EPT[Champion] Vayne - Page 3
| Forum Index > LoL Strategy |
|
starfries
Canada3508 Posts
| ||
|
locodoco
Korea (South)1615 Posts
On June 09 2011 14:59 NightWalks wrote: Had several games where enemy team had akali .... 1)I was fed with good dmg . Team fight starts . Akali jumps from bush/ledge etc . I'm either dead or run back to base 2)Akali was fed. Same as Nr1 only i was always dead. Shroud makes her untargetable by condemn and tanks don't see anything either to get her off me ... Atmogs let me live and add nice dmg / crit I also build Mogs against heavy burst like Blanc. AD route is totaly viable and works well aslong enemy team makes mystake of not attacking vayne. ad route is totaly viable and works well aslong as u dont suck with vayne and get focused by the other team | ||
|
Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On June 09 2011 14:59 NightWalks wrote: (...) AD route is totaly viable and works well aslong enemy team makes mystake of not attacking vayne. Bad players often make the mistake of "don't focus the tanks, go for carry" so they rush the carry, carry keeps the distance and his allies rape the entire enemy team without casualties. | ||
|
NightWalks
Latvia252 Posts
ad route is totaly viable and works well aslong as u dont suck with vayne and get focused by the other team So many ppl in LoL have the ''You suck'' mindset .... newer considered that enemy might be more skilled ? To realise that enemy in particular game is stronger and adapt accordingly/play more cautious isn't trait of being unskilled. Continuing to build offence and hurrr durrr feed on the other hand would be . Topic is about fact that vayne even if built tanky with AS still maintains presence in game / team fights . Against Akali you can just drop a vision ward as soon as she drops that shroud. Of course she might take you down anyways but it makes her much less annoying. Yeah had this thought and tried once . Ended up dead but at least my team poped akali. More reasonable would be to get oracle on tank ,but without premade it's not that easy. Anyways this is already kinda of topic // TL DR DPS focused vayne's bane is bursters | ||
|
locodoco
Korea (South)1615 Posts
On June 09 2011 17:08 NightWalks wrote: So many ppl in LoL have the ''You suck'' mindset .... newer considered that enemy might be more skilled ? To realise that enemy in particular game is stronger and adapt accordingly/play more cautious isn't trait of being unskilled. Continuing to build offence and hurrr durrr feed on the other hand would be . Topic is about fact that vayne even if built tanky with AS still maintains presence in game / team fights . Yeah had this thought and tried once . Ended up dead but at least my team poped akali. More reasonable would be to get oracle on tank ,but without premade it's not that easy. Anyways this is already kinda of topic // TL DR DPS focused vayne's bane is bursters .....i don't wanna bring elo into this,but i play in 2.1k+ elo and i scrim with or against clg and tsm regularly.no1 builds tanky on carrys cuz positioning is how u survive as carrys not fucking buying tanky items. building tanky items only hinders ur damage if u think tanky vayne with AS maintains presence in game try playing with or against a Ad vayne that knows how to position properly and compare the how much more presence the ad vayne brings | ||
|
dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
TL DR DPS focused vayne's bane is bursters Take exhaust; your problem is solved and you save 3000 gold. | ||
|
Psyonic_Reaver
United States4333 Posts
On June 09 2011 17:19 dnastyx wrote: Take exhaust; your problem is solved and you save 3000 gold. This. | ||
|
NightWalks
Latvia252 Posts
On June 09 2011 17:19 dnastyx wrote: + Show Spoiler + -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Show nested quote + TL DR DPS focused vayne's bane is bursters -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take exhaust; your problem is solved and you save 3000 gold. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This. kk i agree that it's a good solution. guess i have been too used to runing ghost/flash that didn't notice that vayne's pasive & ult will make up for droping ghost. | ||
|
Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
| ||
|
Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
Vayne doesn't need mana (low costs, manage mana correctly) and doesn't need AP. You're paying 100% for the proc and the possible route to Triforce. Since everybody calls me crazy, I decided to just run the numbers and show how it's an inferior choice: I went with lvl 9 stats as I'm assuming boots start + item rush. + Show Spoiler + Lvl 9 stats with sheen Base damage: 79 Q damage: 59.25 E damage: 90 + 100 Lvl 9 stats with pickaxe + long sword Base damage: 114 Q damage: 85.5 E damage: 107.5 + 117.5 Damage of Q -> E -> auto (without | with wallstun) Sheen: (79 + 79 + 59.25) + (90 | 190) + (79) = 386.25 | 486.25 AD: (114 + 85.5) + (107.5 | 225) + (114) = 421 | 538.5 Damage of Q -> auto x2 Sheen: (79 + 79 + 59.25) + (79) + (79) = 375.25 AD: (114 + 85.5) + (114) + (114) = 427.5 I went with maxing R > Q > E > W, as I'm certain sheen users will go for Q. I also realize the AD build costs 130 gold more, but I'm using long sword which is a pretty inefficient item. W is not included in the damage because it's not affected by sheen or AD. In conclusion, unless you're ONLY hitting Q and not autoattacking / comboing at all, sheen is worse. You could go triple doran blade for slightly more cost and have better damage AND extra doran stats, or you could just rush big AD items and do even bigger damage. The real problem is that if you start sheen you want to finish triforce, which I'm sure loses to comparable AD items as well, because you're only augmenting Q while AD augments autos + Q + E. