EPT[Champion] Nasus - Page 7
| Forum Index > LoL Strategy |
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
| ||
|
Ruken
United States858 Posts
On March 27 2011 21:10 freelander wrote: you cant beat malzahar. switch lanes with a ranged character. I always found it a draw and the best either of you can do is push the lane as hard as you can. If you don't have mana regen up the butt you lose. Of course if you DON'T have mana regen up the butt to cast spirit fire then you'll just have to be content farming at the tower, but why do that when you can get as much CS as him? | ||
|
myopia
United States2928 Posts
| ||
|
Ruken
United States858 Posts
I find I need to keep two rune pages for nasus depending on who you're soloing against. Sometimes you need insane mana regen so you don't lose all your CS to tower and sometimes you need insane tankyness so you don't get owned by say...a leblanc. | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On April 19 2011 12:18 Ruken wrote: I always found it a draw and the best either of you can do is push the lane as hard as you can. If you don't have mana regen up the butt you lose. Of course if you DON'T have mana regen up the butt to cast spirit fire then you'll just have to be content farming at the tower, but why do that when you can get as much CS as him? I don't see Nasus having a big problem with malz, even in mid lane. The thing about malz is that most of his abilities can be dodged. Null zone, malefic on creeps, and wall. Only his ultimate burst and his malefic harass should be a problem. If he tries to harass a lot with malefic I don't think its enough to do too much if you lifesteal off creeps and open hp regen+1 pot or dshield. Malz is strongest against squishies with poor pushing power, i.e that he can easily zone at level 6 and push the wave and either back for free or go to gank if he's already done that. Nasus has solid pushing power with just auto+Q. Also, in solo top, spamming Q on creeps to push is just so risky for a jungle gank. Malz has 0 escape skills so he's basically screwed without both ghost and flash and probably even with that if its a strong jungler, because of Nasus W-->redbuff slow. I wouldn't use spirit fire at all. I actually think if he pushes a lot (wait for him to Q a creep) you can just go whither him and Q+ a few auto hits and take like 1/3 or 1/2 his hp from lvl 2, and if you get low because of visions spam and auto hits you can use your pot and wait for regen+life steal and then do it again, then tp back with a philo stone and zone him from lane or force a back. The only thing you might want to do is get a null magic and boots on a second back when he backs in case the level 6+ burst is strong. The only thing I'm worried about is Q spam+auto hit spam but I don't think its that strong because you can just W him under creep aggro and go hit him. I'm about the same elo as you ruken, I mostly played Nasus/Udyr/Support in solo ranked but I've only got 100 games or so with him in solo ranked. So my experience is a little bit less. Really miss randuins omen. Having that free whither on any ranged carry who focused you was amazing, and the active as well was sick. It also helped your regeneration, as when you got warmogs and FoN as well you had insane regeneration and the only thing that could beef it up more would be someone with starks. (also doubling your passive, holy shit unkillable much?) Right now my runes (doubling as an tiger udyr jungle page since I use 1 for AP and another for support) is like: Reds = AD Quints = Arpen Yellow = Armour Blues = 5 mr/lv, 4 CDR/lvl to get 4% to buff me up to 40% if I get bluepot, 6% from masteries and 20% from items. (Used to be randuins+cdr boots, now frozen heart) If I was doing a nasus only page I'd have arpen reds, and switch quints between move speed, health, and arpen, depending on the lane. I'm playing around with philo stone. In a hard lane, it boosts your hp regen and mana regen a lot, and also giving you gold/5. 22.5 hp/regen is almost as much as old randuins and it isn't that bad later on by the time you get really tanky but you don't have enough for your last couple items. It also fills the gold item vacuum once filled by HoG. Back to mercs 100%. I guess if they have like 0 CC getting CDR boots and just skipping frozen heart and only havign a chain mail works. So my build is looking like: (philo stone), Mercs, Aegis-->Sheen-->Trinity Force-->Tank Final item build looking something like Mercs/Trinity Force/Warmogs/Frozen Heart/FoN/X X being like Last whisper/Thornmail/QSS/Randuins/Starks/Atmas/IE whatever you think is best. I've been getting sheen later and later. I find the DPS increase is actually very small over a lane. You only really need it when you "wake up" and stop farming and start running around killing everyone. If I'm starting cloth + 5 I basically can finish and aegis getting a ton of tankiness and the 8 AD as well. You basically win a lane as Nasus when you can just almost totally ignore them unless they commit and Q creeps all day and get all the cs. You just need to be tanky for this I find generally if you have to fight back it actually means you're losing a lot in the lane, even if you're actually close to killing him. I'm not totally sold on the frozen heart, but CDR is such