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Kog Maw was 9 months old and without a thread. Since no one of higher Elo evidently wants to make it, I bring you this one. Since I'm only 1260 ranked feel free to make suggestions and, if necessary, corrections. I made a spreadsheet or something so if you like looking at some DPS numbers just take a gander here. That version is editable too so feel free to play around a bit if you can figure out my setup (it's a bit messy, I apologize).
Onward to item builds and stuff.
A Newbie's Guide to Kog'Maw
Kog Maw, even after the buffs, is almost the epitome of what it means to be a ranged carry. Kog can do a *lot* of damage later in the game and is pretty much only matched by Tristana in terms of raw DPS. Unlike Tristana (and every other ranged carry but Twitch) though, he has no escape and as a result dies really fast. Your best defense is to not get focused, which requires both good positioning on your part and a team that can save your behind.
The build I think is optimal is a lot like the recommended build, but that doesn't tell you what masteries or runes to pick or how to lane.
Ability Order
I prioritize R > W > E > Q, with 1 point in Q early if you really want the 10% AS.
Leveling W first is obvious. You need at least 1 point in E to not instantly die to ganks or aggression against you. However, I like adding in more points because having the slow be better can help a lot against ganks and if they overextend towards you to prevent their escape and make Rs easy to land.
Just as importantly though, Leveling E before Q let's you farm a whole lot better and defend against pushes more easily. Since I like sorc shoes the -mr is also often overkill when you add malady and Q on top of that.
Masteries/Runes/Summoners
I run 21/0/9 with arcane mastery, havoc, buff duration, offensive mastery, and brute force. 21/0/9 is pretty standard on a ranged carry but more than that the last two masteries make last hitting much, much easier (and it's a PAIN IN THE BUTT when you only have 49 AD to start).
For runes I like AS/flat armor/flat mres/AS. If you're conservative with E and R you don't need mana regen and since everything in the universe is dangerous to Koggy I prefer to have them both. Movespeed quints are OK too.
For spells I'm running Exhaust/Flash at the moment because people say it's OP. but traditionally ranged carries run ghost instead of exhaust. Exhaust helps you 1v1, ghost lets you run away and chase.
Items
Basic Build -
Start boots + pots or cloth armor + pots depending on opponent and the roughness of the lane.
Then Malady/boots 1 -> Sorc shoes -> Wit's End and/or Bloodrazor in nearly any order.
Survivability. E.G. BV, QSS, Frozen Heart, and Frozen Mallet.
Cheap AS Build -
If you have no one with an attack speed buff on your team you can avoid bloodrazor and only buy SotD/Wit's/Malady for AS. This is actually slightly more efficient against opponents with less than 2500 health and 100 MR, so it earlier on it will kill squishies a lot faster. It leaves you short on item slots however.
If you really want to go glass cannon you can also buy MBR after this for over 600 DPS against the opponent I mentioned. If you want to try this you might want to switch your runes a bit though to avoid capping out on AS and wasting some of your cash if you plan on this.
Playing
Solo lane is nice but against most opponents you're going to be on your back foot. Begin passive. At level 3 of W you easily outrange any other ranged carry and can harass freely while they let you. When I play this is my most comfortable matchup.
You basically harass by outranging with W. After you get your ult you can get in/near W range, ult behind them, then W auto. They are forced to take your auto attacks or get hit by ultimate, sometimes both. However, if you do this against a strong laning assassin or melee DPS style character they will usually choose to rush you instead.
If you need to run away, ooze behind you before you flash, if you have flash. If you're burning everything in order to win a 1v1 against a melee, flash back from their blink, and ooze in front of you to force the fight to continue. When they reach you again, exhaust to murder their DPS. Careful of their exhaust if they take it, as it will murder your W dps then W will end and your DPS will continue to suck. This also applies to team fights, but you might want to save flash for flashing over a wall since you have really long range and can simply fire over it.
Against Assassins you really just need to wear them out faster than they wear you out, or else their superior burst will kill you. A pre-emptive exhaust right as they're going to commit helps here.
