[Champion] Shen - Page 9

On December 28 2011 08:25 Ryuu314 wrote:

Probably but I'll give him a chance first. I checked his posting history and as of April 2011 he was only summoner lvl 13. So he's prolly an over zealous nub but I'm more than willing to see what he has to say.

On December 28 2011 08:40 PhuxPro wrote:



Check his absolutely friendly and legit post history that does not harbor any sort of "trolling." (not even being sarcastic).
Honestly people use that word too much to make conflicts on their side seem calm and collected.

Just because someone has an idea that's out of touch with the main deal doesn't mean he's out to piss you all off. So pleeease just take a second to consider his ideas.

On December 28 2011 09:27 Psycho{Szerano wrote:


Ofc posting history in TL is SUCH an importance, the more posts you have the brighter you are right? Plus I've been lvl 30 for about 8-9 months now. The next thing I love how you pointed out that you wanted my elo, stats and everything else, as if elo makes the person. Lastly you've never even tried playing shen with c&d before, because for 1: it's better then farming with sunfire, the attack speed it provides means more frozen mallet procs and the crit from c&d acts like Ki strike with it's sub par damage (around 176 or so). Lastly because CC reduction is taken care of, you can get swiftness boots which means better chasing, better escaping AND with phase/ frozen mallet no escape.

As for this high horse crap, I'm not that type of guy. I can tell you now there are ALOT of champions I have no idea how to play however when I tell people about stuff I DO know about, they all of a sudden think of me as this little prick. Before you quote me again on ANYTHING I employ you to just TRY the build once. I'll sum it up here for you.

Start:
Boots x3 pot

grab phase/vamp secpter/c&d
grab swiftness boots to complete your core
grab chainvest and neg cloak since it's mid game, try to play safe until you have these.
finish frozen mallet
at some point feel free to convert your vamp into valor or even bildewater if you feel lulz.
chain vest into randuins/thorn
neg into force of nature always imo
This is build is completely situational, sometimes you will need phase early, sometimes you will need vamp early and sometimes you can get away with getting c&d for the easy farming early. It's all analytical and you must think carefully before buying.

But yes once you have tried my basic build I ask you come back and then trash it into the ground.

On December 28 2011 09:37 asianskill wrote:
This is a kind of a standard build besides your shitty boots of swiftness. I don't understand building the vamp specter that builds into nothingness.
The most optimal build is rushing HoG->Atmas->Building accordingly to team comp
You should almost never be rushing thornmail, practically a useless item. must work for sub 1k elo

p.s. it's phage not phase

On December 28 2011 09:54 sob3k wrote:
Swift boots make no sense at all on Shen...when are you ever having problems chasing? You have a dash taunt...Chen isn't bursty at all so the extra 2 autos you get in with swifts aren't going to do anything. Escaping is also super easy...you should like never be in bad situations alone as Shen and you can just dash through walls, be tanky and even port out if it gets really bad. Of all the heroes I am tempted to go swifts on...I have never ever even remotely felt like I wanted them on Shen.

Can you describe a situation why you would build swiftboots?

On December 28 2011 10:17 sob3k wrote:

DUDE, I'm totally gonna build gunblade on Shen! That's an awesome idea! The AP is cool for Q and ult (.75 ratio on Q, that's good), Shen always needs more AD, and the Active would be pretty sick and help him be more of a threat plus helping slow people and keep them away from da AD.

It's totally viable!

On December 28 2011 09:27 Psycho{Szerano wrote:


Ofc posting history in TL is SUCH an importance, the more posts you have the brighter you are right? Plus I've been lvl 30 for about 8-9 months now. The next thing I love how you pointed out that you wanted my elo, stats and everything else, as if elo makes the person.

On December 28 2011 10:17 sob3k wrote:
I'm sure your build "works", I've won many games with Shen stacking warmogs, but that doesn't mean that's a good or optimal build. Nobody here is going to believe your build is good unless you show us high level games where it works as you claim or if you show us that you are 2200elo.

On a side note

DUDE, I'm totally gonna build gunblade on Shen! That's an awesome idea! The AP is cool for Q and ult (.75 ratio on Q, that's good), Shen always needs more AD, and the Active would be pretty sick and help him be more of a threat plus helping slow people and keep them away from da AD.

It's totally viable!

On December 28 2011 08:48 sob3k wrote:
I'm so exited about these buffs, I love Shen and have pretty solid success playing him with 1500-1800 elo players, these buffs will mostly be buffs to his laning though, which doesn't really solve the problem of him being ignored later.

