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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 29 2012 09:49 Lightswarm wrote: just played a couple games of cass bot. its pretty funny dominating the other lane. found out that soraka isnt even needed for the support role XD I am not surprised. Lux + Soraka or Cassiopeia + Soraka are really good kill-lane combinations. It's really vulnerable to ganks though. | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
If they lob an E your way, they aren't using it on minions. Cass can push extremely easily and make it difficult for Lux to farm. It's quite hard for Lux to farm under tower because her abilities will aoe the wave and put several minions too low. Eventually she'll do enough damage with AoE that it won't matter. Anyway, you can usually bait a Q out by running toward them and then sidestepping at a certain distance. You have to feel out your opponent. Figure out if she's trying to lob E behind you (i.e. expecting you to backstep when you see it). If so, you can just continue forward. Once Q is down you can just go to town on her because she won't have anything threatening. E+auto hurts, but not nearly as much as your Q+E spam. Since Cass is very aggressive in lane and pushes frequently, you need to be diligent about warding and knowing where the enemy jungler is. If you're just sitting back and getting poked by Lux E while she farms, you're not playing the matchup right. Current Cass build is usually Rylai's into Deathcap. Revolver is out of style, but sometimes taken as a 3rd item, though often not taken at all. You can build her like any mage. | ||
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Lightswarm
Canada967 Posts
On July 29 2012 10:08 Sufficiency wrote: I am not surprised. Lux + Soraka or Cassiopeia + Soraka are really good kill-lane combinations. It's really vulnerable to ganks though. problem with lux is her long cd, whereas cass has basically no cd on anything. and if you are diligent with your warding, the other team should not be able to gank you at all since you have so much control over the lane | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:17 Lightswarm wrote: problem with lux is her long cd, whereas cass has basically no cd on anything. and if you are diligent with your warding, the other team should not be able to gank you at all since you have so much control over the lane But Lux also has longer range and she has a good CC that does not have 2 minutes CD. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 29 2012 16:35 Cloud9157 wrote: Who needs CC when you get constant ms buff so long as you land her qs? Besides, she has a slow, if she somehow still can't keep up with the enemy. Landing her Q won't save her. Most junglers have at least one way to reduce movespeed... many also have gap closers. They will catch you no matter how many Qs you land. Good luck trying to slow them with your W. It's only 15% at rank 1. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
Not saying she can go to tower and harass, but so long as she hovers around middle of the lane, she should be fine. Warding one side of the lane also helps. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 29 2012 22:36 h3r1n6 wrote: Also cass is one of the few champions able to turn a gank around into a double kill. When the cassio has ult up and jungler and mid run at her from the same angle, it can be very dangerous. In mid. Don't forget that when you are playing the dual lane, you will only be slightly ahead in level against the opposing jungler. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On July 30 2012 03:35 Sufficiency wrote: In mid. Don't forget that when you are playing the dual lane, you will only be slightly ahead in level against the opposing jungler. Well in bot with a support you are generally safer because of better ward coverage. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 29 2012 10:08 Sufficiency wrote: I am not surprised. Lux + Soraka or Cassiopeia + Soraka are really good kill-lane combinations. It's really vulnerable to ganks though. I'm not really convinced that anything with a soraka in it is a good kill lane. o_o; Seems like a support to lock them down for guaranteed QEEQEE would be a better kill lane. Taric or Ali or leona or something. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 10 2012 09:17 Shiv. wrote: What do you guys think of Haunting Guise / Abyssal against dual AP teams? I've seen Paradoxical get Guise into Deathcap as his core build, and I figured against low-medium amounts of MR on the enemy team the Guise/Sorc Shoes/Abyssal build works REALLY well. I've also experimented with Grail instead of Abyssal and it works like a charm. Opinions? If the enemy team doesn't have a lot of MRes AND the rest of your own team deals mostly physical damage, then going for Mpen items can work; the counter to Mpen is for the enemy team to itemize MRes, but all of them buying MRes would be cost-inefficient against your team that deals mostly physical damage, and if only some of them buy MRes then you can focus on the ones that don't buy it. If you're mid as Cass and also have a Kennen / Vlad / Swain / Rumble / Morde / Diana, etc. on your team then I would advice against going for an item build that gets countered pretty hard by a Negatron Cloak. