EPT[Champion] Master Yi - Page 13
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
His attack speed is significantly lower. I think they hit his base or scaling attack speed and his ult. Sort of annoying. Double Strike: This is a pretty stupid change since it's every 4th attack now, and AD Yi is going to have enough attack speed to land this incessantly, especially while ulting. Works against towers too, so you don't have to hit the tower 7 times if you start at 0 stacks. You don't retain stacks if you stop autoing, so that makes it somewhat better, but you apply on-hit affects. Apparently Wuju's active doesn't count as on-hit. Alpha Strike: Damage isn't terribly different (against champions), other than you have incentives to build AD+crit, and since it does physical damage instead of magic, the damage is more relevant late game as AD Yi because a last whisper will help tons. The cooldown decreases by 1 per auto is a big, big deal- they increased the cooldown of alpha strike a bit to compensate, but if you get any significant amount of attack speed, its cooldown is lower if you're autoing and not getting cced. God help us all if you get blue buff. Also makes Yi extremely slippery because even if you don't get resets, you can get your alpha back pretty quickly. Then you get resets, and it starts getting stupid. Meditate: Pretty much a straight up nerf because its damage reduction and not an obscene amount of flat armor/magic resist. Not much to say here. Wuju Style: The passive %AD increase is a nerf until you hit 200 AD and level 5 Wuju (I think the old Wuju was a 30 flat AD at level 5- pretty sure anyways), after that its a buff. The true damage portion of this skill is absolutely retarded. If you get say, 2 attack speed and have 200 AD (not super uncommon with like two attack speed items+ult, and like maybe one big damage item), and activate Wuju at level 5, if you can sit and auto for a full 5 seconds, you get 10 autos plus 2 double strikes. Each auto gives 70 true damage. So you're looking at something like 700 true damage, plus whatever else you get from your normal AD (2200 before armor). Now imagine getting resets on this skill when you get a kill or an assist. Who thought this was a good idea? Highlander: Not much to say, other than they removed most of the work in managing your resets well. There's no incentive to get kills over assists now, and you don't have to reactivate highlander after getting either because its duration extends. Personally I find this sort of stupid, that was one of the most challenging aspects of Yi. In short, Wuju's active is frakking ridiculous and alpha strike is sort of dumb too. Although after looking at Yi's attack speed, I think they hit his passive attack speed pretty hard, or I'm completely misremembering stuff. I can imagine a tanky attack speed Yi who just abuses the crap out of the true damage on Wuju being completely workable. Live long enough to get resets and have a high attack speed, you're going to be railing out a crapton of true damage. | ||
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Exigaet
Canada355 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:00 zer0das wrote: My initial impressions of Yi: His attack speed is significantly lower. I think they hit his base or scaling attack speed and his ult. Sort of annoying. Double Strike: This is a pretty stupid change since it's every 4th attack now, and AD Yi is going to have enough attack speed to land this incessantly, especially while ulting. Works against towers too, so you don't have to hit the tower 7 times if you start at 0 stacks. You don't retain stacks if you stop autoing, so that makes it somewhat better, but you apply on-hit affects. Apparently Wuju's active doesn't count as on-hit. Alpha Strike: Damage isn't terribly different (against champions), other than you have incentives to build AD+crit, and since it does physical damage instead of magic, the damage is more relevant late game as AD Yi because a last whisper will help tons. The cooldown decreases by 1 per auto is a big, big deal- they increased the cooldown of alpha strike a bit to compensate, but if you get any significant amount of attack speed, its cooldown is lower if you're autoing and not getting cced. God help us all if you get blue buff. Also makes Yi extremely slippery because even if you don't get resets, you can get your alpha back pretty quickly. Then you get resets, and it starts getting stupid. Meditate: Pretty much a straight up nerf because its damage reduction and not an obscene amount of flat armor/magic resist. Not much to say here. Wuju Style: The passive %AD increase is a nerf until you hit 200 AD and level 5 Wuju (I think the old Wuju was a 30 flat AD at level 5- pretty sure anyways), after that its a buff. The true damage portion of this skill is absolutely retarded. If you get say, 2 attack speed and have 200 AD (not super uncommon with like two attack speed items+ult, and like maybe one big damage item), and