Dagger buff: huge sustain buff, not gonna do much in fights
Shield buff: help a ton in 1v1 but never had a problem taking damage in teamfights anyway so it's not too much help
Dash buff: this one is very nice for teamfighting, duration is great and more energy
Passive buff: the percent is nice but not huge, the minion activation is huge, but only for lanIng when you are gonna be engaging in the middle of the wave.

We will see how this works out. He will definitely become a laning beast, he already is a very strong top...but not sure if this will help his teamfighting too much. Still gonna play him a ton. He's the only tank who can literally peel an entire team off of your squishies. And people forget how absolutely bananas his ult is and only try to use it at the very last second to save people...

Plus that passive buff is gonna make me feel so much better building him 5mogs atmas

On December 28 2011 10:24 Psycho{Szerano wrote:


Ok don't use my build whatever, I can't believe this community is so bad it won't even bother trying out a build before critiquing it. It's sad but it's the world we live in I guess, also the gun blade part is like the very LAST item on your shopping list so you'll almsot never get it but it does help more then you think.

I'll be honest here, I'm not a top elo player, I don't have 5k wins and over 2k elo purely with shen. I'm just a meager little 900 elo kid with no dreams and 427 normal wins. I have no idea what shen is capable of nor do I know what is optimal because everyone knows if the math works, then the build works, if the math don't work then the build don't work. let's ignore the fact this build has near 100% synergy and the only thing you'd lose out in trying the build is time but alas time is much too important for these 5k + elo players. Thanks for pubstomping a no body, I'm sure you have better things to do.

On December 28 2011 10:24 Ryuu314 wrote:

Posting history isn't everything but it does show a good amount of background. The post in question that I'm refering to.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169180&currentpage=3#59
You said you were lvl 13 in April this year. It reinforces what you say about bein lvl 30 for 8 months. Not sure why you're picking on that. Furthermore, as much as people like to complain about elo hell and all that shit, your elo, with a generous ~100 point variance, is generally a very very good indicator of your skill level and understanding of the game. That's why people like Smash and Loci's opinions are generally more highly valued than other posters who's elo is low/middle range.

Now to actually critique your build:
Phage into Frozen Mallet is a good idea and it's solid. Powers your passive and gives you more cc.
Vamp scepter can be okay for sustain and I personally have been toying with the idea of rushing/grabbing Starks on most top laners so no problem with that.
The other tank options are quite standard and are pretty good as well.

The biggest issue I, and most other critics, have with your build is the Boots of Swiftness and C&D. As Shen, especially with Frozen Mallet, you have absolutely no problem sticking to your target. Swifties are thus useless; especially when your build builds Shen as a support/tank. Merc treads or tabis provide much more survivability than swifties and are more useful for a tanky champ. You also say that swifties make it so you can chase shit down easier so missing taunt is more forgivable. Well here's the thing, you shouldn't be missing taunt in the first place. If you're missin taunts you just need to play better. Getting suboptimal items won't help you. That's kinda why Manamune went out of favor on the vast majority of champs that used to use it. Misplaying your champ isn't an excuse to get suboptimal item builds.

Your reasons for buildin C&D are cc reduction, more attack speed which means more farming and more Frozen Mallet procs, and the crit for a damage boost. Now, you should be building merc treads for your cc reduction first of all. The power of merc treads is just too good to pass up; that magic resist is too valuable for a tanky champ like Shen. Secondly, your reasoning of more aspd = more farming and more Frozen Mallet procs is flawed logic. No one builds Sunfire on Shen anymore; Sunfire is a bad item in general after all the nerfs, espeically compared to other items out there. More attack speed =/= better farming; sure you attack creeps faster, but the gain from that is neglible. You're still going to have issues with farming as Shen due to lack of creep clearing abilities regardless of how much aspd you have. Additionally, Frozen Mallet procs lasts for 2.5 seconds. If you can't hit a target that's being slowed by 40% every 2.5 seconds you're doing it wrong. If you want more damage, instead of investing ~1.5k into c&d, you're better off building an Atma's which gives you more tank, more damage, and comparable amounts of crit.

Heck, if you really really want mvspd and aspd and crit chance get Zeal, which is much cheaper than swifties+c&d, more cost effective, and can build into Triforce, which isn't half bad on Shen.

Just because a build works for you doesn't mean it's optimal. At suboptimal levels of play you can get away with suboptimal builds. I've gone pure AP shen and had some success with that; doesn't mean AP shen is #1 shen build (altho Rylais should be core on Shen imoimo). I try out your swifties+c&d build, but I don't expect much from it tbh.

