EPTJust feel like GP does not gain enough killing potential with trinity force for it to be worth getting on him.
[Champion] Gangplank - Page 37
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Mauzel
United States421 Posts
Just feel like GP does not gain enough killing potential with trinity force for it to be worth getting on him. | ||
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
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Mauzel
United States421 Posts
Honestly I feel like you should either rush trinity or not get it at all, unless you're good sitting on just one core component for the long haul (can see that w/ phage on some heros, but not on GP against an AP team). IBG is better because it gives you better peeling / chasing ability (slowing somebody = better for your team than just yourself) | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
So I started playing the Zeus build top now. I do fine in lane -- until I get Shiv it's usually fairly even (+/- 1 kill), and then I start winning lane hard. I itemize based on opponent, but generally shiv as first item if I can, as second item if I'm having a hard time (rushing glacial or SV first in that case). But I'm still losing games. I'm on a 7-game loss streak as GP top. It feels like I just don't impact the game enough, last few games were vs Wukong, Malph, Xin, and Jax top; in every case they pulled way ahead once team fights began. Any idea what I might be doing wrong? Am I supposed to be aggressive in lane and try to crush the enemy as blitzplank? He just doesn't feel strong in team fights -- no hard CC, on AoE damage apart from ult/shiv proc, no instant gap closers. | ||
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Mauzel
United States421 Posts
You basically need to crush top in order to guarantee a win for your team. Fortunately it is not too hard for GP to do that against the unprepared opponent. I think that in more even lanes, you have three options 1) Split pusher: This is probably GP's best role thanks to his global ulti, high MS, resilience against CC, and natural synergy with AOE items like IBG, Hydra, and Shiv. However he can easily be shut down by superior split pushers such as tryn, Yi, or even Vayne. Don't split push against teams w/ those heros because they will probably just kill you. 2) Support/Peeler: GP is a natural peeler thanks to the slow on his ult and passive. Also the speed boost will help your ADC kite. Solid pick on mobile teams. Frozen Mallet and IBG apply their respective melee slows on his Q! 3) Glass cannon: If you are against a lane that can't kill you, glass cannon GP can be useful for chunking down AP or ADC that are out of position with Q-crits. Otherwise useless in fights because you die so fast. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
Getting Hydra would be a clear departure from what I've been doing so far, if only because the laning phase usually ends before I'd be able to get Shiv, defensive item, and Hydra. I'm not high elo (Gold 4/5), so it's hard to reliably split push without being forced into team fights -- otherwise I'll just lose while the team repeatedly engages 4v5 every other game. If I already have Shiv+Wits, those don't help with 2) at all, and Wit's doesn't seem like a great choice for 3) either. But maybe I'm just giving up on split pushing too easily, I don't know why else I'd be so far from ever getting enough gold for a 4th/5th item. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Thing is with On-hit style items you have a bit of a fall off late game, at which point you more useful just slowing things that try to hit your AD carry. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
If you're in low Elo and this build isn't totally crushing lanes you might need to farm better or start testing when you can pressure more. There are a lot of spots to all-in with this build in lane and you should crush any matchup that's not like Renekton/Riven at that Elo. Tankplank is insanely effective as long as you play it correctly, in my opinion and the opinion of the diamond guy on KR server who invented this Shiv/Belt/Wits -> Tank build. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
I was underestimating GP all-ins because his damage is deceptively low at the start of trades -- it always looks like I'll lose horribly, and only when I force myself to keep fighting do I start pulling ahead. I guess that's because GP's damage isn't cooldown-gated, so you really make up for the lack of front-loaded damage over time. Zerg, when you say "this build" should be crushing lanes, do you still mean the Korean Shiv/Belt/Wits->Tank or was that specifically about getting Hydra and going 9 or 21 offensive? I still went 1-4 yesterday with the Korean build, and I'm still not sure how to deal with team fights, but at least I did a lot better KDA-wise (one of the games was a 4v5, and at least one of them had a stupidly fed bot lane). How do you guys deal with disengages in team fights? Does anyone run ghost or build Shurelyas with the Korean build? I found Ghost essential when fighting Trynd top, and it seemed fantastic to stick to targets in team fights, but I don't know if that was just a lucky game. | ||
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Mauzel
United States421 Posts
Ghost should be okay just don't pick it vs nasus but I do not like picking up shurelya. Edit: ZR was talking about the zeus build. | ||
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
Shurelyas seems pretty bad since your E is a pseudo shurelyas, with E passive + shiv you are very speedy yourself, and your passive will slow down enemy anyways so you shouldn't have trouble sticking to people. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
