Why are you even trying to build an AS item on AP Kog? AP Kog revolves around his ult and E. Sure he does lots of damage with W lategame but you auto attack only when it's completely safe to, which is not often.

cLutZ

United States19573 Posts

December 06 2012 04:11 GMT

#263

On December 06 2012 12:53 koreasilver wrote:
Why are you even trying to build an AS item on AP Kog? AP Kog revolves around his ult and E. Sure he does lots of damage with W lategame but you auto attack only when it's completely safe to, which is not often.

Because this is Season 3 Normal blind pick!

But really that's all. Best build Seems to be the old standards.

Sandster

United States4054 Posts

December 06 2012 04:45 GMT

#264

In CLG vs Dig, Doublelift went Wriggles -> Wit's End -> IE. Doublelift has never been the strongest in game theory, but any idea the merit behind that?

nanoscorp

United States1237 Posts

December 06 2012 04:57 GMT

#265

Not sure if that was a planned build or more of a reaction to the specific game. Ezreal went straight for brutalizer. Casters suggested Wriggles was an attempt to maintain some physical damage reduction with the extra armor. The extra ward every few minutes might have helped Sona afford that fast Shurelya's (which is really good with KM too) Wit's End works well with kog's kit and helps him survive early on. IE to convert his farming advantage into a win?

Wriggles->Wit's End->IE
Farm up safely->Stay alive in teamfights->Win!

phyvo

United States5635 Posts

December 06 2012 05:03 GMT

#266

There has been some merit in wriggles first in the past but mixing on hit items with an AD build is simply suboptimal for champion DPS. Aside from the early wriggle's DL's build didn't have much of an effect on the game. With mercurial and hexdrinker in the game there's no reason ever to put a wit's end in your AD build for mres. On-hit Kog is weaker than AD Kog but mixing the two gets you something worse, even on Kog Maw.

The only explanation I can think of is the combination of wit's/wriggles for faster barons/dragons. I don't know why you would sacrifice so much damage synergy with IE to do that though, he certainly wasn't getting wit's simply for mres, and Dig wasn't in much of position to challenge CLG by the time they baroned.

chocolatebunny

301 Posts

December 06 2012 05:06 GMT

#267

i think the wits end was in part for the mr and attackspeed. we see a lot of kogmaws rushing phantom dancers. well wits end is much cheaper and gives defensive stats at the cost of crit and some movespeed.

so maybe he was seeing if wits could act as a cheaper attack speed item that also gives defensive stats.

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

December 06 2012 07:13 GMT

#268

Runaan's hurricane: absolutely garbage.

OnceKing

United States939 Posts

December 06 2012 07:23 GMT

#269

Well if I remember correctly someone a while ago mathed out the dpses and found that malady wits is better than BF PD or something (don't quote me on these exact items, I can't recall exactly but it was something similar). The conclusion was that one should go malady wits then segue into IE and a traditional AD build, and that's what his build reminded me of.

EDIT: lolol chauster just called double's kog build shitty in his ama

Thereisnosaurus

Australia1822 Posts

December 06 2012 08:52 GMT

#270

Runaan's hurricane: absolutely garbage.

I am undecided. On the one hand the alt targets have to be very close to the main one, kind of like the old tiamat, so it's not a very effective tool against competent or well spread teams. On the other hand the bolts will go for targets even out of your AA range so long as they're close to the main one.I was worried you'd have to make sure all three were in auto attack range or you wouldn't get the extra shots, but you can still snipe from the back at clusters of enemies.

I think it's a good item but it's situational and actually requires skill to use. you have use teamwork to set up situations where you can get the cluster fire and pick your targets well (I'm thinking it would work really well with a diana hoovering a frontline together for example.

Sc2eleazar

United States70 Posts

January 23 2013 16:44 GMT

#271

I've been loving this HP stacking meta. AP Kog says Hi. Seriously though, E clears waves with ease, R does an excellent job of poking, and by end game W does ~12% per shot. With his innate as buff I normally just go for AP/MPen. What do you guys think? Have you seen/played much of AP Kog of late?

koreasilver

9109 Posts

January 23 2013 19:31 GMT

#272

I've been trying here and there but I just don't find him to be playable because of his ult mana costs. Unless they reduce the max stacks or reduce the mana cost per stack, I don't think he can work that well. He also does not fare well against the popular mid picks these days.

