EPT[Champion] Irelia - Page 12
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
2 AD, 3 Jungle, 5 solo top, 1 AP/Support | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:15 Juicyfruit wrote: I don't think regrowth works vs rumble, but any mana-limited spellcaster can be bottlenecked like this early on yeah. You can always be boss and open NMM followed by another NMM. One for merc treads and another for GA/Wit's end. Huehue. I just want to note something about Tap's advice. He played Irelia against Rumble top, opened null mantle, first buy was Negatron, and still gave up a kill and was down 10 cs. Rumble literally sat outside of tower range, stood still, and pressed Q after a few levels. Point being, Tapioca is #1 Irelia. Actually, how does that matchup go? I figure if Irelia can not die and keep up in farm, she's done her job. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:05 dnastyx wrote: I just want to note something about Tap's advice. He played Irelia against Rumble top, opened null mantle, first buy was Negatron, and still gave up a kill and was down 10 cs. Rumble literally sat outside of tower range, stood still, and pressed Q after a few levels. Point being, Tapioca is #1 Irelia. Actually, how does that matchup go? I figure if Irelia can not die and keep up in farm, she's done her job. welcome to all rumble matchups. character is just a fucking AP Garen. cheesy motherfuckers. Irelia butchers him post wit's end, it's just about getting wit's end. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:05 dnastyx wrote: I just want to note something about Tap's advice. He played Irelia against Rumble top, opened null mantle, first buy was Negatron, and still gave up a kill and was down 10 cs. Rumble literally sat outside of tower range, stood still, and pressed Q after a few levels. Point being, Tapioca is #1 Irelia. Actually, how does that matchup go? I figure if Irelia can not die and keep up in farm, she's done her job. I call shenanigans on the fact that I don't play solotop and those 10 cs were as a result of me being bad at last hitting and not because of Rumble's presence. I would have missed those 10 cs vs Nasus bot garenteed. My death also a result of me being greedy and isn't indicative of the matchup. It's like if Casseiopia runs up into Annie for no reason while she has tibbers, stun and ignite up and dies, but that doesn't mean Annie > Cass. In all other words, I'm just bad at playing solo lanes. Also, Smash advocates Wit's end vs Rumble. I win Ghandi. GG | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:19 Juicyfruit wrote: In my defense, I was actually trying to BEAT rumble not just survive the lane. I thought if I went to lane with like 90 MR that I can actually kill or cripple him before he gets to level 5 where his shit starts becoming stupid. That didn't pan out. I would argue that Rumble's shit "starts becoming stupid" before level 5 (not to mention that Irelia doesn't kick in that well before then either). But I don't really play top lanes that often, so what do I know. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:09 Juicyfruit wrote: I call shenanigans on the fact that I don't play solotop and those 10 cs were as a result of me being bad at last hitting and not because of Rumble's presence. I would have missed those 10 cs vs Nasus bot garenteed. My death also a result of me being greedy and isn't indicative of the matchup. It's like if Casseiopia runs up into Annie for no reason while she has tibbers, stun and ignite up and dies, but that doesn't mean Annie > Cass. In all other words, I'm just bad at playing solo lanes. Also, Smash advocates Wit's end vs Rumble. I win Ghandi. GG i told you to open boots and get spirit visage because thats what i used to end up 40 cs of rumble in the tourney but nope tap never listens. instead i have to kill you over and over again with you starting mantle and building negatron before boots(wtf). | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
If you let me practice that matchup a few more times (since I don't play solotop except when I get stuck with it) I would have eventually made it work with my build. Spirit visage is just an unnecessary delay on a core item and wit's end is a way better mid-game item; I still don't understand to this day your reasoning for getting it. | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:01 Mogwai wrote: I wrote that before you edited. Attack Speed is Irelia. Period. I think arpen better on all other auto-attackers. i'm surprised how i don't see many irelias going attack speed boots especially when they build philo, which they can upgrade to the tenacity item later. | ||
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Nilitsu
Canada442 Posts
