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There's no easy way really. You can try wriggles to just farm as much as possible. You can also try tabi+wits end rush and sneak in an E stun somewhere past level 9 and burst him with your EW+Q with W active+R and ignite. Wits end is nice because udyrs often get tabi+wriggles so you really don't want too much physical damage.
If you get ahead of udyr via a gank or something, you can stay ahead decently because of true damage versus underleveled (less hp) target. Udyr has a very hard time safely harassing because he makes it so fucking obvious when he hits Q and runs at you and doesn't have an easy escape against a red buff high damage jungler. (Versus low damage shield spam especially if he has mercs make him hard to kill)
The main problem is he can just stay ahead if you don't get help from jungle get a cs lead and it becomes hard for you. Just playing safe with wards (die once to gank and you're probably screwed) and farming what you can without taking too much damage and hope your jungler finds a good time to gank him.
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I think people's problems vs Udyr come from the fact that Tiger/Phoenix does magic damage. You need to start boots and potions then get merc's + negatron (for FoN later), chalice, wits end, spirit visage, even aegis if you can afford it. Opening Cloth armour and going for wriggles and tabi, which are great on her in most lanes, is a good way to lose the lane vs Udyr. Especially if you're using MR/level blues.
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hmm, I've always done wriggle's + wit's opening and found the matchup pretty straightforward and easy. maybe I've just played vs. bad udyr solos but it's always seemed like I can trade favorably by just attacking him and then waiting on his bear stun before activating W active and then EQ or QEing him. just feels like you have an advantage because you're leveling up your damage and sustain at the same time while he has to pick and choose.
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Generally:
AS Reds
Armor Yellow
either flat or scaling MR
Armor/MRes/HPRegen Quints.
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I've been skipping wriggles on her almost every game lately just to get a faster triforce. Basically starting boots or cloth armour, then building just one laning item, (Philo, Wits, Chalice, Wriggles) item and go strait into phage,sheen,and triforce. The jump in power once you have sheen and phage is incredible. You become such a high threat to every carry on the enemy team, while wriggles is kinda meh. If you're losing the lane wriggle's will help you stay in the lane, but I just don't feel it should be built if you're already ahead, you've already got incredible sustain. I guess its just personal preference, but if I don't have sheen and phage at 20 minutes I feel like I'm behind.
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On February 23 2012 03:26 Sabin010 wrote:
I've been skipping wriggles on her almost every game lately just to get a faster triforce. Basically starting boots or cloth armour, then building just one laning item, (Philo, Wits, Chalice, Wriggles) item and go strait into phage,sheen,and triforce. The jump in power once you have sheen and phage is incredible. You become such a high threat to every carry on the enemy team, while wriggles is kinda meh. If you're losing the lane wriggle's will help you stay in the lane, but I just don't feel it should be built if you're already ahead, you've already got incredible sustain. I guess its just personal preference, but if I don't have sheen and phage at 20 minutes I feel like I'm behind.
So...
In just what kind of a situation is it even possible for you to not have a Phage and a Sheen by 20 minutes even if you go Wriggles first?
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If I go Wriggles, and wits I just don't have enough gold to get sheen boots 2 and phage. Maybe I miss too many creepies.
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On February 23 2012 03:45 Sabin010 wrote:
If I go Wriggles, and wits I just don't have enough gold to get sheen boots 2 and phage. Maybe I miss too many creepies.
with wriggle's + wit's, that's not unreasonable. I prefer wriggle's + wit's -> phage -> tanky triforce, but I've seen all sort of build orders work on irelia.
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Been pretty pleased with my irelia recently. These two games in a row got me to 2300, usually irelias my go to when someone else wants to jungle, but top is open so I don't support hueuhe. Better post em now before I lose my luck streak and end up back down to 1400 :D:D:D
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/255593/
I got a little lucky in lane after I didn't realize shen had FB and almost killed me early, but it worked out well overall. Laned against shen: runes: MR quints/blues flat, armour yellows, AD reds (generic anti magic/physical or magic damage page, maybe AS better for irelia but AD at elast scales with q and r)
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/255596/
I'm with alex ich, gosu pepper playing support karth and diamondprox shyvana. I had suspicions of diamond ganking me both times but the secnod time I just got baited anyway like a tard. I laned against rumble, found it quite easy but I'm quite experienced against rumble in general, although not with irelia. (prolly first irelia vs rumble) Same runepage. We kinda got carried because they had support karthus and malzahar though :X.
My top has imrproved quite a bit, although again my whole team did well in these games and the gamesi posted in the udyr thread so I don't feel like I "carried". Hopefully should be high enough skil level to entertain you guys though.
The game I didn't go triforce was because I figured they didn't have that many kitey champions but I really wanted to be tanky, so I just got some sustained damage and laning strength and then went for tank items.
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On February 27 2012 07:49 Slayer91 wrote:Been pretty pleased with my irelia recently. These two games in a row got me to 2300, usually irelias my go to when someone else wants to jungle, but top is open so I don't support hueuhe. Better post em now before I lose my luck streak and end up back down to 1400 :D:D:D http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/255593/I got a little lucky in lane after I didn't realize shen had FB and almost killed me early, but it worked out well overall. Laned against shen: runes: MR quints/blues flat, armour yellows, AD reds (generic anti magic/physical or magic damage page, maybe AS better for irelia but AD at elast scales with q and r) http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/255596/I'm with alex ich, gosu pepper playing support karth and diamondprox shyvana. I had suspicions of diamond ganking me both times but the secnod time I just got baited anyway like a tard. I laned against rumble, found it quite easy but I'm quite experienced against rumble in general, although not with irelia. (prolly first irelia vs rumble) Same runepage. We kinda got carried because they had support karthus and malzahar though :X. My top has imrproved quite a bit, although again my whole team did well in these games and the gamesi posted in the udyr thread so I don't feel like I "carried". Hopefully should be high enough skil level to entertain you guys though. The game I didn't go triforce was because I figured they didn't have that many kitey champions but I really wanted to be tanky, so I just got some sustained damage and laning strength and then went for tank items.
