EPT[Champion] Udyr - Page 25
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Gondlem
Australia642 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
If he doesn't push it then your laner doesn't have any problems and if will push slightly if you're not last hitting it and presumably you're not holding it because you gain just as much from farming jungle than just last hitting for 10 seconds. | ||
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Deleted User 30223
3104 Posts
don't get it. at all. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
Also those replays helped me a bunch. Tyvm teutonica :D Edit: another thing I noticed is that even though I usually end up having the most creep farm on my team (I ended up getting my boots2, HoG, philo, chainvest and recurve at 20min - one assist from a gank) I don't really feel I'm tanky enough. Maybe its just that at lower levels games are such kill fests that one or two guys on the other team manage to get plenty of damage even though they don't really have good farm. | ||
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Gondlem
Australia642 Posts
I know it's a bit of an unpopular item but I've felt pretty strong going ionic spark if I'm fed and already have wits. Do people normally go triforce or mallet? | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Some games call for trinity relatively early. Naturally doing more damage and being faster is going to help you survive as well. Trinity makes you really hard to kite. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
MBR is simply really hard to buy since its popular to fill your slots with dorans or gold items that suddenly having to save 3 slots for 3 poor items to get 1 good but very expensive one is just usually a bad choice. If you find yourself with 4k gold lying around it's not the worst. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On March 06 2012 02:31 Slayer91 wrote: When's the last time you've seen a jungler go full items though? (i mean literally max gold that you still have money to upgrade wits after elixirs) MBR is simply really hard to buy since its popular to fill your slots with dorans or gold items that suddenly having to save 3 slots for 3 poor items to get 1 good but very expensive one is just usually a bad choice. If you find yourself with 4k gold lying around it's not the worst. the slot issue is a good point. IMO they should remove the razors, like they do for dominion. There's like no reason for that to be part of the item, and you end up losing the razor passive anyways, so you get a mish-mash of a little extra AD and armor for 1000 gold. As it is, there isn't much point in having it build from razors, especially with wriggles being such a good and cost-efficient upgrade for them. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
Or you could go the standard Udyr route and ignore dps items that aren't wits. I like getting an atma's late on Udyr, but I rarely actually complete 5-6 items on him in a standard game. Also, MBR is the absolute shit... when completed. It's the unfortunate fact that you're buying dead inventory space until you have the 3.8k for MBR that makes MBR such a bad item, because you could have bought a BF sword and been scary during that time instead. reworking MBR's components could take it from a niche item you build on Kog and Teemo into a real item that all on-hit champs would want. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Gondlem
Australia642 Posts
On March 06 2012 06:51 Offhand wrote:Or you could go the standard Udyr route and ignore dps items that aren't wits. I like getting an atma's late on Udyr, but I rarely actually complete 5-6 items on him in a standard game. Yeah I normally don't get a second damage item, it's just specific scenarios where I'll be 8-0 with randuins already finished and I want to be able to carry, or 5 out of 6 items finished with other tanky champs on the team and more damage seems useful. I've normally been getting triforce if it's the last item of the build or ionic spark in the fed situation where I just want to crush people. Surprised nobody thinks spark is any good on Udyr actually, I feel like I hit unbelivably hard with it and it costs a fair bit less than triforce. I'll give an earlier game triforce a go though as I haven't done that yet. | ||
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StUfF
Australia1437 Posts
Slayer91 knows best. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On March 23 2012 11:40 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: run me down your solo top tiger build? i'm using ad/arpen/armor/mres, 9/21/0, cloth+5 -> wriggles merc wits phage hog -> finishing the rest in whatever order From the GD; didn't answer this because I went to sleep before it was posted. Runes: + Show Spoiler + There's 3 real options for runes: 1: ad/armpen/armour/mres 2: armour/ad/armour/mres 3: lifesteal/ad/armour/mres Basically the first is the balanced set up against a not too difficult lane. The second is my standard against an expecte difficult lane. If the lane is an AP I run flat MR quints and blues, but you need to have a page for that specifically. The third is just a theoretical alternative with hte new patch that I thought of. Basically instead of wriggles you get 2x dorans+chain vest with lifesteal quints. Armourpen is good but not needed on udyr because you do a decent amount of magic damage from Q anyway. You will generally get boots+3 with armourpen because it's an agressive start. I'd normally go cloth+5 in other situations. Build: My core on udyr used to be wriggles/triforce/mercs, possible sticking in wits end first and possibly sticking in hog first. The thing about hog is that randuins is generally worse than frozen heart if the hog isn't farming for a long time (if you need the hp dorans or phage are better) and if you don't need the attack and movement speed slow that much. (Basically dangerous autoattackers especially strong lategame AD carry means you might want randuins more than heart) My new build is probably like: 2x dorans, chain vest, triforce-->frozen-->wits-->FoN, or just go back to normal wriggles triforce. If I'm getting wits because I want sustained damage more than burst and chasing (usually when you're staying in lane for a long time vs armour stack especially) you get wriggles/wits/phage and treat that as your "core". "core" means you start building around their team after it's done, so your typical tank items frozen/fon/GA/randuins/aegis etc. Your build seems very solid but I think triforce is an insanely good item on udyr if you're not stupidly behind, you have so much HP because of your base stats with solo lane levels that combined with turtle you just need a bit of resists to get away with a triforce while being very tanky. Also against really gay AP lanes (like kennen, or even AD kennen) philo is a nice choice because it lets you turtle shield without worrying about running oom as fast and the regen is nice when you're zoned off creeps and farming at tower. I'm uploading my recent udyr games to this thread. There's about 2 or 3 lanedyr ones. I used to play irelia when I had to go top but I'm better at udyr anyways and people aren't as used to it so I just beast people even when I do retarded stuff because I played jungle for last 5 games. Sidenote brag I just hit 2400 basically with only udyr lololololololoollo. (Some sona and irelia and skarner thrown in there though, basically I tried to practice other champs and then decided my udyr needed more practice it wasn't good enough and even now it's still not good enough QQQQQ) | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
