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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:48 Brees wrote: or endless harass on your actual AP carry that will actually do damage with spells 0o Unless your AP carry is orianna or someone else with that kind of ridiculous range, blue buff on kog can give your team unmatched ability to siege a tower without your team ever needing to directly engage the other team and initiate a teamfight. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
IE on Kog simply relies on the fact that IE is ridiculous right now and Kog's autoattack range is godlike. There also is the issue that currently Kog is usually taking the place of the physical ranged DPS and as such dealing physical damage isn't such a bad idea. You usually have plenty of magic damage from your solo lanes. Not sure why people rush BR though. Wit's End is so much better midgame. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On August 27 2011 03:18 NeoIllusions wrote: How does Malady compare with Wit's End? :O As far as I know it is roughly equal in terms of damage, but Wit's End also has a pretty significant amount of MR. So it's almost straight up worse. I might be wrong, but a while ago I tried both on Teemo and Malady never seemed to deal more damage than Wit's End so I put Malady on the "never get this item"-list. Once again. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
Also I second the notion that IE builds are overrated in this thread, at least for the wrong reasons. They're way way weaker before IE is done and even after the holy IE + PD + LW combo they're still not as cost effective as on hit builds. They have three pluses not already mentioned: they're probably stronger super super late game, they're better for turret pushing, and they work with lifesteal. If you need a champ dead though nothing on Kog will do it faster than on hit items. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On August 27 2011 02:32 spinesheath wrote: BR/Wit's End offers ASpd which is what Kog's W scales best with. It also deals magic damage so you can go MPen without feeling bad about it. IE on Kog simply relies on the fact that IE is ridiculous right now and Kog's autoattack range is godlike. There also is the issue that currently Kog is usually taking the place of the physical ranged DPS and as such dealing physical damage isn't such a bad idea. You usually have plenty of magic damage from your solo lanes. Not sure why people rush BR though. Wit's End is so much better midgame. If you're stuck at bot rushing BR actually DOES something. (Pickaxe + Razor so much more usefull stats for botlane than the finished Wits End) For Solos (never played him solo tbh) I'd guess it should depend entirely on your lane.(AP/AD etc.) Ideal case you want the BR as early as possible, but the Wits End once teamfights really break out. It's just so damn good and cost effective there. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
If I don't get the farm for a BF sword immediately, it's an easy choice. And if I get the IE, BR is always my next item. People building tanky is just too prominent for me not to get it. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
I pretty much settled on 21 0 9 for bot, not much experience with solo yet but I assume 9 21 0 is the way to go. FOR ITEMS. I'm playing around with Manamune and I really like it a lot. It's kinda similar to Manamune on Corki and helps so much with ult all game. Right now my core is Manamune -> Wits End. Then it depends. Enemy team rather squishy, I favor IE builds, enemies rather bulky I favor BR next. I'm debating to get rid of Wits End for the IE builds in favor of Manamune -> zeal -> IE -> standard AD crap. If I'm going for the AD route my defense item is usually Banshees, if I'm going for the BR route I'm going for Frozen Mallet. Also, gunblade is pretty boss on Kog (better than like BT), playing around when to get that thing best atm. HOWEVER, THE #1 REASON TO PLAY KOGMAW IS /JOKE. IT RAISES TEAM MORALE AND MAKES YOU WIN GAMES. True story. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
I really like BT into PD, because it really lets you practice the orb walk/kiting or whatever you want to call it. Gotta try manamune though that sounds fun. I usually get into trouble spamming ult too much. I never really notice the Wit's End MR benefits, I think just grabbing the zeal then heading to PD is better. Update me on your adventures, I always play AD kog in solo Q given the chance. | ||
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Leffrey
14 Posts
15/0/15 Masteries, going down to + AD in offense and + movement speed in utility because of how slow Kog is. I take Flat AD reds and Quints, flat mp5 yellows and AP/level blues. The core item build is to go Doran's, boots, doran's(if you need to) into trinity force. For building trinity you should grab a sword and a tome along with a zeal, then finish the trinity. After trinity you build your Madred's. The idea behind the build is to skill R-W-E-Q and use your range to harass and last hit, and build boots/zeal first so that you can use your movement speed to position for ganks. You can also kite like a boss if you can get red or are good with your e. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
as well as full buff duration....probably the most important part since red is so crucial on him | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On September 02 2011 10:22 Leffrey wrote: I have been doing this on Kog for most of my games with him, 15/0/15 Masteries, going down to + AD in offense and + movement speed in utility because of how slow Kog is. I take Flat AD reds and Quints, flat mp5 yellows and AP/level blues. The core item build is to go Doran's, boots, doran's(if you need to) into trinity force. For building trinity you should grab a sword and a tome along with a zeal, then finish the trinity. After trinity you build your Madred's. The idea behind the build is to skill R-W-E-Q and use your range to harass and last hit, and build boots/zeal first so that you can use your movement speed to position for ganks. You can also kite like a boss if you can get red or are good with your e. Why on earth would you run flat mp5 yellows? The per levels overtake them by the point where you actually need mana on him. He isn't exactly a spam monster in lane pre lvl 6. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
