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Decypher
United States37 Posts
1) What makes her so underplayed now? Is it that just doesn't fit into the current meta or is she underpowered in the state that she is in right now? Do other AP mids do what she does but better? 2) How well does she match up against the AD casters and bruisers in mid lane? I'll be waiting for that guide Odds  | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
2. My guess is she can punish them really hard, but you probably need a specialized rune page to do it. Edit: Also people's response whenever I pick Cass in solo que is "WTF? Haven't seen a Cass in forever." | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On January 24 2013 13:51 Decypher wrote: I have recently been thinking of buying Cass and try to make her one of my mains however I haven't seen...actually I've never seen a Cassopeia in a ranked or normal game in the last 6 months. So I have a few questions? 1) What makes her so underplayed now? Is it that just doesn't fit into the current meta or is she underpowered in the state that she is in right now? Do other AP mids do what she does but better? 2) How well does she match up against the AD casters and bruisers in mid lane? I'll be waiting for that guide Odds I used to main Cass. First off, she got nerfed and nerfed and nerfed patch after patch a while ago. (abyssal nerf, wota nerf, i think her base damages got nerfed..) Secondly, she has no escapes, and is squishy, meaning that any ad with a gap closer just kills her. Third, she is really short range which means you need to build tanky to surive and when you do that your damage is just subpar. (Especially since she does run out of mana pretty fast and seems some kind of mana regen/base mana) Also, with being able to start pure sustain one of her huge advantages (lane harass) is now gone as people can just pot through it. Shes just outclassed by current mids. | ||
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La1
United Kingdom659 Posts
i played a few games with her this season but you have to be super careful, see the above post as to why, I think she has her place, but the champions she demolishes are not played so she is not played. (unless they FP ryze ) then you can just trolrololol him :D | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
I do think that if you're an absolute monster at Cass, you'll carry games almost like no other ap (watch Toyz play Cass in soloq, that shit is no joke) | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
I think she is fine, but her lack of mobility means that you won't have much map presence. | ||
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nanoscorp
United States1237 Posts
How do people feel about building her similarly to Ryze? RoA seems like a good start if you want a hp buffer and some additional sustain. Tear->AA->Seraph's takes advantage of easy spamming, but seems like a gamble if you need to go hard for either AP or durability. Anyone played with glacial shroud items on her? IBG lets her put down a ton of soft cc. I generally avoid CDR items on her, but it does help ease the pain of an E on an un-poisoned target or a missed Q when you need one. I like RoA->tear->boots1->dcap,AA, boots2->then it gets fuzzy, liandry's? IBG? rylai's? voidstaff? zhonya's? lichbane? depends what you're facing I guess. Eve-style cassi could work too? Thinking dring+DFG+mobility boots as core, shove the lane then go terrorize elsewhere? Her kit is great for ganks at towers, good burst from range, speed for diving if you can hit a Q, zoning with W? Just gotta make sure your opponents don't just turn around and kill you =D | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On February 02 2013 17:43 nanoscorp wrote: Still really interested to see how she's played at high ELO, down to item builds, runes, masteries. Haven't caught many Cass games in the LoL client spectator mode or on streams. If anyone knows streamers to watch (besides Toyz, already tune in there whenever possible) post away. How do people feel about building her similarly to Ryze? RoA seems like a good start if you want a hp buffer and some additional sustain. Tear->AA->Seraph's takes advantage of easy spamming, but seems like a gamble if you need to go hard for either AP or durability. Anyone played with glacial shroud items on her? IBG lets her put down a ton of soft cc. I generally avoid CDR items on her, but it does help ease the pain of an E on an un-poisoned target or a missed Q when you need one. I like RoA->tear->boots1->dcap,AA, boots2->then it gets fuzzy, liandry's? IBG? rylai's? voidstaff? zhonya's? lichbane? depends what you're facing I guess. Eve-style cassi could work too? Thinking dring+DFG+mobility boots as core, shove the lane then go terrorize elsewhere? Her kit is great for ganks at towers, good burst from range, speed for diving if you can hit a Q, zoning with W? Just gotta make sure your opponents don't just turn around and kill you =D I go Tear first, then sorc boots -> HG -> Liandry's -> Rylai's -> Archange's; Abyssal, Zhonya, Void Staff, and DCAP are also good choices depending on the situation. I don't recommend DFG at all. She doesn't synergize with the CDR whatsoever and the damage amplification is fairly useless because she doesn't do burst. | ||