1: Early oracles: REALLY strong because udyr is basically a beast who never dies and doesn't take shit from anyone so you can run around killing wards all day. Note: Don't do this in games with lots of actions/kills/buff steals/dragons/dives etc because the warding is less relevant (arriving in time is what matters), less consistent, items matter more and dying is more likely. In quiet games especailly in ranked 5's type stuff unless you're playing M5 then it tends to be more effective. 2: Skipping philo: Tried this, failed epicly but got carried, I'm too used to having that extra mp5 and hp5 and spamming stances accordingly. 3: Jungle route: You CAN go red before second wolf camp, it's slightly faster and if you have a good pull you should still have all your pots, but what I like to do if I think they will steal my red now is just check the red brush for a lee sin or something and then run to your wolves to get level 3, usually you have to wait 5 seconds or so anyway. That way you can see if he's going to take your red and if he's not there he won't have red done by the time you're back with level 3. Often they try to kill you at red so that's why you don't always want to do it. 4: Trinity: This item is amazing but shurelyas+randuins+trinity isn't optimal in terms of tank stats, so what you might consider doing is skipping shurelyas and leaving the philo if you get fed and want a trinity. Zeal is often my first item but phage is good too. Shurelyas+randuins is best followed up with some heavy resists like aegis or a frozen heart before getting a philo. Getting frozen+fon straight after works but only if they are squishy enough for your damage to steal relevant. Teamfighting: I said previously that udyr is bad at peeling, but what you need to keep in mind lategame basically an AD carry can kill you if you dive them with just 1 CC spell and then they can easily 1v1 you so you need to get out and you've wasted half your hp for nothing. The good thing is you're the tankiest guy in the game so if their guys try to dive your carries the 1 second stun is suddenly great when your AD can kill them in like 5 seconds if he gets some distance between them. And while your stunning bruisers you just use W and tank their AD carry before running out of range. If he continues to move in you need to run up and stun him. It's safe now because his bruiesrs have already comitted and are lower than you, you can randuins them and run away stunning the bruisers once more if they try to get out+turn on you. This is, however, lategame with 3+ damage item carries and when you're not that fed and they aren't hard diving your carries that much. Most of the time you will just be waiting for their AD carry or AP carry to committ to coming close to your team before hard diving them, if they turn to focus you the rest of your team is getting free damage but they can't kill you anywhere near as fast as lategame meaning you basically beast them. EDIT: I've got a huge bunch of replays here so my only advice is that the longer games tend to be better. There are some stomps where my team wins in 20 minutes and I think there might be a quick loss in there too. Lane udyr: http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/329562/ http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/329550/ Jungle udyr: http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/329548/ http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/329582/ http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/318784/ http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/288713/ http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/329578/ http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/255584/ http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/255583/ Snoopeh on udyr+laneteut: http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/255593/ Also yeah my naming systems are pretty retarded I just stick a few keywords in there as soon as it's played so I'll remember what happened. I think this is all but 2 of the solo queue udyr replays since I hit 2300. One of them I dc'd and then restarted PC and router and came back and it was too late to be effective and we lost quickly, second game I think I won, might have been a lane udyr game against irelia where I ultimately pulled ahead and teamfighted better than her, not sure though, I didnt record because I hadn't started leaguereplays since the dc game. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Level 9 you have 5 in turtle, 3 in tiger, 1 in bear. Level 14 you have 5 in turtle, 5 in pheonix 3 in tiger, 1 in bear OR 5 turtle, 5 tiger, 3 bear. The thing is you have more movement speed and duarion on bear, and higher damage. Tiger stance is actually better in teamfights than pheonix stance. Pheonix stance relies on staying on targets for a long time but not really doing any more damage. Tiger only needs 1 hit to guarantee more damage than the total pheonix AoE, and the attack speed steriod is similar to the AD steriod on pheonix. The optimal 1v1 on udyr comes from 5 tiger, 5 turtle, 3 bear, 5 pheonix with W-->run in with E-->stun-->Q-->R 3 hits-->W-->E-->Q-->R 3 hits repeat. However most of the time it's better to get 5 in bear because you there won't be any sitting duck targets that make it worth maxing pheonix anyway. CDR is also more effective on tiger udyr because you can't stack the AoE on pheonix and it does less damage and the AD/AP bonus is always up, but the tiger DoT is pretty huge and reducing the CD on it is great. Wit's end is good for pushing towers but honestly if you want better pushing tower just go and bash some fools face in bottom lane and get your jungler (all junglers are AoE these days) to go top for a while. People with play ganky mids or tops let me do this on udyr jungle and I get super farmed and have time to farm both lane and jungle and still be in position to help my team because I run so fast. If you're getting trinity on jungle udyr and their teams not that kitey (like for example sivir is a nightmare) getting 3 in bear and then maxing tiger is a viable choice but you have to remember when you have to stop putting points into bear haha. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
or is 3tiger 5turtle 5bear 5phoenix superior? | ||
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