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Hi everyone, my first post here. I want to tell you guys how I play Udyr.
I started playing it after I saw Inept do really well with it on TreeEskimo's stream. link
The idea is to go full AD tiger and dominate the early game.
Masteries:
15/0/15
The key is +3AD in offense, mana regen, buff duration and movespeed in utility.
Archaic knowledge is not really necessary on Udyr imo.
Runes:
Flat AD marks and quints
Flat Armor seals
Flat MR glyphs
AD runes are absolutely amazing on him simply because of the 1.7 multiplier on tiger stance.
Items:
Wriggles
Boots of swiftness
Brutalizer (Ghostblade)
(Triforce)
Tank items of choice
Explanation:
With this setup you start with 74 AD, which translates to 125+30 tiger proc. This is probably the highest lvl1 nuke in the game.
This makes you BLAZE through the jungle creeps. You finish your whole jungle in one go. Start blue, clear the small camps, smite will be up again for red, and small golems give you your lvl4. With careful use of turtle i usually end up with about 70% hp and 50 mana.
At this point you can just proceed to gank mid or bot without going back to heal. By the time you get into position your blue buff should regen you enough mana for 3 stance activations. The cool trick is to activate tiger in brush, go in with ghost, get the proc off, then stun with bear and switch to tiger again for another proc.
Your early and mid game damage will be amazing with this build. I've once tower dived a full hp soraka at lvl5, got the kill and got out  The effectiveness of the build starts to diminish towards the late game because you will die easily to focus fire, so tank items take priority there (Randuins, Banshees, FoN).
I'm still experimenting with the items. I've had games where I'd start 5-0 with ghostblade and triforce and then go 7-5 later because i had no survivability, so I'm thinking that upgrade to ghostblade and triforce are rather situational and can be replaced with tank stuff.
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ghostblade and tri force seems like a ton of damage before survivability.. especially since your doing so much damage already.. I think choose one and then get survivability. I've been doing fine with pretty much just a sheen for damage.
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The conventional wisdom of "one offense item, then tank" on udyr makes sense, but recently I tried bilgewater cutlass as that one item.
It is *fantastic*.
It combos beautifully with his stun, helps slow people for your teammates, adds damage and lifesteal, and is super-cheap so you can start tanking out ASAP. I can't really see going back to triforce/madred's/ghostblade/whatever.
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I can't see it as being a bad item, but you have wriggles for lifesteal anyway. Seems like wits end or if you can afford it triforce are just so beastly. The slow is nice but a phage or redbuff fills that hole pretty well anyway.
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Wit's end/sheen are entirely superior options. Many fights you're going to get 1-2 hits before needing to get the fuck out due to the fact that your early game makes people scared as fuck of you. Burst with sheen and mres + additional bear hits after your tiger proc before you leave are worth more than a 400 range slow.
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On May 15 2011 03:19 Slayer91 wrote:
I can't see it as being a bad item, but you have wriggles for lifesteal anyway. Seems like wits end or if you can afford it triforce are just so beastly. The slow is nice but a phage or redbuff fills that hole pretty well anyway.
They serve different purposes though. Bilgewater is ranged and can help you get in range for that first stun, at which point red keeps them slowed.
Though I've never tested bilge for Udyr so I cannot speak for its overall effectiveness.
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His Q is so fucking strong. Why is he not popular/ why do I still see phoenix udyrs on streams sometimes.
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On May 15 2011 06:45 R04R wrote:
His Q is so fucking strong. Why is he not popular/ why do I still see phoenix udyrs on streams sometimes.
You answered your own question.
I do know that it is a ranged slow but 400 range isn't that much longer than melee bear stance usually functions well as a gap closer but you can't stay in bear stance and the stun only works once, so after you land the stun is generally when you want the slow anyway. As the guy said, combo it after you stun with bear stance. Considering its a total dead end item as well since you never ever want gunblade I'd say going for trinity is much better if you want a slow. It gives way more damage and movement speed and its a more consistent slow.
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On May 15 2011 07:48 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 06:45 R04R wrote:
His Q is so fucking strong. Why is he not popular/ why do I still see phoenix udyrs on streams sometimes. You answered your own question. I do know that it is a ranged slow but 400 range isn't that much longer than melee bear stance usually functions well as a gap closer but you can't stay in bear stance and the stun only works once, so after you land the stun is generally when you want the slow anyway. As the guy said, combo it after you stun with bear stance. Considering its a total dead end item as well since you never ever want gunblade I'd say going for trinity is much better if you want a slow. It gives way more damage and movement speed and its a more consistent slow.
I just played an udyr game with some other TLers, bilgewater was fine, though like you said the 400 range really wasnt much for catching like I was suggesting before
HOWEVER
i did upgrade to gunblade:D and rocked with it. huehuehue
also, you say he answered his own question, yet phoenix isn't his Q, tiger is his Q
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His Q is strong, but people still go pheonix, and for the most part, people assume than tiger udyr is some kind of troll or something.
Yeah I don't think its a BAD item per say I think its sub optimal. If you want the damage wits end gives you tons more damage. Don't know why you'd stack more lifesteal. The slow isn't all that amazing for a 1-time use to justify a like 2k item. If you're going to spend 4k on offense a all everything is going to be worse than trinity force.
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On May 15 2011 08:16 Slayer91 wrote:
His Q is strong, but people still go pheonix, and for the most part, people assume than tiger udyr is some kind of troll or something.
Yeah I don't think its a BAD item per say I think its sub optimal. If you want the damage wits end gives you tons more damage. Don't know why you'd stack more lifesteal. The slow isn't all that amazing for a 1-time use to justify a like 2k item. If you're going to spend 4k on offense a all everything is going to be worse than trinity force.