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
I've never really had problems with Akali, just ult her if she tries to dash to you, then blow her up. If you have a pink ward, there's nothing she can do. I've also found a point in w helps, because her ability to reposition quickly means you need to get a poison on her fast in some situations. Also abyssal's first helps you survive her burst. And a giant's belt too. | ||
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
On February 03 2013 02:33 zer0das wrote: I wouldn't build Cass at all like Ryze. Rylai's is so important on Cass. I usually get Rylai's/tear/abyssal's scepter in some order, then deathcap, and go from there. I've never really had problems with Akali, just ult her if she tries to dash to you, then blow her up. If you have a pink ward, there's nothing she can do. I've also found a point in w helps, because her ability to reposition quickly means you need to get a poison on her fast in some situations. Also abyssal's first helps you survive her burst. And a giant's belt too. I actually typed that out when I died level 7 to her for the second time. Once I had a giants belt I was destroying her. I think it was just I was too squishy to utilise my chain dps before being one shot. Pretty much managed to single handedly turn around the game with good ults and focus/kiting in fights. Won the game with 14-6-10. Nice guide, I'm not even a mid laner, but the way this guide is written made me wanna be aggressive mid with her so bad. Thank you OP ^^ | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On February 03 2013 01:56 LOLItsRyann wrote: What are you supposed to do against akali? I got fb level 4, second she hits 6 she destroys me In S2 it used to be a very easy match up because even though she would absolutely dominate you post-6, she wouldn't even survive to 6 against Cassiopeia. But I suspect things changed since then and I have yet to play this match up in S3. You shouldn't die to her at lvl 4 though. The most important item against Akali is the giant's belt. She has only a fixed amount of burst and once you can survive that you will win the trade. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 11 2013 08:13 zer0das wrote: It's not actually that safe of a counter if you have no idea what you're doing. Easiest way to beat Ryze early (ie level 2-3 or so) is let him walk up and rune prison you- while the animation is going off you have a free q (since you know exactly where he's going to stand), then just wail on him with e until he's dead (and ignite him), since you do more damage than he does. A lot of bad Ryze's get surprised by this. Don't attempt this until the enemy jungler reveals where he is, or you're just asking to die. It's not exactly a cake walk matchup because the enemy jungler is generally going to be all up on your grill- having them in your lane constantly isn't exactly super uncommon. You should generally win 2v2 fights if your jungler shows up and you do your job. Still, Cass isn't exactly super easy to play in teamfights, so if you aren't used to her, it can be difficult to leverage the any advantage if you get ahead. And if you get behind, Ryze is still Ryze... Max e first is fine, although 2-3 levels of q helps you farm. Also warding properly so you know where the enemy jungler is helps a lot (ie, ward one side so you can favor the other side and walk away that way). Cass is really bad at dealing with multiple people in her face when she isn't expecting it, so try not to ever get in that situation in the first place. I also find getting a fast Abyssal's Scepter+Giant's Belt helps a lot- if you survive the initial burst from Ryze, you do a lot more sustained damage than him. Also Cass is super squishy, you generally need to run hp/level seals on her because her health at level 18 is among the lowest in the game (8th lowest). Thanks for the advice, it's what I found out too (I fucked up and ended up pushing him to tower, then despite standing where I thought was "safe" he flash-W to initiate the first gank. I survived it, but with Elise always sitting near mid warding deep enough is risky, so he got to 6 pretty much in one piece). So far I've rushed Grail and sorcs, then didn't really knew what to build (Abyssal for more MR, Morellonomicon when Singed fed an AD Sion 6-0 and we only had an ignite to deal with his ult, Seeker's whenever I needed armour), I remember warmogs Cass being a thing