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United States37500 Posts
Udyr, the Animal Spirit
Summoner Skills: Smite/Ghost
Masteries: 21 0 9
Runes:
Quints: Attack Speed
Red: Attack Speed
Yellow: Flat Armor
Blue: Magic Resist per Level
Skill Order: QWQEQW, Q > W > E > R
Item Build: Cloth Armor + 5 hp potions => Boots => Razor => Wiggle’s => Merc Treads => Sheen => Banshee’s => Randuin’s Omen => Trinity Force => Atma’s Impaler
Playstyle
In Patch 1.0.0.109, jungle monsters’ MR has increased. As a result, a lot of spell dependent junglers have been hit hard. Champions like Fiddle and Amumu have essentially been kicked out of their roles. Udyr has suffered a similar fate. Previously, Udyr max’ed Phoenix first as his primary DPS skill while itemizing strictly tankiness. However, after this patch, Phoenix has fallen out of viability. Tiger is the new standard.
Tiger Udyr’s primary focus is to burn through the jungle with amazing speed. With AS runes, AS procs from Tiger and Wiggle procs, Udyr can finish each camp in 2-5 seconds. Jungle path is standard Blue, Wolves, Wraiths, Red, Golem, home to buy boots and gank.
Sheen is the next offensive item to buy because Sheen proc with all your innate AS will mean a lot of quick burst during ganks. Sheen will also help with Udyr’s initially awful mana pool. You can horde Golem Buff until you have Sheen + Catalyst. After those two items, you can safely concede Golem over to your Caster carry.
While I think the current Tiger Udyr can jungle are relatively the same pace as Phoenix Udyr from two patches ago, Tiger Udyr’s greatest strength is his ability to mow down towers now with Tiger + Sheen. If you have the mana, keep your Monkey’s Agility stacks maxed while attacking the tower but make sure to have enough mana for that last switch to Bear so you can safely retreat.
+ Show Spoiler [Old Phoenix Udyr] +] Summoner Skills: Smite/Ghost Masteries: 1 8 21Runes: Quints: Attack Speed Red: Attack Speed Yellow: Flat Armor Blue: Magic Resist per Level Skill Order: RWRERW, R > W > E > Q Item Build: Cloth Armor + 5 hp potions => Boots => HoG => Merc Treads => Randuin’s Omen -OR- Banshee’s Veil => survivability in the form of FoN, Sunfire Cape, Shurelya's Reverie PlaystyleStarting jungle path should be Blue, Wolves, Wraiths, Golem, Red, back to buy boots, try to gank. If you plan on ganking early, get Bear Stance (E) at level 3, instead of another Phoenix. When ganking, activate E in the brush, pop Ghost and cut the enemy off. Ganks obviously work the best if the allies in lane also have some form of CC. As soon as you stun with E, switch over to R. This is important for two reasons. First, it gives you another stack in your passive (increases your AS) and secondly, R is your primary damage stance, especially if you proc. Udyr vs. WarwickWhile both function very well as junglers, Udyr and Warwick play two very different roles for their team. Warwick has a suppression ultimate, making him very keen at ganking. Building him with Bloodrazor allows him better team control of Baron. Udyr, on the other hand, is better served as a tank. Turtle Stance provides Udyr an immense amount of secondary survivability that can be activated every 3 seconds. Udyr maneuvers through his side of the jungle swiftly thanks to his Attack Speed runes and Monkey’s Agility passive. Late game, Udyr is immensely difficult to kill unless he dives the enemy at horrendous odds. WW still requires a level of finesse to kill enemies with his ulti but not die to focus fire. Tips- Make the most out of Turtle Stance to keep your hp up. If Zilean bombs you, switch to Turtle right before the bomb blows to dampen the damage. Karthus begins his ulti? Turtle it. Most spells in the game have an amount of cast time, take advantage of it and switch to turtle right before the damage is dealt.
