 GMT

#694

I would say his 5v5 isn't siginificantly better at any time, but 1v1 he starts beating you at roughly 2 finished items if he isn't too far behind. Laning should definitly go your way if there isn't too much jungle impact. Just try to engage on him when there is a minion to Q to avoid his stun.

Pulimuli

Sweden2766 Posts

August 11 2014 09:10 GMT

#695

I pick Irelia into Jax sometimes because i know that lane very well. Early and midgame you can outduel him pretty hard even when he lands counterstrike. Just use E on him after he lands it and hits you and activate Hiten Style and you should outtrade him. I tend to rush BotrK nowadays for the sustain

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