EDIT: Look, we're not trying to discourage you. Low elo players can and have had some pretty neat ideas from time to time. That's kinda how Mordekaiser became near perma-ban status at high elo before his nerfs. It was a trickle-up effect of sorts. The issue is when you post a build that has glaring flaws, we're going to point them out. Unless you can offer good, solid, undebatable evidence/proof that your build is #1, we're going to be critical.

On December 28 2011 10:36 sob3k wrote:
TL is gonna be rough for you bro

On December 28 2011 10:31 Ryuu314 wrote:

Iunno if all those buffs are as neglible as you make 'em seem.

Q buff is 2% of maximum hp per hit. That's a lot dude...especially since it triggers on spells, not just autos. Which means you tag a target with your vorpal blade and everyone attacking it regens ~1-2% of their hp per second as they focus that target -.-;
Shield buff is kinda meh imo
Taunt buff is pretty big like you said
Passive buff is a 50% damage increase before factoring in the reduction in cooldown from minions...how is that not huge...>.>

EDIT: @ Psycho{Szerano: I don't think sob3k was bein sarcastic about gunblade. It's actually a neat idea considering how well Shen scales with AP and the active is good on anybody.

On December 28 2011 10:42 Psycho{Szerano wrote:


Ok finally a REAL critic *cracks knuckles*

Firstly I ONLY have mordekaiser on my EU account hence that post saying I was lvl 13. I left EU wehn I was lvl 8 to try out US servers and I stayed there until lvl 30 in which case I switched back to EU. If you want to believe it or not thats totally up to you I understand if you think that's a joke. Now moving on,

First of all is the boots, yes yes I know there can be better options other there especially tabis but there is a reason I grab swiftness boots, it's because I usually don't have frozen mallet when picking boots, usually it's mid game and I have lvl 1 boots, phage, vamp and c&d so I have to get my next teir of boots otherwise I'd be too slow. Thus the swiftness boots which with phage works really well. As for missing taunt I only miss maybe one taunt in an entire game? HOwever most of the time because I'm such a low elo player(aka NOOB) my teammates are....blind when it comes to landing stuns to most times they get away (in normal games too) even with phage they end up being able to run away before we eventually kill them.

As for the optimal part, I never said ANYTHING about being optimal, I did say I mastered shen but meh I admit that was a step to far, however I am good with shen, the main driving point is that this build has alot of synergy but in no way do I consider it fully optimal. As for the farming part, I've been seeing alot of shens get sunfires so yeah that's why I brought that up. For the zeal and trinity, yeah I thought about it a lot of times and I really liked the damage but I noticed that getting it is a hassle, I don't know maybe it's just me? Farm comes by hard for shen so I looked at which items would be within the 1k per item and 2.5kish range to complete and this is what I discovered, yes you can get trinity to replace the c&d and yes you can get cc boots but I find the extra mobility to die for when it comes to shen. And I'm glad your going to try it out, if you come back and say it's still bad I'd gladly step away from this argument.

On December 28 2011 10:49 Ryuu314 wrote:
Instead of getting C&D, you can grab a zeal, which leaves you with ~400 gold left over to build towards tier 2 boots OR you can use that ~1.5k to build towards frozen mallet. Honestly, c&d and swifities are just really bad items in general x]. Those slots and gold is just much better being spent elsewhere. Phage also procs the slow a decent amount so keeping up with enemies shouldn't be too hard. I'd invest in movespeed quints if the lack of mspd is really noticeable for you. Mvspd quints are good on everybody anyways lol. Triforce is a very hard item to get, especially on Shen who has shitty farming capabilities. But again, if mvspd, aspd, and crit % is really that important to you, you're much much better off getting a zeal and leaving it while you complete other items than shelling out ~2k+ for swifites+c&d. Especially since swifties+c&d are dead end items, whereas zeal has late game options.

On December 28 2011 10:57 Psycho{Szerano wrote:



Oh funny thing, I don't have JACK when it comes to runes, I like have all teir 1 and I use this build and still win with a impressive k/d/a so maybe because you have those mvspd quints it feels better with cc boots. As for me I'm basically playing shen without runes. I can put my ign here if you want to see for youself but I'm speaking honestly here. I have only 2 teir 3 runes lol. But umm as for dead end items yeah they are however I find it wierd that despite them being dead end items I can't get enough farm to actually have access gold, most games I hardly have the build completed and I'm 2/4/19 with the enemy nexus destoryed. Oh well all I can say is try it yourself becuase it works for me! almost every person I have beaten had full teir 3 runes so it goes to show it's got some merit...if you don't think so if you need me to prove anything at all I wouldn't mind playing a game or two with you to prove it...