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United States37500 Posts
After trying out Tiger stance a few times, I still feel it's inferior to Phoenix. If someone wants to write a section for Tiger Udyr, feel free to and I'll add it to the Builds/Guides sticky.
Thanks.
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If you clear the entire jungle you'll reach level 4. There's really no point to getting bear stance at level 3 if you aren't gonna gank until level 4.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 16 2011 08:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
If you clear the entire jungle you'll reach level 4. There's really no point to getting bear stance at level 3 if you aren't gonna gank until level 4.
Which is why I listed the skills as RWRE in the overview but in the Playstyle, I mention you can get bear at level 3 if you plan on ganking early.
I tend to get buffs as soon as Smite is up. So my order is Blue, Wolves, Wraiths, Red. As soon as Red is done, you're level 3. You'll be around half life, so use your best judgment. If you decide that bottom lane is low enough hp where you can gank successfully, go for E right after you level up from Red and rush to bottom lane. In brush, E + Ghost, R for damage. If enemies decide to focus on you instead, stun first while you have E up then switch to W immediately and back off.
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Unless a lane is being retarded aggressive pushing the lane at the exact time you finish red buff you're basically flipping a coin if you're gonna do well or not. Maybe I'm just not a risk taker, but good things don't seem to happen to me in those situations.
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On January 16 2011 09:15 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Unless a lane is being retarded aggressive pushing the lane at the exact time you finish red buff you're basically flipping a coin if you're gonna do well or not. Maybe I'm just not a risk taker, but good things don't seem to happen to me in those situations.
iirc, if your team pushes @ lvl 1, then the lane naturally pushes back ~ jungle lvl 4 and redbuff finish. Not 100% sure about this tho, and i dont remember where i heard it and have only so far proved it by anecdotal evidence, so if some1 proves me wrong, i wont defend it any further, but something to think about.
Tbh, i've found lvl 4 udyr ganks to be the easiest of any jungler (except rammus). He has the right mix of durability, cc and movespeed to make it really simple, unless you're ganking mid, which is impossible to gank anyways (unless you're shaco or eve)
edit: oh yeah, and triforce is a pretty slick damage item for udyr, at the point where phoenix alone doesn't really cut it anymore. I like to get it after omen and bveil, but when i'm wrecking i sometimes get it earlier.
edit2: also i should point out that wriggles is an option if you want to cheese a super fast dragon, but 9 times out of 10 i prefer a hog (which costs comparable amount of money), and have my team group up and do it together.
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Rammus is easier and more effective, but he's banned now in like 90% of games. Why would you run mana runes when Udyr's skills cost less mana the more you skill up?
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actually, you're right, i take that back, udyr's is the 2nd easiest gank in the game
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Without locket if you don't run mana runes you can't be stupid with your skills because you'll go oom unless you hog golem all game. You don't exactly make many mana items on Udyr besides your banshee providing a bit of maximum mana. I like to give up golem to somebody who can make excellent use of it by the third spawn if not the second, but if you hog golem all game they aren't needed.
I use mp5 seals, but I'd probably use glyphs for mp5 if I had em instead ^_^
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Why would you get a wriggles only to do dragon when you can do it with your whole team and not slow down your radiums? Competent teams will have it warded in the first place so you're not going to be able to do it without a whole team fight anyway.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 16 2011 09:29 Darkchylde wrote:
Rammus is easier and more effective, but he's banned now in like 90% of games. Why would you run mana runes when Udyr's skills cost less mana the more you skill up?
On January 16 2011 11:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Without locket if you don't run mana runes you can't be stupid with your skills because you'll go oom unless you hog golem all game. You don't exactly make many mana items on Udyr besides your banshee providing a bit of maximum mana. I like to give up golem to somebody who can make excellent use of it by the third spawn if not the second, but if you hog golem all game they aren't needed.
I use mp5 seals, but I'd probably use glyphs for mp5 if I had em instead ^_^
I thought "mana runes" was in reference to using flat mana glyphs to optimize the clear time on your first run through having enough mana for an extra skill use + golem regen?
