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I just picked him up again to see how his buffs play out. Played him top against udyr and some other opponents I dont remember. Didn't have any formidable opponents so far though. His early game strength feels alot better again. In the couple games I played him I had no trouble zoneing others out of the lane. The additional damage and sustain on Q is quite alot considering I could straight up bully, outsustain an udyr (he didnt play well though so iam not sure what it is worth but it just felt strong.)
I even built stuff that is not recommended here. Got rilays and sunfire cape. I actually think both items are decent but I'am very uncertain of how to build him yet.
The major downside on shen for me is his very slow farm and pushing speed and the general lack of AoE damage, so paying that additional 800 gold felt right. AP items like rilays are at least not bad considering his low cooldowns and ratios. He certainly does'nt permaslow but the lack of spammable CC can be solved by it.
What I have thought the most about is what to build as MR. Since shen naturally autoattacks alot I think wit's end might be quite strong. With vorpal blade he heals for about the same amount as warwick does on higher levels and during the early game it is even more if you level it fast. So for the same reasoning as warwick gets wit's end as his core MR item I would think that it also works on shen.
As for wota/gunblade: I'am not a huge fan of the idea but never tried it. I didnt have much problem with sustain early on. Mb it can work as a occasional sixth or fifth item? Just not a fan of (almost) purely offensive items on bruisers, especially if they dont have any kind of burst.
The Idea I like the most I read in the past few (after buff) posts here is trinity force, since he now has an insanely high base damage and damage/lvl gain. So building around trinity could make alot of sense. But then the main question I have is: Would you then still run magpen marks? I guess not?
force of atmogs sounds kinda meh on him, since he has no AD scalings and the champions that love to build it are mainly ones with at least decent AD ratios and/or steroids. If anything then mb atmogs+wits end to make use of the additional AD you get from atmas.
Just wanted to mention that shen feels much stronger now and I highly recommend trying him out if you like him.
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i kinda like revolver for laning, but i would not build more ap than that 1 item.
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On September 19 2011 09:26 LaNague wrote:
i kinda like revolver for laning, but i would not build more ap than that 1 item.
I cannot say that it is bad or anything because i refuse to try it. But my thoughts are: His sustain is insanely buffed now so I allways have enough with just dorans shield. He also requires to get really close and personal, so I rather buy a belt instead of revolver.
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I've been messing around with Jungle Shen a bit, clears really safely, almost always at full hp.
Mpen red, armour yellows, scaling mr blues, armour or hp quints.
QWQE
Wraiths Wolves Blue Golems Red Gank.
His ganks aren't very good, but if you can get your taunt off it gives your lane partner plenty of time to murder them.
Cloth+5pots > Mercs or Tabi > Aegis > Sunfire > Splitpush and situational defensive items.
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On September 19 2011 22:28 57 Corvette wrote:
I've been messing around with Jungle Shen a bit, clears really safely, almost always at full hp.
Mpen red, armour yellows, scaling mr blues, armour or hp quints.
QWQE
Wraiths Wolves Blue Golems Red Gank.
His ganks aren't very good, but if you can get your taunt off it gives your lane partner plenty of time to murder them.
Cloth+5pots > Mercs or Tabi > Aegis > Sunfire > Splitpush and situational defensive items.
O_o
his ganks are extremely strong
vorpal + ki strike is high burst, taunt is long duration stun that garen-tees that you'll apply red
only problem is that he's so slow that you don't have the level advantage when ganking. and without attack speed runes there's no way you're clearing the jungle in any reasonable time
i'm still working on jungle shen but now my feelings are he's best in bot lane
i'm thinking shen + talon tbh
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jungle shen doesnt need W just go R>Q>E>W. his sustain is enough now. I never tried starting blue so far but iam pretty sure you can start there with long sword+pot. he is similar to warwick in the jungle, just that you have better early gank potential and a bit less sustain.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Shen's just too weak still.
When you're up against Yorick, Udyr, Irelia, Lee Sin, hell even Renekton WW GP whatever, by level 6 you are not the scary force in lane. Q damage is still too low. Having a spammable 70-100 damage at lvl 1 is pretty nice, but any of those champs, particularily the first four, can simply wait a couple levels before trading damage with you and either a) stay out of short Q range, since you can't force them out of xp range with it, or b) eat Qs and not give a fuck because while they cant trade damage with you they can out-sustain your "burst" unless you do nothing but chuck Q every cooldown and never cs. I really don't think Shen should be considered in the top lane bruiser role. Whoever said they bullied Udyr out of lane, I'd like to know just what kind of retard was commanding Udyr that game haha
Bot lane situation is a little better. His slight increase in burst is nice, but not enough to put him back to the level of nightmare harass & burst and free farm for his carry like days of yore. Shen bot lane is powerful, but then....
lategame comes and you're a 1.5s taunt bot. peel one or two guys off your carry and hope to god your team wins the fight for you, cuz your 250 damage Q ain't gonna do shit, and nobody's getting any significant heal from its proc.
