EPT[Champion] Cassiopeia - Page 9
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On March 11 2013 15:01 sob3k wrote: Its still strong on her, she gets a ton of vamp just from her consistent damage output, and it allows her to MURDER objectives and jungle camps. All the stats are strong on her. I feel that with revolver you can duel a lot of junglers one on one. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 11 2013 21:20 Sufficiency wrote: I feel that with revolver you can duel a lot of junglers one on one. But when ARE you dueling a jungler one on one? (honestly, I feel that once you have your ult, you can 1v1 anyone that tries to jump on you. Stun them and melt them.) Revolver doesn't really help you in larger fights (most notably, jungler ganking you, and any fight 2v2 or bigger.) where you're more likely to get burst down than slowly killed. Guise/Rylais/items with resists do. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On March 11 2013 17:23 Lmui wrote: I like Athenes on Cass, she needs some form of mana regen or a mana pool in order to shove the lane and the bit of CDR it gives is really nice since it lets her keep her Q speedboost up continuously if you hit it. I've generally gone Athene's -> sorcs+guise -> rylais -> liandry's. I'm pretty mixed about spellvamp since with poison ticking on two to three targets and the constant e spam, you're gaining a pretty massive amount of health per second, almost as much as an ad carry does but on the other hand, putting a revolver anywhere in your build feels awkward and delays your small skirmish items such as sorcs/guise which are extremely important to get before an aegis or bulwark is completed on the other team. I would never go Athenes on Cass, she does not need the excessive mana regen provided by it. If you keep her passive up she is easily one of the best tear stackers in the game, and the tear is easily enough to keep you full of mana as long as you don't spam E all over the creep wave. The stacked archangels later is far far stronger than the athenes, and CDR is a poor stat to stack on cass because obviously her poison gets no benefit other than refreshed duration, and the way her E resets to .5 after striking a poisoned target has zero synergy with CDR. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On March 11 2013 21:56 sylverfyre wrote: But when ARE you dueling a jungler one on one? (honestly, I feel that once you have your ult, you can 1v1 anyone that tries to jump on you. Stun them and melt them.) Revolver doesn't really help you in larger fights (most notably, jungler ganking you, and any fight 2v2 or bigger.) where you're more likely to get burst down than slowly killed. Guise/Rylais/items with resists do. Even in teamfights, you are mostly there to kill tanks, so a revolver will help you survive a lot longer against 1-2 divers. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
Spell vamp on her is a waste of space ; flask and pots work for the laning phase, and you die too quickly in team fights for it to matter anyways. A ruby crystal would give you more health than the spellvamp from a revolver...4% total lifesteal from a champion with 1500 health is 60 health, and thats assuming you kill the champ. 180/(12/3%) = 4500 dmg that you must deal AFTER resists in order to heal the same amount that a red crystal would give you straight up. Spectral wraith or WotA is 180/(20%/3) = 2700 dmg you have to deal after resists in order to heal for a ruby crystal. It's not worth the gold at all, considering you're prolly the first one they want to burst anyways. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Tear is alright, it gives her a huge mana pool but it does squat, even after it's upgraded unless you're also getting a RoA.. 2.2k mana gives you ~500 hp shield (realistically you'll get ~350-400) and ~120 AP from seraphs which honestly does almost nothing compared to rylais or liandry's. You're literally trading away her insane early/midgame power for a mediocre lategame item. Dorans - With the new doran's passive (You can generally clear the wave with 3x Q, one W), you get insane lane domination and easy wraith taking. Getting two feels like it's overkill but sitting one a single dorans makes life without blue buff easy. I usually grab a dorans or two + seekers against AD mids since the majority of them are assassins (Cass has the damage to go toe to to with every AD assassin out there, if you hit your poisons). Chalice - My personal favourite item. It gives you more mana regen than the old double dorans used to give in most cases and just sitting on this til late game works really well. I've tried