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Calgary25987 Posts
On March 02 2012 02:57 Mogwai wrote:
Is 50% or more of their damage physical?
if yes: wriggle's
if no: not wriggle's
unless you get stupidly far ahead to begin with, at which point phage or sheen rush is better.
of your examples, only teemo is mislabeled, wriggle's is incredibly important vs. Teemo IMO, as 50+% of his damage is the attack damage and you mitigate a lot of his poison damage with the -2 damage defensive mastery anyway. also, since he does sustained harass, healing off of creeps is vital.
Thanks 
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Phage and sheen are both VERY good if you get an early kill from a gank or something. You can chase them with phage procs and sheen helps up that burst damage on your combo a bit. I generally go wriggles-->trinity without wits end if I'm doing well.
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Does anyone know what runes/mastery/items to go vs uydr in lane?
For irelia, i can generally win most of my lanes by swtiching runes/mastery/starting item.
However, I cant seem to get past uydr.
I tried everything. agic resist runes/mastery into cloth 5
hybrid defense runes(half magic/half armor) into cloth 5 or null 2
boots+4 pots(this actually lose pretty fast)
even if I farm evenily early game. I cant seem to find any mid game item choice that allow me to 1v1 uydr.
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On March 02 2012 04:42 xbankx wrote:
Does anyone know what runes/mastery/items to go vs uydr in lane?
For irelia, i can generally win most of my lanes by swtiching runes/mastery/starting item.
However, I cant seem to get past uydr.
I tried everything. agic resist runes/mastery into cloth 5
hybrid defense runes(half magic/half armor) into cloth 5 or null 2
boots+4 pots(this actually lose pretty fast)
even if I farm evenily early game. I cant seem to find any mid game item choice that allow me to 1v1 uydr.
I do flat MRes Quints/Glyphs, Armor Seals, AS Marks, open cloth, get wriggle's, boots, wit's.
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On March 02 2012 02:43 Chill wrote:
Does Irelia really need Wriggles? I've been trying Beseker's Greaves straight into Recurve Bow -> Wit's End, Phage -> Trinity Force.
I get that Wriggles just gives you solid sustainability and base damage, but Irelia already has all that in her W. If you just rush attack speed and use W to beat on anyone in top lane, it seems to work just as well, while your midgame build gets up way faster by just skipping Wriggles altogether and getting a quicker Phage.
Wriggles is good to have vs very melee heavy teams / ad heavy. But even think I still think you can manage just fine without it tbh, you just need to be a bit more careful
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Calgary25987 Posts
Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf  I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =(
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I do not like wriggles on Irelia at all. Unless you are going a against something and trade while using it as a tipping point with Irelia which basically does not exist. W gives enough sustain and wriggles does not help much vs any pysical top more than a sheen or phage, Sheen for E, W auto twice back of and Phage for killing stuff.
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It helps again champs trying to outpush you, gives such sustain that you can basically ignore certain champs once you've got the advantage, and allows you to trade harder since you heal back up a lot faster. I like it because once I have it, I can shove the lane and go gank/help my jungler, or just back (I tend to back a lot with Irelia to buy parts of items), then be here before the wave's at my tower.
There are also champs that will match your sustain, with or without wriggles (esp. since you need to autoattack to sustain).
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On March 03 2012 04:12 Alaric wrote:
It helps again champs trying to outpush you, gives such sustain that you can basically ignore certain champs once you've got the advantage, and allows you to trade harder since you heal back up a lot faster. I like it because once I have it, I can shove the lane and go gank/help my jungler, or just back (I tend to back a lot with Irelia to buy parts of items), then be here before the wave's at my tower.
There are also champs that will match your sustain, with or without wriggles (esp. since you need to autoattack to sustain).
I think a fast wits end is a better investment than wriggles.You push a lane/heal with R and not with autos so meh.
I don't think I have seen wriggles on a Irelia for a long time now.
Its safe ill give you that but highly unnecessary imo and just delays your phage and wits.
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Whenever I try to steal a buff after pushing and warding, I like that wriggles to speed it up. Then again, it's because the enemy jungler wasn't there at spawn, nothing to do with Irelia and wriggles in particular...
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On March 03 2012 03:21 Chill wrote:Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =(
I would personally rush a philo against an olaf maxing E. Use Q to last hit creeps then run away. If olaf gets really aggessive trying to zone you then as soon as olaf Es you, you stun him with your E then get a couple of hits on him with w activated.
You probably aren't ever going to win that matchup in the early levels, but the above style should turn it into a free farm until you have enough health to shrug off his nuke.
Just my opinion on how to play the matchup, though I am curious to see how others would approach it.
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Calgary25987 Posts
On March 03 2012 07:14 petered wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:21 Chill wrote:Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =( I would personally rush a philo against an olaf maxing E. Use Q to last hit creeps then run away. If olaf gets really aggessive trying to zone you then as soon as olaf Es you, you stun him with your E then get a couple of hits on him with w activated. You probably aren't ever going to win that matchup in the early levels, but the above style should turn it into a free farm until you have enough health to shrug off his nuke. Just my opinion on how to play the matchup, though I am curious to see how others would approach it.
