EPT[Champion] Irelia - Page 13
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Slayer91
Ireland23465 Posts
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 03 2011 23:08 billy5000 wrote: I never argued for or against anything under the premise "when I'm winning my lane" in case you were trying to compare my build to a troll build. The thing is..I usually only get wit's end when my opponent does magic damage, and wriggles when he does ad. I never try to get both. And I don't feel that the magic damage from wit's end is significant as you can't build against true damage, which most of her dps comes from, anyway. As for the boots, it's just 25 defense you're sacrificing to optimize your damage output of her w for a beastly laning phase, and 25 defense in team fights won't matter that much. Of course, I'd never get berserker's if I plan on getting wit's end. Berserker boots are pretty bad on Irelia, because wit's end (or zeal->triforce, if you can wait that long) complements Irelia better, because you have to be tanky. Think of champions that get wit's end as a core item - Udyr and Warwick. It's amazing for them (and Irelia) because 1) they scale off AS, and 2) they will be in the middle of fights and need to be tanky. If you start Wriggle and skip gp5 items, it's hard to argue against Wit's End. Wriggle -> Triforce makes you too squishy and takes too long, and Wriggle -> more defense means you deal practically no damage. Wit's End is actually quite a good item here, and you should be getting it and merc threads/tabi boots right around when you're needed in team fights. | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
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romanov
Netherlands892 Posts
Q - Gap closer for ganks W - Self heal for in the jungle, extra damage on ganks E - Stun/Slow for ganks R - Tons of damage, easy to steal entire enemy camps with in the blink of an eye After she was free to play last week i'm saving up points to buy her and try it out, is there any reason's why i shouldn't bother? | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On November 03 2011 23:57 romanov wrote: Could somebody tell me why nobody jungle's on Irelia? Her abilities seem almost perfect for jungling? Q - Gap closer for ganks W - Self heal for in the jungle, extra damage on ganks E - Stun/Slow for ganks R - Tons of damage, easy to steal entire enemy camps with in the blink of an eye After she was free to play last week i'm saving up points to buy her and try it out, is there any reason's why i shouldn't bother? Her first run is a little slow, but that's it. She's a fairly safe jungler, and she scales well into the mid to late game. Most importantly, she's simply an incredibly versatile character with her skillset. She can jungle, she can solo top, she can be tough as shit to kill, and she can do damage. If you're looking for a very strong, jack-of-all-trades type of champ, Irelia's a very good pick. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23465 Posts
If you want someone who goes in afterwards and bursts nocturne or xin zhao are much better picks. She's not the best for an initiate jungler pick either. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23465 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On November 03 2011 23:08 billy5000 wrote: As for the boots, it's just 25 defense you're sacrificing to optimize your damage output of her w for a beastly laning phase, and 25 defense in team fights won't matter that much. Of course, I'd never get berserker's if I plan on getting wit's end. 25 armor on someone like Irelia who can heal automatically during a fight is more significant than someone without this ability. Let's say your opponent does 100 dmg each with attack, before armor. If you have 50 armor, you take 67 damage. If you have 75 armor, then you take 57 damage. That's a 15% reduction in damage. Now let's say you have a comparable attack speed to your opponent, and you've maxed W. Now we are looking at 41 dmg vs 31 dmg, which is a reduction of 24%! As damage and armor goes up over time, the % benefit will decrease, but we haven't even factored in the 12% dodge, which is something that scales perfectly over the entire game (unless they get a sotd). | ||
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romanov
Netherlands892 Posts
