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as lots of people before, my core is boots 3pots -> hog -> merc -> wits end
I would take hog over philo anytime as a first item, the extra hp gives you alot more margin to do some cool stuff and makes an early oracles alot safer.
philo is really if you want the shurelias imo, none of the stats are really good exept during that 2-3 minutes akward period after your blue buff runs out but you phownix stance is not hight level enought to instant clear everything.
when you have blue, or have mana to spare, don't forget to activate turtle shield as you run to the camp, the shield lasts long enought to tank the first hits and it doesn't delay your phoenix dps, doing this makes you hight hp all the time in jungle without the philostone.
tipically after the witsend i finish randuins and get phage (not always in that order) and then build even more tank acordingly to the other team, if i'm stupidly fed or the game is long enought to last for a full item build i will make the phage into triforce.
A tip for ganking is to remember to activate the bear stance as late as possible so you have the speed boost when the opponent reacts, if you're ganking a lane that's not warded (top at 4 minutes typically) you run towards them but activate the bear stance just has you enter their vision range. Use your champion's vision to your advantage, if no enemy are in your vision circle, you aren't in the enemy's vision either!
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On April 04 2012 00:10 Slayer91 wrote:
Wit's fast is honestly not that important at all in my opinion. Level 9 pheonix stance is insane, you don't need the scaling but being low hp so you can't use the AS is something that's more likely to happen. If you guys aren't getting trinity, how do you guys think you need wits end at level 9 but no more damage at level 18?
If I'm having a bad game I'll get some of aegis or whatever before building wits, but Udyr is so strong midgame anyway that I feel like in most games you can get away with picking up wits after mercs and hog, especially since it's not a purely offensive item anyway. Also helps a lot with farming speed. It's rare that I feel that I'm not tanky enough with mercs, hog and wits end finished.
Out of curiosity, when do you normally buy wits?
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Philo-->hog-->mercs or recurve-->wits end after mercs usually.
Never feel like I need an aegis because I'm not tanky enough early game.
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Lately I've been skipping HoG and just getting a phage for HP and going for a glacial shroud instead of a warden's mail if I get a good gank or two and feel I'm ahead. Opinions?
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I hate the idea of phage/FM on Udyr. He doesnt need phage procs, he doesnt need attack damage (assuming phoenix) and randi's is just such a nice fit.
If you are ahead on udyr, just rush your wits & randi's faster, hit that "oh look im udyr you cant kill me have fun dying to a manbearphoenixtigerturtle" point faster. Or shurelia's if you like going Teut's philo.
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I do go philo yes. I thought I could get a triforce later from that phage if the game goes long enough. I just really like frozen heart I guess, and I think even teut said that frozen is better than randuin's for udyr but the HoG makes randuin's easier to get or something. I figured when I'm ahead already I can do without the gp10 and get that glacial instead.
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Phage seems interesting if you're going for triforce. A triforce/frozen heart build seems like a good idea if you're quite fed. I'd probably skip wits and go straight triforce/frozen though in that case.
I had a interesting game with a particularly militant top lane warwick where their jungler with warlock90's jungle kayle who b asically tries to dive top all day and neither top laner warded so I barely squeezed time to get camps and one kill bot and mid lane the rest of the time top lane was dead/crying for gank/crying for countergank and I went back with baron buff for the first time with mercs/hog/philo and 5k gold XD. I just bought a triforce straight up then. (game was over in like 2 minutes after that though, we bot lane pretty hard)
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Skipping wits end isn't that bad an option, what wits end is is really strong sustained damage and some nice MR but a triforce is basically all that but with chasing power for a lot more gold, if you're going a fast triforce your killing power and mobility is up a lot and your survivability is down, but if you're fed hopefully that's only about on par to a standard game.
The issue is, recurve for 1k and wits for another 1k is fantastic value while triforce isn't super good until you complete the 300 gold piece thing because only 15% attack speed isn't that amazing.
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IMO once you get wriggles/wits/mercs/randuins you can build pretty much anything on Udyr and it works.
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That's a pretty worthless statement you can say that same thing after you get deathcap in any AP and you shouldn't be getting wriggles on jungle udyr.