Red: Attack Speed. Yellow hp/lvl Blue Magic Resist / lvl Quints flat hp Masteries 1 18 11 What do you guys think? | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On November 03 2011 08:00 billy5000 wrote: i'm surprised how i don't see many irelias going attack speed boots especially when they build philo, which they can upgrade to the tenacity item later. Irelia is not a ranged AD carry who needs every bit of DPS, so berserker's on her is not really great. She's better off with an item like Wit's End for increasing AS, and leaving boots for +defense. Her base speed is pretty good so she doesn't need to rush to lvl 2 boots, and there are just much better overall mid/late game items for boosting AS on Irelia (Wit's End, Triforce). Eleisa's is not a bad item for Irelia, but I would go with Ninja Tabi for boots in that case. But overall I would rather go something like Wriggles + HoG over Eleisa's + Ninja Tabi if I needed lane sustain and +gold. | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
On November 03 2011 09:00 dookudooku wrote: Irelia is not a ranged AD carry who needs every bit of DPS, so berserker's on her is not really great. She's better off with an item like Wit's End for increasing AS, and leaving boots for +defense. Her base speed is pretty good so she doesn't need to rush to lvl 2 boots, and there are just much better overall mid/late game items for boosting AS on Irelia (Wit's End, Triforce). Eleisa's is not a bad item for Irelia, but I would go with Ninja Tabi for boots in that case. But overall I would rather go something like Wriggles + HoG over Eleisa's + Ninja Tabi if I needed lane sustain and +gold. Personally, I'm not a fan of building wit's end against an ad champ like gp or jarvan, and I usually don't rush triforce after phage. It's all very situational depending on the matchup (I feel like irelia is one of the most flexible champions as she can be extremely fragile or downright dominating in certain matchups). Although I feel that ninja tabi is an option in the case against an ad, I'd only get it when I'm losing my lane and depending on their team comp. But if there's a potential to win my matchup, I feel that berserker's is a strong choice before or after wriggles. And lvl 2 boots help a lot because she of her fast base movement speed imo. Imagine auto attacking 2-3 times after q'ing someone with the attack speed bonus from berserker's early in lane. As for philo vs hog, philo lets me harass and/or last hit under tower almost indefinitely (I love making the most of her w by refreshing her q on a ranged minion behind the opponent for a sure stun followed by w+autoattacks and dash+more autoattacks when he backs up). I usually get GA over randuin's for armor anyway. | ||
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Conzeq
64 Posts
On November 03 2011 08:29 FragtaLe wrote: Speaking of AS, Wickd posted his Irelia rune/masteries in his AMA thread. Red: Attack Speed. Yellow hp/lvl Blue Magic Resist / lvl Quints flat hp Masteries 1 18 11 What do you guys think? I run AS on Irelia sometimes. I think it is a good choice as you level W first. - I haven't done the math, but dat true dmg is sick! The HP/lvl I can see working - aswell as dodge or armors. Magic resist / lvl a good choice. Quints I'd rather run hp/5, since I love sustain in top lane. Masteries I play are 0/9/21 or 0/21/9 - so I'll have to try that next game. I think it is generally a good thing for laning, but I'd rather have the hp regen quints - I LOVE them. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On November 03 2011 21:42 billy5000 wrote: Personally, I'm not a fan of building wit's end against an ad champ like gp or jarvan, and I usually don't rush triforce after phage. It's all very situational depending on the matchup (I feel like irelia is one of the most flexible champions as she can be extremely fragile or downright dominating in certain matchups). Although I feel that ninja tabi is an option in the case against an ad, I'd only get it when I'm losing my lane and depending on their team comp. But if there's a potential to win my matchup, I feel that berserker's is a strong choice before or after wriggles. And lvl 2 boots help a lot because she of her fast base movement speed imo. Imagine auto attacking 2-3 times after q'ing someone with the attack speed bonus from berserker's early in lane. As for philo vs hog, philo lets me harass and/or last hit under tower almost indefinitely. I usually get GA over randuin's for armor anyway. I think the simplest response to this is that pro-streamers never ever get berserker's, while many of them do get Wit's End. Now a better explanation: the reason Berserker's is avoided is because it's an item that only gives +dps but no defensive benefits (other than obvious movement speed). Overall, Irelia is best when every +dps item she gets also helps her defense. In fact, every item Irelia gets should add to her defense, with 2 or 3 of them also boosting her dps. Almost any build, even troll builds, are viable when you're winning the matchup. No one cares about what to build when you're ahead, even though it's generally accepted that you can ignore defense for a while and keep increasing your offense. This information is mostly useless and actually hurts lower-level players, who just try to pile up DPS when they are already behind. Wit's End is worth it against Jax or gp since both of them can do substantial magic damage. Also, the items significantly boosts your magic damage output, something Irelia lost with her changes. | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
