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Nasus, the Curator of the Sands
Everyone's favorite hard hitting, hard farming, hard pushing, super tank, melee DPS carry dog.
NOTE: Spoilered old OP is very out of date and I'm not in a position to fix it right now. Just check the latest discussion in thread, or better yet ask BroCicero #1 LoL player how he runs the dawg.
+ Show Spoiler +My guide. Summoner Spells: Cleanse / Ghost These spells, in conjunction with your naturally high movespeed, make you ungankable early game and inescapable late game. You take cleanse over flash because, while you're trampling the enemy team under your ult, you're bound to take a lot of CC. Consider teleport if you know you'll be solo top, have your team keep dragon warded so you can show up for the party at any time. Masteries: 0/9/21Easy choices, utility tree and SoS are broken and I don't like Dodge. RunesQuints: Movespeed Red: Armor Pen Yellow: MP5plvl Blue: MP5plvl Siphoning Strike is physical and your main damage dealer, hence the arpen. Spirit Fire eats a ton of mana, hence the full mp5 sections. Movespeed quints make for an even faster Nasus. sidenote: profile stalking reveals LoCicero runs flat armor yellows and quints. The armor will make him significantly tougher in early laning - Nasus' weakest point. I'm considering changing my runes along these lines myself. More on this later.Skill Order: QEEWER / R>E>Q>W There's a bit of flexibility here. E wrecks lanes, but you don't want to push hard until you get your first 3 items. Avoid using Spirit Fire at all until it's at least lvl 3 - it eats a ton of mana and doesn't do a whole lot until then. Use your head, if you don't think you'll need a 4th or 5th level of SF soon, get a 2nd or 3rd point for Siphoning Strike to maximize your farming fun. SS is very low cooldown, undodgeable, procs Sheen/Triforce, works on towers, and refreshes your autoattack. Note that Triforce's 150% bonus doesn't include the +2 per last hit, that's added in after. You still do insane damage, just not INSANE damage. Wither is a one point wonder and the best slow in the game. Your ult lets you 1v5 teams or take a fast Baron. The HP boost makes it a handy early escape mechanism or turnaround gank bait. Fury of the Sand's tooltip isn't very clear. Nasus doesn't actually drain life from enemies. He deals AOE magic damage based on 3/4/5% of enemy health, and his attack damage is increased by some amount of this. I haven't actually figured out how much bonus attack he gets. It's a lot. afaik the bonus damage works with Triforce proc. Item BuildDoran's Shield + Health Pot Heart of Gold Sheen Merc Treads Randuins/Banshees/Triforce in some order as dictated by the game. You usually want pure tank outside of Triforce. Nasus can be built DPS but it's simply an inferior setup. He can rack up the kills with nothing more than Sheen, so why not be invincible while you're at it? Randuins is unbelievably good. It builds from imba HoG. The CDR puts your Q DPS through the roof. Its active will further wreck the team you're already steamrolling with your ult. Banshees is self explanatory. Nasus has the best use for Triforce in the game. If the game is still going after you finish the big 4, other good items include FoN, Warmogs, Thornmail, Frozen Heart, Ghostblade, Last Whisper, Atmas. What I don't get: Aegis used to be here. Now I feel it's not cost effective unless your team is coordinated and starts early 5 man roaming/fighting. If you want Aegis that badly, make your Shen/Taric/Janna/Galio/Rammus/whomever spend the 1925. I play a very greedy build that Hyfe would not agree with. I've stopped buying GA since the nerf; I don't think it's worthwhile spending 2600 gold to be revived at <25% health once every five minutes. I never buy Frozen Mallet or Sunfire Cape. Frozen Mallet is expensive, you've already got 3 slows in W/Randuins/Triforce, and Nasus doesn't need that much HP. E/R/other items more than cover whatever Sunfire would give you. PlaystyleSolo mid, or duo bot if you've got a partner who doesn't need farm. Top isn't ideal imo, you're nowhere near to help with dragon (need teleport), and if you're purple team you can't grab blue buff. If you suspect your opponents of being at least semi-competent, DO NOT 1v2 AS NASUS. You will get zoned, hard. Once upon a time, I found myself consistently laning against people who did not know how to lane. This makes Nasus' life very easy. I thought my dog was a mighty laning machine. That paradigm collapsed around me when I gave up lvl 1 FB to a MF/Jax duo. With SoS, Dshield, and passive lifesteal, you come to the lane durable. Nasus' problem stems from being unable to answer most harass. I'm guessing this is where Loci's armor runes come into play. You may want a few dedicated flat armor / mres pages if you can predict who you're going up against. Basically, if Nasus can get through the first five levels without getting zoned, he's set. I don't have enough experience to comment on specific 1v1 matchups. At my ELO I win most lanes simply because my opponents are bad. Just be wary of those who can harass with impunity. Kat, Kennen, and Panth come to mind. Again, avoid using Spirit Fire early because it eats mana, pushes the lane and is ineffective for harass. Unless they get cocky, you won't be killing anyone in lane without a jungle gank. This is OK, Nasus 'wins' his lane by creeping 3500 gold asap. AFK farm and build your SS until you get HoG+Sheen+Merc. Grab blue buff and push down towers like they're made of cardboard. Nasus can eat dragon very quickly once he gets Sheen. Teamfights are as easy as ABC: Wither their DPS, drop Spirit Fire, pop your ult, and QQQQQ until you score the ace. There are points in the game where you'll have to decide between sticking with your team or solo pushing. The ideal solo situation is your 4 bros making a scene in bottom/top lane while you push on the other side of the map. If you're farmed, the enemy team will have to send at least 2 people to stop you from taking towers, giving your 4 man group the number advantage in their area. If your team manages to keep all 5 enemies busy, laugh as you solo push all the way to the inhibitor. You have to trust your team not to overcommit to fights they won't win without you. Because many of Nasus' skills are percentage based, and there's no upper limit to Q's damage, he's one of the best scaling champs in the game. The longer the match runs, the stronger you get. Just keep pushing and farming and dominating teamfights. If the game goes on for an hour and one side has a competent Nasus, that team will almost always win. BuffsNasus is awesome with blue, the skill spam has you melting creeps, towers and champs alike. Red buff is best left to your ranged champs. ElixirsDon't have much of a use for these until late late game imo, I save gold for real items. JungleTrolling purposes only. He can't clear creeps quickly until lvl 5 and has a weak gank. Further reading: check out Hyfe's Comprehensive Guide. I don't agree with his love of Aegis or his advocacy of the 1v2 lane, but hey I'm pretty sure he's a better player than me.
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I'm an aegis fan. It's the most cost effective way of building effective hp in the game outside of stacking hearts of gold, even more so than banshee's veil.
My build is
Doran's Ring/Shield (shield if your lane is gonna be rough, ring is much more powerful on him though)
Get Sheen, Treads and Aegis
Triforce
If the game is going well after this pick up last whisper, if not so well banshee's veil.
Unless they're super heavy on ap or physical I've pretty much stopped varying from this build, it serves me well every time.
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On November 10 2010 09:10 myopia wrote:
sidenote: profile stalking reveals LoCicero runs flat armor yellows and quints. The armor will make him significantly tougher in early laning - Nasus' weakest point. I'm considering changing my runes along these lines myself. More on this later.
Taking armor yellows and quints seems like a jungling thing to me; I checked the page and saw it was labelled jungle too. Stacking flat armor makes a lot of sense when 100% of your early damage is going to be physical (as it is in the jungle) but wouldn't hp quints be better in lane? And dodge seals scale better (not that I'd necessarily take those too).
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suffeli
Finland772 Posts
Actually Nasus isn't that bad at jungling he hits lvl 4 in about 3,50~ mark only about 20 secs later than Udyr. He also has decent gank imho with wither and ghost and kills dragon fast at lvl 6... that said he isn't nowhere near the best junglers in terms of map control and other important aspects. But yeah.
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awwwww yeah, Nasus thread.
Yeah jungle nasus is doable but it gimps your siphon strike so hard it's not even desirable. If you get top solo like you should on your team you should have 120+ bonus dmg on your siphon strike by 20 minutes. It's doable vs almost any champ 1v1. The only person I can think of really giving Nasus problems at top is Galio with good mana regen because of his stupid OP spamable slow/gust combo.
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On November 10 2010 18:31 suffeli wrote:
Actually Nasus isn't that bad at jungling he hits lvl 4 in about 3,50~ mark only about 20 secs later than Udyr. He also has decent gank imho with wither and ghost and kills dragon fast at lvl 6... that said he isn't nowhere near the best junglers in terms of map control and other important aspects. But yeah.
I dislike playing Nasus as a jungler personally... but I can't deny how terrifying it is when he comes out of the bushes with wither, exhaust, and red-buff. Just instant FML for anyone he gets near.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
Surprised no one pointed this out yet....Wither is not a one point wonder what the hell are you smoking?
R>E>W>Q there is no reason to level up Q at all over the others.
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the CDR on leveling Q does effectively increase your DPS by quite a bit. But Brees is right, Wither too good.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
Eh you pick nasus to counter tanky melee teams, not to hit with your stick for a couple hundred more damage every couple seconds. I wouldnt even advise sheen/triforce on him anymore as that is not the point of playing him since draft mode came out. randuin's/banshee veil/ 4 random tank items too gud.
if your really rich and really want to get a DPS item he is a pretty good stark's holder. Spirit fire + stark's lowers armor by a flat 70-ish about? thats absurd.
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United States37500 Posts
Sheen is ok, probably after your first tank piece or full item. The extra damage is nice during the early levels but then I'd leave it at Sheen until the very 6th item to complete. Rushing Trinity or even building it before you have 3-4 tank items is just stupid.
You have this champion that's a pro initiator with a sick ultimate. But congrats, you made him into some stick beater instead who dies as soon as 4 players focus fire on him.
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nasus isn't a sick initiator :/
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he is if you max W earlier than lvl 18
which I don't do because I like hitting things with a stick
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United States37500 Posts
Ghost, Wither, buy time for an ally with a stun or a taunt. If the enemy chooses to turn and fight fight, pop your ulti. What's not good initiating with this? He's obviously no bandage + AOE snare but it works.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
I prefer the singed approach to nasus. You calmly sit in the bushes out of sight near a fight or whatever and wait for somebody to make a mistake or your real tank to initiate(nasus is best used as an off tank) then you come ghosting in from behind and flank the shit out of them and just rage all over their withered carry until they run and then you just shit on the people that got initiated on
replace wither with fling and thats basically singed for you
both push lanes
both steroid ults
zz
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United States37500 Posts
On November 12 2010 08:01 myopia wrote:
he is if you max W earlier than lvl 18
which I don't do because I like hitting things with a stick
I invest 2 points into Q then max W after E. The full snare effect does more in a team fight than the extra 60 damage between a level 2 vs a level 5 Q.
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United States37500 Posts
On November 12 2010 08:07 Brees wrote:
I prefer the singed approach to nasus. You calmly sit in the bushes out of sight near a fight or whatever and wait for somebody to make a mistake or your real tank to initiate(nasus is best used as an off tank) then you come ghosting in from behind and flank the shit out of them and just rage all over their withered carry until they run and then you just shit on the people that got initiated on
replace wither with fling and thats basically singed for you
both push lanes
both steroid ults
zz
Probably most ideal, you're right Brees. But I've been talking to Uta a lot the past 2 days and his team direly needs some sort of competent initiator. Amumu and Galio are the most derp derp ones but they're also fairly frequently banned. Malphite feels a little out of touch, so I recommended Nasus.
The less frequently you have to blow your Ghost and Wither to chase, the better. But it's still not a terribly bad option to do so in order to initiate. But pro baiting is always fun.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On November 12 2010 08:14 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 08:07 Brees wrote:
I prefer the singed approach to nasus. You calmly sit in the bushes out of sight near a fight or whatever and wait for somebody to make a mistake or your real tank to initiate(nasus is best used as an off tank) then you come ghosting in from behind and flank the shit out of them and just rage all over their withered carry until they run and then you just shit on the people that got initiated on
replace wither with fling and thats basically singed for you
both push lanes
both steroid ults
zz Probably most ideal, you're right Brees. But I've been talking to Uta a lot the past 2 days and his team direly needs some sort of competent initiator. Amumu and Galio are the most derp derp ones but they're also fairly frequently banned. Malphite feels a little out of touch, so I recommended Nasus. The less frequently you have to blow your Ghost and Wither to chase, the better. But it's still not a terribly bad option to do so in order to initiate. But pro baiting is always fun.
they also seemed to need a jungler so jungle rammus imo
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United States37500 Posts
On November 12 2010 08:15 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 08:14 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 12 2010 08:07 Brees wrote:
I prefer the singed approach to nasus. You calmly sit in the bushes out of sight near a fight or whatever and wait for somebody to make a mistake or your real tank to initiate(nasus is best used as an off tank) then you come ghosting in from behind and flank the shit out of them and just rage all over their withered carry until they run and then you just shit on the people that got initiated on
replace wither with fling and thats basically singed for you
both push lanes
both steroid ults
zz Probably most ideal, you're right Brees. But I've been talking to Uta a lot the past 2 days and his team direly needs some sort of competent initiator. Amumu and Galio are the most derp derp ones but they're also fairly frequently banned. Malphite feels a little out of touch, so I recommended Nasus. The less frequently you have to blow your Ghost and Wither to chase, the better. But it's still not a terribly bad option to do so in order to initiate. But pro baiting is always fun. they also seemed to need a jungler so jungle rammus imo
Dizzle likes WW so I think they're leaning towards him, I honestly don't think any of them have jungle rammus besides for the lolz. But you're right, Rammus would fit their niche ezpz.