activate Wuju at level 5, if you can sit and auto for a full 5 seconds, you get 10 autos plus 2 double strikes. Each auto gives 70 true damage. So you're looking at something like 700 true damage, plus whatever else you get from your normal AD (2200 before armor). Now imagine getting resets on this skill when you get a kill or an assist. Who thought this was a good idea? Highlander: Not much to say, other than they removed most of the work in managing your resets well. There's no incentive to get kills over assists now, and you don't have to reactivate highlander after getting either because its duration extends. Personally I find this sort of stupid, that was one of the most challenging aspects of Yi. In short, Wuju's active is frakking ridiculous and alpha strike is sort of dumb too. Although after looking at Yi's attack speed, I think they hit his passive attack speed pretty hard, or I'm completely misremembering stuff. I can imagine a tanky attack speed Yi who just abuses the crap out of the true damage on Wuju being completely workable. Live long enough to get resets and have a high attack speed, you're going to be railing out a crapton of true damage. Yeah I just played a custom game with bots to try him out. My build was BotRK, Youmuu's, Statikk Shiv, Berserker's Greaves, IE and BT. At full build with potions I was around 380 damage, 60% crit chance, 1.8 or so attack speed, was able to kill baron in under 15 seconds. With 40% CDR, was able to alpha strike every 3 seconds or less with ult up. Absolutely ridiculous damage. With ~380 AD, it was like 120 or 130 true damage every hit iirc. | ||
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JustAGame
Germany161 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:32 Exigaet wrote: Yeah I just played a custom game with bots to try him out. My build was BotRK, Youmuu's, Statikk Shiv, Berserker's Greaves, IE and BT. At full build with potions I was around 380 damage, 60% crit chance, 1.8 or so attack speed, was able to kill baron in under 15 seconds. With 40% CDR, was able to alpha strike every 3 seconds or less with ult up. Absolutely ridiculous damage. With ~380 AD, it was like 120 or 130 true damage every hit iirc. And if you play that build against real players they just stun you and nuke you down in a split second. | ||
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little fancy
Germany2504 Posts
Apart from his damn annoying true damage + Q spam (AAs reducing its cool down is just... welp), I have the feeling you don't really need to think what you're gonna do at what point in the game. I have played Yi before the rework a total of 2 (bot) games and after I saw him doing pretty well in ranked play, I decided to give the new jungle Yi a try in normals and I must say: he's is pretty easy to play (just like Graves when learning adc for example). R lasting longer gives lots of time to wait for the perfect alpha strike, which usually is right after the AoE clusterfuck has been used in the teamfight. Then Q-> and AA people to death, esepecially ap casters without good mobility get fucked so hard it's not even funny. It's getting really hilarious when they learned what you've been doing in fights and save some shit to throw at you which you then dodge with Q. In addition, once a target is isolated, it's not going to get anywhere. You run faster as everybody else with ult and Q has a lower cooldown compared to the prevalent mobility abilities. Let's see what LCS makes out of him, but I for myself am pretty sure Riot has to tweak him, if only because of the fact that he's probably roflstomping at low elo. | ||
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sicorad
19 Posts
His Q does very little damage and you have a hard time hitting a decent opponent with it anyway. It also drains your Mana EXTREMLY fast since you dont play Dorans Ring anymore. In the games I played so far people would just gladly take the trade and come out ahead every time. You can try to Q the enemy laner directly to get damage done, but that is obviously pretty much all in at any point. Q is also not able to clear waves as efficiently as before. So in lane you end up trying desperatly not to fall behind in cs, burning through your mana and then slowly getting poked to death once your pots run out, while the enemy laner pretty much stays topped off all the time. In Team fights you just have to hope people forget about you, but they dont and they will focus you and they will kill you. Meditate is so bad now that unless you build pretty tanky in the first place an adc can kill you through it without even using ignite. The only good thing is that you are actually able to duel people now, that leaves pretty much splitpushing as your only viable role in the game. New Yi also feels very clunky and the new Highlander is boring and not rewarding. Ap Yi was a niche champion that thrived on having very little uptime in team fights due to fast Q resets and being untargetabble, while covering with Meditate for the time inbetween (and even with old Yi using Meditate IN the actual fight was not recommended since it would just get interupted and then you die and look stupid). So now they increased the uptime in fights due to the dependency on getting AA off and at the same time made meditate magnitudes worse and that pretty much makes him unplayable at the moment. My advice: forget about Yi go play Zed/Kha/Talon/Tryn and be actually useful. | ||
