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On November 10 2011 06:28 Sandster wrote:
I'm surprised no one mentioned getting tabi and selling them for merc threads later. Tabi is ridiculously cheap and builds from your starting item (pretty much any matchup you'd consider tabi, you will start cloth +5), allowing you to get your big items that much quicker.
Of course, wriggle also builds from cloth so it's a tradeoff. But if you really want that movespeed then tabi can be very good.
when I get tabi, I usually keep tabi. tabi are really fucking good and it's not like it's a pain in the ass to just grab an eliza's miracle later on Irelia.
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How do you guy decide whether to max Q or E after W? I've been maxing Q a lot since it feels like I get more burst with the extra auto Q applies and the lower CDR makes lasthitting easier. Also how do you guys think Irelia does vs Riven/Wukong/Talon/Renek top? In my experience Irelia goes even or shits on all of them after a certain level. But vs. Renek and Riven you really need to play passive early.
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You get less burst. The extra auto it applies is also at level 1. The extra second stun on E and damage >> less cd on q when you fail your q on minion and you don't get it reset.
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On November 12 2011 07:57 Slayer91 wrote:
You get less burst. The extra auto it applies is also at level 1. The extra second stun on E and damage >> less cd on q when you fail your q on minion and you don't get it reset.
exactly, the extra damage you get from lvling Q up is not worth it when you can get an extra second on E.
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Do what literally every team I ever face with an Irelia does: have their jungler camp the shit out of her lane for the first 10 minutes. Can't possibly have a bad early game with a perpetual 2v1.
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Vs Renek need to be aggressive early and then just farm with your advantage. You outscale him but he definitely outright beats you 1v1 if you try to fight him.
Vs Riven you basically need to just farm. She can abuse your earlygame too much and scales well too. But you're still irelia so trollolol
Vs talon you just build armor and it's autowin for you. He had no sustain and without enough burst to kill you or with his rakes not doing enough damage you simply outlast him.
I usually get 2 lvls in q for lane but max e second. 1 more second on stun too strong.
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On November 12 2011 08:51 BlackPaladin wrote:
Vs Renek FARM WRIGGLES THEN ZONE HIM
Vs FARM WRIGGLES THEN ZONE HER
Vs talon FARM WRIGGLES THEN ZONE HIM
fixed.
Also, no fucking way you can beat a renekton early game playing aggressive. He's guaranteed to have creep advantage and can just constantly spam his shit while you'll run out of mana and your stun is only useful defensively.
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Early as in lvl ~1-3, maybe only 2 depending on his spec/runes/opening item. As long as you don't act retarded and take a fury q to the face you can win those trades and farm up for wriggles.
And I don't think you played vs a good riven before if you think irelia can outright beat riven so hard that you can zone her. Maybe I just know Navi's riven and how riven should play in my mind too well though lol
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whenever I play Irelia, it feels like I can't kill shit in laning phase.
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Any way to survive against an Olaf who maxes E first and just zones you? I actually play Olaf myself (and some Irelia from time to time) at solo top and Irelia vs. Olaf seems like a pointless lane match-up.
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On November 12 2011 09:09 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 08:51 BlackPaladin wrote:
Vs Renek FARM WRIGGLES THEN ZONE HIM
Vs FARM WRIGGLES THEN ZONE HER
Vs talon FARM WRIGGLES THEN ZONE HIM
fixed. Also, no fucking way you can beat a renekton early game playing aggressive. He's guaranteed to have creep advantage and can just constantly spam his shit while you'll run out of mana and your stun is only useful defensively.
Versing farm is OP.
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On November 12 2011 11:12 BlackPaladin wrote:
Early as in lvl ~1-3, maybe only 2 depending on his spec/runes/opening item. As long as you don't act retarded and take a fury q to the face you can win those trades and farm up for wriggles.
And I don't think you played vs a good riven before if you think irelia can outright beat riven so hard that you can zone her. Maybe I just know Navi's riven and how riven should play in my mind too well though lol
I've played both sides of the match up. Riven crushes irelia early levels super hard. Thats why you play defensively until you have wriggles. Unless riven also buys wriggles theres so way she can beat your massive sustain if you don't fuck up. Riven is somewhat vulnerable to ganks if she plays agressive because like talon and renek her spells push lane but she's weaker than both at escaping ganks especially after 6. Maybe she can keep even in lane despite your absurd armour and lifesteal but I doubt it, and if irelia gets a kill from gank or something the lane snowballs super hard and she zones you horribly. Even with wriggles though, armour stack combined with true damage and insane healing is just brutal.