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On November 12 2010 08:15 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 08:14 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 12 2010 08:07 Brees wrote:
I prefer the singed approach to nasus. You calmly sit in the bushes out of sight near a fight or whatever and wait for somebody to make a mistake or your real tank to initiate(nasus is best used as an off tank) then you come ghosting in from behind and flank the shit out of them and just rage all over their withered carry until they run and then you just shit on the people that got initiated on
replace wither with fling and thats basically singed for you
both push lanes
both steroid ults
zz Probably most ideal, you're right Brees. But I've been talking to Uta a lot the past 2 days and his team direly needs some sort of competent initiator. Amumu and Galio are the most derp derp ones but they're also fairly frequently banned. Malphite feels a little out of touch, so I recommended Nasus. The less frequently you have to blow your Ghost and Wither to chase, the better. But it's still not a terribly bad option to do so in order to initiate. But pro baiting is always fun. they also seemed to need a jungler so jungle rammus imo
I have been saying this for god knows how long but the team seems to insist we need someone better than Rammus at Dragoning... SIGH
also, both Turkey and Utah used to play a lot of jungle rammus. We also somehow got utah convinced that we need shen or something and I feel like as we transition back to him on kass and me on Panth we no longer need that mobility and instead need a Tank with either more damage or better initiation bot.
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United States37500 Posts
Uta Kass or Anivia, and takes top solo. Red mid. Who else can you play besides Panth and Kennen? Dizzle wants to jungle, so you'll have to fight him for it. Turkey can play healbot Janna or Taric (Sona if somehow not banned).
Shen is awful for your team. I vetoed it (lolz, cause I have a say, right? :D) cause he doesn't nothing in the sense of initiation. He's a secondary tank, kinda like Nasus or Singed cause he needs to have someone to ulti on.
I think I concluded with starting all your team fights (at least for now) with Ashe arrow followed by Nasus ghost in and raping shit. Sona would fit in pro with her E.
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I finally experienced Nasus' hype first-hand. 16-6-21 with Treads, Banshee, Triforce, Sunfire, FoN, LW.
Wither-> Fire-> Ult-> Q-> You have slain an enemy!-> Whack whack-> Q-> You have slain an enemy!
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I can't stand this guy. He's just not bulky enough to be a tank, and does just too little damage to carry (or even really finish off) anyone.
I'm well aware that he can be used to great effect, but I can't find a good team to fit him in, nor can I get the style down. I am really good at stacking siphoning damage thought ^^
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On November 21 2010 07:08 deth2munkies wrote:
I can't stand this guy. He's just not bulky enough to be a tank, and does just too little damage to carry (or even really finish off) anyone.
I'm well aware that he can be used to great effect, but I can't find a good team to fit him in, nor can I get the style down. I am really good at stacking siphoning damage thought ^^
I like 1v1 top with teleport, just get mad farmed and push the level, when you get the tower you can take over another lane while someone ganks and the other holds top and gets solo exp. Just push around the map getting silly farmed, if you have to teamfight early-mid just bait a little too much, when you get jumped, Ult and survive all their nonsense. Levels and Ult should save you early until the farm kicks in and you can tank anything.
edit: I have shite for elo. Hand full of salt and all that.
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Loving Nasus too. Top solo, get farmed and maybe nab a kill or two - and farm more.
I'm afraid of jungle ganks so I rarely push heavily unless I see that I'm in no danger. I go hog merc negatron if needed sheen qss(lol) randuin banshee/triforce/thornmail and cause havoc with q.
Really fun!
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On November 21 2010 10:43 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Loving Nasus too. Top solo, get farmed and maybe nab a kill or two - and farm more.
I'm afraid of jungle ganks so I rarely push heavily unless I see that I'm in no danger. I go hog merc negatron if needed sheen qss(lol) randuin banshee/triforce/thornmail and cause havoc with q.
Really fun!
Getting early river wards to watch out for their jungler is really important so that you can be a pain in the ass to lane against and push further than you otherwise would.
In a normal 1v1 scenario theres not going to be anyone that should scare you that much so you'll usually be able to siphon strike every single minion almost every wave. The importance of the ward is that it lets you go to the center of the lane and wack every minion with your staff while zoning the enemy champ with the potential of a wither>spirit fire>ult>siphon>siphon>siphon combo.
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What about Sunfire? I've always been a fan of the flat HP, and the damage makes him even more disruptive in teamfights, which is his main advantage imo. A giant jackal with particles swirling around him tends to make people scatter.
My build: Shield, hog, mercs, sunfire, omen, GA.
Farm on SS tends to make me hit hard enough.
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I don't buy Sunfire because 1. He gets a ton of HP from his ult and the infinitely more useful Randuins and Banshees (and Triforce, and Dshield), 2. He already has 2 AoE DoTs and insane farming ability, and 3. If they have so much physical damage that Randuins isn't cutting it alone, a thornmail will serve you better.
I've said it before but (imoimoimo), rushing Sunfire is a noobtrap on many champions, Randuins is better in every way. Exceptions to this rule would be like TL's last newegg match, where they were doing so well early game that Mogwai (as Shen) could afford boots1 and sunfire at level 7. If you can get it that fast, the burning aura is going to shred champions and they could continue steamrolling. Though even in this scenario, I wouldn't get Sunfire on Nasus.
Let's compare stats, shall we?
Sunfire:
450 HP,
45 Armor,
40 dps aoe*
2510 gold
*don't forget this is MAGIC damage, and you're not going to have any mpen. You're never getting the full 40.
Randuins:
300 HP,
25 HP5,
90 Armor,
15% CDR,**
slow on being hit proc,
active slow aoe (with a much larger radius than sunfire burn)
2925 gold, minus whatever HoG earned for you.
**the cdr for more frequent SS, SF, and Ult outstrips sunfire's damage by quite a bit.
There's no contest here.
sidenote: GA is bad on champs with a lot of HP. I haven't bought one on Nasus since the nerf.
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On November 23 2010 01:03 myopia wrote:
I've said it before but (imoimoimo), rushing Sunfire is a noobtrap on many champions, Randuins is better in every way. Exceptions to this rule would be like TL's last newegg match, where they were doing so well early game that Mogwai (as Shen) could afford boots1 and sunfire at level 7. If you can get it that fast, the burning aura is going to shred champions and they could continue steamrolling.
90% of the reason I went sunfire was to be able to quickly clear the opposing jungle. When you're up by that much, one of the best ways to press such an advantage is to simply cut off whatever sources of XP and gold that you can which lets you pull even further ahead. Shen's great at this because he can dash over walls and thus molest their jungle relatively safely, but he's too slow at killing jungle creeps, so sunfire is sorta the perfect fit for dicking them over like that.
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I must be missing something. Why not Malphite for the team? Imba hero, imba initation with that flash stun ulti.
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Wow, now that I can see the stats side by side for sunfire vs. omen, it is hands down omen.
I'll give it a try tonight, using the OP's build to the letter.
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My new build on nasus:
Doran's Shield
Locket
Aegis
Triforce
GG
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Locket is actually a really good tank item if you have spammable skills. It gives tons and tons of hp/mana per gold and I find I'm valuing banshee's less than it lately on front-line heros. With carries if you're getting targeted you are probably in lethal range and bv is going to save your life, with a tank you are in the fray and it gets popped by the randomest shit before every fight.
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Even though nasus can spam spirit fire/siphon strike it still only gives him a little bit of health as far as tanking goes. It might not be terrible but It'd probably be more useful on someone else on the team. I've never tried it though.
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On November 24 2010 01:23 Ruken wrote:
Even though nasus can spam spirit fire/siphon strike it still only gives him a little bit of health as far as tanking goes. It might not be terrible but It'd probably be more useful on someone else on the team. I've never tried it though.
that's exactly how I view Aegis on him. It's is a good item, but you don't buy it on a carry, which is how I play Nasus. Yeah I'm a tank, a pusher, a teamfighter, an anti-dps. Nasus is all these things. But farmed godmode Nasus is so good that dropping 2k on a support item (Aegis) is just gimping yourself imoimoimo.
Have your Shen/Janna/Soraka/Rammus/Galio/Malphite/Taric/anyone else get the Aegis.
(btw I'm not an Aegis hater I rush it every time I play Shen :> )
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On November 24 2010 01:38 myopia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2010 01:23 Ruken wrote:
Even though nasus can spam spirit fire/siphon strike it still only gives him a little bit of health as far as tanking goes. It might not be terrible but It'd probably be more useful on someone else on the team. I've never tried it though. that's exactly how I view Aegis on him. It's is a good item, but you don't buy it on a carry, which is how I play Nasus. Yeah I'm a tank, a pusher, a teamfighter, an anti-dps. Nasus is all these things. But farmed godmode Nasus is so good that dropping 2k on a support item (Aegis) is just gimping yourself imoimoimo. Have your Shen/Janna/Soraka/Rammus/Galio/Malphite/Taric/anyone else get the Aegis. (btw I'm not an Aegis hater I rush it every time I play Shen :> )
I still think Aegis has REALLY good stats though for the price! As Nasus I'm always looking for some early way to get a bit of HP, armor and Mres. More importantly you can get it by 10 minutes into the game as Nasus. 270 health, 30 armor, 39 mres and 8 damage. 1 more Mres than GA lol.
I mean for the same price you could almost finish Randuin's which is a really good item then just get a negatron if you need it but I've just always liked Aegis. Maybe I'll try forgoing it like I do when I rush Warmogs first.
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That's just it, Randuins/Banshees cover his needs so much better than Aegis. They come in useful bite size pieces - it's a very fluid item build. For the same price as aegis you can buy chain mail, negatron, and a ruby crystal. You're just as tough as if you had aegis and you're 2k gold closer to godmode. Whereas someone like Shen, who has no godmode, keeps the team rolling by grabbing the aegis.
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On November 24 2010 01:23 Ruken wrote:
Even though nasus can spam spirit fire/siphon strike it still only gives him a little bit of health as far as tanking goes. It might not be terrible but It'd probably be more useful on someone else on the team. I've never tried it though.
dude, look at what locket actually does and do the math.
EDIT: I have aegis in that build because it's the most cost and space efficient way of adding both armor and mr to multiply off your considerable health pool. Item space is a concern since I go triforce next (lol <_<). You want to get tanky as cheaply as possible or you'll never move beyond witherbot phase.
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dude, i don't think locket is that good on nasus bro dude man
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When you have a hero with spam abilities you are regenerating over 100 hp per 5, plus you get +430 hp and +450 mana and about 40 mana regen per 5 and 10% cooldown reduction. Which is pretty good for 2200 gold.
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Sounds pretty bad when you have natural life leech, don't need mana regen with Meditation/mp5 runes, and hp5 isn't exactly great during fights.
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hp5 is fine. If you run locket you don't need mp5 runes which opens up free armor or mr. And I don't know how him having passive lifesteal is supposed to be related to anything.
If you don't want to believe locket is a good tank item, shrug, not going to try to convince you.
Anyway, I changed my build a bit in the last game and i was pretty impressed with the core of:
locket
spirit visage
what you go for after that is kind of in the air, I ended the game (a 4 vs 5 I carried) with Atma's, Spirit Visage, Randuin's, Treads, Triforce and Locket.
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On November 26 2010 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:
If you run locket you don't need mp5 runes which opens up free armor or mr.
This is counterproductive. Mp5plvl are the best runes in the game (and meditation is probly the best mastery) - the whole point of running them is so you don't have to waste gold on mp5 items.
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UniversalSnip, what client do you use? I can't find your name on either the US or Euro ladder.
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How long would a soraka with locket last while being focused in a team fight? Because it's almost the same deal with Nasus.
Oh and of course locket+visage is a good combo, but it adds minimal tankage to Nasus while providing great utility to your team which is not really his roll as far as being an aura whore/healer. I'm willing to try anything though so I'll give it a shot.
I'm just thinking that locket is going to be crap in teamfights and i'll get bursted down immediately since I spent all my tank item money on it. When we're getting poked while dancing around their turret is the only time it's going to do much imo.
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Locket is OP right now. Although you do lack the flat EHP you make up for it with runes, and the stacking regen from your passive/ult/locket being increased by SV makes you pretty ridiculous.
This isn't to say that after locket, sv and sheen you are free to pump elixirs and push for a win because then your runes won't be enough to mitigate the magic damage you'll be taking, but 2 negatrons cost little more than triple pot, and with the kills you'll be getting from teamfights that isn't going to be a huge sum of money for you.
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On November 26 2010 17:48 r33k wrote:
Locket is OP right now. Although you do lack the flat EHP you make up for it with runes, and the stacking regen from your passive/ult/locket being increased by SV makes you pretty ridiculous.
This isn't to say that after locket, sv and sheen you are free to pump elixirs and push for a win because then your runes won't be enough to mitigate the magic damage you'll be taking, but 2 negatrons cost little more than triple pot, and with the kills you'll be getting from teamfights that isn't going to be a huge sum of money for you.
1 negatron = 740, triple pot = 900, 2 negatron = 1480
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
nasus has lost a lot of viability ever since super harass tanks like gragas and malphite have emerged
no reason to give a solo to a tank thats gonna let their carry farm too when you can have a tank that will deny and farm effectively at the same time
just my 2 cents on nasus current state
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On November 26 2010 17:48 r33k wrote:
Locket is OP right now. Although you do lack the flat EHP you make up for it with runes, and the stacking regen from your passive/ult/locket being increased by SV makes you pretty ridiculous.
This isn't to say that after locket, sv and sheen you are free to pump elixirs and push for a win because then your runes won't be enough to mitigate the magic damage you'll be taking, but 2 negatrons cost little more than triple pot, and with the kills you'll be getting from teamfights that isn't going to be a huge sum of money for you.
