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On July 04 2014 09:23 ZataN wrote:
Dont see how essence reaver first would be better than BOTRK or Triforce first. So much stronger single item timings, I know you get essence reaver earlier but you don't even really need the mana on Kog. Just dont spam ult and youre fine.
Building 25% cdr on an ADC from first two items seems weird. The ADC you are laning against will have far stronger combat stats.
I dunno thought I guess it worked on EZ for a while...
I wasn't gonna rush these items. I always rush triforce. The Cdr boots are something more mid-late oriented since during siege/poke situations more uptime on W would make things a bit easier. I don't know how to fit in essence reaver timing wise which is why Iam asking him
I wanna give it a try before dismissing it
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I already said I stopped using it, but people that think it doesn't work and there is only one build path are plain ridiculous. That's part of the reason, NA/EU are so far behind korea. Because everyone just follows whatever the korean meta is instead of finding out what is really powerful on their own.
You'd be amazed at how oppressive of a lane it becomes if you get slightly ahead as kogmaw and you get essence reaver. you can basically Q, W, R, AA, R, E, AA, R, AA, etc and trade for like 70% of their health and still have 30-40% your mana
I would get it after double dorans if you want to try it out.
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On July 08 2014 00:36 GreggSauce wrote:
I already said I stopped using it, but people that think it doesn't work and there is only one build path are plain ridiculous. That's part of the reason, NA/EU are so far behind korea. Because everyone just follows whatever the korean meta is instead of finding out what is really powerful on their own.
You'd be amazed at how oppressive of a lane it becomes if you get slightly ahead as kogmaw and you get essence reaver. you can basically Q, W, R, AA, R, E, AA, R, AA, etc and trade for like 70% of their health and still have 30-40% your mana
I would get it after double dorans if you want to try it out.
People saying this build path is ridiculous has nothing to do with NA/EU being behind KR. Lol. I think kog can be strong in trades if you can manage to hit a Q before anything else.
I am keen to give this a go, as much as I feel like it will be a waste of time compared to TF first Kog.
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I'm not saying that the normal build is the only acceptable build but I really don't see essence reaver being useful. There are other unorthodox builds that could work. For example, why not just build manamune then if you play a spam happy style? It's more cost efficient and has an on-hit effect which works well with Kog'Maw's naturally high aspd.
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On July 08 2014 12:18 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 00:36 GreggSauce wrote:
I already said I stopped using it, but people that think it doesn't work and there is only one build path are plain ridiculous. That's part of the reason, NA/EU are so far behind korea. Because everyone just follows whatever the korean meta is instead of finding out what is really powerful on their own.
You'd be amazed at how oppressive of a lane it becomes if you get slightly ahead as kogmaw and you get essence reaver. you can basically Q, W, R, AA, R, E, AA, R, AA, etc and trade for like 70% of their health and still have 30-40% your mana
I would get it after double dorans if you want to try it out. People saying this build path is ridiculous has nothing to do with NA/EU being behind KR. Lol. I think kog can be strong in trades if you can manage to hit a Q before anything else. I am keen to give this a go, as much as I feel like it will be a waste of time compared to TF first Kog.
You misread what I wrote. People blindly follow pro's who blindly follow korea who build the way they think is best. There isn't that much theorycrafting behind almost any of it. Essence does need a buff, but if you get ahead, you can literally make it so your opponent can't get a single cs away from the turret, and even then they are hurting. I used it a bunch when it came out on normals and a few higher level team games, but only used it probably 3 out of 20 kog maw games i've had since then, all were wins, and all I started snowballing and just never stopped.
On July 08 2014 17:16 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I'm not saying that the normal build is the only acceptable build but I really don't see essence reaver being useful. There are other unorthodox builds that could work. For example, why not just build manamune then if you play a spam happy style? It's more cost efficient and has an on-hit effect which works well with Kog'Maw's naturally high aspd.
manamune doesn't add combat stats for awhile but it could work, he will go manaless in an instant if you misuse the active of it though which is why i'd avoid it, kogs ult can finish a lot of people off that think they're safe where manamune you'll have to worry about positioning, W up/down time, and if it's toggled on when you want it to be. It wouldn't be the same as jayce, leave it on for the combo then hammer your mana back up.
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On July 09 2014 03:39 GreggSauce wrote:
manamune doesn't add combat stats for awhile but it could work, he will go manaless in an instant if you misuse the active of it though which is why i'd avoid it
Kog will be out of mana, but the other team will be dead. Fair trade imo.
