EPTQuite subtle, really, doesn't always work like that though. The absolute nightmare is olaf/urgot comps who just rape your entire team and even if their Cass doesn't do anything except try to damage you you're full hp when the rest of your team is dead and they just flame you for doing nothing what can you do lol.
[Champion] Udyr - Page 29
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
Quite subtle, really, doesn't always work like that though. The absolute nightmare is olaf/urgot comps who just rape your entire team and even if their Cass doesn't do anything except try to damage you you're full hp when the rest of your team is dead and they just flame you for doing nothing what can you do lol. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
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XenOmega
Canada2822 Posts
In worst case scenarios, Udyr can fill part of the role of the AD carry when yours is bad. In normal situations, he's just tanky/dps in the late game. Rush into the enemies carries and beat them down. With a good team to back him up, even if you end dying quickly when focused, you can still break their formations and allow your carries to attack freely. That's exacly what happened in the last teamfight in my game  I rush in, activate my Randuins and proceed to kill the Ashe. By the time they shifted focus on me (their team were attacking Sion that was caught by Skarner ult) ashe was dead. Sure, I died in the process, but I took down their AD carry and their team was disorganized (they also failed to kill sion because they shifted focus on me) | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:49 Haemonculus wrote: My biggest problem playing Udyr so far has been accidentally leveling up phoenix stance. I'm so used to leveling R whenever it's available that every now and then in a fight or when I'm not thinking I just spam ctrl-R as soon as I see it available. Whoops. I like taking Phoenix over Tiger in lane regardless. You get great lane control with Phoenix since you can push to their tower super fast at will and you have comparable burst with Phoenix. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On May 05 2012 10:39 Ryuu314 wrote: I like taking Phoenix over Tiger in lane regardless. You get great lane control with Phoenix since you can push to their tower super fast at will and you have comparable burst with Phoenix. The problem with phoenix is you have to get the third hit off to do serious damage. With tiger, you can hit them once and get all the damage frontloaded. The other thing is that tiger scales amazingly with AD (1.5 scaling for the initial proc). You double dip with tiger since if you choose to try and dominate lane by getting dorans blades, you're getting the 10AD and an additional 15 magic damage on your tiger activation damage. The same goes for other items that help you in lane such as a phage and wriggles. The other benefit is that trading in lane doesn't automatically push the lane. With phoenix, if you trade, you're going to push your lane and in most cases, that's inviting a gank that you may not make it out of. Tiger is superior in every way against enemy champions. Phoenix is just better against minions. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
and I would hardly call pheonix stance a "lane control" skill... | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
After getting ganked, our jungler came, failed horribly (can't wait for me to initiate, attacks while I'm stuck in their minions and GP is standing back, pushes like a madman because it's so easier to gank a level 6 GP under his turret, dives and ult immediatly (Fiora) so I end up tanking the turret instead of splitting the damage, and die) so GP was fed and my lane kinda fucked up. From what I could see, if you max Tiger you need to trade as your sustain takes a big hit, especially if you only last hit with the 6% of turtle level 1 until level 6. Hit him with tiger when they come to cs I guess, and turtle imediatly to negate their response and go back to sustaining mana, as the combo is quite expansive. Do you get a philo in lane to help mana sustain, or is it match-up dependant? I went for wriggles->wit's->HoG, but GP was fed before I even finished wriggles. For better harass before the full scale teamfights (where you just spam bear-turtle), stutter stepping to lead them and hit while they're retreating seems very important, but probably less so that if I'd gone phoenixdyr. Also, timing. They had a Katarina so hitting a stun was important, but Shunpo makes positioning between the front and our carries tricky, and the 6s cooldown gives her a window if I have to turtle right after bear. I guess I should have danced between turtle and tiger to keep my passive up, and used bear only as soon as she went in. Teamfights were horrendous unless they rushed at us, since they had GP, Ezreal and LS with triforce (team suicided on GP after he got fed, even giving him a quadra while I was away, so the others got a lot of assist gold), Katarina with rylai, and Ryze for the root (was a normal). I got kited a lot unless they believed they had an opening, or flash up to engage (which shouldn't be my job). Maybe I should have went philo in lane for health sustain, and turned it into Shurelya later to help against the kiting? Also, since they had a lot of magic damage and obviously mercs/wit's/scaling MR had its limit, esp. when I get kited and thus have 0 wit's stacks. Is FoN a good MR item on Udyr? Regen to go with his HP shield and high resists build, MS to help against his lack of gap closer, and the most MR out of any item in the game. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
Anyway tiger udyr is a lot easy to play than pheonix udyr in teamfights because you have your tiger for burst damage so you get more damage in without having to get the timing right to get 3 hits in FoN is a good item. Getting kited usually means you're going in infront of your team too much which isn't how you should play, unless half their team dives yours. Unfortunately the only kind of initiate you have is stunning the closest target and hoping he gets poked a bit and you soak the counter damage with w and whatever regen you have. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
With regards to team comp, if you can't make initiation rely on your AP carry or run Ashe as AD carry, how do you rate Udyr w/ regards to damage/tankiness? As in "you can't pick Maokai as an initiator because Udyr+Mao top+jungle is low on damage later on", for example. Most initiation junglers that I can think of lean more towards tankiness than damage (except Nocturne even if he builds tanky, Lee Sin and Shyvana). | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
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SMD
Canada627 Posts
boots 3 philo HoG boots2 (mercs or tabi) Wit's Randuin and usually go from there, In many builds i've seen they usually rush boots2 or HoG, is the philo stone setting me back?, i seem to do very well | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On May 13 2012 08:49 SMD wrote: For udyr jungle I usually build boots 3 philo HoG boots2 (mercs or tabi) Wit's Randuin and usually go from there, In many builds i've seen they usually rush boots2 or HoG, is the philo stone setting me back?, i seem to do very well What philo allows you to do is hit turtle before every camp so that you're able to kill all camps with at least 2 stacks of monkey's. It does improve your jungling speed as you can afford to bear between the camps. However, it sets you behind on an oracles and boots 2, two items that greatly improve your ganking ability. If you're spending more time passively farming the jungle, a philo is a great investment, however, if you're getting kills through ganks, getting earlier boots 2 and an oracles helps you continue the snowball instead of gimping it by getting an item which doesn't help ganks at all. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
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storkfan
493 Posts
On May 13 2012 18:08 Slayer91 wrote: Philo is almost always better than hog for the early game practically since you never see any udyrs who buy hog actually running around with full hp. I don't know how you can say "oh you hit turtle before camps so you get passive stacks". Fuck the passive stacks. You full hp it gives you more options and lets you conserve mana more. If you want fast oracles or boots 2 you can always delay hog. yea philo is really good on any mana champ, underrated on non.-supports | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On May 13 2012 19:28 storkfan wrote: yea philo is really good on any mana champ, underrated on non.-supports I'll defer to Slayer's opinion on a philo vs HoG early since I probably don't build it enough on udyr to make a truly informed opinion on it. It does help you stay in the jungle indefinitely with passive sustain instead of an active one. I've never been a fan of having it on udyr since a HoG builds into something that helps Udyr's midgame immensely (Not saying that shurelya's is bad, it's awesome to have on udyr) but I like health + armour quite a bit more than health + speed since if the big plays involve tower diving, a wardens mail is going to allow you to tank more damage than a shurelya's. | ||
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