a great stat and you need to get armour from somewhere. I kinda feel like a negatron/chain mail/giants belt before finishing any items though, because you need to get tanky fast and stuff like warmogs/fon/frozen heart has a lot of stats that you are paying for but don't use until you can't be bursted down. (Mana/regen/movement speed). Hard lanes: (I play on EU, so basically only ever see tanks and tanky dps up top. I don't see any problem with APs though, its just a matter of having enough pots/hp/mres that they can't burst you down with their mana, after like lvl 7 its just Q creeps all day, except maybe ryze I guess. I'm not sure about ADs, think teemo might beat you if you don't shut him down early, most others are just farming lanes) Shen: You have to fight back and sometimes will just get zoned, you're going to struggle to the herp derp Q and auto hits when he feels like spam. Once you get like level 7 and aegis you're free farm though. Renekton: Used to zone you hard, so you just sit at tower since he has to push if he wants to pressure you at all. Still probably heals enough that you can't try to out harass him since he always has more creeps. Jungle ganks are such a big threat that as long as you keep forcing him to heal on a whole wave he can't pressure you too far. Teemo: As said earlier, unchaseable without whither, and has blind and move quick every time you cast it, only way to win is to just be so much stronger 1v1 and keep bush zoning/whither-->owning him but I'm not sure this works. Irelia: You have to pressure her early while her heal sucks compared to hers. There's a level range around 4-8 where she is a huge threat to you and you aren't tanky enough, and want to harass her off creeps, and if she gets wits end you pretty much have to swap lanes no matter what. Very winnable if you are better though. Jarvan: Way stronger than you until like 7, but he can't harass that much due to mana constrictions. All depends how agressive he is and if you're able to punish it Easy lanes: In all cases you mostly just free farm. Singed: Farm and don't stand in the purple stuff. He can try to fling spam you but if you don't let him piss you off he can't do anything. Biggest problem is last hitting waves pushed to tower. Malphite: Get 5 potions at the stand and try to keep his shield down if he ever tries to do more than go oom while you heal on creeps. Chogath: Biggest threat is losing cs to tower, unless he tries to be really agressive with vorpal spikes auto attacks but you just need to be careful, if cho loses cs he can be zoned out of lane because he doesn't have enough hp. Unsure: Mundo/Morde/APs/ADs Also, I basically never use spirit fire in lane. It's much easier to last hit under tower when most of the creeps are full health anyway, and having the less CD on Q helps this, while you need to get like fast level 3 on E to 1 shot fully pushed waves, burning like 1/4 of your mana and not getting any Q farm. I save mana to whither them if they try to do some kind of harassment that leaves them vulnerable. I get like 3 points in Q and then I'm never sure where to put the points. If its like jarvan you get maxed E so it's the watchmen prison scene when he locks you in with him with ult, and you hit E and R. I imagine hp regen pendant+1 pot -->philo stone-->boots 1-->null magic-->ruby-->aegis is great against APs. Against AD based cloth+5 is still great, perhaps dshield if they can't harass you early but can later. I used to run ghost/TP but am thinking about Cleanse/TP or Ghost/cleanse. I've given up on exhaust, since mostly you are more than fast enough with imba 325 base movement speed+quickness+TF and later force of nature, and have whither anyway. It's usually CC like morg lux that they spam on you that gives you problems. TP is essential in a hard lane and helps you backdoor towers like a beast//farm lanes like a beast and TP to help your team. But in an easy lane but they have a kiting team ghost/cleanse might be good. Thinking about taking defensive 0/21/9 but it seems like you only gain 48 hp and 4% less damage taken and you're giving up 6% cdr, -25% summoners, 3 mp5 and 3% move speed. If you really need hp I'd probably get dshield and hp quints that puts you up to like 700 from 500 at level 1 anyway. BTW This guide is really outdated. It says mid>bot>top and most of the time you shouldn't be playing nasus if you aren't getting top. I did a lot of jungle nasus but I'll need to reevaluate it. I think it was like the second choice if you didn't get top and it's not as bad as people think. Bot lane should probably only be done with someone like taric with ridiculous synergy. (2 beefy melee, 1 stun, 1 slow, 2x armour reductions,(EW) 2x nukes (QW) wtfff). Mid is never ideal unless it's vs an AP who doesn't have a lot of pushing power but can't kill you. Any AD can harass you to death in a short lane, and you have to do so much running around in mid lane that you lose so much farm. Remember roughly that 1 cs with Q = 2 cs without. So if you're pushing with spirit fire you lose a lot of virtual farm. It's a rough approximation because normally you build damage with Q and tank with gold but if you could somehow convert a Q into gold and built it into AD this would be about correct. 