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On January 01 2013 11:01 Terranasaur wrote:
So what's the basic rundown of AP Yi? Like. TLDR version?
Be an unkillable asshole in lane who wastes the junglers time and kills the enemy if they get too low from your harass. Then try to get resets in teamfights.
Most yi's start with a lot of AP from runes and and amp tome. That by itself is enough sustain since your W has a crazy ratio. The more AP you have the faster you can clear the wave. Yi is one of the fastest clearers in the game. There's also a radius you can hit the enemy champion while clearing the wave but I don't know it. After that you can rush deathfire/deathcap/lichbane/zhonyas then go towards voidstaff.
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On January 09 2013 09:41 krndandaman wrote:
what is the best way of beating ap master yi? (I'm level 16 first account normal games)
my 1500 elo friend says its pretty easy but the team has to be coordinated. I just followed his advice and built MR items such as abyssal scepter and banshee's veil. I didn't feed but every time I play vs an AP yi my whole team gets wrecked and I am helpless because I'm teemo. Granted I am teemo, but is AP yi seriously that much of a noob killer? it's so frustrating and I it's beyond me why my whole team has to build MR items just because of 1 champ that isn't even an AP carry.
Play AP Yi a few times. Your friend is pretty much right. If you can prevent Yi from getting a reset or AoEing your team down he's not that strong late game.
I don't get what you mean by AP Yi's not an AP carry.
Also don't waste your time trying to hit through his 300armor/mr shield heal.
Yeah and you really can't beat him in lane and if you somehow push the wave when he backs, and go gank, you'll probably lose your tower. It sucks.
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What do you guys think about jungle AP yi? Is it feasible, or do you not get enough farm for it to really work?
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On January 09 2013 10:02 GolemMadness wrote:
What do you guys think about jungle AP yi? Is it feasible, or do you not get enough farm for it to really work?
I don't think you'd have enough damage to kill big camps in a reasonable amount of time.
You can do it if you go "hybrid" by getting a madreds first and try it out but I suspect Yi needs AP to get that first reset.
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So with the increased gold in jungle, I've been doing AD jungle Yi with a pretty good amount of success. I go 9/21/0 masteries, attack speed marks, armor seals, magic/level glyphs, movement speed quints. Items are madreds razor/avarice blade/beserkers greaves/warmogs/atma's impaler/infinity edge/situational items.
I actually feel pretty rich when I do this (for a jungler). I'm averaging about 13k gold per game, and it's not that's reliant upon getting kills (although my dragon control has been pretty strong, so maybe 12k gold without dragon dominance).
Also I max e before q... am I crazy? I feel like max q first actually kind of sucks, because you only get to use it once every 10 seconds at max rank, and before then its a lot longer. Once you get on top of someone with red buff, you don't really need to use it again (unless they flash away, but they're probably going to get away anyways)? And once you get highlander your speed lets you stay on top of them pretty easily. I suppose max q let's you farm faster and have a higher burst if you get a reset, but it costs 100 mana per cast at level 5. And with madreds, its not like you clear slowly.
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On January 09 2013 10:34 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 09:58 obesechicken13 wrote:On January 09 2013 09:41 krndandaman wrote:
what is the best way of beating ap master yi? (I'm level 16 first account normal games)
my 1500 elo friend says its pretty easy but the team has to be coordinated. I just followed his advice and built MR items such as abyssal scepter and banshee's veil. I didn't feed but every time I play vs an AP yi my whole team gets wrecked and I am helpless because I'm teemo. Granted I am teemo, but is AP yi seriously that much of a noob killer? it's so frustrating and I it's beyond me why my whole team has to build MR items just because of 1 champ that isn't even an AP carry. Play AP Yi a few times. Your friend is pretty much right. If you can prevent Yi from getting a reset or AoEing your team down he's not that strong late game. I don't get what you mean by AP Yi's not an AP carry. Also don't waste your time trying to hit through his 300armor/mr shield heal. Yeah and you really can't beat him in lane and if you somehow push the wave when he backs, and go gank, you'll probably lose your tower. It sucks. sigh it's so annoying because I feel that at noob levels there is barely any team coordination if at all and a half decent ap master yi can single handedly win the game by getting fed to insane levels.
It has a lot more to do with the fact that at low levels, yi will have probably 2-3x the farm of anybody else. And also, without a jungle, barring serious misplays only a couple of picks can even threaten yi. The combination of free farm and squishy, under farmed enemies makes up yi lethal at low levels. Just a phase of the game you need to live through.