AP Kog
AP Kog was and still is pretty much a troll build that I wouldn't suggest for a solo lane (it's like AS Kog except you can't stand and fight in the hopes of out DPSing them). The #1 biggest misconception about AP Kog is that the R's AP ratio is 0.75 against champions; it isn't. The bonus damage only applies to base damage. As a result AP scales pretty darn sucky for Kog the rest of his abilities aren't hot scalers either. In other words, deathcap is a gigantic waste of cash on Koggy and you should feel ashamed for DOING YOUR TROLLING WRONG.
My old AP Kog build was Tear/sorc shoes/guise/DFG/Void Staff. It has kinks. You can do really high DPS with R with 40% CDR and max penetration but you're going to run out of mana really fast even with tear and blue buff. The Void staff is awkward and doesn't really help against tanky types. Turning tear into AA doesn't help you all that much. DFG is kinda awkward but having another nuke is helpful.
Whatever, AP Kog is troll, have fun with it. I'm too tired to write more at the moment.
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United States47024 Posts
Why 21/0/9? You build AS/magic damage so you don't really get much mileage out of Lethality or Havoc. Something like 15/0/15 or 9/0/21 seems like it would make more sense.
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Well as my first real post, i just want to give my thoughts on Kog'Maw.
I prio R > Q > W > E
Why prio like this?
It gives you the ability, when you acquire your madred's bloodrazor, to do some heavy dmg. Keep in mind that 3800 gold (if you decide to rush it without boots, otherwise it will be 4150 gold+wards), takes some time to farm. You will most likely be solo laning (or being babysat at bot) and will be able to lvl your W to lvl 4-5, before you acquire your Madred's Bloodrazor. This will, in my opinion, make you ALOT more deadly when you go back to your lane. 25% AS from your Q+40% AS from Madred's+your W+Madred's Unique=one deadly Kog'Maw.
For items i go something like you do OP, except i start with doran's shield. If it's going great on my lane and i perhaps have gotten a kill or two, i rush madred's bloodrazor asap. If not i will get 2 recurve bows or something similar, maybe some defense if i've fed.
I run a 9/0/21 aiming for utility mastery, quickness, reduced CD's etc. etc.
For runes i go MS quints, Magic pen marks, mp5/lvl and mres/lvl glyphs.
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I feel like Kog is more team-dependent than any of the other ranged carries. He's really, really easy to kill. If your team isn't doing well in front of you, you're toast. That said, he does RETARDED amounts of damage and basically will pentakill a team if left unmolested.
Why not add a manamune to Kog since he's so mana-intensive with his R-spam?
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Yeah I build Kog'Maw more like a mage with runes and masteries. I've got to say it feels much better than when I went 21/0/9 and built more common DPS runes.
Also I love Kog'Maw but it is just so hard to find a good team with him. If the enemy has an assassin or offtank champ then I found you have to have a good team or you will die too fast to do anything, regardless of how well I positioned myself. Though I'm probably not experienced enough as Kog.
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I run cleanse/flash kog, and I find he can actually beat some popular mid solos, with a little fines. When you mid solo, grabbing boots is probably always best, unless you are going to be fighting someone with an early closing attack, like irelia or akali. Some solo-mids cant really do much to a fast kogmaw, and when they choose to exchange hits, they will always come up short. I think vlad, karthus, ashe and caitlyn are in these lists, vlad with his really short range I find laughable easy to beat, caitlyn can only beat me if she gets successive skill shots off on me, and at a certain point I can ignore kartus' nukes and just gun for him and come out ahead. Thought certain solos seem to knock up kog maw really hard. I havent found a way to beat zilean, because double bomb then hasting away, I barely get 4shots in, and then im at 100 hp. Anyone with a closing attack as I said before makes kogmaw feel awful.