And on the point of hp stacking, AD Kog already does really well against it anyway, because the W base of 6% magic damage plus the BOTRK 4% physical damage already is plenty. AP Kog doesn't really do it much better if you factor in AD Kog's AD, AS, and crit damage. The only reason to play AP Kog over AD Kog is still really just over the power of the ult, but the ult can't be used the same way as before it got nerfed hard.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

January 24 2013 01:56 GMT

#273

Personally I've had a lot of success as AP Kog so long as the enemy mid is not an AD caster. That being said, I'm low elo so I don't know how much that's worth. You can't spam the ult all day long, but if you manage your mana and are good at hitting it, then it's not really a problem. :>

Sc2eleazar

United States70 Posts

January 25 2013 19:58 GMT

#274

I typically use it for poking, rarely going over 2 stacks. Spamming it burns mana quick but if you are patient and get some lucky E hits at max range you will force your opponent out of lane. Once you get comfortable with it, it is godlike at picking off runners after a team fight.

cLutZ

United States19573 Posts

February 11 2013 23:01 GMT

#275

What are the AP kog builds?

Tear>Cata>ROA? or Tear >Rylias? Etc?

Amarok

Australia2003 Posts

February 12 2013 03:54 GMT

#276

I'm no expert (only played AP kog a few times) but I found Chalice absolutely essential for obvious reasons and IMO an AS item (I'm partial to Malady but Wits works too) is essential. Liandry's is surprisingly good as well, It helps in forcing the enemy out of the fight at which point the range of your ult allows you to pick them off. Not quite sure whether to turn tear into Seraphs or Muramana as he gets value out of both, but I've always gone Seraphs for the shield. Lich Bane also synergises well with his kit (W and R specifically), but I didn't get to the point where I could work it in to my build.

Biggest problem imo is that he's still Kog. He's still stupidly easy to jump on, has no escapes and needs protection.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

February 12 2013 04:32 GMT

#277

I generally go Tear, Deathcap, Rylai's, Archangel's, Void Staff, Lichbane. Lichbane before Void Staff if they're not getting any MR. Also I tend to get the Giant's Belt for Rylai's before working on Deathcap.

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

February 12 2013 07:39 GMT

#278

On February 12 2013 08:01 cLutZ wrote:
What are the AP kog builds?

Tear>Cata>ROA? or Tear >Rylias? Etc?

I usually go Tear -> Catalyst -> HG or Catalyst -> Tear -> HG. I think his R's ratio is too low but base damage is high, so might as well focus on mpen.

Lmui

Canada6213 Posts

February 12 2013 09:21 GMT

#279

I personally go tear => sorcs => giants belt => rylais => lichbane => voidstaff. AP ratios on ulti are garbage but the extra lichbane proc wrecks bruisers when coupled with your W.

You need the tear for mana (RoA fulfills the same role but is much more expensive) but delaying your Rylais til after RoA or any other big item really, leaves you with a pretty big gap in effectiveness when you start spiking in power (level 11 when you get enough range on ulti to poke from safety.

Chalice I think is pretty terrible on AP kogmaw. You need a mana pool in order to not run oom in a teamfight, mana regen is nowhere near enough. Most teamfights, I'll go up to 5 stacks before letting it cooldown and a chalice gives nowhere near enough to sustain that. Having a large mana pool (Just a well stacked tear) is enough to continuously go up to three stacks while sieging a tower for pretty much three minutes. If you can't make something happen in that time frame, then you're doing something wrong.

Between rylais (slow) and lichbane (MS), you should generally be able to keep everyone in the game between 1500-2000 range throughout most fights, if someone (malphite/xin for example) charge in, you can reasonably safely walk up to Wautos+E them while still casting R's on the back line. The main point though is to use E defensively (not for damage but to keep people away from you)