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probably the best combo i've found w/ Yi is w/ Amumu and Miss Fortune. That wombo-combo does so much damage that it'll usually get every1 low enough to be sweeped by alpha strike.
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Hm... got my Swain counterpicked by a Yi, and didn't really care since post-6 he would never be able to kill me, all I had to do was let him Q the wave while standing far, take cs from the tower, etc. and then 5 times in a row he casts Q, I run away from the wave, his Q hits the 3 melee minions then instead of hoping to the nearest caster minion it hops to me, who is farther than them.
My thoughts were that he lucked them out and, well, it damaged me faster than my pots could so at one point he all-ined me and flashed for the kill, then later told me that Alpha Strike is supposed to prioritise champions.
It's the first time I hear it and I double-checked the wiki to make sure it didn't change since the last time I read it, and there's nothing like it mentioned. Is it true? If so, are there specifications as to how it prioritise (since it should have targeted me as the 2nd occurrence, not the 4th) and thus specific ways to avoid it? Sounds strange.
(I didn't want to stay in, eat it, and answer with EQ+autos since he has meditate anyway.)
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I didn't want to answer since I don't know but I thought Yi's Alpha strike was random. I've had it miss me when I thought it would hit.
This prompted me to one day try to learn how Yi's Alpha strike works in selecting its targets.
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On January 31 2013 12:14 Alaric wrote:
It's the first time I hear it and I double-checked the wiki to make sure it didn't change since the last time I read it, and there's nothing like it mentioned. Is it true? If so, are there specifications as to how it prioritise (since it should have targeted me as the 2nd occurrence, not the 4th) and thus specific ways to avoid it? Sounds strange.
(I didn't want to stay in, eat it, and answer with EQ+autos since he has meditate anyway.)
AS has no priority on champions whatsoever but it still hits 4 targets if available.
If there are like 5-6 creeps and 1 champion the chance it will hit the champion is still reasonably high.
You are correct in assuming that if a real priority exists and you are close enough to get hit after the first target you would be second so obviously thats not the case.
Also its not like the champ will always get hit last in line as you may have experienced as well.
If you are that interested in analyzing it I propose a 1vs1. The non-yi side at one point in the game has to create a big wave (12-15 creeps) and the yi-side alpha strikes with the champ standing behind the creeps. If a champion priority would exist he should get hit once every AS.
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Played a game as Sona w/ Ez carry. Game going pretty well, Ez is 7/0 I'm 1/1 or something with a lot of assists. We get a big fight in bot lane, trade 3 for 1. Yi is chilling out by our tri (he's not even in the bush, so we go to kill him.
I'm squishy, but I have like 2/3 hp left. I'm with Ez, Rammus and our mid (I forget who). They're all at 2/3 or higher hp, and Rammus can taunt right?
Not sure what happens, but all of a sudden Yi gets a quadra. I'm confused as shit. We all are.
He proceeds to carry the fuck out of the game. I was so confused.
Quite the most depressing ranked game I've ever had. Fucking 7/0 Ezreal in lane, still lose.
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AP yi is really strong, thats why he is being nerfed. Yes, he can be dealt with by someone with good sustain and clear and good team coordination, but he is really strong.
Anyone who tells you "oh AP yi he's just pubstomp champ easy to counter once you know how total shit in my 1400+ elo" is just an idiot. Its the same thing with Kassadin. M5 ran AP yi a few months ago and collected more than one penta for it in tourney play. Turn on streams at 2300elo and see people getting crapped on by Kassadin all day. These champs aren't as cheesy as some people seem to think. They have weaknesses but with good play they have really brutal strengths to make up for it.
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On January 31 2013 15:38 sob3k wrote:
AP yi is really strong, thats why he is being nerfed. Yes, he can be dealt with by someone with good sustain and clear and good team coordination, but he is really strong.
Anyone who tells you "oh AP yi he's just pubstomp champ easy to counter once you know how total shit in my 1400+ elo" is just an idiot. Its the same thing with Kassadin. M5 ran AP yi a few months ago and collected more than one penta for it in tourney play. Turn on streams at 2300elo and see people getting crapped on by Kassadin all day. These champs aren't as cheesy as some people seem to think. They have weaknesses but with good play they have really brutal strengths to make up for it.