upgrading it to grail but the cdr - while nice - doesn't help too much. It removes the nasty speed stutter cass has between when Q's land which makes chasing down people easier but doesn't do much beyond that. The MR helps a lot when dealing with bursty mids like diana. As long as you don't die to the initial combo, you win any extended trade. Essentially what I advocate: Dorans + seekers vs AD mids, chalice vs AP. As for spellvamp, don't. It's pretty terrible now. Start the game with a flask + ward + pot and as long as you remember to use the flask, it'll heal you more over the course of a teamfight than a wota will for a hefty portion of the game. After a mana item, liandry's + rylais is pretty core since it allows you to rip apart everyone, tanks or squishies. I personally like having sorcs+liandry's+rylai's+abyssal + mana item + void/dcap/hourglass depending on the game | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On March 17 2013 19:02 Lmui wrote: Alright. I went and played ~10 games with Cassiopeia (I'm plat II atm, reasonably high ranked), with a mix of tear/chalice/dorans. Tear is alright, it gives her a huge mana pool but it does squat, even after it's upgraded unless you're also getting a RoA.. 2.2k mana gives you ~500 hp shield (realistically you'll get ~350-400) and ~120 AP from seraphs which honestly does almost nothing compared to rylais or liandry's. You're literally trading away her insane early/midgame power for a mediocre lategame item. Dorans - With the new doran's passive (You can generally clear the wave with 3x Q, one W), you get insane lane domination and easy wraith taking. Getting two feels like it's overkill but sitting one a single dorans makes life without blue buff easy. I usually grab a dorans or two + seekers against AD mids since the majority of them are assassins (Cass has the damage to go toe to to with every AD assassin out there, if you hit your poisons). Chalice - My personal favourite item. It gives you more mana regen than the old double dorans used to give in most cases and just sitting on this til late game works really well. I've tried upgrading it to grail but the cdr - while nice - doesn't help too much. It removes the nasty speed stutter cass has between when Q's land which makes chasing down people easier but doesn't do much beyond that. The MR helps a lot when dealing with bursty mids like diana. As long as you don't die to the initial combo, you win any extended trade. Essentially what I advocate: Dorans + seekers vs AD mids, chalice vs AP. As for spellvamp, don't. It's pretty terrible now. Start the game with a flask + ward + pot and as long as you remember to use the flask, it'll heal you more over the course of a teamfight than a wota will for a hefty portion of the game. After a mana item, liandry's + rylais is pretty core since it allows you to rip apart everyone, tanks or squishies. I personally like having sorcs+liandry's+rylai's+abyssal + mana item + void/dcap/hourglass depending on the game its literally never good to go chalice over tear, you get more than enough mana to spam continuously with a tear, and tear turn into a hugely cost efficient item lategame, whereas chalice turn into grail, which: A. you don't need the excess mana regen or passive from ever B. CDR has terrible synergy on cass, having basically no effect on her Q, and actually no effect on her E, which is always reset to .5 on poison. C. is not nearly as cost efficient statswise as the seraphs. the shield is mega-good for surviving burst in teamfights saying archangels staff does nothing its so nonsensical I don't even understand it, its by far one of the most cost efficient AP items in the game, it gives huge stats. There is a reason you have to charge it up, and cass is probably top 3 at doing that in the game. | ||
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Lightswarm
Canada967 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
As for survivability, rylai/warmogs Cass actually had a surge of popularity (or was it straight-up warmogs, kinda like Anivia's bullshit base values allow her to build whatever items andd still be relevant till late midgame?) near the end of s2. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On March 18 2013 07:16 Lightswarm wrote: cassiopeia seems to me like a squishier version of ryze. i feel like there isnt enough ap tanky items in the game to make her viable enough. cdr isnt really the problem since all her cd are really short anyways. she just doesnt survive the bursts from all these ad bruisers. also, she doenst really have a reliable cc, so she is in effect a full on dmg dealer. she just needs more survivablility and she would be fine in the meta I think she still does more raw DPS than Ryze. It's just that she can't just run in and snipe ADC like Ryze can =\ | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Edit: Never mind, since you can spam Q constantly from the fountain you can just stack the tear in under 20 min. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