EDIT: Well might as well post something about Irelia. I tried CDRrelia a few times with okay results. 0/21/9 with nimble and tp mastery, going flash/tp. Armor or MR quints depending on lane, apen/armor or dodge/3 mr + scaling cdr quints. With FH/SR you can get 40% cdr at level 18. Whole idea behind this is to splitpush and it was good when team actually splitpushed because I can take anyone on 1v1 and usually even 1v2 and they have to commit a LOT to chase/kill you. As one might think this won't give you good amount of burst damage with standard triforce. I tried to farm it but since it was pubs there wasn't that much coordination so with some kills and various tower/dragon gold I think I only had a sheen (you also need a negatron usually because only mr you'll have is from mercs. I don't think this is really that great over standard build but it has its uses... you're tanky and deal damage via spells. Still don't feel like it's worth it since you aren't as much a threat. Maybe other have tried and found something else about it. It should be noted that your ult is on a 24 second cd so maybe instead of going to triforce you can go straight for damage items to make use of your Q/R better. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23465 Posts
I actually am not so sure about null magic any more, it's cool having lots of magic resist at level 1 but the % decrease in damage is pretty tiny to the massive increase in health regen. Since vs spammable spell casters you take more damage to heal off hiten style anyway. The only exception is a matchup like jax where winning a trade against him means you basically win the lane since he has no sustain and you have sustain so getting regen and letting him win a trade might be worse because he can keep going on you but then that's theorycrafty, still the principle of getting resists versus a champion that doesn't have risk free harass makes sense because resists do give you slightly more sustain from hiten style as well, and its sustain that works in fights. Also, I used to go 21 defense every game but I find myself using utility with nimbleness or SoS now simply because the only point I really like in the defense tree after the first few is the -4% reduced damage. Except in certain matchups the small health increase and less minion and physical damage is generally not very useful while CDR and movement speed are great stats and mana regen is great in lane enough to offset taking a bit more damage especially from minions. I think the best way to get CDR irelia to work is just convert philo into shureylas pretty cost effectively and kill somebody to get blue buff with 21 utility, Boom, 40% cdr without having to do gimmicky ass builds. :D I dislike trinity and frozen heart you're investing so much money into offense on a champion that works best jumping into 5 people with huge burst threat but having a passive and skillset that lets you get out and then get back in and stun someone and heal up if they focus you but you're tanky enough that you can get away. I prefer it on someone like Nasus who's more of a constant presence in a teamfight to keep the -AS reduction on and you have ultimate to keep you alive and you can't jump into their whole team either. CDR directly helps your survival based on whither uptime being higher on their AD carry. | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
On November 03 2011 22:04 dookudooku wrote: I think the simplest response to this is that pro-streamers never ever get berserker's, while many of them do get Wit's End. Now a better explanation: the reason Berserker's is avoided is because it's an item that only gives +dps but no defensive benefits (other than obvious movement speed). Overall, Irelia is best when every +dps item she gets also helps her defense. In fact, every item Irelia gets should add to her defense, with 2 or 3 of them also boosting her dps. Almost any build, even troll builds, are viable when you're winning the matchup. No one cares about what to build when you're ahead, even though it's generally accepted that you can ignore defense for a while and keep increasing your offense. This information is mostly useless and actually hurts lower-level players, who just try to pile up DPS when they are already behind. Wit's End is worth it against Jax or gp since both of them can do substantial magic damage. Also, the items significantly boosts your magic damage output, something Irelia lost with her changes. I never argued for or against anything under the premise "when I'm winning my lane" in case you were trying to compare my build to a troll build. The thing is..I usually only get wit's end when my opponent does magic damage, and wriggles when he does ad. I never try to get both. And I don't feel that the magic damage from wit's end is significant as you can't build against true damage, which most of her dps comes from, anyway. As for the boots, it's just 25 defense you're sacrificing to optimize your damage output of her w for a beastly laning phase, and 25 defense in team fights won't matter that much. Of course, I'd never get berserker's if I plan on getting wit's end. | ||
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