Interesting. I don't have enough matchup experience to deviate my build like that. I'll give it a try next time vs Olaf, thanks.
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On March 03 2012 07:24 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:14 petered wrote:On March 03 2012 03:21 Chill wrote:Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =( I would personally rush a philo against an olaf maxing E. Use Q to last hit creeps then run away. If olaf gets really aggessive trying to zone you then as soon as olaf Es you, you stun him with your E then get a couple of hits on him with w activated. You probably aren't ever going to win that matchup in the early levels, but the above style should turn it into a free farm until you have enough health to shrug off his nuke. Just my opinion on how to play the matchup, though I am curious to see how others would approach it. Interesting. I don't have enough matchup experience to deviate my build like that. I'll give it a try next time vs Olaf, thanks.
Erm I don't see the point of maxing E really.
Olaf doesn't have any hard CC so when he hits you with his slow and tries to walk up to you,you can just stun him with your lvl 1 E and walk away,as your E has a slight range its not melee.Just avoid straight up exchanges against him and don't let him combo you and you will be fine.There's nothing bad with sitting under your turret as Irelia against a lane you don't feel comfortable with and you don't know how to play it or your just behind.Just ward the river so you don't get blamed for top roaming.
Get your tabi asap,and than get a phage/wits from there imo.
Yea just rechecked,reckless swing has 325 range and your E has 425.So you should always be able to slow/stun him before he wrecks you with a swing if you feel like you can't afford to take it.
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Calgary25987 Posts
So the gameplan is just never be more than 325 range vs him? That's going to be difficult to put into practise if you don't want to fall behind in CS. Even using your Q to farm followed by an E to escape is going to drain your mana too quickly to be sustainable. I just found it very difficult. Usually I can feel what I did wrong but that time I just got crushed hard.
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On March 03 2012 07:34 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:24 Chill wrote:On March 03 2012 07:14 petered wrote:On March 03 2012 03:21 Chill wrote:Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =( I would personally rush a philo against an olaf maxing E. Use Q to last hit creeps then run away. If olaf gets really aggessive trying to zone you then as soon as olaf Es you, you stun him with your E then get a couple of hits on him with w activated. You probably aren't ever going to win that matchup in the early levels, but the above style should turn it into a free farm until you have enough health to shrug off his nuke. Just my opinion on how to play the matchup, though I am curious to see how others would approach it. Interesting. I don't have enough matchup experience to deviate my build like that. I'll give it a try next time vs Olaf, thanks. Erm I don't see the point of maxing E really. Olaf doesn't have any hard CC so when he hits you with his slow you can just stun him with your lvl 1 E and walk away.Just avoid straight up exchanges against him and don't let him combo you and you will be fine.There's nothing bad with sitting under your turret as Irelia against a lane you don't feel comfortable with and you don't know how to play it or your just behind. Get your tabi asap,and than get a phage from there imo.
Olaf's maxing E, not irelia. But I would avoid picking irelia into Olaf because it's a very, very hard lane to win unless you get so ahead you can commit and kill him any time he's not under tower. If I had to though I'd probably take flash+teleport because the goal is just to survive lane. You'll need to prioritize building flat health over other things though(HoG, phage) to reduce the relative shock damage of his nuke when you do get hit and 100% get a wriggles for this lane.
Olaf's considered a counter in lane to irelia though, so don't feel too bad if you do get beaten by him.
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On March 03 2012 07:49 Chill wrote:
So the gameplan is just never be more than 325 range vs him? That's going to be difficult to put into practise if you don't want to fall behind in CS. Even using your Q to farm followed by an E to escape is going to drain your mana too quickly to be sustainable. I just found it very difficult. Usually I can feel what I did wrong but that time I just got crushed hard.
Well you I'm not saying you have to always do it.There will be periods in the game(especially in the top lane) where you will just loose straight up in engagements and there is nothing that can be done about it.
It's a way bigger deal to loose 80% of your hp while trying to go even on farm during that period against your lane than letting him push slightly towards your tower where you will feel safer and it will let your jungler go in for a gank.I'm saying if you feel like you can't win at a certain point in time,just take a step back and play way passive till you get the item or lvl that can turn the lane around.Even if that means going down on cs against him,you will make up for it by not dying.If you miss a few cs you will get behind on farm a bit but you will get the xp at least,but if you loose most of your hp trying to stay even on farm you will either die,or you will be forced to constantly go back,so you will loose farm again and xp.
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On March 03 2012 03:21 Chill wrote:Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =(
What runes/items/Masteries/skill order do you use against Olaf? I would personally use hp/5 quints vs Olaf.
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Olaf is a hard matchup, With his recent buffs, many times I've gotten my Irelia "counterpicked" by olaf in ranked.
First you need to look at your runes, I go with a combination of flat health/health regen quints, hp per level yellows, attack speed reds and blues don't matter for this match up but I go for magic resists (per level).
Masteries I go with 0-21-9.
For the item build, I open boots + 3 hp pots and usually run flash + ignite, although flash + teleport is ok. If the match up is even or you're slightly behind then get philo asap, otherwise get phage.