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Lantern is better than Randuins rush on Udyr because phoenix sucks a fat one now
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On January 16 2011 11:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Lantern is better than Randuins rush on Udyr because phoenix sucks a fat one now
I still like phoenix stance better than tiger, actually. I don't like Udyr suddenly turning into Ezreal, going all "omg minions, what can I do? My tiger stance, it does nothing! I can't clear minion waves!"
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I question why the non-regen mana runes even exist in the first place. Does anybody actually have a champion they use these on? Unless he says otherwise, I'm assuming he means regen runes for my faith in humanity.
If you wanted a faster clear time you'd run ASPD runes in everything, not max mana runes so you can cast one more phoenix stance ^_^
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On January 16 2011 13:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I question why the non-regen mana runes even exist in the first place. Does anybody actually have a champion they use these on? Unless he says otherwise, I'm assuming he means regen runes for my faith in humanity.
If you wanted a faster clear time you'd run ASPD runes in everything, not max mana runes so you can cast one more phoenix stance ^_^
lilballz ran flat mana to do some kinky stuff with non-golem start (with glyphs, ofc u needed* aspd marks quints to optimize his jungling speed). kinda like doing the same for amumu start at wraiths. the pros are that you chug less pots if you go a wraiths -> wolves -> blue -> b path and your path is less predictable, the cons are that your flat mana runes get progressively less useful.
my question to u tl is how good is tiger now? As in, could you level it over bear instead (I don't think bear stun scales, does it?) or do people pick one of tiger/phoenix to level? I thought that tiger + phoenix synergy would actually be pretty slick because tiger's aspd steroid stays for a couple of extra seconds after cast so u can get a couple of attacks off in phoenix. And that opening qrq or qrr would be okay (like ur mid autoattack the blue before u attack, and then tiger on its ass until its dead, then level r and q -> r -> whatever is better -> e for gank) but this is pure theorycraft as i haven't played udyr in a long time. i would go test it right now but my LoL computer is being used by my bro these days =S
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On January 16 2011 11:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Lantern is better than Randuins rush on Udyr because phoenix sucks a fat one now
120% accurate.
Phoenix just doesn't compare to the new tiger stance.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 16 2011 13:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I question why the non-regen mana runes even exist in the first place. Does anybody actually have a champion they use these on? Unless he says otherwise, I'm assuming he means regen runes for my faith in humanity.
If you wanted a faster clear time you'd run ASPD runes in everything, not max mana runes so you can cast one more phoenix stance ^_^
I seem to remember that both Lilballz and Jatt use 6xFlat Mana on their Udyr pages, and there was a discussion about it in the old thread about them (several people actually picked up on it--I think Smash still uses 6xFlat Mana as well). IIRC the conclusion was that the flat mana glyphs increased both your flexibility (in your ability to do non blue starts) and your speed/safety (as blue regen is based on max mana, the increase in max mana translates into not only the flat mana increase, but also a noticeable increase in regen through the first run).
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Leveling bear gives you the increased movement steroid which makes stunning everything in sight easier (as well as chasing). I like to play Udyr as a stun bot though where I just go around whacking everybody on their team in bear form and dancing to turtle to absorb everything. The crowd control and turtle absorption are the things I like most about Udyr so I tend to focus on them. Phoenix is merely a means to get there as jungling in turtle or bear would be incredibly subpar ^_^
Something you might remember from 5 patches ago means very little to me from a game play standpoint. Even if you're remembering correctly, there's no guarantee it's even still relevant ^_^ My setup certainly isn't optimal, but I've got better things to buy with my IP than 6 niche runes that might help me if I get counter jungled hard. I tend to lose such games due to incompetence anyways so why bother.
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United States37500 Posts
imo, Bear and Turtle are necessary to level to 5. Udyr must maximize his ability to tank and gank. Phoenix and Bear are debatable as which DPS stance to max.
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EPT