Don't solo top, because that is where these counters run wild, and the long tower to tower distance will make you tower hug, or you will start feeding. Also dual lane bottom needs a proper support teammate. I've only tried it out a few times, but if your teammate isn't acting with the objective of protecting you everytime both sides commit, you will die alot. You could probably even it out with the kills you get, but I find its much more effective to have an alistar or janna who can easily protect you and do whatever they want. Alistar is a perfect bodyguard for kogmaw for the rest of the game. Any time a team fight is imminent, just having kogmaw and alistar together, even in a 2v5, guarentees you a kill or two. Optimally, you would have an initiator, like amumu, go in and ult, and the other two members go to work. Kog goes in at the same time, targetting the threats first. It usually doesn't matter how tanky they are as long as you have malady+recurve bow. Wits end is icing on the cake, and madreds makes it so you can target whoever the hell you feel like and kill them in 5 seconds flat. Now alistar should stay with you, because if the enemy team is smart, there is that high burst douche who will be waiting for kog to commit. The second ali sees him get near kogmaw, he headbutts and keeps a perimeter around kog. If the other threats are out of range or dead, they can pursue. I's pretty great, because kog's max range with w is a little more the how far headbutt throws them. Proceed to chase, and usually a few good living artillery can finish them off. Remember to Q them before alistart headbutts, with sorc boots your R will make them melt.
I generally agree with the first build, but just make sure you get sorc boots, malady and a recurve bow. Thats all you need to competently do your job, and the enemies can't really build anything armor/MR wise to make you less effective, and just getting pure HP makes madreds a natural choice. Wit's End is great, if there are no hp heavy guys. Chalice isn't bad in the begining if they have a lot of AP, just don't try to delay the core. I have 2 wards on both bushes in mid at all times usually.
Kog needs a team built around him, so I wouldn't suggest pubbing with him, because it's basically: Is your team willing to build around Kog? If yes congrats. If not, is enemy team aware of how to deal with kog maw? If no, congrats. If yes, GG. It's also fun to baron in about 20 seconds.
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Yango: I can see 15/0/15 working, but as I said with 9/0/21 last hitting is really hard without at least some points in offensive mastery. If you have no problem last hitting without offensive mastery, go ahead and go 9/0/21. As for getting havoc I go the whole mile because I feel like it. I actually don't know if it works with item magic damage but if it does it seems worth it in my book.
Sponkz: Rushing Bloodrazor first is BAAD. NONOONO. Don't do it. DPS-wise it is horribly inefficient and is simply inferior to grabbing malady first (check the spread sheet, mah maths prove it). It's not just the target's Mres, it's the extra attack speed and magic damage from Malady that make BR only efficient after a magic attack speed item. And yeah, sure Q gives you some attack speed and penetration but that is for 4 seconds at close range. Moreover, Malady *by itself* is super efficient for your gold. Since it passes that efficiency on to bloodrazor, you only *gain* by building it first because late game it's just as good.
And what do you give up by going Q? The only move that gives you any chance of escape. Sorry, that seems really really stupid to me, because PEOPLE LOVE GANKING KOG MAW.
Also, my nerdy maths have shown that magic pen marks give you less DPS than attack speed marks do. Again, check the spreadsheet.
xDaunt: I kind of glossed over that but yes. I think this is actually another reason to take the duo lane and go EU style with Kog because you need your team to be ahead of you. Taking the solo puts too much burden on you when you need other targets to be focused instead of you.
zerg: Mage Kog is kinda interesting but in my experience is strictly inferior. As Kog your major threat will always be BAB, and BAB scales much better with AS than Mpen. 2.5 attack speed is around 4X the damage from when you started, whereas to get that same value with only Mpen you'd need to build a lot of items and even then you'd only get 2X the damage.
Again, for AS Kog attack speed is simply superior. I firmly believe that Kog's best weapon is his auto attack and BAB.
Finally, it's not just experience. Kog really needs a team that can protect him and is still really weak. He's basically Tristana 0.5. Trist does as much damage late game, has nearly the same range late game, and has an escape + a knockback.
Even with the buffs Kog still makes a good case for being the worst ranged DPS in the game (the only other contender is Twitch).
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Well, kog does always give a side role of ranged mage that has really useful scouting that tristana doesn't. It's easy to make use of and a properly played kog can go places without facechecking. But yeah when it comes to the nitty gritty, you will probably be better off playing trist. Though you could argue the side-role mage a bit more. I run MPen marks, Mp5/lvl, and flat cdr, with some ap quints because i havent gotten my hands on MS quints yet.
And with the W cd buff, you have it on more then not. Doesn't kog outrange trist with it activated?