Nasus' ult doesn't give any regen.
This logic all just seems backwards to me. We're taking the best runes (mp5plvl) and the best tanking items (randuins, banshees) and trading them for lesser runes (armor, mres) and lesser tanking items (locket, sv), all because locket is fotm?
note that I'm not hating on locket. I'm placing it in the same category as Aegis - good, but much more useful if someone else on your team buys it.
On November 27 2010 01:42 Brees wrote:
nasus has lost a lot of viability ever since super harass tanks like gragas and malphite have emerged
no reason to give a solo to a tank thats gonna let their carry farm too when you can have a tank that will deny and farm effectively at the same time
just my 2 cents on nasus current state
I agree, but I still think Nasus is good enough to run in a dual lane with someone like Janna.
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You don't take runes because they're 'the best runes', you take them because they give you something you need, and you don't need mp5 with locket... which is a legit choice for it's own reasons. Put it this way, you aren't giving up mp5 runes, you're getting a free set of them with your tank item.
I really don't think locket is a lesser tanking item than randuin's or banshee's. I certainly wouldn't say it's better in terms of absolute effects but it's on their level, and it's way undercosted compared to them.
@ruken us, not sure why I'm not showing up as my name is the same there
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I have been having some succes with:
Doran shield+mana pot
chalice
boots(normal)
upgrade boots
the shield that gives life+mr+armor(can't seem to remember the name...)
sheen=>trinity
flame cap(ala garen) XD
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dont get chalice, such a bad item
nothing u cant get from runes (unless u doing the pro 5chalice stack)
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Yeah start Doran's ring and take strength of spirit if you're having mana problems before you can afford runes.
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so, i was just thinking about it earlier, but what is it that makes some ppl think that aegis is such a must have for nasus? like, aegis is a great item and all, but i feel like the only players who will say aegis is 100% core are the nasus players. It just seems weird to me that some ppl are so deadset on aegis for nasus when in my experience, it is a situational midgame item on an offtank or support, while even some straight dps nasus players will get aegis for the hell of it. Just seems weird to me.
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I think it is because Nasus used to fall under the category of "build whatever on him, he will work anyway" (the same category supports are in, that's why you build auras on them - they don't care about items)
At least that's my view on that matter (though nowadays i think nasus needs to be tanky)
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Its more about the fact that as Nasus you're unlikely to die during fights, so the majority of your lost team fights are going to come from the rest of your team dying. Given that you're a tank with very little to bring to the field disablewise and far less burst damage potential to scare off carries, you need to be able to keep the fight going as long as possible to let your innate lifesteal/spiritfire/ult shred into your opponents.
Aegis fits the bill. So does Randuin. If your team's performance in fights is going to be relatively immune to the effects of randuin (they have a heavy magical/CC and relatively position independent team), Aegis comes out as the superior option.
Nasus is great and all, but he isn't going to be dealing dedicated carry level damage, and he doesn't have much utility outside wither. Compare that to mumu/galio/nunu/olaf/gragas/malphite/XZ. The gulf in team fight control is massive, so you need to make up for it somehow, and giving your team a shitton of armor and mres during the early portion of the game when the last whispers and void staffs aren't out is huge.
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Bump just for a moment of "I fucking told you so". Locket = brokennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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Still wouldn't get it on Nasus ._.
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Locket was a good item but not really on Nasus. I DID actually try it on him. You cant just slap it on anyone and have it be broken.
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I was running around the map like fed singed each time I used it, idk how you could possibly fail with it. lol
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Just raped a game with this build. 7/1/11
I usually pretty mediocre with him, but this game i was tower diving like crazy, getting kills and getting away. Killing the panth jumping in and the TF trying to gank haha.
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Been doing a build where I start d-shield>>hog>>sheen>> catalyst. Seems like sheen and catalyst give me all the mana I will need with the 0/9/21. Sheen gives me a little extra damage early and midgame and helps with farming. I turn hog into randuins next and catalyst into Banshee order depending on other team. Turn sheen into Trinity next.
Been maxing Q and E kind of evenly. I need the extra points in Q because I'm not great at farming yet. I haven't been getting a solo lane because it seems a lot more games lately don't have junglers with the nerf or maybe its just my ELO.
My game is inconsistent. I don't really even dominate and sometimes I feed a bit. I haven't quite worked out when to initiate. I seem to think my team is with me and I try to lead the way and get caught sometimes.
I think the build is decent but my gameplay needs works. Any extra tips would be helpful. I'm liking playing nasus. Tanky but gives me hope I could carry some games if I get early kills and branch out items.
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can anyone give me pointers for how strong my Q should be at certain points, like the 10 and 20 minute mark? I believe I was sitting around 170 bonus and they told me I should have double that at 15 minutes in ( I understand this differs as you solo/face ranged opponents in lane)
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United States47024 Posts
300 bonus at 15 minutes is really exaggerating. That's equivalent to 100 creeps killed with SS. Even with decent laning you can only expect 100 cs by 12-14 minutes, and the CD on SS means it's pretty much impossible for ALL of those to be SS kills--particularly if you're playing correctly and not maxing Q first.
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On February 01 2011 23:21 Bloodash wrote:
can anyone give me pointers for how strong my Q should be at certain points, like the 10 and 20 minute mark? I believe I was sitting around 170 bonus and they told me I should have double that at 15 minutes in ( I understand this differs as you solo/face ranged opponents in lane)
First it's important that we define "bonus damage". What this really means is the second number in the parentheses displayed in the siphon strike tool tip. For example, when it says "Nasus's next attack will deal 110 (112 + 225) physical damage." 225 divided by 3 is the number of times you've actually used siphon strike to score a killing blow on a minion/champion. That's the number we want and that's your bonus damage.
Too many people use siphon strike on a minion and see they did 400 damage and say "I have 400 bonus damage you guys all suck at farming Nasus's Q!"
I haven't played too much Nasus since the buff, but from what I've played you should aim for around 150 bonus damage by 10 minutes. Bear in mind these numbers are only if you have a solo and if you're controlling the lane. You should get around 300 bonus damage by 20 minutes.
It's been my experience that most people stating you should have like 200 bonus damage at 7 minutes in are usually playing at such a low level that their opponents are terrible and don't know how to pressure Nasus at all. Sometimes vs a good opponent you can get those kind of numbers but that's only in rare cases.
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Oh and I use cooldown runes and cooldown masteries combined with sneaking a level into Q whenever I can. It's ridiculous how much a duo lane or someone that can harass you slows down your Q farming. It can mean you only have 115 bonus damage by like 20 minutes lol.
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thanks, good to know I'm not a total nub, yes it really depends what you are facing, I usually try to compensate to creep a bit more but that doesn't get you very far in the long run
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Nasus damage is pretty secondary to his tanking ability early in the game. Your ultimate will always be a heavy source of your damage and whither makes you useful even with low damage. I'd easily sacrifice bonus damage in order to get more CS overall or avoid dying. Havling that extra bit of hp that stops you from being burst down even with ultimate up makes a massive difference.
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I've been starting Nasus with boots + 3 potions as I find that extra bit of movement speed makes it easier to get in and last hit with SS. Guess I'm not a big fan of Doran items either (dislike dead-end items) and with the recent price increase, it's easier for me to go this route.
I pretty much build him exactly the same though. Tons of fun getting Triforce and FoN and just chasing down squishies. Totally agree about not needing any more damage beyond sheen/triforce unless of course your team is lacking in which case Ghostblade is pretty badass (zoom zoom zooooom).
Also, I know Frozen Mallet is a little redundant with triforce but it is really fun sometimes.
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You're too valuable to your team to be a chaser IMO. Don't bother with FoN for that reason, if you need MR get a banshee veil. The more enemies aronud the more your leech with your ulti and them ore AD you get.
You don't need boots at all in lane, you are tanky enough with SoS and dorans shield that you can just last hit without worrying too much about harass. Boots should only be used to try to get kills.
Mallet again is not necessary with whither anyways.
I honestly don't see dorans as a dead end item since 90% of the games you won't need the space that badly anyway. You can sell it lategame for like 200 gold loss after a huge gain in most normal games.
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I've never needed to get damage items beyond triforce. I'd rather get all tank items and become unkillable. Nasus farms like a boss.
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I want to try Mercs/Randuins/Aegis/Trinity Force/Atma's/I.E or I.E/Last whisper or Black Cleaver if they have a lot of armour with triple bots and blue buff for max CDR and +400 on Q I want to pwn ppl under E with 1 Q crit ^^
I've gotten close but by then the game is ending and people are focusing you. CDR seems to be more important than AD though later on so maybe something like frozen heart is a good idea. with triple pots as much as possible.
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On February 09 2011 03:23 Slayer91 wrote:
You're too valuable to your team to be a chaser IMO. Don't bother with FoN for that reason, if you need MR get a banshee veil. The more enemies aronud the more your leech with your ulti and them ore AD you get.
You don't need boots at all in lane, you are tanky enough with SoS and dorans shield that you can just last hit without worrying too much about harass. Boots should only be used to try to get kills.
Mallet again is not necessary with whither anyways.
I honestly don't see dorans as a dead end item since 90% of the games you won't need the space that badly anyway. You can sell it lategame for like 200 gold loss after a huge gain in most normal games.
I've had several games where the other team has a well played carry that was very good at poking and only getting close at the right time (Ashe and Kassadin being common examples). Being able to shut one down early and still make it out to fight the rest is definitely worth it imo. Standing around their tanky characters to get some extra damage doesn't really mean much as they have armor/MR anyways. All the while, the guys that are actually doing damage are dancing outside of range. I guess you can catch a few of their squishier melee characters but I'd rather leave that to my carries.
I will always take BV on a squishy character over FoN, no question. On a tanky character though, I think FoN is really comparable to BV since the regen bonuses will make a difference in a teamfight whereas it's unlikely you'll get more than one blocked spell during that time. I usually go treads with cleanse/ghost so that blocked spell isn't that valuable to me. Plus the speed bonus is a huge plus (our playstyles are different so that probably accounts for our preference in item). I do understand the mana/hp bonus from BV is there; it makes it a close call for a tank.
And you're right about mallet, usually triforce + omen are more than enough after wither. It has been a while since I picked it up tbh, it's just a fun item that goes well on an off-tank.
As for Doran's, it isn't the fact that it takes up a slot or whatever, it's that the 475 gold can go to getting sheen or boots quicker and I find that's a lot more useful. Again, it is a really good item for what you pay and I'm probably in the minority with this preference as a lot of people still opt for Doran's ______ first.
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Problem is that you should never really be catching up to an ashe/kassadin once whither is worn off because of frost arrow/riftwalk, normally ranged carries just counter you, you need like an AP carry to burst them.
Banshee gives you HP and mana as well remember. FoN gives some more MR as well, but HP regen isnt that amazing on nasus imo.
If you can justify chasing a carry away during your ultimate then sure I guess, but normally your 15 seconds should be spent well.
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Been trying out Nasus. If I face something like Ashe on top (1v1), I feel helpless. If I walk into range to last hit, I get one or more arrows in my face. If I try to hit her she just runs back. I don't have enough mana to spam my E all the time, and I can't prevent her from last hitting everything in sight. Any tips?
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On February 14 2011 21:17 BouBou.865 wrote:
Been trying out Nasus. If I face something like Ashe on top (1v1), I feel helpless. If I walk into range to last hit, I get one or more arrows in my face. If I try to hit her she just runs back. I don't have enough mana to spam my E all the time, and I can't prevent her from last hitting everything in sight. Any tips?
At top, use bushes to zone him, use E to farm if he has mp5 runes for volley spamm and some ashes dont take E early so that makes for some potent zoning
But sometimes the farm at the early levels dont matter that much, sicne at lvl 5 ur lvl E kills ranged minions by itself
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On February 14 2011 22:22 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2011 21:17 BouBou.865 wrote:
Been trying out Nasus. If I face something like Ashe on top (1v1), I feel helpless. If I walk into range to last hit, I get one or more arrows in my face. If I try to hit her she just runs back. I don't have enough mana to spam my E all the time, and I can't prevent her from last hitting everything in sight. Any tips? At top, use bushes to zone him, use E to farm if he has mp5 runes for volley spamm and some ashes dont take E early so that makes for some potent zoning But sometimes the farm at the early levels dont matter that much, sicne at lvl 5 ur lvl E kills ranged minions by itself
Depends. Nasus either levels Q to farm it asap or E to farm in case he can´t lasthit in his lane.
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http://www.own3d.tv/video/54372/Nasus_SoloQ_with_Commentary
I'd recommend watching this vid on Nasus if you would like a few pointers on (a) playstyle. TreeEskimo talks about his skill build (which I actually don't follow, myself, but then I'm a noob, so.. I tend to max whither or Q first as they suit me a bit better) and also goes into a bit about positioning in team fights.
One thing that I thought was particularly good was how he would be content to just zone the DPS out from the team fights and not waste time chasing them. I think this is something that a lot of people, myself included, would do well to learn and remember. It's so easy to just get tunnel vision on that low health MF or Ashe and completely forget about your team.
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Interesting that he went into a duo lane with Malphite. I would assume both those characters would need the farm. Most sucessful games I have played with nasus I was a solo lane.
Edit - His build isn't too different than what is in this thread. DShield, TriForce, Mercs, Aegis are all good items on nasus. Although he runs exhaust for his 2nd summoner.
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I've went back to running exhaust now. You get kited too hard vs ranged carries who can really kill you, and you really need to be able to hulk mode if you took a solo lane, you cant chase and not do anything or not chase and get pwned. Obviously sitting in the middle of the group with spirit fire and ulti up spamming Q on a squisy melee of AP carry who got overbold is ideal, but when the fog clears it's usually the ranged carries that are alive, and unless they focused you, you probably are as well.