For the skill order, I don't think there's anything set in stone. Sometimes I get Q first because I helped leash blue and I don't want to lose creeps as I come into lane, then I'll start trading hits once I am level 3 and have all my skills. If you get W first and E second you can trade hits as soon as level 2. As for maxing E over W or not, I don't have a clear rule and I get away by mixing it up most of the time. Higher levels of E will let you do more damage in trades and higher levels in W will let you sustain better but you can't sustain if you can't hit the creeps because you're getting zoned so level them up as you see fit. Sometimes I'll get a second level on my Q because I feel like I can flash and kill him.
For the actual match up, do not try to avoid his E, in fact stay between your creeps and make him come at you to cast it, As soon as you get damaged you stun him with your own E, activate W and auto him. Two things may happen after he recovers from the stun: Your creeps are few and not doing enough damage for him to back off, then he will keep attacking you in which case you want to keep autoattacking but back off before he can use his E a second time; your own creeps damaging and blocking him and your own speed should prevent him to land a second E while chasing (make sure to dodge his axe). The second thing that can happen is that he backs off immediately in which case keep autoattacking him then possibly Q him and auto him again then back away immediately before he has a chance to use his E a second time. In both cases the important thing is that you LEARN THE COOLDOWN on his E. Look up the numbers. In every trade, if he doesn't get to use his E a second time, you should come out even or only very slightly behind depending on the amount of axes that he landed, and Irelia has better sustain particularly after level 6. So there's no way to lose right? There's another thing that may happen and that's him using his ult immediately after you stun him, obviously you want to back off and let him zone you for the duration of his ult.
Ideally, he will back off immediately after getting stunned which will let you get a Q and some more autos before he turns back. For that to happen you need to control the creepwave; do not get outpushed (so badly). If olaf is autoattacking the creep wave, either do the same thing yourself if you need health, or harass him if possible or ask your jungler for ganks. Olaf is really vulnerable to ganks. But if you can't rely on your jungler, then you can't let your creepwave get annihilated or you won't be able to trade hits with him. And if you want to farm then you have to show him that you're not about to bend over and run away as soon as he gets close to you. However if you can rely on your jungler, the olaf that gets close to you and fights you between your creeps will automatically push the wave by virtue of him drawing more creep aggro than you. As long as the creep numbers aren't terribly imbalanced in his favor, it is fine.
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On March 03 2012 07:51 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:34 TheKefka wrote:On March 03 2012 07:24 Chill wrote:On March 03 2012 07:14 petered wrote:On March 03 2012 03:21 Chill wrote:Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =( I would personally rush a philo against an olaf maxing E. Use Q to last hit creeps then run away. If olaf gets really aggessive trying to zone you then as soon as olaf Es you, you stun him with your E then get a couple of hits on him with w activated. You probably aren't ever going to win that matchup in the early levels, but the above style should turn it into a free farm until you have enough health to shrug off his nuke. Just my opinion on how to play the matchup, though I am curious to see how others would approach it. Interesting. I don't have enough matchup experience to deviate my build like that. I'll give it a try next time vs Olaf, thanks. Erm I don't see the point of maxing E really. Olaf doesn't have any hard CC so when he hits you with his slow you can just stun him with your lvl 1 E and walk away.Just avoid straight up exchanges against him and don't let him combo you and you will be fine.There's nothing bad with sitting under your turret as Irelia against a lane you don't feel comfortable with and you don't know how to play it or your just behind. Get your tabi asap,and than get a phage from there imo. Olaf's maxing E, not irelia. But I would avoid picking irelia into Olaf because it's a very, very hard lane to win unless you get so ahead you can commit and kill him any time he's not under tower. If I had to though I'd probably take flash+teleport because the goal is just to survive lane. You'll need to prioritize building flat health over other things though(HoG, phage) to reduce the relative shock damage of his nuke when you do get hit and 100% get a wriggles for this lane. Olaf's considered a counter in lane to irelia though, so don't feel too bad if you do get beaten by him.
That make no sense. You need to pressure him out of trading with you. I would rather have exhaust than teleport vs Olaf and sheen. He is going to hit you with E 100% you can and need to force him from doing or you are going to lose in CS. At level 3 olaf E if he is levelling it does 160 to you and 64 to himself, if you can hit him with E and 2 hiten style level 2 and deal around 120 damage sure as hell isn't possible to hit again and again. Q is useless pre 6, huge mana sink and you will need that mana this is unless you are getting a gank in your lane or he is wasting all his mana spamming Undertow so you need to last hit under tower.
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On March 03 2012 03:21 Chill wrote:Got ridiculously crushed against Olaf I felt like I couldn't do anything at level 3. His Reckless Swing does soooooo much damage. Eventually I had to just sit at my tower. =(
Vs olaf I'd definitely run defensive masteries and also probably start regrowth pendant. Early levels you can't do much more other than farm, however after his E starts dealing a lot of damage you basically want to E him right after he uses it, activate W, and start attacking him and go with that until he runs away, at which point you Q him and then back off. You really should win that trade, and then you can heal up afterwards pretty decently and repeat that as needed. After you get Wriggles or whatever you should be just fine.
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EPT