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:01 dookudooku wrote: 25 armor on someone like Irelia who can heal automatically during a fight is more significant than someone without this ability. Let's say your opponent does 100 dmg each with attack, before armor. If you have 50 armor, you take 67 damage. If you have 75 armor, then you take 57 damage. That's a 15% reduction in damage. Now let's say you have a comparable attack speed to your opponent, and you've maxed W. Now we are looking at 41 dmg vs 31 dmg, which is a reduction of 24%! As damage and armor goes up over time, the % benefit will decrease, but we haven't even factored in the 12% dodge, which is something that scales perfectly over the entire game (unless they get a sotd). Sounds nice in theory, but I don't recall saying that I have absolutely no armor items by the time a team fight ensues. At that time, I usually have a chain vest ready to build into a GA. Assuming I have a chain vest and 50 base armor, I'll have 95 armor vs 120 armor (50+25+45) if I decided to go ninja tabi while continuing with the GA build. With the former items, I take ~49% damage reduction compared to the ~55% damage reduction I get with the latter. That's fairly insignificant, imo. Of course, while 12% dodge has its place, it really depends on their team comp. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On November 04 2011 13:57 billy5000 wrote: Sounds nice in theory, but I don't recall saying that I have absolutely no armor items by the time a team fight ensues. At that time, I usually have a chain vest ready to build into a GA. Assuming I have a chain vest and 50 base armor, I'll have 95 armor vs 120 armor (50+25+45) if I decided to go ninja tabi while continuing with the GA build. With the former items, I take ~49% damage reduction compared to the ~55% damage reduction I get with the latter. That's fairly insignificant, imo. Of course, while 12% dodge has its place, it really depends on their team comp. Your argument is totally skewed. Using the same reasoning, I could say that I already have other +AS items by the time a team fight ensues. +25% AS is most useful early game, exactly the time when +25 armor is also the most useful. Because +AS scales off base AS, +25% AS is more like +12% AS late game. Realistically speaking, you should be getting your level 2 boots long before you enter a team fight. You'll most likely be farming on top by yourself most of the time, and the ninja tabi just gives you a much better chance to dominate that lane. And you really should look at effective health calculations vs damage per second when comparing the two. If you compare 95 armor vs 120 armor + 12% dodge, the latter gives you 28% more effective health. And we haven't factored in synergy with W. Yes, Berserker's can give you ~5-20% more effective health, but the number is the greatest in the early game, where Ninja's Tabi will give you a much, much biggest boost in effective health. | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
On November 04 2011 14:27 dookudooku wrote: Your argument is totally skewed. Using the same reasoning, I could say that I already have other +AS items by the time a team fight ensues. +25% AS is most useful early game, exactly the time when +25 armor is also the most useful. Because +AS scales off base AS, +25% AS is more like +12% AS late game. Realistically speaking, you should be getting your level 2 boots long before you enter a team fight. You'll most likely be farming on top by yourself most of the time, and the ninja tabi just gives you a much better chance to dominate that lane. And you really should look at effective health calculations vs damage per second when comparing the two. If you compare 95 armor vs 120 armor + 12% dodge, the latter gives you 28% more effective health. And we haven't factored in synergy with W. Yes, Berserker's can give you ~5-20% more effective health, but the number is the greatest in the early game, where Ninja's Tabi will give you a much, much biggest boost in effective health. On November 03 2011 23:08 billy5000 wrote: I never argued for or against anything under the premise "when I'm winning my lane" in case you were trying to compare my build to a troll build. The thing is..I usually only get wit's end when my opponent does magic damage, and wriggles when he does ad. I never try to get both. And I don't feel that the magic damage from wit's end is significant as you can't build against true damage, which most of her dps comes from, anyway. As for the boots, it's just 25 defense you're sacrificing to optimize your damage output of her w for a beastly laning phase, and 25 defense in team fights won't matter that much. Of course, I'd never get berserker's if I plan on getting wit's end. What I was trying to accomplish was to use berserker's as her main attack speed item. If I'm building triforce (which I rarely do nowadays) I usually getting zeal at the latest. This way, she can have enough sustain from wriggles and build tankier much faster. | ||
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RetZ
Australia67 Posts
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 04 2011 16:13 RetZ wrote: If you're going to skip defensive boots, cdr is going to add a lot more damage/utility than zerk. what? no it isn't. Attack Speed and Irelia get a long real well. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Of course, wriggle also builds from cloth so it's a tradeoff. But if you really want that movespeed then tabi can be very good. | ||
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