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:44 Lanzoma wrote: I've given quite some thought to Vayne as all her skills are extremely strong and it's hard to find an optimal way to build her. You can justify skilling Q or E or W first and depending on your build and playstyle you can do comparable damage with either. One thing that drives me nuts, though, is building sheen on her. Vayne doesn't need mana (low costs, manage mana correctly) and doesn't need AP. You're paying 100% for the proc and the possible route to Triforce. Since everybody calls me crazy, I decided to just run the numbers and show how it's an inferior choice: I went with lvl 9 stats as I'm assuming boots start + item rush. + Show Spoiler + Lvl 9 stats with sheen Base damage: 79 Q damage: 59.25 E damage: 90 + 100 Lvl 9 stats with pickaxe + long sword Base damage: 114 Q damage: 85.5 E damage: 107.5 + 117.5 Damage of Q -> E -> auto (without | with wallstun) Sheen: (79 + 79 + 59.25) + (90 | 190) + (79) = 386.25 | 486.25 AD: (114 + 85.5) + (107.5 | 225) + (114) = 421 | 538.5 Damage of Q -> auto x2 Sheen: (79 + 79 + 59.25) + (79) + (79) = 375.25 AD: (114 + 85.5) + (114) + (114) = 427.5 I went with maxing R > Q > E > W, as I'm certain sheen users will go for Q. I also realize the AD build costs 130 gold more, but I'm using long sword which is a pretty inefficient item. W is not included in the damage because it's not affected by sheen or AD. In conclusion, unless you're ONLY hitting Q and not autoattacking / comboing at all, sheen is worse. You could go triple doran blade for slightly more cost and have better damage AND extra doran stats, or you could just rush big AD items and do even bigger damage. The real problem is that if you start sheen you want to finish triforce, which I'm sure loses to comparable AD items as well, because you're only augmenting Q while AD augments autos + Q + E. To be fair, if you're playing Triforce Vayne, you'd probably get Phage+Zeal before Sheen. Your numbers aren't wrong, and I still don't think Triforce compares to, say, BT+DBlades, but Sheen vs. Pickaxe+Longsword is a skewed comparison that's not really relevant. | ||
|
Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
I don't think the comparison is skewed either. I simply took items that gave pure AD to compare with Sheen proc, in terms of cost-efficiency. Any other stats would benefit either item path in exactly the same way, so it's moot. A skewed comparison would have been 3 dblades vs Sheen, which is so unfair it's not even funny. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 10 2011 04:07 Lanzoma wrote: How is it not relevant? Why would you get Phage+Zeal before Sheen? That's a 2k+ investment on stats that are marginally useful on a carry/assassin. The comparison would be even worse vs an AD build. You'd get Phage or Zeal first because they don't blow 835 gold on stats that do nothing for Vayne. From a DPS perspective, the only part of Sheen that does anything is the proc (granted HP, slow proc, and move speed aren't DPS stats easier, but they're also easier to factor into relevant discussions). | ||
|
Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
I don't see any reason to build either Zeal or Phage when I could have 2 dblades instead. Zeal is a good item, but it's effectiveness goes up as your AD does, and early game you don't have enough damage to make it jawsome. The speed boost is unnecessary because Vayne has no trouble chasing with passive or passive + ult. Phage is inferior statwise, the redeeming feature is the (unreliable) slow, which again Vayne doesn't need because chasing is not an issue. Afterwards, no combination of Zeal/Phage/Sheen (pick 2) is going to be better than 2 dblades + BF Sword, and the cost difference is about 100-200 gold. Honestly, there's no reason to build sheen as it's cost inefficient by itself, and if you intend to make it a triforce, it's cost inefficient because so many stats are superfluous to Vayne's kit and AD scales much better than the proc. What is it about these comparisons that doesn't satisfy you? | ||
|
GiygaS
Canada1043 Posts
| ||
|
wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On June 14 2011 08:54 GiygaS wrote: So the real question is: how do YOU build Vayne? http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=1270. Like this. I went 12-0-9 in my game today. Vayne so OP :[ | ||
|
LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
| ||
|
Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
On June 14 2011 08:54 GiygaS wrote: So the real question is: how do YOU build Vayne? TL;DR: Like Chaox I only play Vayne bot with babysit, as I think that's where she's extremely retardedly OP. The reason for this is how fragile Vayne is, any (decent) strong solo laner will hurt you harder than you can hurt him before level 6. With that in mind... I run 21/0/9 with offensive rune setup. You want all the damage you can get because you'll be kept alive by your babysit, and cc > condemn into wall is GG. I start dblade if I can get away with it, boots + pots otherwise. You want to have boots, 2-3 dblades and BT/IE for mid game items. I think the real question is, IE or BT? IE lets you spike even harder if you get a crit, but if you can keep BT stacks you'll do more dps (while still spiking really hard if you condemn into wall) until you get to a certain crit %. Both will make you a killing machine, so it's a matter of circumstance. I personally like BT more. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 17 2011 04:23 Lanzoma wrote: TL;DR: Like Chaox I only play Vayne bot with babysit, as I think that's where she's extremely retardedly OP. The reason for this is how fragile Vayne is, any (decent) strong solo laner will hurt you harder than you can hurt him before level 6. With that in mind... There's also the fact that unlike most other solo laners, she doesn't have an AoE farm/push skill to help her control where the lane is. Vs lane opponents with strong pushing power, she can't really do much to stop them from forcing successive creep waves to your tower. | ||
|
Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
armor pen/flat armor/flat mr runes rush IE win every game | ||
| ||