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I think that's probably why red buff is so useful on him. You just participate in a team fight as normal, until your Wither comes off CD, allowing you to slow the ranged carry, get in range to get a Q hit off and then you've applied red buff and will either be able to stick to them from then on, or be able to force them to run too far away from the fight to be of any use.
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Exhaust is awesome on Nasus, dunno what else I'd want to run over it - maybe a rally or teleport, but realistically he doesn't need flash/cleanse/ignite.
I guess worst case if your team has no CV he could run ghost + cv, but ghost + exhaust makes his early game a lot stronger in my opinion. Since exhaust is good all game long and his early game is his biggest weakness, I feel like exhaust is probably the best second summoner to run on him.
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On February 19 2011 18:31 TreeEskimo wrote:
Exhaust is awesome on Nasus, dunno what else I'd want to run over it - maybe a rally or teleport, but realistically he doesn't need flash/cleanse/ignite.
I guess worst case if your team has no CV he could run ghost + cv, but ghost + exhaust makes his early game a lot stronger in my opinion. Since exhaust is good all game long and his early game is his biggest weakness, I feel like exhaust is probably the best second summoner to run on him.
If this is the real TreeEski, Welcome! I personally run/ran Ghost+Cleanse on him. I seem to eat a lot of CC and it helps with that. I really haven't had a chance to run exhaust since the rework but its something I could give a shot.
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I see exhaust's uses but cleanse makes you really hard to gank with wither/cleanse/ult(hp) and ghost. But then I play super farm q Nasus so...
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I play Ghost/CV if we have no CV, and Ghost/Exhaust when we have someone running CV. Ghost/Exhaust is so good because you wither them, then exhaust just before it runs out. It's great for helping your jungler gank. It's amazing how many people just let you Q farm as Nasus in a solo lane or even a Duo Lane. I prefer Duo just because most Bot teams just let me farm up to 100 Q by 10min. at the latest. Maybe it's my elo level but it's redic.
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I wonder, how useful is Nasus in 3v3? Since the lategame seems to be his strong point.
He is however fairly tanky, and Wither now shuts down 1 out of 3 instead of 1/5 enemies. Armor redux and facemelting SS seem attractive still. Any thoughts/suggestions?
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im purely theorycrafting here, but I don't think he can farm too much on his Q in 3 v 3.
other than that he very well could be a very strong choice.
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I would guess that Nasus' ult is rather weak on TT. Doesn't deal as much damage, doesn't give you as much bonus AD.
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Yeah Nasus was pretty decent on TT until everyone figured out that singed/mundo were kings on that map. He's still ok I guess.
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What IS wrong with Nasus? I've been stomping so hard these few games that I don't really see how he should fail. Red buff is available more of the time, and if you pop exhaust, wither and red buff all over the place you slow basically everything. Aside of that, you're super hard to kill and you still hit pretty damn hard.
How come Nasus isn't seen a lot competitively? What are similar champs that perform their roles better?
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Nasus' effectiveness is directly proportional to the amount of farm he receives. If you let him, he will farm his q to 5 billion, get a trinity and every tank item he wants. He will then proceed to rip the enemy team apart. The problem is getting that farm. If your playing against good players, they will be aware of him and actively try to shut him down.
I look at it this way, nasus is like a stronger version of pirate. They both need a lot of farm to be effective. nasus needs less and is therefore viable, pirate isnt.
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How can you shut down a Spirit Fire using Nasus? Shutting him down the first 3-4 levels is ezpz, afterwards it seems impossible to stop him from plunking down his SF whenever he pleases and getting sick farm.
If I really enjoy Nasus, that shouldn't stop me from getting to highish elo, though?
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On February 24 2011 16:16 BouBou.865 wrote:
How can you shut down a Spirit Fire using Nasus? Shutting him down the first 3-4 levels is ezpz, afterwards it seems impossible to stop him from plunking down his SF whenever he pleases and getting sick farm.
If I really enjoy Nasus, that shouldn't stop me from getting to highish elo, though?
SF is really mana intensive if you want to be ss every minion you can get your hands on, so I wouldnt recommend using it to farm. getting q is as important than gold, if not more so.
Solo q nasus will serve you well though. Most of the time teams are uncoordinated enough to let you afk farm while they run around the map chasing your teammates. You still lose games where bot and mid feed like hell, but you still get a chance to win them cuz your ulti lets you baron incredibly fast, and farmed nasus hurts like hell.
But teams ban nasus when they play against Ruken's team. That should tell you something.
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If I really enjoy Nasus, that shouldn't stop me from getting to highish elo, though?
Playing Nasus in solo queue is hoping your team doesn't feed too hard for the first 30 minutes, then winning the game with your massive amounts of farm.
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Sweet. I love his animations, the fact that Late Game is the thing to aim for, and how hard to can roll over people. Just wanted to hear if he was just a pub stomper or actually diverse enough to learn.
Skins are a tad boring though. Giving him a Jesus/Jaysus skin would be kewlz.
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Ah ya its the real me, I guess now that I've made a TL account I'll have to remember to stream posting something here to prove it.
I think the reason why you don't see Nasus often in competitive play is that he can be kited fairly easily. He was seen all the time back in the AoE ult press R to win metagame because both sides had to commit to the fight, there was little to no running and gunning it was simply everyone throw everything they have at each other and see who comes out on top.
Since the current style of play has a lot more poke and kiting at least by the DPS players, Nasus could just kill the tanks - but I don't think that's nearly as useful as picking another champion that could actually get onto their DPS.
Well overall I still think Nasus can be an extremely strong pick - just against lineups that can't kite effectively or have to commit to a fight in order to win.
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Can't test this now, but if you add Tiamat, can Nasus Q farm multiple creeps at the same time? If he can, he's the ultimate snowballer lol.
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On March 11 2011 06:17 BouBou.865 wrote:
Can't test this now, but if you add Tiamat, can Nasus Q farm multiple creeps at the same time? If he can, he's the ultimate snowballer lol.
No he can't.
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On March 11 2011 06:17 BouBou.865 wrote:
Can't test this now, but if you add Tiamat, can Nasus Q farm multiple creeps at the same time? If he can, he's the ultimate snowballer lol.
with a wriggles + tiamat proc you can kill multiple minions with your Q but you will only be credited +3 damage to siphon strike
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Even if u could by the time you invest into a tiamat you won't be able to farm as much any more. Unless you seriously want to delay your tank items and sheen.
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Even if tiamat did count all the kills towards q stacks, it's still not a good item on nasus. I just can't justify any damage items aside from trinity force and some situational Armor pen item (last whisper). Everything else should go towards the tank items imo.
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Don't need sheen when your Q is +50, at least for a while. If you get an early kill, though? I run ghost/tele, so that means super fast Tiamat, and the regen is pretty sweet in lane.
So far I have been exclusively laning top 1v2, and doing okay-ish. My CS at level 11 is about their highest x 1.3. (about their mid).
Am I doing something wrong? I feel that from levels 1-7 there is not a lot I can do to farm, except pick last hits off under the tower. Together they usually have a bit more cs than I do at level 11.
Am I doing something wrong or?
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You're building a Tiamat. That's wrong enough.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
been raping with a new nasus style, havent lost yet and carried some pretty horrid teams.
1. TAKE MID NOT TOP VERY IMPORTANT
this way you arent just afk farming top vs another guy and letting fate decide who wins based on the 4v4. as mid you have control over dragon fights, skirmishes, and jungle ganks, etc
another perk is that its basically impossible to gank you mid when you are that beefy, so you are pretty much guaranteed good farm. I just never use spirit fire at all and q all creeps.
2. start cloth armor + 5 hp pots, ghost + exhaust, 1-8-21 masteries, and 25 armor pen + hp per level seals and mr per level glyphs
all this should be obvious, most likely you go vs a ranged carry mid and you are pretty much untouchable to a certain extent. they will even go out of their way to relentlessly auto attack you ive seen since your melee and lose cs as a result.
3. turn cloth armor into HOG when possible then farm merc treads/trinity force
in teamfights you dont want to be with your team, coming into the fight at a different angle after some one else initiates, preferably a flank.
wither their carry if possible and start q'ing people and shit, only ult when your sure that they wont be able to just walk away/flash
use exhaust after wither, not both at the same time obv
skill order R>Q>E>W 1 point in W at level 4
enjoy stomping solo queue
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Did you guys have a chance to solo against Jarman? I just had a horrible early game vs him. You can't really trade hits with him because of his passive, and he can still harass you with his q if you play passive.
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I don't see how his early game is good versus anybody tbh lol. Even Xin beats me the first few levels, can't imagine Jarvan IV being more annoying than Xin as Nasus.
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By the way, do you gain anything from going autoattack-->SS instead of straight up SS? I'm talking about the initial blow. Seems harder to land, but it feels like it hits harder.
Also, Tiamat splash kills don't help your Q  I know it's not super viable, but if you get first blood it usually doesn't matter what you take anyways, and I figured you might be able to snowball even harder with Tiamat farm.
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Personally, I would never build a Tiamat on Nasus. I build Nasus for CD reduction, Armor Pen, and tank items as needed (Plus the usual Trinity Force). The ONLY time I last hit without Q is when a creep would otherwise kill it. I think my record was +650ish bonus damage on Siphoning Strike.
If I flanked the enemy team in a team fight, dropping E below a support or carry and hitting Q could literally take off half of their health or more.
TLDR: Auto attacking creeps as Nasus is bad. Never kill a creep with an auto attack unless an allied creep is going to kill it. Always kill with Q.
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TLyoudidn'tread: Is it better to auto attack first, and then Q or Q first? for raw damage output in teambattles.
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I think every on-next-hit abilities now reset AA timer, so you always want to get in an auto first before activating them.
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On March 18 2011 02:09 BouBou.865 wrote:
TLyoudidn'tread: Is it better to auto attack first, and then Q or Q first? for raw damage output in teambattles.
I apologize, I misread what you initially wrote.
Using any "On Next Attack" ability does indeed reset your auto attack timer. If you time it right, you can definitely do the following:
Auto Attack > SS to basically give yourself a free auto attack. Against jungle creeps / heroes, this is amazing. Late game (and with Trinity Force), your Q will be pretty much one shotting lane creeps anyway, but it would definitely be worthwhile to practice.
If you're playing in lower level games, a decent strategy early game is to hide in the brush in top or bottom with your ally (preferably a stunner). When an enemy face checks the brush, Auto Attack, the split second it lands you should hit Q. Your SS will then pop them for bonus damage. It probably won't net a kill, but you'll drop the enemy to half or so.
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Sorry for being so stingy, I'm usually so laid back I'm horizontal but I'm majorly stressed out right no.
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Now I'm playing against better players, stuff is getting harder for me. Nasus is no more 1v5 carry npnpnp.
Anyways, how do you beat Malzahar in a solo lane? His magic DoT hits quite hard, and even with defensive masteries and 5 hp pots I couldn't do a whole lot against him. Also, his ult pwned me quite hard. Shoulda gotten QSS for that I guess.
Another question: What are key differences between Nasus and Renekton? The most apparent to me was that Renekton is actually very strong early/mid game, whereas Nasus is very meh in those areas.
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you cant beat malzahar. switch lanes with a ranged character.
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Against malz, you need to avoid all the wall things, and every dot that is on a creep should NOT end up on you. Basically with your lifesteal he can't actually kill you with his mana pool, but if he gets enough auto hits off he will, or at least be able to burst you down with the 4 button mash combo. (You HAVE to know this is coming, if he gets the null zone and the wall off on you before hitting the ult are so fucked in the ass, you need to at least dodge the wall, if not the null zone as well, though I'm not sure that's always possible, nothing you can do about getting malefic visions off).
If you are mid lane, well Nasus shouldn't really be mid lane, you just need to tower hug.
If you are top lane, you have some hope here;
1: If he tries to push the lane using malefic visions you are closer to the tower, he uses mana, and he's open for a gank. It will be harder to CS well and you have to watch the missing calls though.
2: If he tries to harass you down with auto hits he will draw creep aggro and push the lane, again opening the lane for a gank.
You can auto hit lanes to control how much its pushed since if its pushed too hard he will reset the lane and own you all over again.
It's maybe possible you can bush camp so you can't be auto hits since I don't think malz can afford to eat the whither/Q/auto combo unless he has teleport.
Oh, take teleport on nasus, makes hard lanes manageable, you can be around the map while still farming like a mofo and you have ridiculous backdoor threats when you 3 shot towers with Q. Winning your lane as nasus should mean equal cs with a high Q count. You almost never expect to get kills until your jungler comes to gank. Nasus is GREAT with jungle ganks since so many champs can't harass him without pushing lane due to mana constrictions and cloth+5 opening, and so he comes into a pushed lane and nasus rolls in with whither for a free gap close+red buff application and still hits like a truck with E/Q and can tower dive with ultimate and second whither.
On Nasus vs Renektron:
They both heal and have similar ultimates but basically:
-Renektron is designed to be VERY comfortable in the middle of a fight. AoE splash, insane AoE healing and his slice and dice make him a great guy to sit in the middle and AoE with his ultimate up being unkillable, but can chase down runners with Slice/dice and stun. His DPS is not insane but very, very sustained.
