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On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead.
just use turtle and phoenix each once, or just stay in phoenix the entire time. buy a mana pot or something. once you get stances down to like 34 mana each they really dont cost a whole lot, and ive never actually had problems with my mana either
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On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead.
Press Pheonix once, clear camp on the fourth hit, leave. You don't really HAVE to press buttons to clear the camps. Also I tend to take a lot of blue buffs when I play Udyr, so that helps with the mana too.
In a teamfight you can either sit around your carry stunning anyone that dives them, or you can load up a tiger, bear lunge to the enemy adc/assassin/burst mage and then alternate between pheonix and tiger to do stupid amounts of damage. With max CDR you deal, like, 300 on a Tiger (more if you maxed it or built AD) and 200 on a Pheonix proc every second while still hitting them inbetween procs. Turtle as necessary. With Wit's and a Trinity Force, or Blade and IBG you should be able to do respectable damage.
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newdyr feels really good atm. The biggest change is getting the flame breath on your first hit of phoenix. It opens up a lot smoother stance transitions. for clearing things, stuff like load up tiger proc, switch to phoenix, on the third hit switch to turtle, tiger, phoenix. If you time it right your phoenix should just be coming up at that point.
Also messed around with spirit of the elder wraith on him and getting my tanky elsewhere. It's surprisingly good when you consider he has a 1.9 ratio on his phoenix over two procs now and tiger is a really high single target damage spell. I run that with mercs+IBG and pick up a giant's belt somewhere in there early, which gives him plenty of tank till you need to facedive into 5 people.
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I've only played top lane tiger vs shen, so getting bursted wasn't an issue. Built straight hydra into giants belt->FH. Felt really, really good. You have godly sustain if you turtle before using your hydra, and putting a point into phoenix actually lets you go balls to the walls aggressive because you basically outtrade everybody in terms of burst and sustained damage.
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477 Posts
On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead.
Teamfights as udyr is just E, W, E, W, E, W, etc. you ARE the stun bot. You can stun all 5 people once every 6 seconds, so by the time you are done stunning every1 once, you can stun your first target again and repeat. The only time you go Q or R is if you get on an enemy carry or you find that you are winning the teamfight.
As for mana, stop pressing buttons in the jungle. The only time you should be pressing buttons in the jungle is when you have blue @ lvl 1.
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On March 31 2013 21:10 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead. Teamfights as udyr is just E, W, E, W, E, W, etc. you ARE the stun bot. You can stun all 5 people once every 6 seconds, so by the time you are done stunning every1 once, you can stun your first target again and repeat. The only time you go Q or R is if you get on an enemy carry or you find that you are winning the teamfight. As for mana, stop pressing buttons in the jungle. The only time you should be pressing buttons in the jungle is when you have blue @ lvl 1.
if you work tiamat into your build, he does alot of aoe dmg in the teamfights
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477 Posts
On April 01 2013 01:39 Lightswarm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 21:10 czylu wrote:On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead. Teamfights as udyr is just E, W, E, W, E, W, etc. you ARE the stun bot. You can stun all 5 people once every 6 seconds, so by the time you are done stunning every1 once, you can stun your first target again and repeat. The only time you go Q or R is if you get on an enemy carry or you find that you are winning the teamfight. As for mana, stop pressing buttons in the jungle. The only time you should be pressing buttons in the jungle is when you have blue @ lvl 1. if you work tiamat into your build, he does alot of aoe dmg in the teamfights
You're udyr, in the jungle, with limited gold options. You're also melee, with no gap closer, and without any aoe cc. Build tiamat, and you're dead before you get close to a carry.
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On April 01 2013 02:11 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 01:39 Lightswarm wrote:On March 31 2013 21:10 czylu wrote:On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead. Teamfights as udyr is just E, W, E, W, E, W, etc. you ARE the stun bot. You can stun all 5 people once every 6 seconds, so by the time you are done stunning every1 once, you can stun your first target again and repeat. The only time you go Q or R is if you get on an enemy carry or you find that you are winning the teamfight. As for mana, stop pressing buttons in the jungle. The only time you should be pressing buttons in the jungle is when you have blue @ lvl 1. if you work tiamat into your build, he does alot of aoe dmg in the teamfights You're udyr, in the jungle, with limited gold options. You're also melee, with no gap closer, and without any aoe cc. Build tiamat, and you're dead before you get close to a carry.
im just replying to how udyr is suppose to dmg ppl
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You do damage by spamming W+R and E every so often in teamfights. With max or near max cdr, lvl 5 turtle makes you almost unkillable with tanky itemization. R does a very respectable amount of sustained damage as well. Udyr should have no problems doing damage tbh.