3 AD on your Q for about 20 gold vs 1 ad for about 40 gold on all your attacks. Spirit fire is easily Nasus' worst ability. He'd be totally unviable without his Q, W and R, but E just helps and is only really strong if you have something to lock someone down like malz/ww/jarvan ult or similar. It's a help when you W someone and get that armour reduction, and great in lvl 1 fights but its not your bread and butter. Jungle Trolling purposes only. He can't clear creeps quickly until lvl 5 and has a weak gank. I can write a jungle nasus guide later, but I need to retest it after being competent with higher tier junglers. The Q farming is slowed but you can get about 200-250 by around 25 minute and 300-35 around 35. It's not amazing but its similar to a hard lane solo top, and it's hard to compete with a solo lane anyway. You have to start stone golems-->wraiths-->wolves-->blue to allow you to get 24-30 points on siphon strike starting from level 1. It also gives you a weirdly timed level 3 gank if you take W after wolves and then do blue. Normally you take a second point in E and then max Q with 1 point in W after level 4. Your gank isn't the strongest but its a very good support gank (like nunu but the slow isn't spammable), in that if you gank top or bottom with someone like say irelia or mf the slow and armour reduction helps them rape the other guy ridiculously fast and you still get your Q and your redbuff slow but you can't solo gank like the other junglers can. Your dragon control is good with ultimate up and red and blue buffs are really good on Nasus. Your jungle clear speed is fast starting from level 2 because E+Q = win. Most important thing is to maximize your Q farm while keeping up with clear speed and ganks. Also, the guide says aegis isn't worth it. Aegis is the best item per cost in the game period, and Nasus is a fantastic carrier of it. Get it basically every game unless a support wants to get it. Thoughts/Contributions? | ||
|
freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
I answered the queston "how do you beat Malzahar" with "you cant beat Malzahar" I didnt say you lose to him, its kinda a draw | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
"Switch lanes" usually implies desperate circumstances, like someone coming to lane vs you with wits end. | ||
|
Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
| ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
 I'm working on it, haha. I'm only really running AD because of my Udyr right now. It's definitely not optimal at all. I feel so weak having only 500 health at level 1, and having Arpen quints or movement speed might be something to play around with as well. I did some analysis on Randuins vs Frozen heart. They have the same gold cost now, if we say that the mana doesn't matter. (and otherwise frozen heart wins, sometimes it matters in long teamfights though) The extra CDR and armour is worth more than the hp+ hp regen, but the randuins passive+active is significantly better if you assume the ranged carry/other physicals really hate you. (They usually do, its the biggest thing that kills you, AP damage from the AP carry with void staff can be a big threat as well of course). I think it comes down to: If you don't need mercs, get CDR boots+Randuins with a fast HoG. If you need mercs, get frozen heart for sure. The glacial shroud is the most important part if you want some armour and CDR before trinity. Phage zeal and sheen are all so good on him though, I'd probably just get a chain mail. Items are starting to get very limited in my mind. Early game: Philo stone/HoG if necessary, otherwise mercs/aegis/sheen. Magic resist: Mercs, negatron, force of nature Armour: Frozen heart, randuins. Thornmail when appropriately tanky and vs farmed auto attacker. Health: Warmogs, maybe sunfire but I don't like it. Damage: Trinity, Last whisper Aegis for all 3, of course. I really don't like banshee/Guardian angel. They are fantastic on carries because with guardian angel, the death timer is like a free zonyas and 750 health on an item that gives armour/mres is insane, and carries can do a lot with just 750 health. On nasus if you get caught and they can focus you for free then having a nasus with 750 health isn't all that useful anyway. Banshees is similar, not only on your itemizing for MORE mana (300 from trinity, high base level up stats, 500 from frozen heart), but the spell sheild is mostly just good for carries so you can't get that key CC spell on him. It's so easy to knock it off a nasus anyway. I'd just get a negatron+Giants belt and build Warmogs and then get your FoN. You can have a negatron and the components of warmogs ready for the price of a banshee veil. Instinct tells me sunfire is bad. I'm not sure about this though. | ||
|
Htiger
United States13 Posts
Marks: 15 Armor Pen Quints: 10 Armor Pen SpFire: 40 Armor Pen At 65 Armor Pen, you're reducing the armor of most carries, supports, and mages to next to nothing already. Reducing the leftover armor by 40% isn't usually that meaningful. It still means a lot to tanks, but why would you be targetting tanks as Nasus? With a ghostblade, you're gettin CDR, some crit, and a nice active to help you tear apart those carries / supports. | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