-Nasus still has great tank and AoE potential, but essentially he doesn't do all that much AoE damage. His E and his W help a lot in initating a teamfight (don't forget the armour reduction of E! you can make your ranged DPS hit harder and make theirs do almost nothing while being forced to use an escape skill or have a fight initiated), but his passive and Q mean you basically want to pick 1 squishy hit his with whither and burst him down, which heals you enough to keep fighting after all the damage you took initiating. You need to be real tanky because you can't do much in an AoE fest like rene who can heal and slice dice away no problem and laugh at the other team for focusing him.
TL:DR
Rene = AoE Sustained
Nasus = bursty/initiating/single target
Just for the record, rene rapes nasus in lane real hard. The only good thing is that in order to do that he has to aoe creeps and push the lane, so you can comfortably sit at your tower. The first time I tried to fight back a bit the way I do with shen and malph if they try to bully me and it went horribly wrong. Second time I just farmed and lifestealed his harass and it worked fine, losing very slightly in cs only.
Rene is generally stronger than Nasus right now IMO, but against melee heavy teams a farmed nasus can still basically 1v5 like a boss.
I wouldn't say nasus is that WEAK to kiting, more like he isn't retardedly strong against kiting like most melee DPS are. His whither and high base movement speed+trinity means he can generally chase down and kill most champs. You just can easily be killed late game if you don't rely on your teammates to do something. At the end of the day you basically go 100% tank before and after trinity force and nobody goes like "LOLOL shen/malph so useless vs kiting".
I find Udyr has a LOT more trouble against kiting. You get a movement speed burst but no ranged/best attackspeed/movement speed slow in the game.
Also, I find Nasus is actually strongest in the midgame. My 20-25 minute core is something like HoG/Aegis/Sheen/CDR Boots (mercs if they have a LOT of cc for you). Next is trinity and from that core to 5-10 minutes after trinity you're insanely powerful. Your power starts to go down a lot when
a: ranged dps gets LW
b: AP carry gets void staff
I suppose lategame is when tanks in general lose power, you have to be careful about starting a fight when your team isn't ready because you die so much faster. Like I almost question getting Banshees if you are only getting 45 magic resist per 100 you're buying. You also REALLY need randuins on nasus because it helps your initiation, helps you chase down people who hit you, and generally stops the ranged carry from shooting you all the time when your W is on cooldown. I also like to get thornmail because ranged DPS and AP carries with high DPS like malz/vlad are really your main problem. My final items look something like:
CDR Boots+Trinity force+Randuins+FoN+Warmogs+Thornmail
People want to build damage on him but I find his damage really doesn't fall off later on, while his survivial does. Best thing I can see it to build up a ton of EHP and regen so that most people don't have the DPS to kill you and thornmail means you can punish ranged carries easily. Those malz/vlad with 300 cs become your worst nightmare. But at least you have high movement speed against people who 0 escape. (whither on pool vlad is like huehuehue where u goin?)) and enough hp and regen that hopefully your team can kill them fast enough. The only times I'd suggest damage items are:
Last whisper against a REALLY heavy tank team.
Like if you want a full damage build it will be something like:
Attack speed boots/Trinity Force/LW/BT/Atmas/Warmogs. And while sure you have 45% lifesteal and a ton of AD you're just so squishy and you can't do much with it. In general getting that extra 100 AD doesn't help that much when getting tankier is really important. I'd prefer to just Q people at 40% CDR and possibly some Arpen and be unkillable with >200/200 defense and 4-5k hp with tons of regen than to have good DPS and be slightly tankier than a DPS. Your ultimate gives you tons of bonus AD anyway so its not that important.
Although I'd like to note both having someone Soul shroud and Starks are great on nasus. The 10% CDR means you can spare a bluepot to reach 40% and doubling your lifesteal + some arpen + MOAR regen is great. Also you want to sell aegis for like FoN later on so you want someone else to get it, if not just leave it because everyone has so much penetration that late.
Your rule of thumb for damage on nasus is: 40% CDR+armour pen+many farm+rest tank.
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Nasus gets stronger the longer the game lasts due to imba-ult and SS stacking . . .
Past 40-45 Min I think he one of the best 2 champions to have (the other being corki).
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Did you read my post at all? The problem is getting raped by AP and ranged carries uber fast who just ignore all your stats and punish any small mistake in positioning. It's generally also harder to farm SS for long periods of time when fights are more common later on.
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On March 27 2011 23:53 Slayer91 wrote:
-Nasus still has great tank and AoE potential, but essentially he doesn't do all that much AoE damage. His E and his W help a lot in initating a teamfight (...)
TL:DR
Rene = AoE Sustained
Nasus = bursty/initiating/single target
Is it just me who thinks Nasus is awful at initiating and should never do so on most team comps? Nothing against Nasus spearheading the charge into the teamfight... after an opponent is caught out of position by Ashe arrow or blitz grab or Tibbers etc. >>
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nasus was tanky dps before tanky dps existed
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I don't mean that you should tell your malphite to back off and let you do the work but I'm just saying if you need to force a fight, whither means that they can't get away. Obviously he's not a STRONG initiator since that requires a more hard CC. But if you're in an advantageous position the wither ghost ultimate on nasus can wreck face.
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What's up my fellow dogs? Original dog here...I've lost my way somewhat, I stopped playing Nasus so I could fulfill other roles on my team/solo ranked and now I suck with him. Plus after 7 months of playing ONLY Nasus (not kidding he was the only champ I owned and I played only him in beta) I guess I got sick of him. I considered myself pretty decent with him and I was known in LiquidParty for being one of the only people to play nasus at the time and playing him well. I recently hit 1650 elo and I'm looking to get back on the horse(dog?) with my Nasus gameplay.
On March 27 2011 21:10 freelander wrote:
you cant beat malzahar. switch lanes with a ranged character.
I always found it a draw and the best either of you can do is push the lane as hard as you can. If you don't have mana regen up the butt you lose. Of course if you DON'T have mana regen up the butt to cast spirit fire then you'll just have to be content farming at the tower, but why do that when you can get as much CS as him?
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Brees' post on page 6 seems pretty legit, though with the HoG nerf I wouldn't bother getting it anymore. Save the cloth armor for something else. The steady item nerfs killed my dog enthusiasm. I long for the good ol' days where I could grab banshees randuins triforce and be totally unstoppable.
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Yeah Randuins nerf hurtttttt.
I find I need to keep two rune pages for nasus depending on who you're soloing against. Sometimes you need insane mana regen so you don't lose all your CS to tower and sometimes you need insane tankyness so you don't get owned by say...a leblanc.
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On April 19 2011 12:18 Ruken wrote:
I always found it a draw and the best either of you can do is push the lane as hard as you can. If you don't have mana regen up the butt you lose. Of course if you DON'T have mana regen up the butt to cast spirit fire then you'll just have to be content farming at the tower, but why do that when you can get as much CS as him?
I don't see Nasus having a big problem with malz, even in mid lane. The thing about malz is that most of his abilities can be dodged. Null zone, malefic on creeps, and wall. Only his ultimate burst and his malefic harass should be a problem. If he tries to harass a lot with malefic I don't think its enough to do too much if you lifesteal off creeps and open hp regen+1 pot or dshield.
Malz is strongest against squishies with poor pushing power, i.e that he can easily zone at level 6 and push the wave and either back for free or go to gank if he's already done that. Nasus has solid pushing power with just auto+Q.
Also, in solo top, spamming Q on creeps to push is just so risky for a jungle gank. Malz has 0 escape skills so he's basically screwed without both ghost and flash and probably even with that if its a strong jungler, because of Nasus W-->redbuff slow.
I wouldn't use spirit fire at all. I actually think if he pushes a lot (wait for him to Q a creep) you can just go whither him and Q+ a few auto hits and take like 1/3 or 1/2 his hp from lvl 2, and if you get low because of visions spam and auto hits you can use your pot and wait for regen+life steal and then do it again, then tp back with a philo stone and zone him from lane or force a back. The only thing you might want to do is get a null magic and boots on a second back when he backs in case the level 6+ burst is strong.
The only thing I'm worried about is Q spam+auto hit spam but I don't think its that strong because you can just W him under creep aggro and go hit him.
I'm about the same elo as you ruken, I mostly played Nasus/Udyr/Support in solo ranked but I've only got 100 games or so with him in solo ranked. So my experience is a little bit less.
Really miss randuins omen. Having that free whither on any ranged carry who focused you was amazing, and the active as well was sick. It also helped your regeneration, as when you got warmogs and FoN as well you had insane regeneration and the only thing that could beef it up more would be someone with starks. (also doubling your passive, holy shit unkillable much?)
Right now my runes (doubling as an tiger udyr jungle page since I use 1 for AP and another for support) is like:
Reds = AD
Quints = Arpen
Yellow = Armour
Blues = 5 mr/lv, 4 CDR/lvl to get 4% to buff me up to 40% if I get bluepot, 6% from masteries and 20% from items. (Used to be randuins+cdr boots, now frozen heart)
If I was doing a nasus only page I'd have arpen reds, and switch quints between move speed, health, and arpen, depending on the lane.
I'm playing around with philo stone. In a hard lane, it boosts your hp regen and mana regen a lot, and also giving you gold/5. 22.5 hp/regen is almost as much as old randuins and it isn't that bad later on by the time you get really tanky but you don't have enough for your last couple items. It also fills the gold item vacuum once filled by HoG.
Back to mercs 100%. I guess if they have like 0 CC getting CDR boots and just skipping frozen heart and only havign a chain mail works.
So my build is looking like:
(philo stone), Mercs, Aegis-->Sheen-->Trinity Force-->Tank
Final item build looking something like Mercs/Trinity Force/Warmogs/Frozen Heart/FoN/X
X being like Last whisper/Thornmail/QSS/Randuins/Starks/Atmas/IE whatever you think is best.
I've been getting sheen later and later. I find the DPS increase is actually very small over a lane. You only really need it when you "wake up" and stop farming and start running around killing everyone. If I'm starting cloth + 5 I basically can finish and aegis getting a ton of tankiness and the 8 AD as well. You basically win a lane as Nasus when you can just almost totally ignore them unless they commit and Q creeps all day and get all the cs. You just need to be tanky for this I find generally if you have to fight back it actually means you're losing a lot in the lane, even if you're actually close to killing him.
I'm not totally sold on the frozen heart, but CDR is such a great stat and you need to get armour from somewhere. I kinda feel like a negatron/chain mail/giants belt before finishing any items though, because you need to get tanky fast and stuff like warmogs/fon/frozen heart has a lot of stats that you are paying for but don't use until you can't be bursted down. (Mana/regen/movement speed).
Hard lanes: (I play on EU, so basically only ever see tanks and tanky dps up top. I don't see any problem with APs though, its just a matter of having enough pots/hp/mres that they can't burst you down with their mana, after like lvl 7 its just Q creeps all day, except maybe ryze I guess. I'm not sure about ADs, think teemo might beat you if you don't shut him down early, most others are just farming lanes)
Shen: You have to fight back and sometimes will just get zoned, you're going to struggle to the herp derp Q and auto hits when he feels like spam. Once you get like level 7 and aegis you're free farm though.
Renekton: Used to zone you hard, so you just sit at tower since he has to push if he wants to pressure you at all. Still probably heals enough that you can't try to out harass him since he always has more creeps. Jungle ganks are such a big threat that as long as you keep forcing him to heal on a whole wave he can't pressure you too far.
Teemo: As said earlier, unchaseable without whither, and has blind and move quick every time you cast it, only way to win is to just be so much stronger 1v1 and keep bush zoning/whither-->owning him but I'm not sure this works.
Irelia: You have to pressure her early while her heal sucks compared to hers. There's a level range around 4-8 where she is a huge threat to you and you aren't tanky enough, and want to harass her off creeps, and if she gets wits end you pretty much have to swap lanes no matter what. Very winnable if you are better though.
Jarvan: Way stronger than you until like 7, but he can't harass that much due to mana constrictions. All depends how agressive he is and if you're able to punish it
Easy lanes: In all cases you mostly just free farm.
Singed: Farm and don't stand in the purple stuff. He can try to fling spam you but if you don't let him piss you off he can't do anything. Biggest problem is last hitting waves pushed to tower.
Malphite: Get 5 potions at the stand and try to keep his shield down if he ever tries to do more than go oom while you heal on creeps.
Chogath: Biggest threat is losing cs to tower, unless he tries to be really agressive with vorpal spikes auto attacks but you just need to be careful, if cho loses cs he can be zoned out of lane because he doesn't have enough hp.
Unsure: Mundo/Morde/APs/ADs
Also, I basically never use spirit fire in lane. It's much easier to last hit under tower when most of the creeps are full health anyway, and having the less CD on Q helps this, while you need to get like fast level 3 on E to 1 shot fully pushed waves, burning like 1/4 of your mana and not getting any Q farm. I save mana to whither them if they try to do some kind of harassment that leaves them vulnerable. I get like 3 points in Q and then I'm never sure where to put the points. If its like jarvan you get maxed E so it's the watchmen prison scene when he locks you in with him with ult, and you hit E and R.
I imagine hp regen pendant+1 pot -->philo stone-->boots 1-->null magic-->ruby-->aegis is great against APs. Against AD based cloth+5 is still great, perhaps dshield if they can't harass you early but can later. I used to run ghost/TP but am thinking about Cleanse/TP or Ghost/cleanse. I've given up on exhaust, since mostly you are more than fast enough with imba 325 base movement speed+quickness+TF and later force of nature, and have whither anyway. It's usually CC like morg lux that they spam on you that gives you problems. TP is essential in a hard lane and helps you backdoor towers like a beast//farm lanes like a beast and TP to help your team. But in an easy lane but they have a kiting team ghost/cleanse might be good.