Ap yi is just a stupid champion that gets free harrass and infinite sustain in lane, and if the other team is strong enough to get your team low 4v5/your team is full of squishies he just has a field day.
The entire design of the champion is anti fun to play against.
Also, Kass got way way stronger when you can safely start pure sustain.
Edit: In fact hes actually much stronger once your past the elo where people never group so he can actually teamfight and get resets. (yi)
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Dammit I just started to enjoy the amazingness that is AP Yi and now he's going to get changed. I've changed my mind on the changes they look good tho.
BTW after hat/LB do you guys get DFG or Nashor's usually?
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I'd probably go Zhonya's or DFG. I don't think Nashor's is that great on Yi, since you really need to get resets and you're probably not sitting around and autoing anyone for too terribly long to take advantage of the on hit damage.
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I’ve been doing some theorycrafting for Yi’s upcoming remake, since I’ve enjoyed playing him quite a bit and I think his remade form looks interesting. Basically as far as I can see, everything is a straight buff to AD Yi, while more or less removing AP Yi from the game and rolling much of its strengths into AD Yi. AD Yi now has a better passive, AP Yi's Q capacity for burst and waveclear, strong healing from W when you get low, and free AD plus AD-scaling true damage from E’s passive and active (respectively). His ult is also better, I think, as you can get Yisets without having to time it correctly, and it has the capacity to be straight up better stat-wise and duration-wise than the previous one.
Obviously new AD Yi won’t have as high of burst or sustain as current AP, but it is much better than it is for current AD Yi. This is pretty intriguing for me, so these are my thoughts as of current. Feel free to add, detract, and/or show math if you see something.
Positions:
+ Show Spoiler +Top: + Show Spoiler +
I think he’s going to share a lot of the same issues as current Yi top, but will be stronger as well. Since you no longer have to choose between waveclear/sustain (AP) or sustained damage/fighting power (AD), he has the capacity to clear semi-safely against many champs while also being able to fight head-to-head against certain matchups.
Mid: + Show Spoiler +
Yi’s mid will certainly be weaker than it is currently, but I don’t think we’re looking at it disappearing altogether. I think he actually has a better place in mid than top still, playing close to a Zed or Kha mid (though likely not on their level of overall power). He will be able to do what mid Yi does currently, that is, push and poke with Q while sitting back and occasionally healing when he gets bursted, while roaming with his high MS and surprise burst on unsuspecting side lanes. On the plus side, he’ll now be able to follow up burst with higher kill potential on his autos (which AP Yi can’t really do pre-Lichbane).
Jungle: + Show Spoiler +
Looking at some pre-release videos, his clear time looks monstrous. With Q’s CD being reduced on autos (and with both of Double Strike’s hits giving the CDR), he can clear Blue -> Red without assistance at minimal health lost (using pots, ofc). He still has the issue of having no CC for ganks, but that’s always been his issue.
Stats/Items:
+ Show Spoiler +The stats that look good on him now are fairly obvious. You’re going to want to build semi ADC with AD/AS/Crit/some APen. On-hit isn’t entirely out of the question thanks to his naturally high AS, Highlander, and Double Strike. That said, there aren’t a lot of great on-hit items for him. As for prioritization, I’m unsure as of yet. - AD scales so well on him now, thanks to Q and E’s scaling being pretty aggressive with high amounts of AD. 15% true damage and 100% AD on an AoE mid/late game is no joke, to be sure.
- Crit is Crit, great on a champ with high AS, an AS steroid, Double Strike, and Q can crit now. This will make him bursty as anything on Q and give his pushing power something special.
- AS is fantastic, as it is on any champ that gets free damage on their autos. A moderate amount of AD mixed with AS can make your E’s active deal a solid amount of true damage in an extended trade, very valuable as many top matchups will stack armor against you.
- ArPen is about what you’d expect. Build when enemies build armor, get a fair amount of flat to tear through squishies without any armor items.
This leaves me at somewhat of an impasse. AD will scale really hard on him, so there’s precedent to stack it as high as possible. At the same time, AS gives him a lot thanks to E boosting his autos quite a bit. Therefore, I think prioritization will likely be AD >= AS > Crit (== APen depending on the armor situation)
As for items, with these stats in mind, there’s likely a few ways to go.