I definitely feel people have forgotten how to play against GP though. If you max W and play defensively then decide to all in people forget how much your passive does and how well you bate under tower. If you max Q and they neglect armor you can start chunking them hard and fast and start zoning them from creeps. | ||
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
Agreed that people forgot to play vs GP though, especially early game where you get no respect and people start regen or flask or d sword and try to fight you at lvl 1 or 2. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On September 09 2013 22:05 DrunkenOne wrote: IE is great except where are you getting the money for it? Most games laning phase is over before I can finish wits let alone an IE. I'm usually coming out of laning phase with something like shiv/glacial shroud/kindlegem vs an AD. After laning phase I find its tough to recall with the 1600 gold for a bf sword unless you randomly pick up a triple kill or something. On top of that, you have no armor pen so poking with IE against their front line isn't going to be doing much damage. Sure you can chunk squishies but IBG seems like a much better buy for the same purpose, gives a bunch of extra damage to your Q while also giving much more utility and tankiness. It also syngergizes with shiv in that both give you a big chunk of AOE magic damage on those pokes. Agreed that people forgot to play vs GP though, especially early game where you get no respect and people start regen or flask or d sword and try to fight you at lvl 1 or 2. Well when you remove wits from the equation you get the extra 2k+ to build towards your IE. Obviously IE is somehwat of a luxury item still, but getting 5 items isn't that crazy rare or anything. I usually go for shiv, boots, then randuins (maybe glacial, depends on matchups), visage, then build that extra chunk of damage. I messed around with hydra a little too but I didn't feel it offered quite enough. Shiv + Q + auto's already clears waves decently fast. Frozen fist just doesn't really seem that important to me. You should be able to get on somebody's face as GP with your ult, passive, and W so adding in another big slow doesn't seem that important. For what it's worth, I might consider building wits and shiv together again but I'd probably save wits for the 6th item instead of an earlier buy. | ||
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Mauzel
United States421 Posts
I agree that Hydra or any other damage item really feels lackluster on GP so I just build straight Supportyish Tank items after wits, but I still like getting wits! And yeah, people do not know how to play vs GP. I 2v1ed a Kennen and a J4 at lvl 2. I killed kennen with auto-q-auto ignite auto. I started to run from J4 when I was like, wait a minute, I'm playing gangplank, so I killed him too. | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
Yes, GP doesn´t have the magic damage to warrant a "full-on" magic pen build, however he has the ability to stick to people for persistent sunfire damage better than most IMO. I round up the build with flash+ghost summoners with the enchantment to reduce their cooldowns and help stick to people, and hybrid pen marks and quints for runes. It works ok because you really burn through enemies with your passive+sunfire+wit´s end, and a well placed ulti late game is a head start to the fight for your team. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Like I sometimes still get Sunfire but Randuin's Omen is strictly better as far as tank items go and you can just build Shiv (a damage item) if you want damage. If you're having trouble farming or pushing wtf are you doing with the Shiv? Anyway I'm not certain that your build is bad because I absolutely haven't tried it but I'm relatively sure you're sacrificing your entire early game with ghost/flash and hybrid pen marks. If you can't all-in because you're not running ignite and have no AD then a lot of lanes can just totally disrespect you and you'll end up losing lanes you should win with two escape summoners. | ||
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unjugon
Spain119 Posts
Don´t get me wrong, I have mained GP since season 1 and know the feeling of an early shyv. But saying you are sacrificing the early game is misleading: I don´t believe you can have any kind of advantage early game as GP vs 99% of the champ pool (well, the usual suspects in the top lane) past lvl 1-2. I can open tabi+sunfire and be just as dangerous through sheer sustained damage while having an easier time surviving until I can buy it, Building tanky early makes your W so much better. Similarly for ghost/flash vs ignite. I would say ghost/flash has just as much killing potential, it just depends on the situation. Flash/ghost are not escape summoners. PS: I say the above on the basis of my climbing the ladder to gold 1 ("poltrip" in EUW) with GP support (hell yeah) by building early tabi+max W+barrier and just tanking my may out of things. | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
It works much better if someone else can initiate first (or if you are initiated on), then you throw your ulti to follow up, so people don't automatically dash/run out of it (everyone has a dash nowadays) Also I don't see the point of liandry just for you ulti, that seems extremely cost inefficent, and a ton of gold sunk in that doesn't help your lane very much. | ||
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