Renek should also crush irelia early levels. I don't understand how you trade. What do you trade with? Your W does 15 damage at level 1 per auto hit, your E barely does damage, your q does decent damage but costs a lot of mana. Once renek hits level his E W Q E out has little to no counter because if you chase after him with Q you fight his creep wave also. I have no idea how you expect to beat a decent renek with boots with level 1 hiten style.
Honestly the general way to play irelia in all matchups is defensively farm until you get whatever item counters your lane opponent and level 4 hiten style. She is so good at farming to tower anyway. I also hate playing agressive pre 6 with anyone because early pushing your lane makes it very hard to safely cs because you have to go right close to tower and jungler will be level 4-5 with doublebuffs and looking for an easy unwarded lane to gank. After 6 at least you'll have wards and on irelia you actually have some real damage.
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I actually agree with all of slayer's opinions on irelia matchups. Every early lane dominator, you just open cloth + 5, farm wriggle's and then fuck them in the face. Irelia with wriggle's is super duper fucking retarded, she gets like 50 hp/auto attack back so you can just pick fights and zone them with 130 armor off of just wriggle's + tabi and if you actually lose HP in trades... guess what!? while their shit's on CD, you can just keep autoing creeps for like 250 hp/5 level regen.
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United States37500 Posts
Irelia is supposed to be an immoveable object in lane, not the unstoppable force. zz
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So what masteries do you guys run on Irelia now?
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probably 21/9/0
offensive tree takes a massive dump on every other tree atm, not sure why you'd run another tree tbh.
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How does irelias CC reduction, tenacity, and juggernaught stack?
I was thinking 9/21/0 on irelia, getting the 3 AD, attack speed, 10% arpen and ghost/exhaust/ignite masteries.
Is everyone still taking flash or if the FotM factor and range and cd nerf making people switch to ghost? From what I hear about 21 offense AD junglers (boots+3 no pull clear on xin WTFFF) seems like flash would be just as needed as ever. Maybe ghost exhaust and exhaust that fucker.
Full attack speed marks combined with the 6% attack speed from offense and 10% arpen will probably make wriggles irelia even more absurd in lane. If you don't need wriggles its still OP because of wits end and hiten style + the 10% arpen works well with your ultimate and Q. (Also if you're going 21 offense executioner+your ultimate will probably hurt. Irelias ult does deceptively high damage. And by deceptively high I mean more than Lee sins ultimate and with 0.4 more AD ratio and 2.0 AP ratio)
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They stack multiplicatively. So say 3 champions nearby (40% reduction on passive):
1 - {(1-0.4)*(1-.35)*(1-.1)} = 65% reduction. You get 61% without Juggernaut, so it's rather weak. Defense past 9 gives you 3 hp/5, 8% cdr at level 18, Initiator, and 1.5% damage reduction + Juggernaut. In offense past 9 you get 4%crit/Lethality, 6 armor pen, Executioner, and your choice of 3 points (probably Havoc). Either spec would work based on the lane matchup, but Lethality and Executioner are very good talents.
EDIT: I wonder how good Cleanse+Ghost is for a lane-sustain build. You are ridiculously hard to gank (removing the exhaust/ignites that would otherwise kill you), and late game with Cleanse up and 21/9/0 you are immune to cc (87% cc reduction for 4 seconds) and can initiate/dive/chase squishies like a boss with a Wit's End + tank build. Of course you already do that, but Cleanse/Ghost makes you even better at it.
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On November 12 2011 07:24 zulu_nation8 wrote:
How do you guy decide whether to max Q or E after W? I've been maxing Q a lot since it feels like I get more burst with the extra auto Q applies and the lower CDR makes lasthitting easier. Also how do you guys think Irelia does vs Riven/Wukong/Talon/Renek top? In my experience Irelia goes even or shits on all of them after a certain level. But vs. Renek and Riven you really need to play passive early.
should always max q before e. You only need the e for the stun. Rarely should you ever use E as an ability to do damage with.
the real question is whether or not to max Q or W first. It's usually based on how the game flow is going. Usually for me, I tend to be outlaning my opponents in solo lane pretty hard, so I actually prefer to max Q out first (with 1 point in w). But there are times where I know that I can not actually keep up in a solo lane against certain champions, I go for sustain, with W max first.
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EPT