+ Show Spoiler +I originally thought BoRK would be a solid choice, as it gave both AD and AS, but it’s a fairly low amount of AD, since it relies a lot on the passive. That said, it’s a decent amount of AS, the % health proc works with Double Strike and can synergize with Highlander, and the active gives him even more sticking power (and possibly gank potential if you build it on Jungle Yi).
Bloodthirster is a pretty good choice, as it kind of fills a similar role to building DC first on AP Yi. You get that big amount of damage on your Q, allowing you to farm and chunk people who get caught in it, also scaling your E very hard.
IE is solid as ever. It turns your Q into a proccy nightmare while also giving you a decent amount of AD for all the goodness that comes with it.
Shiv seems pretty good for him. Avarice early can help your farm style (unless you’re in a lane you can just stomp on) while giving you pretty decent split pushing power. Alpha Strike gives “movement” for Shiv’s counter, so you can auto -> Alpha -> get proc back really quick, and the AS gets your Alpha strike up even quicker, so they boost each other’s prowess. This seems to be a great item for a split push oriented Yi.
Hydra is another possibility. I still see Yi as a pusher, and this not only gives the pushing power on your autos, but +75 AD is nothing to joke at with Q and E. While it doesn’t have Fiora’s capacity to AoE a team down on her ult, it still gives you some decent AoE damage in teamfights if you Q to a squishy, AoE them down with Alpha, then wail on their back line with E+R+Hydra.
I honestly have never used Youmuu’s on a champ before, but I can see it being decent. Synergy with ult, some AD, some ArPen. Still, not a lot of AD, and no AS outside of the active. I’d probably take a pass, but might consider it if I had an early Bruta for whatever reason. I’d probably take it over BC, since he’s not the best stacker of BC’s passive and would probably prefer Ghostblade’s active over it.
Onto Scimitar/Maw. I’m not honestly sure which one is better on him, both have their upsides. QSS is great to help with his hard CC issues, Maw gives more AD (given that you won’t be at 100% life most of the game) and has a much smoother build.
I don’t think I’d go with the new Spellbreaker item. Not enough crit to warrant it over Maw, and if I have an Avarice I’d rather it go into Shiv.
Zephyr is an item I really like in theory on a lot of champs. That said, justifying it is a bit hard. Tenacity is great since I’m likely going to get Zerkers over Merc’s, the stats are all nice for him. I would pick this up in a build where I’m not focusing on Crit, and after I’ve gotten a bit of AD.
Manamune/Muramana is interesting. You can’t really stack it all that fast, but then again your Q’s cost has gotten increased. You can also stack it by just activating E, since it no longer costs mana. I don’t think I’d consider this a top pick, but if after playing him mana becomes a problem I’ll likely consider it.
As for a defensive item (outside of Maw/Scimitar) I think GA is your best option by far. Since you don’t need Highlander up to get resets, you can even go in early, Alpha strike everything, and then get your Yisets while you rez.
Likely what I’ll be trying first is a Riven-style Doran’s and BT core, but throwing in a Shiv or Zephyr if I can. My first few games will be focusing less on Crit and more on pure AD/AS/Lifesteal with Zerkers/BT/Hydra/Zephyr/LW/Shiv being my final goal in some order.
Not sure which Marks to run. AD/ArPen will help Q farming, AS helps with trading. I think his playstyle is going to be a mix between AD and AP as of current, farming/pushing/poking hard with Q, but now able to follow up with actual AD stats if he gets into auto trades.
Obviously it's a long way off, but I enjoy this sort of theorycrafting.
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Cool theorycraft there. Yi and old Tryndamere (before the remake) were my favorite champs (built AD). I always enjoyed the "dodge the CC" minigame. I will really enjoy this huge buff.
Maybe he will have a jungle speed on par with the current fastest ones.
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As long as I can push towers like a mofo out of jungle. I'll be okay with the remake. They'll probably kill off my tanky AD jungle Yi though given the changes to wuju style.
I hate BotRK on Yi. The dude runs at 500+ movement speed with his ult (or more) and has a gap closer. Not enough AD to justify it in my opinion. Granted I do run movement speed quints on him out of the jungle but meh. This is probably going to be even more the case since attacking opponents lowers the cooldown of alpha strike.
Also, I feel like Riot is potentially setting themself up with a Xin Zhao of yore situation. Alpha strike's cooldown going down with autos and also having a mini-crit potential is going to be really problematic if they don't fine tune that stuff really well.
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EPT