It's a much more cost effective way to get 20% vamp and the extra passive lets you chunk through baron/dragon/buff camps incredibly fast. Your team gains so much buff control when you build this and since you have 20% vamp from an already very cost effective item. There are a few fights in the linked video where that 20% vamp saved his life and in one instance he heals for half his HP after just 2 jungle camps. Here's an example build by Bischu used in the game I linked: tear, guise, revolver, boots, SotSW, deathcap. | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On April 13 2013 01:04 Ghost-z wrote: Since Wota is not as strong as it used to be in season 2, has anyone considered building Spirit of the Spectral Wraith on Cass? http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_of_the_Spectral_Wraith It's a much more cost effective way to get 20% vamp and the extra passive lets you chunk through baron/dragon/buff camps incredibly fast. Your team gains so much buff control when you build this and since you have 20% vamp from an already very cost effective item. There are a few fights in the linked video where that 20% vamp saved his life and in one instance he heals for half his HP after just 2 jungle camps. Here's an example build by Bischu used in the game I linked: tear, guise, revolver, boots, SotSW, deathcap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJJ3-tTpIrk One of the main reasons he did so well that game is because of the other teams teamcomp. Cass is weak vs assasains and bruisers that jump on her with cc. Brand is basically just dodge his shit and your good, shyvana is LOL vs cass, and hecarim is the only scary person for him, and ad kennen is short range enough to make cass very good vs him. You will not get a teamcomp that nice every game as cass. But yes, she has potential and vamp cdr jungle item (wtf is name) is pretty good on her. Bischu did delay his liandries very late though for it. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
1) It does %current HP damage, NOT %max HP. It gets weaker as the fights drag on longer. 2) It deals DoT damage over 3 seconds and it does NOT stack. Hitting another spell only refreshes the duration. 3) Cassiopeia wants to hit spells in rapid fire succession. Which means 3-4 spells during the 3 second DoT. 1020 gold is tied up in the value of Liandry's passive and Mpen. The combine cost is 980 which means you are essentially just buying the passive DoT since Guise already gives you Mpen. That 980 gold could instead be ~45 AP. Typical 3 second burst is a Q>E>E>E Liandry's from this combo gets you 6 seconds of DoT from Liandry's for your gold = 12% current HP 47 AP from this combo gets you 36+25+25+25 = 111 damage. 12% HP = 111 when your opponent has at least 925 HP (100-0 break even @ 1850) But because it is %current HP damage you're opponent will need much more than 925 HP because the DoT decreases as you continue to deal more spell damage. This also assumes you miss your 2nd Q. If you continue to chain your combos on an enemy the Liandry's DoT becomes less and less valuable. Typical 6 second burst is a Q>E>E>E - Q>E>E>E Liandry's from this combo gets you 9 seconds of DoT from Liandry's for your gold = 18% current HP 47 AP from this combo gets you 36+25+25+25+36+25+25+25 = 222 damage. 18% HP = 222 when your opponent has at least 1233 HP (100-0 break even @ 2466) Notice this damage assumes the target is not movement impaired. It also does not include bonuses from masteries or deathcap. Also the DoT becomes more effective when you are forced to switch targets in team fights and when multiple people get hit by Cass' W or Ult. Conclusion: Liandry's excels at burning down health on high HP targets and keeps Cassiopeia's damage higher when dealing AoE and constantly switching targets in team fights. However it is not very good at killing opponents 1v1 and almost needs the increased damage from CC to be cost effective. Haunting Guise is still a good item but I suggest never rushing Liandry's and only building it after Rylais. TL:DR = Get Liandry's only AFTER building Rylais! http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Liandry's_Torment | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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