Personal opinion on jungle udyr - I like R->QE/WR R Q/W depending on whether I want to gank or farm.

On the topic of top lane udyr, I'm liking hydra more and more as an item to rush against any lane that can't burst you. Gives insane sustain, damage and waveclear all in one item, and you can pretty much go pure tank from there. Triforce is better for single target, but hydra gives wave clear, which is something tiger udyr lacks without spending tons of mana or skilling R.

Of course if you get absolute free-farm/fed, having both is very nice, but that leaves you with only 3 slots for defensive items which are also extremely late. The one game I did get both I was legendary with triforce hydra randuins FH and mercs though, so YMMV.

I'd imagine the 3 defensive items of choice on Udyr would be FH, randuin's and bulwark though. Locket is nice, but it's kinda a mid tier defensive item when udyr really likes the high tier ones(scaling with turtle is better with slot efficient items come lategame) .

Also, one more thing is turtle usage. If you aren't dying, you should be using turtle less, and more bear/phoenix/tiger. IMO in teamfights you want to use turtle as little as possible that still allows you to do your job. Turtle is an amazing skill at reducing incoming damage, but if everybody is dead and you're still at 60% life, maybe you could've killed somebody a bit faster or stunned another person.

mordek

United States12705 Posts

April 04 2013 12:40 GMT

#1062

Impressions so far, I feel weaker than I did playing udyr before. The small dash on bear and no creep block is very nice. Just didn't feel like I did much more damage than before and felt less tanky the whole game despite building only tank items. I'm no saint though

I think you bring up a good point about higher tier defensive items probably being a better pick-up for udyr.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

April 04 2013 15:21 GMT

#1063

On April 04 2013 18:43 Amui wrote:
Personal opinion on jungle udyr - I like R->QE/WR R Q/W depending on whether I want to gank or farm.

On the topic of top lane udyr, I'm liking hydra more and more as an item to rush against any lane that can't burst you. Gives insane sustain, damage and waveclear all in one item, and you can pretty much go pure tank from there. Triforce is better for single target, but hydra gives wave clear, which is something tiger udyr lacks without spending tons of mana or skilling R.

Of course if you get absolute free-farm/fed, having both is very nice, but that leaves you with only 3 slots for defensive items which are also extremely late. The one game I did get both I was legendary with triforce hydra randuins FH and mercs though, so YMMV.

I'd imagine the 3 defensive items of choice on Udyr would be FH, randuin's and bulwark though. Locket is nice, but it's kinda a mid tier defensive item when udyr really likes the high tier ones(scaling with turtle is better with slot efficient items come lategame) .

Also, one more thing is turtle usage. If you aren't dying, you should be using turtle less, and more bear/phoenix/tiger. IMO in teamfights you want to use turtle as little as possible that still allows you to do your job. Turtle is an amazing skill at reducing incoming damage, but if everybody is dead and you're still at 60% life, maybe you could've killed somebody a bit faster or stunned another person.

Hm. I half agree with your turtle statement. In teamfights you want to spend little TIME in turtle, but you do want to activate it really often. Activate it for the shield. switch out ASAP.

On April 04 2013 21:40 mordek wrote:
Impressions so far, I feel weaker than I did playing udyr before. The small dash on bear and no creep block is very nice. Just didn't feel like I did much more damage than before and felt less tanky the whole game despite building only tank items. I'm no saint though

I think you bring up a good point about higher tier defensive items probably being a better pick-up for udyr.

Press R more. The first-hit firecone is a buff to his overall damage output, but you have to use it well.

mordek

United States12705 Posts

April 04 2013 15:49 GMT

#1064

I just cycled through R and E in fights and used turtle as needed. Idk. First impressions but it didn't feel great and only reminded me why I gradually stopped jungling him after jungling him almost exclusively.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

April 04 2013 15:55 GMT

#1065

On April 05 2013 00:49 mordek wrote:
I just cycled through R and E in fights and used turtle as needed. Idk. First impressions but it didn't feel great and only reminded me why I gradually stopped jungling him after jungling him almost exclusively.

It really helps if you can get 4 hits off in phoenix before switching out to E/W. Or put the 1 point into Q, 1 hit in phoenix 1 hit in tiger then go back to being a speedy bear? Udyr's surprisingly technical for being a right-click-only melee.

mordek

United States12705 Posts

April 04 2013 16:09 GMT

#1066

Chances are very high I wasn't playing optimally but compared to my previous experiences with udyr it was underwhelming after the st.v hype etc.

Slayer91

Ireland23342 Posts

April 04 2013 16:46 GMT

#1067

On April 04 2013 18:43 Amui wrote:

Also, one more thing is turtle usage. If you aren't dying, you should be using turtle less, and more bear/phoenix/tiger. IMO in teamfights you want to use turtle as little as possible that still allows you to do your job. Turtle is an amazing skill at reducing incoming damage, but if everybody is dead and you're still at 60% life, maybe you could've killed somebody a bit faster or stunned another person.

Pretty slippery slope you got there. If you live at 60% with turtle SPAM, what if you were 30-40% without it, and then suddenly you can get bursted with a few cds and ignite and then they'd back off and wait for cds again and win the teamfight. The whole idea of melee is that you want to get strong enough to 1v1 people easily but lean toward the tanky side so they can't just focus you every fight with consequences. If you are burstable from 100-0 it's almost always a good idea to kill you if you run in first but if you get an extra defensive item and suddenly they can only get to down to 40% if they try it you'll still be able to get out except your team might be in a good situation and you can hit a few stuns and flash out or something.

You should almost always use turtle on cd every time. It takes 1 second to use it and switch to another stance and all the stance actives are terrible now so you want to focus mostly on using whatever is off cd and then auto hitting the target. (exception is pheonix stance 3 extra hits sometimes, but doing 200 more damage is usually going to end up being 100-150 after resists while your 220 turtle shield is easily 500+ points of blocked damgae when you have decent items)

Obviously I'm talking about turtle shield if you are autoing people in turtle stance when other shit is up because you want your free vamp sceptre you are an idiot.
People saying "oh udyr is way stronger now" or "oh udyr feels weaker now" are all just reacting stupidly. They either jump on the bandwagon and discover champ is still decent and have a few good games and say he's broken or they have a few bad games and say this champ still sucks. He's about the same but it's a lot less technical than it used to be with pheonix stance. (someone just said he's surprisingly technical, the R on first hit helped a lot with that)

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