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At 18 Trist has 700 range (50 less than Kog with W). So yeah, Kog outranges Trist, but Trist has nearly the same thing except that she can actually defend herself without having to rely on her team for absolutely everything. Moreover her range isn't as conditional as Kog's is, so combined with her escape kit she gets to use it a lot more (think: 700 range + jump is basically greater range than 750 with no jump when a melee charges you). She's also better at poking towers than Kog since she builds AD+AS instead of just AS.
Two seconds off W cooldown do nothing to solve Kog's major problem: nearly everyone walks up to him and kills him.
As for bush checking there are a lot of mages who can check bushes while being better mages than Kog. Anyone with a skill shot can check a bush (Brand, Rumble, Sivir, Cait, Ashe, Ezreal, Corki, etc) and many abilities like Karthus wall, Malzahar void, and Corki bomb give bush vision. Moreover, stuff like Nidalee traps, Teemo shrooms, Caitlyn traps, and Maokai saplings can all keep tabs on bushes better than Kog can ever hope to. There are so many bush checkers/semi-wards that, even without taking into account proper warding and clairvoyance, the fact that Kog can check bushes is pretty null and void.
I think he's an awful champion with few redeeming factors. I made this guide because I've liked Kog enough to keep tabs on him for the past 9 months and as a character he's one of my favorites, and wanted to share what I consider to be the best way to play him. But arguing that Kog is in some way "good" outside of his DPS seems to me to be wishful thinking.
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Well I mean his side role as mage is natural, he IS that already with his ult, no matter what you build. Completely additional.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
I've only had real success playing Kog hybrid getting several Doran's Blades and a Black Cleaver first items and then going for AS/magical damage such as Wit's End and BR.
The main problem with all the "magic damage on hit" items is that they, while giving you good damage vs champions, give entirely nothing vs turrets. The main strength of Kog is his insane range that allows him to basically shred towers without anyone engaging into a fight. If you don't build at least some AD or AP and focus entirely on procs, you're gonna dump half his tactical advantage.
And since the game is really about killing their base, not going 40-0, the best Kog is AD Kog imo.
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AP kog is so much funnier to play though. I love being a siege tank with my ulti.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On May 26 2011 18:42 Johnny Business wrote:
AP kog is so much funnier to play though. I love being a siege tank with my ulti.
AP Kog is surprisingly good in late game. With 40% Mpen and your W doing like 14% max HP (with BR ofc) on each hit, you shred anyone like no tomorrow. This is why you get a deathcap, not for the ultimate. However, AP Kog needs way too many items so it's not really viable since you will sacrifice too much of your midgame for your late to be relevant.
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I'm 1500 Elo currently, have been above 1600, and AP kog is my main.
IMO Ap Kog is the only way to play. You shouldn't have to be within w range to fight, or you're going to melt (especially if you're carrying) because people all think the way to beat teams with Kog is to blow him up first, and deal with his team later.
That being said, this is my build.
Summoners: Flash and Ghost, Non negotiable, the other team will hunt you, even with your ridiculous range, and your slow you'll need the escapes.
9-0-21 Spell Pen in offense, Pretty Standard utility.
Skill order EWEQER then R>E>W>Q Your E is an AP nuke that's great for farming, and harassment. This is absolutely essential in lane. Also, once you hit level 9 E+R will 1shot Caster minions.
Items: mana crystal 2 health pots. Then Cata, Boots 1, RoA, Sorc Shoes, Deathcap. Beyond that you have a few options. You will probably want a Rylais and a Void Staff as your next two items, the order depends on the other teams magic resistance. Occasionally if I'm doing really well I'll get another NLR before those two items and build it into hourglass at the end of my build. If I'm not doing as well, or if they are just absolutely charging at me I'll get a Banshees
In lane play very passive until level 6, focus on last hits. If your opponent thinks he's going to be smart and harass you, e w will do a lot of damage and keep you safe. After level 6 you can basically outharass and outfarm anyone. E and R is an amazing combo, abuse the low cd of your ult, but try not to get more than two stacks on it, and only two stacks when a hit is guaranteed, or when you can get easy creeps with it.
You want to hit levels 11 and 16 as fast as possible, the extra range is absolutely amazing. Farm as much as you can, while still helping your team whenever possible. Once you hit 16, you become incredibly annoying. You can force the other team to engage by bombarding them from well outside of their harassment range, just ensure you keep your team between the other team and you if you're closer than max range.