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On August 10 2012 12:55 Zato-1 wrote: If the enemy team doesn't have a lot of MRes AND the rest of your own team deals mostly physical damage, then going for Mpen items can work; the counter to Mpen is for the enemy team to itemize MRes, but all of them buying MRes would be cost-inefficient against your team that deals mostly physical damage, and if only some of them buy MRes then you can focus on the ones that don't buy it. If you're mid as Cass and also have a Kennen / Vlad / Swain / Rumble / Morde / Diana, etc. on your team then I would advice against going for an item build that gets countered pretty hard by a Negatron Cloak. Those are all things I took into consideration. I dropped a good chunk of Elo the last couple of days and I sit around 1600 now - top/jungle combinations like Riven/Lee are extremely common, so people are inclined to itemize armor. Also, rushing Abyssal has nothing I've ever seen during my games down there - which might be anecdotical evidence, but it was one of the reasons to try the build. The most common mid laners seem to be Ori/Zyra/Diana, which tend to rush RoA or Rylai's for some strange reason. High amounts of MPen counter low amounts of MR and high amounts of HP, so I figured I'd give it a try. Seemed to work out really well, but I guess it's very niche. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 10 2012 09:17 Shiv. wrote: What do you guys think of Haunting Guise / Abyssal against dual AP teams? I've seen Paradoxical get Guise into Deathcap as his core build, and I figured against low-medium amounts of MR on the enemy team the Guise/Sorc Shoes/Abyssal build works REALLY well. I've also experimented with Grail instead of Abyssal and it works like a charm. Opinions? I will go ahead and say it's not a good idea. It's understandable to build HG on certain AP bruisers on the top lane and some assassins (e.g. LeBlanc) because they typically go after the squishes in teamfights. Cassiopeia typically just burst at whoever is close to her (typically a bruiser with high MR). Since most bruisers can easily achieve 100+ MR, you probably should just wait and get a void staff instead. Abysal is almost always good in mid, for almost any APs against any other APs. If I am not mistaken, it is very cost-efficient so long as the extra MR reduction can be meaningfully applied (i.e. don't get it if you have sorc boots and your lane opponent has 30 mr) | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:12 sylverfyre wrote: Even against a 100 MR target, Haunting Guise is still incredibly cost effective, especially if Abyssal is getting built at some point as well. Thing is, Rylais really opens up cassi's options for playing, because it means that once you start comboing somebody, it's incredibly hard for them to avoid your followup without flashing or you getting peeled because it's so much easier hitting Q on a target that's slowed (even only slightly - you only get 15% from E Rylais), meaning you can just keep sticking to them. Against a 100 MR target, HG is a decent item choice in terms of damage for your gold if you already have a bunch of AP from, say, a Death Cap, but that's not good enough IMO. You're locking yourself into a dead-end item that is comparable but not really better than the alternatives you could get for the same gold, which sounds like a crappy deal to me; I'd only consider getting HG if it's significantly superior damage-wise to same-cost alternatives. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:12 sylverfyre wrote: Even against a 100 MR target, Haunting Guise is still incredibly cost effective, especially if Abyssal is getting built at some point as well. Thing is, Rylais really opens up cassi's options for playing, because it means that once you start comboing somebody, it's incredibly hard for them to avoid your followup without flashing or you getting peeled because it's so much easier hitting Q on a target that's slowed (even only slightly - you only get 15% from E Rylais), meaning you can just keep sticking to them. I am 99.9% certain that it's not as effective as a void staff. As Cassiopeia you definitely need to be a threat to anyone. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 11 2012 02:54 Sufficiency wrote: I am 99.9% certain that it's not as effective as a void staff. As Cassiopeia you definitely need to be a threat to anyone. During a recent game bigfatlp played, he built Abyssal-> HG on Cassiopeia (maxing E first) against an Orianna. I am slightly troubled by the build because as I was watching the replay, I noticed Abyssal rarely helped him (Twin Fang has 700 range, Abyssal is 600... this is not accounting for travelling time). But he did get fed... so I don't know. | ||
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