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On March 31 2013 21:10 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead. Teamfights as udyr is just E, W, E, W, E, W, etc. you ARE the stun bot. You can stun all 5 people once every 6 seconds, so by the time you are done stunning every1 once, you can stun your first target again and repeat. The only time you go Q or R is if you get on an enemy carry or you find that you are winning the teamfight. As for mana, stop pressing buttons in the jungle. The only time you should be pressing buttons in the jungle is when you have blue @ lvl 1.
no
udyrs primary role as a damage dealer your CC is far inferior to other tanks because you can't realistically run around a teamfight stunning random people for 1 second. However in mexican standoff fights where nobody wants to commit fully it's okay to zone carries rather than overextend to dive them. This is the situation where you stun tanks a lot because you have nothing else to do.. Once everyone goes balls deep the ideal situation is that you rape their ad carry but if their ad carry is too fed you have to try to protect your team and hope to get carried.
As for the limited farm comment you should always try to farm a lot with udyr because otherwise he is useless. If you like being tank and having lots of cc and peel play alistar or maokai or something.
On April 01 2013 02:24 Lightswarm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 02:11 czylu wrote:On April 01 2013 01:39 Lightswarm wrote:On March 31 2013 21:10 czylu wrote:On March 31 2013 09:32 greggy wrote:
I honestly don't get how people actually do damage as udyr. Like, what exactly do you do in a teamfight? Even if I get free reign on an adc their bruisers can most likely kill my adc much faster and there's really not much utility that udyr brings either.. run around e-stunning people? is that really it?
and how the hell are you supposed to sustain mana while clearing the jungle? the spirit stone is really poor mana regen and with turtle nerf I just run out of mana the minute I leave the base, glacial solves that somewhat but if I need to spend like 70-105 (that's with maxed stances, mind you) mana on each camp that's just fucking poor and I'd rather go play nasus or something instead. Teamfights as udyr is just E, W, E, W, E, W, etc. you ARE the stun bot. You can stun all 5 people once every 6 seconds, so by the time you are done stunning every1 once, you can stun your first target again and repeat. The only time you go Q or R is if you get on an enemy carry or you find that you are winning the teamfight. As for mana, stop pressing buttons in the jungle. The only time you should be pressing buttons in the jungle is when you have blue @ lvl 1. if you work tiamat into your build, he does alot of aoe dmg in the teamfights You're udyr, in the jungle, with limited gold options. You're also melee, with no gap closer, and without any aoe cc. Build tiamat, and you're dead before you get close to a carry. im just replying to how udyr is suppose to dmg ppl
Udyr has some of the best sustained damage abilities in the game with 1 or so damage items (trinity or wits end or something). The ideal is that you survive a long teamfight and their carries are dead and you can clean up since very few bruisers stand a chance against you with even farm. The one's that do pretty much can't tank anywhere near as much as you can so they should be softened up by the time the fights near an end.
If you are underfed you won't do much or any damage though so being bad at udyr is really punishing you need to get lots of farm and preferably make sure the enemy team isnt fed. Udyr with wits/trinity and 2 tank items is both tanky and does tons of damage.
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I think I realised what my problem with udyr is. You see, you say to wait until everyone goes balls deep but I've always found that because udyr doesn't really have the ability to do a hard engage (like jarman or malphite or amumu f.e.) you need someone else on your team to do it for you, or get engaged on (which usually spells disaster in pubs). If you do the engaging you just get dropped really fast because you're just running at 5 people while they pew pew you down. And then you can't do any damage because you're dead or close to it.
so tl;dr is: I'm just bad at udyr.
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On April 02 2013 07:40 greggy wrote:
I think I realised what my problem with udyr is. You see, you say to wait until everyone goes balls deep but I've always found that because udyr doesn't really have the ability to do a hard engage (like jarman or malphite or amumu f.e.) you need someone else on your team to do it for you, or get engaged on (which usually spells disaster in pubs). If you do the engaging you just get dropped really fast because you're just running at 5 people while they pew pew you down. And then you can't do any damage because you're dead or close to it.
so tl;dr is: I'm just bad at udyr.
Your bear cooldown is less than enemy team's peel. If you want to initiate, pop bear form. Watch entire enemy team blow every single cd trying to run away. If they split off, chase down 1 person stragler, if they run away together, run back to your team, rinse repeat til you catch someone.