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On July 09 2014 09:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:39 GreggSauce wrote:
manamune doesn't add combat stats for awhile but it could work, he will go manaless in an instant if you misuse the active of it though which is why i'd avoid it Kog will be out of mana, but the other team will be dead. Fair trade imo.
not necessarily, give it a shot, you will be manaless after about 4-5 R's or auto's depending. to really get the most out of muramana you need to have another large mana item. I can't find the math for it, but its somewhere on reddit. this is why singed and ryze go for high mana items.
all muramana does for kog right now is let him hit really hard for like 3-5 aa's and if that's what you want i think sword of divine would be a lot more awesome. no amount of mana will let him spam his skills/ultimate
EDIT
this does mean blue build kogmaw could actually be viable, i've done it with him and lucian in high plat/low diamond against an AD team
zhonyas, iceborne, frozen heart, muramana.
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Essence Reaver is a good item now. I still don't think it's that good on Kog but people can build it now and not look like a lunatic to me.
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User was warned for this post
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only build right now is triforce into bortk really i mean you could try infinty then phantom/shiv maybe
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On July 24 2014 11:39 eagle wrote:
only build right now is triforce into bortk really i mean you could try infinty then phantom/shiv maybe
should still work just like it does with any adc
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On July 24 2014 11:39 eagle wrote:
only build right now is triforce into bortk really i mean you could try infinty then phantom/shiv maybe
that is nowhere near true, i'd say the split is relatively even between botrk, IE, or tri force first, but if a kog can go back for a BF that player is much farther ahead from the triforce builder.
http://www.probuilds.net/champions/KogMaw
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Any one understand why some pro kogs are doing tf-botrk-pd? Seems like a terrible build because you can't even synergize an ie with the pd until 5 items, and you get no defensive item.
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honestly it's quite bad because you already have a lot of attack speed, you don't really need more. The only good thing is that it gives you better mobility.
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Theoretical question:
Why is Kog Maw, almost always only played in super-peel comps in competitive play? Are pros that much better at diving than regular soloQ players?
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His range increase lasts 8 seconds out of 17.
He's a god during the 4 seconds he's hitting an armour/MR-shredded target at 700+ range doing additional %HP damage, but once both wear out he's only got a permanent 30% AS increase and decent defensive stats for a marskman to show... along with 500 range. When you fight with AD Kog you really want to decide the fight during these 8s otherwise the enemy marksman is going to do a lot more work (unless he's Graves, bleh).
Obviously you've got the tools to do so, but better provide enough peeling to make sure you spend more time attacking than running during this time.
Jinx for example doesn't have this issue because with how her switcheroo works she mostly care about triggering her passive, she's not cooldown/duration-dependant, even though she requires peeling too since immobile and short-range minigun.
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Kog'maw is more of a pick you go if you have a strong team you know will and can protect you later on. Not a playmaking champ like Lucian .. he is more of a champ to hide in the backline until its safe to go in instead of just firing off ults.
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Why is Kog Maw, almost always only played in super-peel comps in competitive play? Are pros that much better at diving than regular soloQ players?
I would say its more the opposite pro players/communication are better at protecting not diving, so you can tell your toplaner to stay with you and he will do it, while in solo q you often have the situation that you dont know where the fuck your support went again.
And as already said kogmaw is 50% of the time a god and 50% of the time the weakest ad in the game and you really cannot fight when your w is down (thats one reason I actually run some cdr runes on kogmaw)
But if you look at all the immobile ads: Jinx, Kogmaw, Ashe, Draven, (Sivir) they either need some protection or with sivir /ashe you have to engage the enemy team and not let them engage on you
Edit: with that being said I recently started playing a couple of kog'maw games(spamming the shit out of him) - I keep having a ~75% winrate over 85 games and rose from ~d2 to master 170 points atm, my point is that he is pretty damn strong in solo q
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What masteries should I take on Kog'Maw if I'm going for the Guinsoo's/Hurricane build? Runes? Also what is the best ordering of items? Are there any good guides for playing Kog'Maw in Season 6?
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Not a lot of info out there on Kog, he got nerfed about as hard as a champion has ever been nerfed in the preseason patch. Probably your best bet is to check out some of these builds
http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/KogMaw
That said until someone throws away some ELO on finding a build that can make his new kit work, it's hard to say.
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EPT