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
You do still take towers in about 4 seconds flat though, so there is that. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:00 zer0das wrote: My initial impressions of Yi: His attack speed is significantly lower. I think they hit his base or scaling attack speed and his ult. Sort of annoying. Double Strike: This is a pretty stupid change since it's every 4th attack now, and AD Yi is going to have enough attack speed to land this incessantly, especially while ulting. Works against towers too, so you don't have to hit the tower 7 times if you start at 0 stacks. You don't retain stacks if you stop autoing, so that makes it somewhat better, but you apply on-hit affects. Apparently Wuju's active doesn't count as on-hit. Alpha Strike: Damage isn't terribly different (against champions), other than you have incentives to build AD+crit, and since it does physical damage instead of magic, the damage is more relevant late game as AD Yi because a last whisper will help tons. The cooldown decreases by 1 per auto is a big, big deal- they increased the cooldown of alpha strike a bit to compensate, but if you get any significant amount of attack speed, its cooldown is lower if you're autoing and not getting cced. God help us all if you get blue buff. Also makes Yi extremely slippery because even if you don't get resets, you can get your alpha back pretty quickly. Then you get resets, and it starts getting stupid. Meditate: Pretty much a straight up nerf because its damage reduction and not an obscene amount of flat armor/magic resist. Not much to say here. Wuju Style: The passive %AD increase is a nerf until you hit 200 AD and level 5 Wuju (I think the old Wuju was a 30 flat AD at level 5- pretty sure anyways), after that its a buff. The true damage portion of this skill is absolutely retarded. If you get say, 2 attack speed and have 200 AD (not super uncommon with like two attack speed items+ult, and like maybe one big damage item), and activate Wuju at level 5, if you can sit and auto for a full 5 seconds, you get 10 autos plus 2 double strikes. Each auto gives 70 true damage. So you're looking at something like 700 true damage, plus whatever else you get from your normal AD (2200 before armor). Now imagine getting resets on this skill when you get a kill or an assist. Who thought this was a good idea? Highlander: Not much to say, other than they removed most of the work in managing your resets well. There's no incentive to get kills over assists now, and you don't have to reactivate highlander after getting either because its duration extends. Personally I find this sort of stupid, that was one of the most challenging aspects of Yi. In short, Wuju's active is frakking ridiculous and alpha strike is sort of dumb too. Although after looking at Yi's attack speed, I think they hit his passive attack speed pretty hard, or I'm completely misremembering stuff. I can imagine a tanky attack speed Yi who just abuses the crap out of the true damage on Wuju being completely workable. Live long enough to get resets and have a high attack speed, you're going to be railing out a crapton of true damage. Some of what you mentioned got changed. The true damage was reduced to 30 from 70. They also changed it so assists mean less than kills for cd reduction. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:57 sicorad wrote: I feel Yi is utterly useless now. In lane people abuse the living crap out of Yi and you simply can not answer back. His Q does very little damage and you have a hard time hitting a decent opponent with it anyway. It also drains your Mana EXTREMLY fast since you dont play Dorans Ring anymore. I don't know, I started with Doran's Ring in the two games I've played with him after remake. Sort of the same reasoning as Kennen with Doran's Blade -- it helps early. Being "delayed" 400g doesn't not feel that bad when it's so much easier to farm, harass and shrug off it off too with Meditate. Sword of the Divine is hilarious on him now. So much burst when you Q in. I also absolutely loooooove Zephyr's on him now, AS+CDR is so crazy with his Q. Granted in both games we had an energy mid (I played top) and the jungler fed blue to me might have helped too with the laning. Yi seems really strong now as a situational pick. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