So I play on Mac and hence can't look at those replays, but I'd like your advice on Irelia vs Rumble if that's possible. If I'm not mistaken, I recall Smash saying it's one of the toughest matchups for Irelia and that he'd straight up rush FoN. (Don't quote me on that, it just got stuck in my head.)
I have played the MU numerous times and I feel I can barely do anything pre Wit's End. I run the same runes (AS instead of AD though) and while I'm able to farm just fine, I feel like the matchup is basically decided by the jungle presence both of you get. If I'm able to farm passively until I hit my soft spot, I continuously find myself being able to boss Rumble around like it's nobody's business, but if their jungler manages to accomplish anything early on, I'm pretty fucked.
How do you approach that matchup? When do you start being aggressive, are there any pointers when to engage (besides the obvious too much or no heat), how do you build against him?
I'd really appreciate your advice on this.
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i'll change my stance on that matchup. It shouldn't be too tough tbh. Playing wukong has changed my general outlook vs. rumble drastically and Irelia has all the tools necessary to play the matchup just fine.
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Yep. I used to rush FoN on garen back when rumble was considered OP as hell and eventually I realized he's not all that scary when you get used to him.
Diamondprox has 2 sucessful ganks on me that game, I don't think alex got a good gank off on rumble though. The second gank killed me when it shouldn't , I just didn't place the ward I had because I forgot, but I got lucky killing rumble when he tried to push and b but I q'd to a creep and to him and killed him just when he finished pushing so it equalized the lane again and I had no problems then.
I think I went something like boots+3-->null magic-->ruby crystal-->wits end or something. I think some people were building spirit visage against him but I think they just wanted the hp more than anything. If you're really scared get regrowth maybe convert it into a fon if you like but you'd probably have to rush straight trinity after to get yourself back in the game damage wise.
Laning versus rumble is mostly a matter of just not letting him do damage to you for free, either zone yourself or trade with him when he's on CD to secure farm. Just be careful you don't get too low to towerdive because rumble will always be pushing so the only way you can get ganked with a ward is towerdives.
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Am I the only one that thinks Irelia actually beats Yorick once she gets to level ~7?
First levels are hell because he just keeps throwing ghouls at you and they hurt a lot. But then you buy Wit's End and merc treads then proceed to jump on him and just AA him to death.
I also love when he throws Ghouls at me when I'm at low health/half, because you just heal right off of them.
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On February 28 2012 02:47 Cloud9157 wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks Irelia actually beats Yorick once she gets to level ~7?
First levels are hell because he just keeps throwing ghouls at you and they hurt a lot. But then you buy Wit's End and merc treads then proceed to jump on him and just AA him to death.
I also love when he throws Ghouls at me when I'm at low health/half, because you just heal right off of them.
speccing 21 defensive with the -damage and -minion damage masteries makes the matchup pretty straight forward. wriggle's -> wit's, then you just come out ahead in all trades. It's still kinda frustrating that he gets to wear you down without ever having to overextend, whereas you have to use up CDs and go balls deep to trade with him, but ultimately irelia trades well with him and it's not too bad.
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Calgary26004 Posts
Does Irelia really need Wriggles? I've been trying Beseker's Greaves straight into Recurve Bow -> Wit's End, Phage -> Trinity Force.
I get that Wriggles just gives you solid sustainability and base damage, but Irelia already has all that in her W. If you just rush attack speed and use W to beat on anyone in top lane, it seems to work just as well, while your midgame build gets up way faster by just skipping Wriggles altogether and getting a quicker Phage.
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It's matchup dependent, but in hard AD matchups, wriggle's is necessary
fuck it, build whatever you want, I've had this discussion too many times. I give in and will just agree with whatever people want to do on irelia.
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Irelia doesn't need Wriggles against some lane matchups and she doesn't really need the help in farm either. Sometimes it indeed is better to go for a faster triforce or Wits end, namely against casters you usually are going to rush Wits End instead of a Wriggles.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On March 02 2012 02:45 Mogwai wrote:
It's matchup dependent, but in hard AD matchups, wriggle's is necessary
fuck it, build whatever you want, I've had this discussion too many times. I give in and will just agree with whatever people want to do on irelia.
Can you give me a summary of the matchups? Doesn't have to be champion-by-champion, but a summary of roles would be helpful.
I take it you'd get it vs Wukong, Renekton, Riven, Tryndamere? But not versus, say, Vlad, Teemo, Kennen, etc?
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Is 50% or more of their damage physical?
if yes: wriggle's
if no: not wriggle's
unless you get stupidly far ahead to begin with, at which point phage or sheen rush is better.
of your examples, only teemo is mislabeled, wriggle's is incredibly important vs. Teemo IMO, as 50+% of his damage is the attack damage and you mitigate a lot of his poison damage with the -2 damage defensive mastery anyway. also, since he does sustained harass, healing off of creeps is vital.
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EPT