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so today I playing udyr I got really ahead and after randuin's, wits, shurelia & aegis I was like hmm what cheap damage item can I get? ( I had like 2.4k gold) didn't really feel like buying an atma so I just went ahead and bought a rageblade. Next few minutes were one of the most fun times I had playing udyr haha.
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I played a couple games as Tiger Jungle, kind of enjoyed it. A lot slower clear, sure, but you can steal things so fast and your ganks are pretty fucking brutal. I might play it more if we need a damage gank jungler over a farm jungle.
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On April 12 2012 01:35 Requizen wrote:
I played a couple games as Tiger Jungle, kind of enjoyed it. A lot slower clear, sure, but you can steal things so fast and your ganks are pretty fucking brutal. I might play it more if we need a damage gank jungler over a farm jungle.
i'll have to check the numbers, but i'm pretty sure that phoenix does just as much damage as tiger if you can get the third hit proc off.
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On April 12 2012 03:29 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 01:35 Requizen wrote:
I played a couple games as Tiger Jungle, kind of enjoyed it. A lot slower clear, sure, but you can steal things so fast and your ganks are pretty fucking brutal. I might play it more if we need a damage gank jungler over a farm jungle. i'll have to check the numbers, but i'm pretty sure that phoenix does just as much damage as tiger if you can get the third hit proc off.
Oh, I know you're right. I've seen the math, and they're about the same (roughly), but Tiger definitely has the burst, I think. Especially against laners who can kite you and make sure you never get the full Phoenix proc, running out and Bear-Tiger annihilating them is pretty nice.
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i've been thinking about that, and while the math is probably right, i would think that by tiger > bear > tiger you could probably get 2 tiger procs off in the same amount of time as 3 phoenix autos which would put tiger back way ahead in damage
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You can tiger before bear and use the tiger stance proc in bearstance, then switch to tiger and apply 2nd dot for maximum burst.
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yeah that's what i was saying and why im not sure the 3 auto phoenix = tiger dps thing is correct in an actual game situation
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But since its not guaranteed you're better off taking tiger when laning and phoenix for jungling. Only problem I think is figuring out which spell to not max out.
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On March 24 2012 02:23 Slayer91 wrote:
Here's the issue:
Level 9 you have 5 in turtle, 3 in tiger, 1 in bear.
Level 14 you have 5 in turtle, 5 in pheonix 3 in tiger, 1 in bear OR 5 turtle, 5 tiger, 3 bear.
The thing is you have more movement speed and duarion on bear, and higher damage. Tiger stance is actually better in teamfights than pheonix stance. Pheonix stance relies on staying on targets for a long time but not really doing any more damage. Tiger only needs 1 hit to guarantee more damage than the total pheonix AoE, and the attack speed steriod is similar to the AD steriod on pheonix.
The optimal 1v1 on udyr comes from 5 tiger, 5 turtle, 3 bear, 5 pheonix with
W-->run in with E-->stun-->Q-->R 3 hits-->W-->E-->Q-->R 3 hits repeat. However most of the time it's better to get 5 in bear because you there won't be any sitting duck targets that make it worth maxing pheonix anyway.
CDR is also more effective on tiger udyr because you can't stack the AoE on pheonix and it does less damage and the AD/AP bonus is always up, but the tiger DoT is pretty huge and reducing the CD on it is great.
Wit's end is good for pushing towers but honestly if you want better pushing tower just go and bash some fools face in bottom lane and get your jungler (all junglers are AoE these days) to go top for a while. People with play ganky mids or tops let me do this on udyr jungle and I get super farmed and have time to farm both lane and jungle and still be in position to help my team because I run so fast.
If you're getting trinity on jungle udyr and their teams not that kitey (like for example sivir is a nightmare) getting 3 in bear and then maxing tiger is a viable choice but you have to remember when you have to stop putting points into bear haha.
Update on this. 1 tiger -> max phoenix lanedyr is super legit, especially against fast pushing AP type tops. You aren't putting additional points into tiger the first five levels anyway, and being one rank down on phoenix isn't very noticeable. Started doing this against things like Rumble/Sion because its preferable to last hitting under a tower in turtle stance most of the game.
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EPT