BT/Zephyr/Zerkers actually felt quite strong. The amount of damage you can put out in the course of a couple seconds is pretty obscene. I will agree with an earlier post (can't remember if it was here or GD) that there's a really awkward time where you have like Boots and Vamp and can't really fight or duel anyone until you hit BFS. The one game where I bought BotRK (on accident >.> ) Felt alright as well, you just relied a lot more on your autos to do anything. Which isn't a bad thing, I just notices a significant decrease in burst from Q and E passive/active. I'd really only consider it again if they had very minimal CC. The thing I was thinking, though, was rushing Zephyr as a first item. I know it seems odd, but hear me out. First off, it has every stat you'd want. Yi desperately wants Tenacity, but doesn't necessarily want Merc's. You want AD and AS, and it gives the same amount of AD as BotRK and 10% more AS. The CDR is hilariously good on him too for Alpha Strike. The issue with Zephyr has always been that people want other stats before it. AD characters want Crit and more AD than it offers, AS tanks like Irelia want more defensive stats. But Yi wants AD/AS/MS/CDR in pretty even amounts. And Stinger/Pickaxe are pretty good on their own as build up items, I'd argue either are as good or better than Cutlass in lane. From there you can even go to Bruta -> Ghostblade as a AD/CDR/AS-centric build, which I think (and this is just personal opinion) feels stronger than AD/AS/Crit all things considered. I would miss the Lifesteal, sure, but I think it's worth trying at least. As far as starting items go, I did one game with Boots4, one with LongSword2, and two with Health Pot/Flask/Ward. I think having Flask really helps a lot for your first couple levels, especially in mid against ranged opponents. I didn't feel particularly stronger with Long Sword, nor did Boots feel super necessary considering your already high base MS alongside Alpha and Highlander. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
I'll try the Zephyr, it looks nice on paper. | ||
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Iblis
904 Posts
On the topic of sololane like mid or top I honestly think Botrk is bad on bruiser/caster AD like aatrox, yi, wukong and anything that has (multiple) AoE skills that scales on AD you lose a lot of AoE damage that really makes the difference in teamfight, 2v2, 3v3 etc. I go for BT anytime I'm way ahead in lane and can afford the BF early or go for tiamat-> hydra the health regen from tiamat will give you more HP back especially on hard lane where you can't autoattack as you want and a vamp scepter won't help much. I'm now just abusing hydra into spirit visage until they nerf spirit visage. Hydra+spirit visage gives you 42+ hp / 5sec and 20% CDR if you fight in middle of minions waves the AoE lifesteal gives you so much HP back you can't lose a duel. You can clear waves in seconds and go roam to 5men uncontested drake or collapse as 3 on the midlaner. | ||
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Iblis
904 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
I also absolutely loooooove Zephyr's on him now, AS+CDR is so crazy with his Q I want to third this, zephyr I think has got to be core on him. It's a flexible build path, offers a lot of utility and I think what is really underestimated is that 10% movespeed. Yi is already pretty fast, so this scales really well with him and means he outspeeds 99% of champs even if he's only at boots 1 to their boots 2. That's critical to letting him stick to someone and really crush them. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Hydra is one build I really want to try, but it always feels awkward. Like, yeah great if you're split pushing, but if you're fighting, BT is basically the same price (worse build up, I'll admit) but more AD, and the AoE doesn't feel that noticeable in teamfights. That said, I've only used it a couple times on various champs, so I'll do some builds with it and see how it feels. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
It's a very good item if you're not ahead in your lane because the AD doesn't need to be stacked also. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
It might be horrible in an actual game tho, but it was very nice to just spamspamspam all day and then eventually upgrade it to gain a colossal burst boost. Upgraded tear to Manamune after Zephyr. - the idea was to get it as a substitute for Vampiric (use meditate for sustain instead of life steal), to go straight into Zephyr safely. It felt more as a somewhat more "liquid" route since it avoided the akward Scepter+Boots phase. Personally I don't understand why you'd want Hydra over something else? His clear is already insane thanks to his kit. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
It's one of those items that's like, yeah I'd love to have it, but I can't really justify buying it over something that gives more, just because it gives you a nice mana pool. But then again, I suck, so I could be wrong  Try it out in a game and tell us! | ||
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