I agree with most of that except for your opinion of lifesteal. More lifesteal means deceptively higher EHP while you're beating on someone. It also means you can jump out of a fight and regen to full on creeps much faster, sometimes in time to rejoin the fight.
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On udyr, I find that burst is your main enemy, with turtle stance spamming and wriggles itself you can tank small amounts of damage like nothing.
Earlier I got a few kills early and had like wriggles/wits end/mercs and ghosted into a teamfight and it was like my team was dead and I finished off a kassadin then killed caitlyn, amumu came back from finishing the last guy and then I made him flash over a wall then I killed soraka. You just don't stop with udyr when there isn't burst. That's why I feel like you should be spamming resists and make sure you already have turtle going into a teamfight, and don't overextend. The best way to increase your EHP with a reasonably safe style (you can't tank a whole team, but you can easily tank a support+tank+a carry or something if you're hitting on the carry and killing him fast) you just stack resists with turtle spam and wriggles lifesteal.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that lifesteal is good but it doesn't fix your problems, which is kiting (you can't hit people) and burst. I prefer to soak a lot of damage with high resists and turtle going into the teamfight and then you're in a much better position to either retreat and hope your team gained lots of time and go back in when it's safe or just go on rampaging like a boss if they try to go for your squishies.
Don't think an extra bit of lifesteal is bad and it definitely might be good vs certain teamcomps but since more damage increases your lifesteal once you already have some anyway it's not quite as good. Lifesteal is also partially to increase your sustain while jungling.
Back on to the point about Udyr's viability I generally find that if you do well, without sacrificing much farm you can easily go like 10-0 and just kill everyone while tanking like a boss, but even if you have a bad start and go 1/5 some conservative play lets you still do well in teamfights if your team is still doing ok, since you will always do well if you aren't getting attacked by many people.
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tiger udyr is so stupid right now. don't know why people don't play him more.
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United States37500 Posts
On May 15 2011 11:42 redtooth wrote:
tiger udyr is so stupid right now. don't know why people don't play him more.
He's fine in solo q but he gets kited so hard late game, it's silly. Lacks a "jump" move that most top brusiers have. Bear stance isn't enough.
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I stopped playing Udyr once I got Trundle. Still does tons of damage with great survivability, but he's significantly less useless against teams with kiting ability.
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On May 15 2011 13:26 crate wrote:
I stopped playing Udyr once I got Trundle. Still does tons of damage with great survivability, but he's significantly less useless against teams with kiting ability.
^ Yeah, also stopped playing Udyr for much the same reasons. Even bought the AS seals and glyphs just for Udyr, but became frustrated when my team couldn't initiate and expected me to do it because I was 'tanky'. Regardless of how fed I could get through ganks, enemy Anivias always ended up rendering me mostly useless in teamfights.
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Getting attack speed glyphs and seals is extremely stupid. You need to get armour and mres/lvl so that you have as high resists as possible so you don't die trying to get into a teamfight. Maybe you're not a great initiator but you can still pull it off but you might need to run away for a bit after your carries run in.
In arranged obviously you need to combine him with a strong initiation. I don't think bear stance is bad but I think you can't play him like an irelia since you're a jungler and don't have that much farm or the hard gapcloser. Trundle has a ranged slow so he assists initiates. He's probably not unviable but you'd have to like 4th/5th pick him OR have a team that works with him in teamfights. I'm not sure though. Seems like as long as you have some initiation that lets your carries get in range before you rambo in it shouldn't be that big of a problem.
I still like trundle but he doesn't have the power to just demolish a team that can't stop an udyr from just running in and wrecking havoc to everybody. He's more of a champ that has more team utility with E and R and a good escape with W as well as a good anti kiting W and a spammable Q that gives him good damage output and tanky enough that a ranged carry can't really fight him straight up. Gives him a lot of depth. As Udyr you just have to run around and stun some fools before wrecking shop. A lot easier to straight up counter so you need to play conservatively at the start of teamfights and try to avoid the AoE fest. You can easily protect your carries earlier on vs some kind of assassin. (irelia doesn't count since she doesn't like to take damage or crowd control  )
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The main difference I see in Trundle versus Udyr is the existence of hard CC.
They seem to me to be equally good picks in many situations and both scale very well towards endgame with only a Triforce.
It honestly depends on what you're going to be facing for you to decide which champ will be better for your team. One doesn't get kited but has no real cc (unless you count wall-locking with Trundlepudding) and the other has decent cc but can get kited to hell.
For example:
Do they have a Kat/Malz? Udyr.
Do they have Teemo/Ashe? Trundle.
EDIT: Awaiting instructions! For vengeance!
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Yay Udyr buff! Most definitely my favorite champion at the moment.
Wondering what people think of phoenix. I tried it versus the AI and didn't care for it, but I feel like that's mainly due to the fact that I've gotten used to Tiger. The lowered mana costs are the best part though. I rarely run out of mana now Been having problems with people kiting me, but Udyr has always had that problem so
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On June 23 2011 15:07 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Yay Udyr buff! Most definitely my favorite champion at the moment. Wondering what people think of phoenix. I tried it versus the AI and didn't care for it, but I feel like that's mainly due to the fact that I've gotten used to Tiger. The lowered mana costs are the best part though. I rarely run out of mana now Been having problems with people kiting me, but Udyr has always had that problem so
It still sucks. Phoenix is great for jungling, but does no damage in fights. Tiger is just as fast jungling and does crazy damage at lvl 5.
Udyr will still be a sub-par champ simply because he has no gap closer other than the speed boost from antelope bear.
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EPT