I played a few games running both, in top lane i tried standard tank builds as well as a silly rylai > abyssal > deathcap > GA build (rofl), and he is outclassed by basically everyone. In bot lane he is still very strong, but if your carry cant win the game by himself based on your babysitting performance, you are going to find yourself pretty worthless lategame. Still. 
The problem with Shen is simply that everyone who has a comparable role does it much better. From true hp/damage soak tanks like Rammus, who has a better taunt, better positioning abilities, and is beefier, to tanky guys like Lee Sin, Udyr, Gragas etc, who in comparison with Shen all do oodles of damage lategame in conjunction with their hardiness and control kits. Shen is neither the beefiest, nor the scariest, nor the most useful. Just kinda garbage tier.
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is it stupid to buy at least razor on jungle shen? hes so slow without it.
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"waiting out levels" means getting zoned which allways got me enough to compensate for his supportish ult. Never lost a lane top so far with him but still wating for a decent opponent.
jungle shen lost me a couple games (most of them) cuz shen needs crazy farm which he can only get top.
Also i highly doubt ire can trade with shen. basicly its the same deal with akali vs ire: you just zone her out of lane with Q harass. Dont forget he gets more sustain from Q than WW gets from his passive (on early levels).
edit: yes you need razors. upgrade to wriggles if you plan on warding.
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Is there any legitimacy to AP shen?
Something like Deathcap -> Abyssal/Zhonya's?
Or Rylai's instead of deathcap.
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AP shen runs out of energy to taunt after first one because you'll need to use q to damage and w to live. But that ult shield D:
Tank shen doesn't do anything except taunt (excellent skill) and free tp.
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I'd skip Rylai's and go straight into Abyssal and Zhonya's. AP Shen is there to Shadow Dash and make opponents rage because Feint saves you from everything (even at rank 1). Rylai's wouldn't be a bad option later, you just don't get much out of the slow.
I don't really know how legit it is, but it would work a lot better if Shen's Energy costs weren't so crazy.
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Shen's best non-ult ability is Shadow Dash. Shadow Dash has no AP Ratio. When using Shadow Dash, Shen only really has the ability to use one of his other 2 abilities.
Conclusion: AP Shen is garbage, build real items on him.
If you're jungling, get wriggles unless you can get a stupid fast sunfire cape. Without wriggle's, you just have no dragon presence and you jungle sooooo slowly after a couple passes.
I personally like HoG + Warmog's -> Atma's with like, Mallet/Aegis/Sunfire/Trinity Force as options with FoN whenever you need a huge chunk of MRes. Shen's a pretty meh character, but he can split push like a boss and is decent at low levels, so I just try to get an item advantage and then get to the point where I can 1v1 people due to my item advantage and then just split push all game.
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I like to jungle Shen when mid and bot are good DPSers against dragon (cass and kogmaw or someone who opens wriggles). Wriggle is always tempting when I jungle shen but I really really want to ditch wriggles for a fast phage (for trinity) because it makes his ganks and counterganks so retardedly strong. For jungling I just do a fast HoG and then whatever.
He's very slow at clearing the jungle (relative to other common junglers; techncially speed is decent enough not to be a troll jungler) but at least he's almost always full HP and after level 6 is always 'around' so he can afford to be a little slow.
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On October 06 2011 00:59 Mogwai wrote:
Shen's best non-ult ability is Shadow Dash. Shadow Dash has no AP Ratio. When using Shadow Dash, Shen only really has the ability to use one of his other 2 abilities.
Conclusion: AP Shen is garbage, build real items on him.
If you're jungling, get wriggles unless you can get a stupid fast sunfire cape. Without wriggle's, you just have no dragon presence and you jungle sooooo slowly after a couple passes.
I personally like HoG + Warmog's -> Atma's with like, Mallet/Aegis/Sunfire/Trinity Force as options with FoN whenever you need a huge chunk of MRes. Shen's a pretty meh character, but he can split push like a boss and is decent at low levels, so I just try to get an item advantage and then get to the point where I can 1v1 people due to my item advantage and then just split push all game.
Takes soooo much farm. Took me forever to farm just Warmog's and Atmas even though I was soloing top and consistently taking cs. Ult should provide some gold but no kill/assists came out of it other than the first time.
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Well, the plus side of it on shen is that even with just warmog's you're quite capable of trucking people because of how it works out with your passive. So it's not like on most characters where you get warmog's and have this giant lapse in your offensive power while you build an atma's. I dunno, you don't really need to do anything in a specific order on shen, best to like, just go HoG and then play it by ear I guess. Warmog's if you can farm it up fast enough, otherwise phage/aegis/sunfire to give you immediate power and then later transition to the mog's or even just say fuck that and get mallet instead.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
zero reason to jungle shen right now when rammus exists, dudes a monster. He basically has a global presence with Q l0l
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dude, rammus is so underrated, I don't get why people don't just jammus and cash in on free wins.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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you have to see his ganks from so far away to be able to escape without a summoner, uhg, so gay.
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EPT