during s2, and revolver -> rylai being the go-to at one point too (when it was the same with Brand), but apart from the "obvious" core rylai and luxury liandry's I'm a bit lost at what to build. Well, not exactly lost, but I feel I have a lot of choice while being unable to pin-point a core (apart from something generally tanky). I've really enjoyed the teamfights, even though we were always behind (I've lost my lane every single time, tho only feeding once, and we lost every game so I found solace in the fact that sometimes I did the best out of all 5), especially the kiting part. It's not about killing, but pulling off a good ult and managing to kite those tanky mofos for so long that your team can do well 4v2-3 and managing to get away afterwards, it feels very rewarding and enjoyable. I remember the masteries in s2 being 9-21-0 for some Cassiopeia players, does it still hold true? I tend to go 9-0-21 on all of my mids, but Cass probably benefits less from %exp and CDR than other mids, though the %MS is always good to have. Maybe I should try to get more defense in my masteries and use ignite instead of barrier, so put more pressure on my lane opponent during early levels like you suggest. About starting all pots, does her passive really allow for such a low mana pool early on? Between HP seals and no charm/flask/mana pots, I'd have thought she'd get oom fast, esp. if played aggressively. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
As far as masteries go, I generally go 9/0/21, but 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 would also probably work (or 9/21/0). I don't play enough Cass to really comment on which is best (she's pretty situational these days), but I suspect 21/0/9 is. I've had pretty good success with 9/0/21 though. I usually go Rylai's/Abyssal's Scepter/Deathcap. Depending on the matchup, prioritize Abyssal's over Rylai's. After that it depends- Liandry's is quite good on her, but I get it super late if ever. I like tear on her just because I loooove Seraph's (and I never can rely on blue buffs in solo que -.-), but it is probably not ideal. WOTA is pretty good on her, as is Zhonya's. Twin Shadows can be quite good too. She does have a lot of options, I find myself wishing she had an extra slot or two quite often. | ||
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Agnosthar
631 Posts
I think the Eve build on Cassi is actually pretty poor. Cassi isn't a burst mage, there are better picks if you want roaming and burst potential. It might work, but that's just down to solo queue mechanics, you could do it better with someone else I'd wager. I prefer building her tanky. I like Tear & Cata into RoA with a Haunting Guise quite a lot if I can get away with it. Liandry and Rylai feel essential. Cassi has the highest sustained damage out of almost all other AP's except maybe Karthus and Ryze, so building tanky lets you output more damage than a glass cannon build, unless their team has nothing to punish you for building that way. I don't like Zhonya as much because Cassi is a kite champion who has zero damage when in stasis and generally you'll die if they get on top of you with or without the item. I'd rather build items that stop them getting into range like Rylai's, or damage to kill them before/when they do like Deathcap. Obviously vs champions like Zed an hourglass is good, but I wouldn't want to build Zhonya unless forced to. I tend to have problems dealing with heavy jungle pressure and roaming champs as Cassi though. It feels like I have to extend quite heavily to put enough pressure on champions to stop them roaming, and that leaves me open to ganks even with lots of warding. Anyone got advice on how they deal with that kind of thing? (e.g vs ahri mid with xin zhao/jarvan jungle feels pretty hard to stop) | ||
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
Personally I find that advancing with Cass is too risky unless I know where their jungler is or I know their jungler sucks. Usually I like to shove the lane and then go do wolves or wraiths. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 11 2013 12:18 SagaZ wrote: Spectral wraith spirit looks absolutly beast on her It does not work on lane minons just re-stating. | ||
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
On March 11 2013 12:18 SagaZ wrote: Spectral wraith spirit looks absolutly beast on her Also, the spellvamp is only 1/3rd since her E counts as an AoE skill to prevent abuse. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On March 11 2013 12:41 LazyFailKid wrote: Also, the spellvamp is only 1/3rd since her E counts as an AoE skill to prevent abuse. Its still strong on her, she gets a ton of vamp just from her consistent damage output, and it allows her to MURDER objectives and jungle camps. All the stats are strong on her. | ||
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