I have to go to work now, I'll add more if you want later.
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Im really interested in what you are laning against that you can manage with a mana crystal and 2 hp pots? I have trouble with boots and 3 pots.
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On May 27 2011 00:55 Sha[DoW] wrote:
I'm 1500 Elo currently, have been above 1600, and AP kog is my main.
IMO Ap Kog is the only way to play. You shouldn't have to be within w range to fight, or you're going to melt (especially if you're carrying) because people all think the way to beat teams with Kog is to blow him up first, and deal with his team later.
That being said, this is my build.
Summoners: Flash and Ghost, Non negotiable, the other team will hunt you, even with your ridiculous range, and your slow you'll need the escapes.
9-0-21 Spell Pen in offense, Pretty Standard utility.
Skill order EWEQER then R>E>W>Q Your E is an AP nuke that's great for farming, and harassment. This is absolutely essential in lane. Also, once you hit level 9 E+R will 1shot Caster minions.
Items: mana crystal 2 health pots. Then Cata, Boots 1, RoA, Sorc Shoes, Deathcap. Beyond that you have a few options. You will probably want a Rylais and a Void Staff as your next two items, the order depends on the other teams magic resistance. Occasionally if I'm doing really well I'll get another NLR before those two items and build it into hourglass at the end of my build. If I'm not doing as well, or if they are just absolutely charging at me I'll get a Banshees
In lane play very passive until level 6, focus on last hits. If your opponent thinks he's going to be smart and harass you, e w will do a lot of damage and keep you safe. After level 6 you can basically outharass and outfarm anyone. E and R is an amazing combo, abuse the low cd of your ult, but try not to get more than two stacks on it, and only two stacks when a hit is guaranteed, or when you can get easy creeps with it.
You want to hit levels 11 and 16 as fast as possible, the extra range is absolutely amazing. Farm as much as you can, while still helping your team whenever possible. Once you hit 16, you become incredibly annoying. You can force the other team to engage by bombarding them from well outside of their harassment range, just ensure you keep your team between the other team and you if you're closer than max range.
I have to go to work now, I'll add more if you want later.
I never touched kog in my entire life but since I main Corki/Ashe/Trist I assume one thing might benefit kog even more (cuz more dps vs bruisers) than those do:
Use Flash/Exhaust over Flash/Ghost. Exhaust any tanky dps that dives you, buttrape them. I'd not use Ghost on a ranged carry with no escape, ever. Exhaust is so much stronger 1n1 vs other AD carries (common in lane) and to defend against divers.
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There's actually a decent case for Ghost over exhaust on Kog since a Kog with Rylais can chase and gun down someone WAYYYYYYY the fuck out of exhaust range. Ghost is less flexible on most characters than Exhaust, but on AP Kog I think it makes a fair amount of sense.
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I don't play much of Kogmaw but I think some dblades > malady > wits end > survivability > mbr is the way to go.
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United States37500 Posts
On May 27 2011 01:35 Chrispy wrote:
I don't play much of Kogmaw but I think some dblades > malady > wits end > survivability > mbr is the way to go.
Sounds just like Teemo.
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On May 27 2011 01:10 bumatlarge wrote:
Im really interested in what you are laning against that you can manage with a mana crystal and 2 hp pots? I have trouble with boots and 3 pots.
Honestly, I almost never lose a lane with kog. Jarman before the nerfs was a little sketchy, but apart from that I'm usually fine. Kog's e is absolutely amazing in laning. All you have to do is autoattack for the majority of your last hits in the first few levels, then E and R become amazing farming tools. If I'm in a passive lane I can usually autoattack my way through right to 6 and still have almost all of my mana for trying to harass my opponent out of lane/kill them once I hit 6.
I honestly think E is the skill that makes Kog. It allows you to farm vs very aggressive laners in two ways: It lets you keep them off you (xin can't actually proc a three taloned strike if you e him when he jumps you) It also allows you to farm from a very long distance if you make a mistake and find yourself forced partially off the creeps (which shouldn't really ever happen from my experience.
Post level 6, you're a monster. Your E does like 300 damage, your ult does close to 200. That harassment combination is devestating. You can usually deny someone a large amount of lasthits just by constantly harassing them with E+R.
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EPT