When you're really farmed as nasus people basically just stay away from you and its very hard to catch up and you can waste your whither just to gap close and you can spend most of a teamfight just chasing down one person. This is not an effective way to pull your weight in a teamfight. Ghostblade gives pretty average stats aside from the cdr and armpen, and you should already have 40% cdr at this point. The 20% movement speed active is nice but you are already pretty fast so you have to worry about diminishng returns. I'm not saying its terrible, but when theres 2, possibly 3 (jungler, tank, ryze, even some supports can get a lot of armour, not that you should EVER chase a support as nasus) very tanky people you get last whisper, and when there isn't, I guess ghostblade can work but its really not much better than shurelyas. But I'll have to test it more. Crit is deceptively bad on nasus, because you see huge numbers on your Q crits but in reality the bonus damage from CS doesn't crit, the reason the crits are so big is because Q does so much damage in the first place. Most comps that get raped by nasus involve a lot of melees especially ones like yi and panth who aren't that tanky, add a LW and the list expands to everyone that doesn't have a long range. When you have LW you can rape a tank and then switch to a ranged carry who gets in range. | ||
|
Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
2. wtf, how are you maxing your CDR without ghostblade? Oh that's right, you neglect Merc Treads on a Melee character with no gap closer. Real build. Wait, that still won't get you max CDR unless you, oh that's right, you also spec CDR blues over MRes and advocate blue pot. Did I mention real build? If not. Real. Build. | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
It's slightly worse than just as good as any other champ because you don't have as much active damage time as some other tanky dps and you do most of your damage with Q. | ||
|
Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 22 2011 01:42 Slayer91 wrote: Yeah right now its looking like frozen heart+blue pot+4 cdr blues+6% masteries. Hopefully you can convince a support into getting soul shroud if you're getting aegis now. Bluepot is only good for CDR which sucks. It's slightly worse than just as good as any other champ because you don't have as much active damage time as some other tanky dps and you do most of your damage with Q. how about this... how about we don't waste any money on blue pots nor any space on CDR runes and instead we get ghostblade because it's just a really good item anyway and synergizes with your kit. how about that? what? Other than people with steroids stronger than your ult (read: very very few and basically none of the "tanky dps/bruiser/whateverpeoplecallthemthesedays"), no one really gets more from crit than you. crit synergizes with the extra damage from your ult and it's not like you spend more time than most doing things other than attacking (2 spells with fairly long CDs and fairly long cast animation). Not to mention you get some hidden attack speed buffs from using your Q right after attacking since it resets your auto-attack timer. | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Kinda feel like investing 2687 after already spending 4k on trinity is a lot before you get lots of tank items. It always seems like I'm doing most of my damage from my Q, but if its with ulti up vs someone like vlad where I'm leeching 150 AD it could just be me not paying attention, I have to get LoL replay and look at some of my games once I get back to my good PC. You have a very good point on bluepot since its 250 for 10% cdr and the CDR portion of kindlegem costs only 375g. Always good to get insight from someone who isn't awful at this game, lol. Don't know why I didn't think about that before. I also felt bad losing magic resist for the 4 CDR/lvl runes. Although I didn't miss merc threads except against like lux or morgana. I still get so much power from last whisper, but have enough trouble fitting it as last item as I need to sell aegis, I'd much prefer to have soul shroud on X and last whisper than getting ghostblade and being a lot weaker against tanks, but then again If I use spirit fire properly maybe it doesn't make a huge difference once I get the arpen reds with the quints and the ghostblade pen on top of spirit fire. | ||
|
Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
| ||
|
Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
trinity + merc treads then fill in defense for mid game with 3 items then finish end-game rounding out your build | ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On April 22 2011 02:54 Brees wrote: ghostblade on nasus is boss....as a 6th item trinity + merc treads then fill in defense for mid game with 3 items then finish end-game rounding out your build This. Nasus build = Trundle build (- Wriggle's) = Irelia build = a lot of friggin builds. | ||
|
Htiger
United States13 Posts
As he mentioned, crit is just as good, if not better, on Nasus as every other character in the game. The reason, in my opinion, that it is much better on Nasus than others is his ability to cause burst damage. Just like in WoW arenas, burst damage wins games. | ||
|
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
| ||
| ||