Thinking about taking defensive 0/21/9 but it seems like you only gain 48 hp and 4% less damage taken and you're giving up 6% cdr, -25% summoners, 3 mp5 and 3% move speed. If you really need hp I'd probably get dshield and hp quints that puts you up to like 700 from 500 at level 1 anyway.
BTW This guide is really outdated. It says mid>bot>top and most of the time you shouldn't be playing nasus if you aren't getting top. I did a lot of jungle nasus but I'll need to reevaluate it. I think it was like the second choice if you didn't get top and it's not as bad as people think. Bot lane should probably only be done with someone like taric with ridiculous synergy. (2 beefy melee, 1 stun, 1 slow, 2x armour reductions,(EW) 2x nukes (QW) wtfff). Mid is never ideal unless it's vs an AP who doesn't have a lot of pushing power but can't kill you. Any AD can harass you to death in a short lane, and you have to do so much running around in mid lane that you lose so much farm.
Remember roughly that 1 cs with Q = 2 cs without. So if you're pushing with spirit fire you lose a lot of virtual farm. It's a rough approximation because normally you build damage with Q and tank with gold but if you could somehow convert a Q into gold and built it into AD this would be about correct. 3 AD on your Q for about 20 gold vs 1 ad for about 40 gold on all your attacks.
Spirit fire is easily Nasus' worst ability. He'd be totally unviable without his Q, W and R, but E just helps and is only really strong if you have something to lock someone down like malz/ww/jarvan ult or similar. It's a help when you W someone and get that armour reduction, and great in lvl 1 fights but its not your bread and butter.
Jungle
Trolling purposes only. He can't clear creeps quickly until lvl 5 and has a weak gank.
I can write a jungle nasus guide later, but I need to retest it after being competent with higher tier junglers. The Q farming is slowed but you can get about 200-250 by around 25 minute and 300-35 around 35. It's not amazing but its similar to a hard lane solo top, and it's hard to compete with a solo lane anyway. You have to start stone golems-->wraiths-->wolves-->blue to allow you to get 24-30 points on siphon strike starting from level 1. It also gives you a weirdly timed level 3 gank if you take W after wolves and then do blue. Normally you take a second point in E and then max Q with 1 point in W after level 4. Your gank isn't the strongest but its a very good support gank (like nunu but the slow isn't spammable), in that if you gank top or bottom with someone like say irelia or mf the slow and armour reduction helps them rape the other guy ridiculously fast and you still get your Q and your redbuff slow but you can't solo gank like the other junglers can. Your dragon control is good with ultimate up and red and blue buffs are really good on Nasus. Your jungle clear speed is fast starting from level 2 because E+Q = win. Most important thing is to maximize your Q farm while keeping up with clear speed and ganks.
Also, the guide says aegis isn't worth it. Aegis is the best item per cost in the game period, and Nasus is a fantastic carrier of it. Get it basically every game unless a support wants to get it.
Thoughts/Contributions?
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about Malzahar:
I answered the queston "how do you beat Malzahar" with "you cant beat Malzahar"
I didnt say you lose to him, its kinda a draw
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Nasus lanes are kinda weird in that if both players can farm if they want to you win, while if neither can farm you lose. This is because you basically gain double the value from CS when you Q them.
"Switch lanes" usually implies desperate circumstances, like someone coming to lane vs you with wits end.
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Every time anyone ever runs AD Reds and ArPen Quints, God kills a puppy. Fucking stop running strictly inferior setups. If you really want that AD (you shouldn't on Nasus), get it on your quints, they're strictly better efficiency than the Reds.
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Riot knows this too, and for people like me with no champs and no IP, the cheaper cost was worth it. 
I'm working on it, haha. I'm only really running AD because of my Udyr right now. It's definitely not optimal at all. I feel so weak having only 500 health at level 1, and having Arpen quints or movement speed might be something to play around with as well.
I did some analysis on Randuins vs Frozen heart. They have the same gold cost now, if we say that the mana doesn't matter. (and otherwise frozen heart wins, sometimes it matters in long teamfights though)
The extra CDR and armour is worth more than the hp+ hp regen, but the randuins passive+active is significantly better if you assume the ranged carry/other physicals really hate you. (They usually do, its the biggest thing that kills you, AP damage from the AP carry with void staff can be a big threat as well of course).
I think it comes down to:
If you don't need mercs, get CDR boots+Randuins with a fast HoG.
If you need mercs, get frozen heart for sure.
The glacial shroud is the most important part if you want some armour and CDR before trinity. Phage zeal and sheen are all so good on him though, I'd probably just get a chain mail.
Items are starting to get very limited in my mind.
Early game: Philo stone/HoG if necessary, otherwise mercs/aegis/sheen.
Magic resist: Mercs, negatron, force of nature
Armour: Frozen heart, randuins. Thornmail when appropriately tanky and vs farmed auto attacker.
Health: Warmogs, maybe sunfire but I don't like it.
Damage: Trinity, Last whisper
Aegis for all 3, of course.
I really don't like banshee/Guardian angel. They are fantastic on carries because with guardian angel, the death timer is like a free zonyas and 750 health on an item that gives armour/mres is insane, and carries can do a lot with just 750 health. On nasus if you get caught and they can focus you for free then having a nasus with 750 health isn't all that useful anyway. Banshees is similar, not only on your itemizing for MORE mana (300 from trinity, high base level up stats, 500 from frozen heart), but the spell sheild is mostly just good for carries so you can't get that key CC spell on him. It's so easy to knock it off a nasus anyway. I'd just get a negatron+Giants belt and build Warmogs and then get your FoN. You can have a negatron and the components of warmogs ready for the price of a banshee veil.
Instinct tells me sunfire is bad. I'm not sure about this though.
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I honestly don't really like getting Last Whisper on Nasus. I run Armor Pen Quints and Reds, and I would rather have a Ghostblade than a LW. I look at it this way:
Marks: 15 Armor Pen
Quints: 10 Armor Pen
SpFire: 40 Armor Pen
At 65 Armor Pen, you're reducing the armor of most carries, supports, and mages to next to nothing already. Reducing the leftover armor by 40% isn't usually that meaningful. It still means a lot to tanks, but why would you be targetting tanks as Nasus?
With a ghostblade, you're gettin CDR, some crit, and a nice active to help you tear apart those carries / supports.
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You can already like 3 shot carries supports and mages anyway. Getting last whisper is just for your last item when you need to kill people with 150-200 armour or more.
When you're really farmed as nasus people basically just stay away from you and its very hard to catch up and you can waste your whither just to gap close and you can spend most of a teamfight just chasing down one person. This is not an effective way to pull your weight in a teamfight. Ghostblade gives pretty average stats aside from the cdr and armpen, and you should already have 40% cdr at this point. The 20% movement speed active is nice but you are already pretty fast so you have to worry about diminishng returns.
I'm not saying its terrible, but when theres 2, possibly 3 (jungler, tank, ryze, even some supports can get a lot of armour, not that you should EVER chase a support as nasus) very tanky people you get last whisper, and when there isn't, I guess ghostblade can work but its really not much better than shurelyas. But I'll have to test it more.
Crit is deceptively bad on nasus, because you see huge numbers on your Q crits but in reality the bonus damage from CS doesn't crit, the reason the crits are so big is because Q does so much damage in the first place.
Most comps that get raped by nasus involve a lot of melees especially ones like yi and panth who aren't that tanky, add a LW and the list expands to everyone that doesn't have a long range. When you have LW you can rape a tank and then switch to a ranged carry who gets in range.
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1. by deceptively bad, do you mean just as good as it is on most characters? might as well say the same thing about Sheen, it's deceptively bad because the sheen bonus doesn't factor in your Q.
2. wtf, how are you maxing your CDR without ghostblade? Oh that's right, you neglect Merc Treads on a Melee character with no gap closer. Real build. Wait, that still won't get you max CDR unless you, oh that's right, you also spec CDR blues over MRes and advocate blue pot. Did I mention real build? If not. Real. Build.
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Yeah right now its looking like frozen heart+blue pot+4 cdr blues+6% masteries. Hopefully you can convince a support into getting soul shroud if you're getting aegis now. Bluepot is only good for CDR which sucks.
It's slightly worse than just as good as any other champ because you don't have as much active damage time as some other tanky dps and you do most of your damage with Q.
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On April 22 2011 01:42 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah right now its looking like frozen heart+blue pot+4 cdr blues+6% masteries. Hopefully you can convince a support into getting soul shroud if you're getting aegis now. Bluepot is only good for CDR which sucks.
It's slightly worse than just as good as any other champ because you don't have as much active damage time as some other tanky dps and you do most of your damage with Q.
how about this... how about we don't waste any money on blue pots nor any space on CDR runes and instead we get ghostblade because it's just a really good item anyway and synergizes with your kit. how about that?
what? Other than people with steroids stronger than your ult (read: very very few and basically none of the "tanky dps/bruiser/whateverpeoplecallthemthesedays"), no one really gets more from crit than you. crit synergizes with the extra damage from your ult and it's not like you spend more time than most doing things other than attacking (2 spells with fairly long CDs and fairly long cast animation). Not to mention you get some hidden attack speed buffs from using your Q right after attacking since it resets your auto-attack timer.
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How about getting a brutalizer at some point and finish it last?
Kinda feel like investing 2687 after already spending 4k on trinity is a lot before you get lots of tank items.
It always seems like I'm doing most of my damage from my Q, but if its with ulti up vs someone like vlad where I'm leeching 150 AD it could just be me not paying attention, I have to get LoL replay and look at some of my games once I get back to my good PC.
You have a very good point on bluepot since its 250 for 10% cdr and the CDR portion of kindlegem costs only 375g.
Always good to get insight from someone who isn't awful at this game, lol. Don't know why I didn't think about that before. I also felt bad losing magic resist for the 4 CDR/lvl runes. Although I didn't miss merc threads except against like lux or morgana.
I still get so much power from last whisper, but have enough trouble fitting it as last item as I need to sell aegis, I'd much prefer to have soul shroud on X and last whisper than getting ghostblade and being a lot weaker against tanks, but then again If I use spirit fire properly maybe it doesn't make a huge difference once I get the arpen reds with the quints and the ghostblade pen on top of spirit fire.
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I would just grab early bruta + sheen + aegis in whatever order and then get some tankiness before upgrading to ghostblade or triforce.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
ghostblade on nasus is boss....as a 6th item
trinity + merc treads then fill in defense for mid game with 3 items then finish end-game rounding out your build
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On April 22 2011 02:54 Brees wrote:
ghostblade on nasus is boss....as a 6th item
trinity + merc treads then fill in defense for mid game with 3 items then finish end-game rounding out your build
This.
Nasus build = Trundle build (- Wriggle's) = Irelia build = a lot of friggin builds.
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I'm in pretty much complete agreement with Mogwai, as you can see from my post.
As he mentioned, crit is just as good, if not better, on Nasus as every other character in the game.
The reason, in my opinion, that it is much better on Nasus than others is his ability to cause burst damage. Just like in WoW arenas, burst damage wins games.
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In WoW arena burst was so good because healing was so powerful, you could keep doing the same thing until the RNG favoured you. In LoL it's not the same.
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With the new investigator Mogwai find (the unraveling of Philosopher's stone), how do you guys approve of my Nasus playstyle:
-Solo Top, ghost/TP
-Start regen pendant + 1 HP pot
-Go back when you have enough for Philosophers stone. Build: Philo ->boots 1 -->sheen-->merc-->aegis-->glacial shroud/negatrons-->finish Bveil/Frozen heart-->Finish triforce-->Haven't quite settled on the last item. GA/Thornmail if they're physical heavy, Sunfire/Warmogs otherwise? maybe GB is pretty good, gotta test that out.
TL;DR: Regen pendant into Philo rush, good idea or not?
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On May 23 2011 00:55 BouBou.865 wrote:
With the new investigator Mogwai find (the unraveling of Philosopher's stone), how do you guys approve of my Nasus playstyle:
-Solo Top, ghost/TP
-Start regen pendant + 1 HP pot
-Go back when you have enough for Philosophers stone. Build: Philo ->boots 1 -->sheen-->merc-->aegis-->glacial shroud/negatrons-->finish Bveil/Frozen heart-->Finish triforce-->Haven't quite settled on the last item. GA/Thornmail if they're physical heavy, Sunfire/Warmogs otherwise? maybe GB is pretty good, gotta test that out.
TL;DR: Regen pendant into Philo rush, good idea or not?
This is basically what I do with solo top. Except:
-You probably shouldn't be getting philo stone if you're getting mercs. Either get CDR boots, and philo stone, or just get mercs and a brutalizer. Philo stone is good in lane but overall not THAT useful, and some lanes don't need it that much.
-Banshee veil in melee is meh. It's really easy to break your spell veil before you even think of initiating and all you really gain for the extra 2000 gold is 400 health. You pretty much always want a force of nature or a QSS. You have more than enough mana after glacial shroud+sheen.
Final build should be something like:
Frozen Heart+Warmogs+FoN+Triforce+Boots+Thornmail/GA/LW/GB
Boots can be CDR or mercs, you can kinda drop mercs if you feel you can get away with it or otherwise drop your brutalizer or finish ghostblade.
I'm thinking that you should make a giants belt before finishing FoN, but I don't think you'll have the space. Your ult puts you over 3k hp anyway though.
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On May 23 2011 02:36 Slayer91 wrote:
-You probably shouldn't be getting philo stone if you're getting mercs. Either get CDR boots, and philo stone, or just get mercs and a brutalizer. Philo stone is good in lane but overall not THAT useful, and some lanes don't need it that much.
Philo is basically free and gives great lane sustainibility. I don't see how can advocate against it lol. Like with 1/2 philo you can force the other player to just afk farm against you, which is exactly what you want because you get so frikkin much out of afk farming as Nasus. Also at what point do you get Bruta?
