EPT[Champion] Kog'Maw - Page 12
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
Also......... what the fuck? rofl. Yeah they only need like 10K gold worth of items not too many for sure. yes 10k isnt a lot? thats IE/PD + boots/dorans so not even half the build complete and 2-3 items is at least for me midgame so if you consider that as lategame then yes Kogmaw has a good lategame but the super lategame (I like to take it easier and see it as early - mid - lategame) he falls off a little bit compared to tristana (still really strong compared to some other ads) Kog's W giving him bonus 8% max hp damage is pretty nice in the mid-game when people don't have that much mr. Vayne's true damage from silver bolts helps in a similar manner, but most of the times you won't be maxing silver bolts first. By the time it's maxed you should've already completed a BF sword item and a good chunk of your damage is probably from your items. I mainly wanted to say that vaynes ultimate increases her dmg quite a bit (early game that will be around 30% bonus damage just with the ultimate) | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1961 Posts
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On July 24 2012 22:07 Broetchenholer wrote: Had a kog yesterday insisting, that madreds is a good choice on him and mandatory as the enemy team was pretty tanky. Now, i didn't want to be rude to him, so i kept my keyboard shut, still, is there any circumstance to pick one up, maybe instead of an LW or a BT/2ndPD? I once had a Kog say "Bloodrazor is the best on Kog, check mobafire". There is no reason to pick it up on an ad carry ever. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 24 2012 22:07 Broetchenholer wrote: Had a kog yesterday insisting, that madreds is a good choice on him and mandatory as the enemy team was pretty tanky. Now, i didn't want to be rude to him, so i kept my keyboard shut, still, is there any circumstance to pick one up, maybe instead of an LW or a BT/2ndPD? If you math it out, the only time its ever worth it is if the enemy team all have like 3k+ HP AND 200+ armor and less than 80 MR. Otherwise, last whisper will synergize with your other items against a tanky team far better, increasing your DPS by a larger amount AND being less expensive. Your standard set of AD carry items are synergizing off each other (and kog's passive AS steroid, which people seem to forget he has sometimes) between AD, Crit, AS, and Armor Pen. Madred's only takes advantage of AS, but not AD, Crit or ArPen. The more items you have, the more you shouldn't be building a bloodrazor. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1961 Posts
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
Edit: yet to see a calculation which would change my mindset | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On July 25 2012 03:00 Ente wrote: I will keep telling everyone that you rather should go double PD instead of PD/LW (if you want a bt and a defensive item if you dont you can obviously get all 3 items) unless you have a nunu or a WW Edit: yet to see a calculation which would change my mindset Hmm. Calculations say that PDPD>PDLW in any situation where you can sit and shoot and the AS benefits kog's W linearly. The only case where PDLW would outdamage PDPD is where you don't get to stand still and shoot people aka, you can't utilize the extra attack speed. Against tanks with FH+Randuins this is likely to be the case. With AS slows from randuins+FH, you have ~1.3/1 AS, not particularly high at all. You're likely going to be kiting around more than shooting and shot for shot, a LW will do more than a second PD. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On July 24 2012 22:47 h3r1n6 wrote: I once had a Kog say "Bloodrazor is the best on Kog, check mobafire". There is no reason to pick it up on an ad carry ever. Actually back in the day that used to be standard on Kog iirc. hit like a truck with his W on | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On July 25 2012 03:00 Ente wrote: I will keep telling everyone that you rather should go double PD instead of PD/LW (if you want a bt and a defensive item if you dont you can obviously get all 3 items) unless you have a nunu or a WW Edit: yet to see a calculation which would change my mindset I just ran the numbers for an Ashe (no steroids to account for, already had a spreadsheet comparing different items) and LW vs 2nd PD breaks even at around 170 armor. PD gives additional movement speed, but LW is 550 gold cheaper. That's a pretty good reason to buy the 2nd PD actually. On July 25 2012 06:03 arb wrote: Actually back in the day that used to be standard on Kog iirc. hit like a truck with his W on I used to run that on him, until I tried an IE+PD build once. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On July 25 2012 06:08 h3r1n6 wrote: I just ran the numbers for an Ashe (no steroids to account for, already had a spreadsheet comparing different items) and LW vs 2nd PD breaks even at around 170 armor. PD gives additional movement speed, but LW is 550 gold cheaper. That's a pretty good reason to buy the 2nd PD actually. Run it with an IE. PD outdps's LW for a good bit longer than 170 armor. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
Hmm. Calculations say that PDPD>PDLW in any situation where you can sit and shoot and the AS benefits kog's W linearly. The only case where PDLW would outdamage PDPD is where you don't get to stand still and shoot people aka, you can't utilize the extra attack speed. Against tanks with FH+Randuins this is likely to be the case. With AS slows from randuins+FH, you have ~1.3/1 AS, not particularly high at all. You're likely going to be kiting around more than shooting and shot for shot, a LW will do more than a second PD. Why? that doesnt make much sense if you have to run around to gain dps extra movementspeed will increase your dps further + the faster attack animation with more AS lets you attack faster. In addition to that the less AS you have the better AS gets so PD should actually get better if they get AS slows | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On July 25 2012 06:14 Lmui wrote: Run it with an IE. PD outdps's LW for a good bit longer than 170 armor. I did. IE+2 dorans+zerkers+runes and masteries. On July 25 2012 06:59 Ente wrote: Why? that doesnt make much sense if you have to run around to gain dps extra movementspeed will increase your dps further + the faster attack animation with more AS lets you attack faster. In addition to that the less AS you have the better AS gets so PD should actually get better if they get AS slows Attack speed reductions just reduce the final attack speed. This means getting more attack speed on items is neither better nor worse in regards to attack speed debuffs. The only case where this is not true are silly cases attack speed would be reduced to 0.2 in any case, in which case more AD is better. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
I did. IE+2 dorans+zerkers+runes and masteries. This is correct my spreadsheet says the same  If we would have a BT in addition to that the cutoff would be around 270 Armor btw (all done with AD quint/marks) Edit: and this is for Ashe for Kogmaw the cutoff is way above that (considering you would have a activated W without its obviosly comparable to Ashe, LW would be a tiny bit stronger because of the 30% passive AS) | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
Oh well, time to stack PDs. I dont recommend that either "blindly" going double PD (if we exclude kogmaw where I think you rarely should go LW) but for other ADs lastwhisper is often a good idea because its cheaper (you will often find yourself with ~2.3k-2.7k gold when you have to back) in that situation you often should get LW. I just want more people think about not going LW and stop the brain afk Lastwhisper which is the standart atm. On a sidenote the highest 4 item dmg you can get (you will really rarely be able to go 5 dmg item AD) is double PD IE LW in pretty much any circumstance (when we ignore BC which I do nowadays you need to attack quite often but fully stacked it outdmgs a lastwhisper until over 220 armor ) | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
 . For other ADs, since the calculations are just for auto attacks, you gotta factor in spells like Ashe Volley or Graves Buckshot, which don't benefit at all from PD, but do greatly from LW with AD and armor pen. This doesn't apply for Kog, since all his spells are magic damage and only the ult has a bit of AD scaling, but most of that is base damage anyway. | ||
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CaffeineFree-_-
United States712 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On August 09 2012 15:47 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: Is IE + zeal (5025) or wriggles + PD (4445) best to get first with kog? I've always done the latter but I'm starting to get curious which is better... You want a wriggles ONLY in the case that you are getting shit on or expecting to get shit on. Cases like double bruiser bottom are the only times that wriggles makes sense to get. Every other case, you want IE+zeal. I'm unsure of whether zeal+BF or straight IE is better on kog though. | ||
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