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Hm. I just tried 0-21-9. Feels pretty underwhelming damage-wise. 9-21-0 with MPen seems to work best for me, although I'd really like to run some 17-13-0 stuff with ArPen/MPen. hm mh hm
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I honestly have no idea where you guys are not doing damage as Udyr. The pheonix change has made his up-front damage pretty damned insane. I've played 6 games with him since the remake and I don't even really feel like I need a damage item anymore. 0/21/9 -> locket/aegis, mercs, locket/aegis, bulwark, then situational. I've just been going wardens -> randuins after that.
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United States10135 Posts
im ashamed to say i max out E xD nah jk but srsly. just walk into a teamfight, press E, right click every champion. then W. then rinse and repeat and you honestly win every teamfight. ravenous hydra, and boom, massive damage. your R proc is also great to deal free damage to their team.
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Or you could just E, R, auto, W, auto, R, auto and watch people die. I've seen people talk about Udyr on TL for like a year and a half and seriously like 90% of the people on this forum don't understand just how strong pheonix stance is in teamfights. That's why you always get posts about people thinking that Udyr doesn't do damage or running around like a headless kangaroo in bear stance stunning everyone instead of just killing them and asking if you should max tiger or some shit out of jungle as if Udyr can only do damage with tiger. Not to mention the people that think not maxing turtle second is a good idea.
I DON'T GET IT. Udyr is probably the most straight forward and simple champion to play. People way overthink Udyr when all you gotta do is kill shit upfront.
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On April 02 2013 13:05 koreasilver wrote:
Or you could just E, R, auto, W, auto, R, auto and watch people die. I've seen people talk about Udyr on TL for like a year and a half and seriously like 90% of the people on this forum don't understand just how strong pheonix stance is in teamfights. That's why you always get posts about people thinking that Udyr doesn't do damage or running around like a headless kangaroo in bear stance stunning everyone instead of just killing them and asking if you should max tiger or some shit out of jungle as if Udyr can only do damage with tiger. Not to mention the people that think not maxing turtle second is a good idea.
I DON'T GET IT. Udyr is probably the most straight forward and simple champion to play. People way overthink Udyr when all you gotta do is kill shit upfront.
this. Build ridiculously tanky and laugh as your ludicrous base damage wrecks the enemy team. I feel like another mistake made with Udyr is people's desire to initiate and dive all at once. Sure, if you can get to their carry, you wreck them. But the best way to do that is not pressing bear and walking through their entire team. Let someone else initiate, or peel for your team until you find the right moment to kill their carry. Or just zone them, or, well, anything but diving headlong into the enemy team thinking that you're doing your job and your team is so bad for losing every teamfight.
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phage and/or wit's end into tanking items and udyr wrecks.
R > W > E > R, then R > W/E (situational).
the thing to remember is udyr doesn't synergise well with/against many champs, so think before you decide to pick him.
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On April 02 2013 15:21 Wetty wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 13:05 koreasilver wrote:
Or you could just E, R, auto, W, auto, R, auto and watch people die. I've seen people talk about Udyr on TL for like a year and a half and seriously like 90% of the people on this forum don't understand just how strong pheonix stance is in teamfights. That's why you always get posts about people thinking that Udyr doesn't do damage or running around like a headless kangaroo in bear stance stunning everyone instead of just killing them and asking if you should max tiger or some shit out of jungle as if Udyr can only do damage with tiger. Not to mention the people that think not maxing turtle second is a good idea.
I DON'T GET IT. Udyr is probably the most straight forward and simple champion to play. People way overthink Udyr when all you gotta do is kill shit upfront. this. Build ridiculously tanky and laugh as your ludicrous base damage wrecks the enemy team. I feel like another mistake made with Udyr is people's desire to initiate and dive all at once. Sure, if you can get to their carry, you wreck them. But the best way to do that is not pressing bear and walking through their entire team. Let someone else initiate, or peel for your team until you find the right moment to kill their carry. Or just zone them, or, well, anything but diving headlong into the enemy team thinking that you're doing your job and your team is so bad for losing every teamfight.
like i said above, how often in solo queue do you get another hero capable of initiation on your team? that's right, never. and if you get initiated on you usually get wrecked (typical solo queue problems)
On April 02 2013 08:52 wei2coolman wrote:
Your bear cooldown is less than enemy team's peel. If you want to initiate, pop bear form. Watch entire enemy team blow every single cd trying to run away. If they split off, chase down 1 person stragler, if they run away together, run back to your team, rinse repeat til you catch someone.
what do you do if they just poke you to half hp while running away though
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EPT