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After either just before or after glacial, usually before sheen. I don't think sheen is all that amazing until you get a lot of CDR because of the wasted stats.
I guess philo is good, I dunno, guess I should use it more. No reason not to on nasus.
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So, in what part of the game does using E to farm creeps and getting 1-2 Q procs in better than just using Q to farm?
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You use E in really hard lanes or 1v2 lanes - say, if you're against a Vlad, you probably want to take 2 levels of Q, 1 level of W, then max E so by 9 you can still get creeps without being zoned. Also, if you're playing a more roam-heavy style of Nasus (heresy, I know.) or you're getting put into teamfights in the lane a lot, consider getting more ranks of E as well.
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Actually vlad isn't all that scary early game. You can just start regrowth, get a philo and then some magic resist. You actually hurt him quite a bit if he gets too agressive with your whither+hit him and Q him.
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On May 25 2011 05:56 Slayer91 wrote:
Actually vlad isn't all that scary early game. You can just start regrowth, get a philo and then some magic resist. You actually hurt him quite a bit if he gets too agressive with your whither+hit him and Q him.
and then you max E so that when he hits level 9 and enters ezwin homode you can still kill things and get cs.
I don't know how it actually plays out maybe if you get neg cloak on first b you can still farm and dont afraid but that's the reasoning behind it.
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You max E regardless because:
1. With max e you can throw down e and then 1 hit all caster minions to quickly farm/clear waves
2. Your mana pool is too small earlygame to keep up with a maxed q's cooldown anyway + extra q damage from lvls is negligible
3. Maxed E by the time of teamfights gives you a lot of utility with all of the reduced armor you will do against the opponents team
Really you don't want to use E much in laning. It helps in 1v2 though or against champs that just are pushing the lane hard. Your mana is for your q, usually, because you want a farmed q by teamfights. It's generally later in laning when you already have lvls + more items that you can keep up with a higher q lvl, and at that point champs can usually push lanes really quickly so E comes into more use there to stop the push.
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Regarding maxing E: We had this discussion a few pages back; answer is that it depends.
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The only situation I can think of where you shouldn't is like when you're bot with a soraka vs a lane combo that can't harass you enough, so you can just max q, be fed mana by soraka, and just afk farm all day.
edit: or vs a really weak lane where you can solo and shrug off any harass, so just get a chalice and afk farm. 1v2 you will need SF for the fast creep clearing so can't lvl q. ;o
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I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be playing nasus if you have to max E and farm Q with an 8 second cooldown. If you can't afford the mana of level 3 or 4 Q then how come you can afford to use E on every wave?
I'd much prefer to farm Q under tower than to push my lane and go out of mana for probably a similar cs.
You can pretty much spam Q at level 3 and not have mana problems. 5 Is still fine if you're pushing hard enough to go back every once and in a while.
E is easily nasus' worst skill. It does decent damage if you have like jarman on your team but usually its just to add extra punch to that Q you hit when they are withered and can't get out in time.
Nasus would be worthless without Q, W, and R, but E isn't really a big deal. You can get some levels in it vs say, jarman, so he can't ult you and survive, but usually I just don't worry about it too much. I almost never use it in lane because it pushes it and you don't get Q farm.
Usually Nasus is pretty bad unless you have a really farmed Q OR the team is some kind of melee heavy team which nasus happens to rape really hard.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
you never use E in lane unless you get into a fully committed fight
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On May 23 2011 00:55 BouBou.865 wrote:
With the new investigator Mogwai find (the unraveling of Philosopher's stone), how do you guys approve of my Nasus playstyle:
-Solo Top, ghost/TP
-Start regen pendant + 1 HP pot
-Go back when you have enough for Philosophers stone. Build: Philo ->boots 1 -->sheen-->merc-->aegis-->glacial shroud/negatrons-->finish Bveil/Frozen heart-->Finish triforce-->Haven't quite settled on the last item. GA/Thornmail if they're physical heavy, Sunfire/Warmogs otherwise? maybe GB is pretty good, gotta test that out.
TL;DR: Regen pendant into Philo rush, good idea or not?
I've really enjoyed doing the philo stone opening. It's everything Nasus needs early game, whether he's forced to spam E to protect his tower, or he has the freedom to pump Q and power it up. Plus, having the flexibility to choose between Eleisa's Miracle + Ninja Tabi, and Shurelya's Reverie + Mercury Treads really opens the character's mid-game up.
Commenting on your item build: Personally, I've been getting Aegis before Sheen since, imo, Nasus can't really assist in ganks too well, but it's important he survives them and doing so without popping your ult is important-- especially since having Teleport instead of Exhaust or Cleanse makes you an easier target than a Doran's Shield Nasus. Agree?
I don't really like Banshee's Veil on Nasus, and prefer Force of Nature or Quicksilver Sash instead. Is there a good argument for Banshee's Veil on Nasus?
Imo, Frozen Heart is situational and shouldn't be considered core. If you're exclusively picking Nasus vs Phys DPS teams (makes sense), it's definitely an option, but I think I prefer Randuin's Omen as a source for armor and attack speed slow. It's a bit more expensive tho, and FH comes with mana and more CDR.... Thoughts? Vs more AP heroes, neither are something I'd get.
Triforce is obviously good for him.
On the occasions I don't need a 6th tanky item, I like getting Stark's. It compliments your role as Aegis holder pretty well, and it builds on the benefits that Triforce and your Passive gives you. I dunno if you've considered it, but to me it seems good on Nasus.
Thornmail/GA are options for 6th items that I haven't had the chance to test, so this is just theorycrafting: Thornmail seems good vs lategame phys DPS, but by the time you're buying your 6th item, I'm not sure GA would make much of a difference. You revive without your ult and they can just focus you down again. You can get better MR from Quicksilver Sash (which would also save you from the CC that's allowing you to get focused), and Thornmail seems a better deterrent to phys DPS than the 60-something armor you get from GA. Wondering if anyone with experience has some opinions on these.
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CDR boots>Ninja tabi pretty much always I'd say. 15% cdr is a lot harder to get than some ranged AD survivability (e.g randuins/thornmail).
Thornmail I've found very effective lategame when ranged carries are the things that can kill you. GA If its a situation where one fight will change the game and it's not happening yet, but consider LW if you find you need damage to kill tanky guys because diving carries will get you killed anyway. It makes you do MUCH more damage and also lifesteal more.
I also almost always sell aegis, better to let your support get it really lategame if your team really needs it. My end game items end up to be:
CDR Boots/Randuins/Triforce/Warmogs/FoN+1 more depending on what I need.
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Morello "Agreed. We're working on him pretty soon, we're evaluating cool ways to do those Nasus/Veigar farm skills and make the character consistent.
That mechanic has to go, at least in its uncapped state; it makes characters unbalancable and too many best case/worst case differences."
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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It's ok, as long as they make his E teleport you to the centre of where you cast it.
It's a pretty terrible skill atm anyway.
They're gonna just make it another tear of the godess though which sucks. =/
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On June 16 2011 23:28 Ruken wrote:
Morello "Agreed. We're working on him pretty soon, we're evaluating cool ways to do those Nasus/Veigar farm skills and make the character consistent.
That mechanic has to go, at least in its uncapped state; it makes characters unbalancable and too many best case/worst case differences."
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
oh god WHAT ARE YOU DOING RIOT
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On June 17 2011 00:09 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2011 23:28 Ruken wrote:
Morello "Agreed. We're working on him pretty soon, we're evaluating cool ways to do those Nasus/Veigar farm skills and make the character consistent.
That mechanic has to go, at least in its uncapped state; it makes characters unbalancable and too many best case/worst case differences."
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
oh god WHAT ARE YOU DOING RIOT
mmmm i'll be sad to see it go but I do kinda agree with what he says.
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On June 17 2011 01:11 sRapers_ValkS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 00:09 Iplaythings wrote:On June 16 2011 23:28 Ruken wrote:
Morello "Agreed. We're working on him pretty soon, we're evaluating cool ways to do those Nasus/Veigar farm skills and make the character consistent.
That mechanic has to go, at least in its uncapped state; it makes characters unbalancable and too many best case/worst case differences."
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
oh god WHAT ARE YOU DOING RIOT mmmm i'll be sad to see it go but I do kinda agree with what he says.
How? In what way is Nasus or Veigar OP.
In theory they can become the strongest champions in any game, in practicality they never ever do. Both are very mediocre champions.
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It's not that they're OP, it's that either they can be absolutely terrible, ok, or most overpowered in game based on how high they can stack their Q. It's hard to balance.
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Nasus and Veigar are two of my favourite champs thanks to that mechanic. Would be a real shame to have it changed.
Whenever I play a tanky melee now, I take philo stone and go for Eleisa's and then usually tabi since I've been using a dodge set-up lately. It used to be mercs always pretty much but tenacity being introduced opens up some neat builds.
As for Q vs E, if I'm solo lane I'll usually max E and build a Warmog's relatively early on. Sometimes I'll add a second one. Seems to work well.
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On June 17 2011 01:33 Slayer91 wrote:
It's not that they're OP, it's that either they can be absolutely terrible, ok, or most overpowered in game based on how high they can stack their Q. It's hard to balance.
Honestly what is the last time you saw a Nasus get OP?
Nasus mostly strikes me as a champion that has suffered from being an old champion. If they released Nasus today he would probably have a blink skill to cover the distance.
He just gets kited so hard, even if you farm Q all day long it never gets to a point where i would call it OP.
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Well, theoretically if they buffed him to the point that with 300-400 in Q he would be balanced, there would still be strats like - pick any of the champions released in the last 6 months to totally deny him in lane - or - turtle all day and just wait for nasus to get 1000 in Q and carry the team -. So if they want to buff him they need to tweak the mechanic.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
cant deny nasus mid lane, people just need to stop going top with him. if they buff him ill lol hard
also you need to have a good sense of flanking, if your having trouble with nasus try playing singed. Its the same as nasus except a lot easier. You shouldnt be attacking head on with your team.
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There's no way you're going to get the +300 on Q by around 20 minutes that you should be getting vs a competent mid laner, they can basically harass you unpunished because of how short the lane is. I can't see it being a good idea at all.
Annie, malz, brand, vlad whatever else ap carries people play in mid can all deny you. Any ranged ad pwns you as well.
You're better off laning vs a melee who can't draw that much creep aggro+nasus aggro to deny you hard, but at least top vs an AP you can use brush and whither to stop them frmo harassing you all day.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
instead of theorycrafting you should just try it.
ive easily handled all the characters you just named, including teemo, corki, etc. ranged AD is probably the easiest
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I've laned mid vs a vlad who was suprisingly weak early on but you don't get the same free all day until 200 cs like you can top, with teleport to get you into crucial teamfights. I did ok mid but I didn't farm Q as much as I should be to make nasus a decent pick. He also don't give the same map control a brand/annie/malzhar gives in mid, so it seems a total waste to me.
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On June 17 2011 05:19 Brees wrote:
instead of theorycrafting you should just try it.
ive easily handled all the characters you just named, including teemo, corki, etc. ranged AD is probably the easiest
Despite my 72% winrate with Nasus and him being my main, a good corki can bully you around so hard that Nasus just isn't a good pick anymore. Maybe if the rest of their team screams 'PICK NASUS', but you won't have a good lane, at all. Same with Teemo.
How do you play these matchups, Brees?
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On June 17 2011 06:00 BouBou.865 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 05:19 Brees wrote:
instead of theorycrafting you should just try it.
ive easily handled all the characters you just named, including teemo, corki, etc. ranged AD is probably the easiest Despite my 72% winrate with Nasus and him being my main, a good corki can bully you around so hard that Nasus just isn't a good pick anymore. Maybe if the rest of their team screams 'PICK NASUS', but you won't have a good lane, at all. Same with Teemo. How do you play these matchups, Brees?
nasus has naturally high regen thanks to his lifesteal on the ever-growing Q, so you can just play passively while you farm Q
once you hit a point (it's hard to say when but you can just feel it), just wait for the opponent's cooldowns to go down, wither them, walk up and hit them with siphon strike. you'll do like 1/4 of their health and if they try to stand and fight you pop your ult and smash the shit out of them. ranged carries are really really easy for nasus. as with most melee dps, the only ranged carry i ever struggle with is boots-first TF because he can kite so easily with gold card and you'll never get a good shot on him
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
1-8-21
ghost/exhaust
armor pen/flat armor/flat mr for runes
health regen+hp pot start
Q/W/Q/E
hit things and watch as you regen any harass they can muster.
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On June 17 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:00 BouBou.865 wrote:On June 17 2011 05:19 Brees wrote:
instead of theorycrafting you should just try it.
ive easily handled all the characters you just named, including teemo, corki, etc. ranged AD is probably the easiest Despite my 72% winrate with Nasus and him being my main, a good corki can bully you around so hard that Nasus just isn't a good pick anymore. Maybe if the rest of their team screams 'PICK NASUS', but you won't have a good lane, at all. Same with Teemo. How do you play these matchups, Brees? nasus has naturally high regen thanks to his lifesteal on the ever-growing Q, so you can just play passively while you farm Q once you hit a point (it's hard to say when but you can just feel it), just wait for the opponent's cooldowns to go down, wither them, walk up and hit them with siphon strike. you'll do like 1/4 of their health and if they try to stand and fight you pop your ult and smash the shit out of them. ranged carries are really really easy for nasus. as with most melee dps, the only ranged carry i ever struggle with is boots-first TF because he can kite so easily with gold card and you'll never get a good shot on him
But what if the enemy just plays it proper? His lifesteal doesn't do much when each time you go for a last-hit the enemy proceeds to take off 20% off your HP.