I pick 21 9 0 when I assume a rather easy laning phase to maximise my damage output. 9 21 0 is for really rough times (probably solo lanes too). (Think Kog/Janna vs MF/Taric). 9 0 21 is kinda middle of the road, utility is great and all, but I feel the other two outshine it either lategame or earlygame. @Brees: 1 8 21 is imo flat out horrible. Not chosing MPen makes Wits End/BR bad choices (just the OPTION to get em is great) and it makes your W do less damage. It's just bad. On September 02 2011 04:13 bumatlarge wrote: I like to strategically position dance where I think they will CV. I really like BT into PD, because it really lets you practice the orb walk/kiting or whatever you want to call it. Gotta try manamune though that sounds fun. I usually get into trouble spamming ult too much. I never really notice the Wit's End MR benefits, I think just grabbing the zeal then heading to PD is better. Update me on your adventures, I always play AD kog in solo Q given the chance. The main reasons why I keep staying away from both BT and PD: Bloodthirster is great on champs who have a mediocre range (aka not Tristana/Caitlyn) and on champs with strong AD ratios (think MF/Urgot). For straight up autoattackers IE is just plain better. Kog has horribad AD ratios and a pretty huge effective range. Also, Gunblade is just flat out better on him. After seeing LoCicero play around with switching out BT for Gunblade on Panth I started trying it on Kog. It's awesome. If you feel that you need lifesteal, get Gunblade. For real. So good. Phantomdancer is great on champs who want attackspeed AND crit chance. A part of me assumes that it's a bad idea on Kog if you DONT go the IE route. However, you're probably right when it comes to wits end being a bad idea of you want to build IE. For me it's just similar to Vayne... I feel SO BAD about building zeal -> IE -> PD on champs who have such insane synergy with attack speed. Vayne can get around that because BT is a great item on her, but as stated above it's pretty bad on Kog. I should try Manamune -> Zeal -> Gunblade. Trollololol. (The Manamune feels clutch to me too, especially considering I'm one of the guys who never got it on Corki botlane either, however I feel it's a pretty cool clutch item cause it solves so many early game issues at once.) About the Mres on Wits End: Basicly every single time you get Wits End you have in the back of your mind that your next "defensive" item will be Frozen Mallet and not Banshees. FM+Wits is boss. ---> If you're playing a game where you think BV is crucial, don't get Wits End, opt for one of the other routes. tl;dr: The real question about kog is not what items/masteries work on him, but WHEN they work on him. tl;dr #2: The other question is how to use your inventory slots since cheap items (Manamune/Wits etc.) are so boss on him. :/ | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
If anyone here can make Kog solo top work, please tell me how. (spines?) - I just can't get it to work, every single non-retarded laner shits all over me. Also my current main issue: Manamune feels so great all the way through mid/lategame. However, it's incredibly clutch for laning. You have even less presence than with anything else before the manamune is finished and by then a strong bot lane will have raped you all day long. Any idea how to fix that? | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
As for solo top Kog I'll defer to spine. I really haven't found a way of making it work unless you get lucky and the lane is retarded or some weird crap like Mundo. Most of the bruisers up top have dashes, sustainability, and do craptons of harass at the same time. In mid you can actually lane pretty well vs Annie but I haven't been successful vs stronger mids like Brand yet. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Generally top is bad for slow champs without escapes like Kog (and Ashe). You could try MSpd quints and ASpd marks, 3/3 MSpd mastery (probably 1/14/15), Exhaust+Flash, E W -> R>W>Q>E, Boots + 3 -> Boots2 + Zeal. No idea if that works though. You would kite as much as you can, and threaten Q + Exhaust for insane damage as soon as the enemy gets too close. No flashing away like a chicken. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
My problem about Kog lane choice goes kinda like this: -I'm okay bot but I kinda get shit on by every other strong AD/support lane, I don't even want to mention anti-AD/support lanes. (Am I doing it wrong? I just feel as if I can't trade vs any competent AD carry) -Mid? Against Oriannas, Brands, Morganas and all that other crap that one shots me if I ever not dodge a skillshot? No thx. Also then I have to deal with AP carries bitching about having to go top. -Top? If I can lane Teemo/Corki/Cait top, Kog has to work somehow, too. Besides Kog is one of those cases where levels are huge (kinda similar to Corki and Durpgot especially) But yeah, not escape kinda sucks balls. So far I was being a chicken and got some points in E early, I'll try Q>W and report back after being a brave battlekog. :S | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
On September 03 2011 04:11 spinesheath wrote: Seriously with this EU style bot lane crap people seem to have lost the ability to lnae in the safest lane there is. Agree 100%. Try to solo mid with an AD carry nowadays and people are like "OMG, you can't solo vs <insert random AP carry here> on Trist/Kog/Ashe/whatever" when you had to do this all the time before the EU meta took over. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
the magic pen mastery sucks dick. | ||
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