Nasus needs to hit a minion to kill it. That might seem very normal but when you think about it it's actually pretty rare that a champion has to physically walk over and melee-hit champions as his only way of farming.
Nasus isn't quik, he can't blink, he doesn't have anything to let him move around. If you go to hit a minion then the enemy can fuck you over hard.
I really don't see how Nasus can lane against a strong or even a decent laner considering how hard you get punished every time you try to get a Q, let alone if you try to farm outside of that with auto-atacks.
His lifesteal really doesn't help him at all on the lane. Every time you try to take advantage of it the enemy will punish you so hard that you are forced to leave. Eventually your hp gets so low that you can't even cross the walk-up (Nothing > enemy minions) without being killed on the way there.
Some champions can even stand at a safe distance whilst Nasus goes insanely into their range. Ezreal for example. When Nasus isn't even close to Ezreal he is easily within 3 auto atacks and 2 Q's worth of range in the time that he walks up and back from the minion lane.
I really don't feel that Nasus works against players that know he can't fight back for the most part.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
if anyone wants to lane anything vs nasus against me, message me on inept im online now
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On June 17 2011 07:06 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote:On June 17 2011 06:00 BouBou.865 wrote:On June 17 2011 05:19 Brees wrote:
instead of theorycrafting you should just try it.
ive easily handled all the characters you just named, including teemo, corki, etc. ranged AD is probably the easiest Despite my 72% winrate with Nasus and him being my main, a good corki can bully you around so hard that Nasus just isn't a good pick anymore. Maybe if the rest of their team screams 'PICK NASUS', but you won't have a good lane, at all. Same with Teemo. How do you play these matchups, Brees? nasus has naturally high regen thanks to his lifesteal on the ever-growing Q, so you can just play passively while you farm Q once you hit a point (it's hard to say when but you can just feel it), just wait for the opponent's cooldowns to go down, wither them, walk up and hit them with siphon strike. you'll do like 1/4 of their health and if they try to stand and fight you pop your ult and smash the shit out of them. ranged carries are really really easy for nasus. as with most melee dps, the only ranged carry i ever struggle with is boots-first TF because he can kite so easily with gold card and you'll never get a good shot on him But what if the enemy just plays it proper? His lifesteal doesn't do much when each time you go for a last-hit the enemy proceeds to take off 20% off your HP. Nasus needs to hit a minion to kill it. That might seem very normal but when you think about it it's actually pretty rare that a champion has to physically walk over and melee-hit champions as his only way of farming. Nasus isn't quik, he can't blink, he doesn't have anything to let him move around. If you go to hit a minion then the enemy can fuck you over hard. I really don't see how Nasus can lane against a strong or even a decent laner considering how hard you get punished every time you try to get a Q, let alone if you try to farm outside of that with auto-atacks. His lifesteal really doesn't help him at all on the lane. Every time you try to take advantage of it the enemy will punish you so hard that you are forced to leave. Eventually your hp gets so low that you can't even cross the walk-up (Nothing > enemy minions) without being killed on the way there. Some champions can even stand at a safe distance whilst Nasus goes insanely into their range. Ezreal for example. When Nasus isn't even close to Ezreal he is easily within 3 auto atacks and 2 Q's worth of range in the time that he walks up and back from the minion lane. I really don't feel that Nasus works against players that know he can't fight back for the most part.
by your argument solo mid ww wouldnt work either,
l0l @ lifesteal not helping in lane. The real issue with nasus imo is the absurd mana costs on e and w, otherwise i think his design is just fine.
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Actually I think the important thing is that he's bad at doing "mid laner things" like roaming around and generally beasting the early-midgame, while he's very going at doing "solo top" things like farming all day and killing their tower and just beasting everyone once you get your core together, like irelia and nidalee for example do.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
so yea just laned nasus against malzahar mid in my most recent ranked game, 1800-2200 elo game and he was their first pick and i outfarmed him/he couldnt send me back with harass.
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On June 17 2011 07:28 Slayer91 wrote:
Actually I think the important thing is that he's bad at doing "mid laner things" like roaming around and generally beasting the early-midgame, while he's very going at doing "solo top" things like farming all day and killing their tower and just beasting everyone once you get your core together, like irelia and nidalee for example do.
Yeah, because having a superslow and armor shred make him a terrible midgame fighter...
even with an underfarmed q, sheen+ e makes q hits like a boss midgame.
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Aw, man... games when I build up 350+ bonus damage on Q are the only reason I play Nasus. I live for moments when early-game monsters like Annie complain in /all that it's not "fair" I can tear down a tower solo in 5 seconds. I gotta wait 30-40 minutes to get that strong and until then I get kited to shit, cry me a river about "fair"...
Only recent game I remember having significant trouble in lane with Nasus was a 2v2 versus Poppy&Maokai with a Kennen lanemate who didn't do much but try to steal my Q lasthits. Once they hit six they could towerdive me whenever Poppy's ult was up, and Maokai's E did a decent job keeping me off the creeps, especially with the threat of Poppy's E. I suppose that's when you just level up E and stay well away from Poppy. I'm low elo tho, so my experience on Nasus' lane viability isn't terribly worth mentioning. I don't really fear anyone 1v1 tho. Maybe Brand, since I'm not very good at dodging his spells yet. But in that case I just pump E and steal lasthits from my tower.
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On June 17 2011 08:49 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 07:28 Slayer91 wrote:
Actually I think the important thing is that he's bad at doing "mid laner things" like roaming around and generally beasting the early-midgame, while he's very going at doing "solo top" things like farming all day and killing their tower and just beasting everyone once you get your core together, like irelia and nidalee for example do. Yeah, because having a superslow and armor shred make him a terrible midgame fighter... even with an underfarmed q, sheen+ e makes q hits like a boss midgame.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about midgame (time). He was talking about earlygame roaming from mid-lane. Nasus doesn't really support the side lanes with ganks too well.
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On June 17 2011 09:06 Tadzio wrote:Aw, man... games when I build up 350+ bonus damage on Q are the only reason I play Nasus. I live for moments when early-game monsters like Annie complain in /all that it's not "fair" I can tear down a tower solo in 5 seconds. I gotta wait 30-40 minutes to get that strong and until then I get kited to shit, cry me a river about "fair"... Only recent game I remember having significant trouble in lane with Nasus was a 2v2 versus Poppy&Maokai with a Kennen lanemate who didn't do much but try to steal my Q lasthits. Once they hit six they could towerdive me whenever Poppy's ult was up, and Maokai's E did a decent job keeping me off the creeps, especially with the threat of Poppy's E. I suppose that's when you just level up E and stay well away from Poppy. I'm low elo tho, so my experience on Nasus' lane viability isn't terribly worth mentioning. I don't really fear anyone 1v1 tho. Maybe Brand, since I'm not very good at dodging his spells yet. But in that case I just pump E and steal lasthits from my tower.
nasus isnt terribly good in duo lanes unless he can get nearly all the farm. i used to think nasus kinda got edged out by other ppl for solo lanes, but now that support+ranged carry bot is such a popular and strong thing nowadays, i think nasus has much better consideration for a solo
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I was too. I consider early game any time before level 4 and the first jungle gank. After that your in midgame. Its just at convention that I have.
No one roams before then. Nasus can do it just as well after given he will have the full compliment of his skills.
In fact, compared to others, Nasus can do it better. His slow is on a lowish cd, highly reliable, and is almost guaranteed to get a kill with proper focus. Given the fact that his regen allows him to stay in lane almost indefinitely, Id say nasus can do a mid game roam better than most.
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On June 17 2011 07:06 zalz wrote:
But what if the enemy just plays it proper? His lifesteal doesn't do much when each time you go for a last-hit the enemy proceeds to take off 20% off your HP.
Nasus needs to hit a minion to kill it. That might seem very normal but when you think about it it's actually pretty rare that a champion has to physically walk over and melee-hit champions as his only way of farming.
Nasus isn't quik, he can't blink, he doesn't have anything to let him move around. If you go to hit a minion then the enemy can fuck you over hard.
I really don't see how Nasus can lane against a strong or even a decent laner considering how hard you get punished every time you try to get a Q, let alone if you try to farm outside of that with auto-atacks.
His lifesteal really doesn't help him at all on the lane. Every time you try to take advantage of it the enemy will punish you so hard that you are forced to leave. Eventually your hp gets so low that you can't even cross the walk-up (Nothing > enemy minions) without being killed on the way there.
Some champions can even stand at a safe distance whilst Nasus goes insanely into their range. Ezreal for example. When Nasus isn't even close to Ezreal he is easily within 3 auto atacks and 2 Q's worth of range in the time that he walks up and back from the minion lane.
I really don't feel that Nasus works against players that know he can't fight back for the most part.
negative to all above points, ghostrider
>if you're getitng pushed off the creeps SO hard that a single Q won't regen your harass taken, then
- build more defensively (i.e. i run armor yellows and mr blues, and a mix of HP and MS quints)
- max E instead, E a creepwave, walk to safety as the creeps melt
>nasus is actually extremely fast, and while he doesn't have a blink, he's got what amounts to a 5 second stun in wither, which is better than a blink in a 1v1 situation
>seriously, just get better is all i can say at this point. i don't know what you're doing wrong but there are several ways that you can negate harass:
- are you facing a skill-shot champion? approach the enemy creeps from behind your creepwave. ezreal's Q cannot hit you through creeps, boom, now ezreal's not a problem.
- are you facing a champion like caitlyn who can attack through creeps? dodge the SS or again approach from inside the creep wave so she's forced to push it.
- are you facing a champion with a farm skill like puddle? stay away from your creeps at all times so she has to decide whether to farm or harass with puddle. when it's on CD you're safe to snag a last hit or 2.
- are you trying to Q an enemy creep when your wave consists of only 1 creep and they've got 7? don't. you're a melee champ, you're going to take a ton of creep aggro and champ harass for that. play better.
- is your lane opponent sitting inside the creep wave or zoning you? call for a gank... KS the last hit with Q, +3 damage baby!
- if all of the above aren't working, delay your triforce for a defensive item first. grab a negatron or a chainmail with your first 750 and all of the sudden their harass will be much less effective. if they force you out of lane with 200 gold just buy 6 pots and now boom you can outlast anything and farm your triforce in 7 minutes
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On June 17 2011 06:33 Brees wrote:
1-8-21
ghost/exhaust
armor pen/flat armor/flat mr for runes
health regen+hp pot start
Q/W/Q/E
hit things and watch as you regen any harass they can muster.
I run this but still, morde/corki/malz harass me too hard if I try to get every last hit. Tips?
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On June 17 2011 10:21 BouBou.865 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 06:33 Brees wrote:
1-8-21
ghost/exhaust
armor pen/flat armor/flat mr for runes
health regen+hp pot start
Q/W/Q/E
hit things and watch as you regen any harass they can muster. I run this but still, morde/corki/malz harass me too hard if I try to get every last hit. Tips?
morde beats nasus, corki and malz i dont really know what to say except practice, these champs should give you no problem unless corki gets a crit at lvl 1-2 or something, they simply dont do enough damage/clear creeps fast enough to push your tower
try to stick to last hittng the melee minions as they have more hp to lifesteal off of and if they harass you from those they will get aggro'd, caster creeps should either be spirit fired if there in a large mob build up or go in for the last hit if you have superior creep numbers
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To be fair, Morde beats everyone in lane 1v1.
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On June 17 2011 12:24 Two_DoWn wrote:
To be fair, Morde beats everyone in lane 1v1.
Pretty sure ramble and worwix beat him at least.
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On June 22 2011 01:37 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 12:24 Two_DoWn wrote:
To be fair, Morde beats everyone in lane 1v1. Pretty sure ramble and worwix beat him at least.
What about iralia or jarman?
EDIT : Stupid iPod autocorrect tried to change jarman into Karnak and Harlan.
JARMAN CANNOT BE DENIED
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How is WW supposed to beat him? His Q doesn't heal off shields. Maybe if you somehow manage to fuck him up early and denie him from the brush with Q without him being able to generate shields but otherwise I can't imagine it.
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Well wait a few days and WW Q will heal off of shields, lol.
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Oh, well right now you just Q creeps and farm up while ignoring him and then call for ganks when he pushes and then rape him. I guess healing off shields might change something about it.
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On June 22 2011 01:51 Southlight wrote:
Amumu beats Morde.
I just.....I don't even. I added your solo lanemumu to the thread and everything and I STILL don't even.
It doesn't seem physically possible to me, even with a Philostone, especially if Morde has regen as well.
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you haven't seen the magic
Amumu takes 0 creepdamage, so he can fight morde in Morde's creepwave instead of in his creepwave where morde is strong. He also does a LOT of damage with tantrum, and he can stun morde (disables are a big deal against morde, since that's a few seconds when he can't generate shield).
There aren't many people that mumu loses to, actually.
Oh wait this is the nasus thread wtf
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Nasus thread so I don't wanna get too into it but as long as you get a PStone (so you don't run out of mana) his W DoT > Mord. Similar issue with Sion, whose shield gets plunked down by Amumu before exploding. Amumu loses to most ranged spellcasters though because they can kite and nuke him from afar, especially if they have good sustain (Ryze, Vlad, TF, etc.)
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On June 22 2011 01:47 Mogwai wrote:
Oh, well right now you just Q creeps and farm up while ignoring him and then call for ganks when he pushes and then rape him. I guess healing off shields might change something about it.
In my experience he can outdamage your Q at earlier levels if he just spams his shit. And you don't really can stop him from pushing to your tower, so the only way to win against is with some good jungle ganks.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://itsnothax.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Nasus1.jpg)
