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On September 13 2013 03:38 unjugon wrote:
We can keep that last post and delete the 3-4 pages before it pretty much. Very well put.
You needed some voyboy perspective to realize GP is an underpower champ? It doesn't matter if he is. I play him because I want to play GP, not because I want to play a broken fotm or secretly op champ. Just because he's underpowered doesn't mean you shouldn't try to find a way to play/build him optimally.
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Play him optimally? I already do, I go support and bully most bot lanes with tabi rush all-in.
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If you're buying Liandry's on Gangplank you're not playing him optimally lol
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I also disagree that he has no outplay potential. W max allows you to create situations where you can outplay on the defense as well as on the offense with tactical use of fruit cleanse/heal. He has a global ultimate which can turn fights from across the map and his auto-attack/q slows on-hit. He also has a built-in team steroid.
I'm not arguing that he's the best champ but he's working fine for me in platinum+ and I find him fun, which is the most important factor for me.
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Also he's seen play in pro matches recently in Korea (albeit as a jungler by jin air falcons in a game they lost) so it's not as if he's totally unplayable like Poppy or Heimerdinger (who also saw play in China).
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On September 13 2013 02:01 Tula wrote:
Some part of the reason why it works obviously is that no one is used to Gangplank anymore in SoloQ. Frankly I've had successes with Zeus build, but at least 60% of that is that no one really knows what the hell they should do to stop me (that being don't dive risky dives early even if it might look tempting). If you look at his kit in all honesty, he is pretty weak compared to many other top laners. His ult esp. is hit and miss far too often (I've had someone run through the entire length of it without getting hit by a single cannonball). His Q might be nice, but pantheons Q is nicer. His heal (and cleanse) is great for lane sustain and baiting, but simply put he doesn't deal enough damage for most short teamfights (and they are pretty short).
Agree with all of this. A lot of the success of the korean build is that people:
A) don't remember (or maybe didn't even play) when GP was considered the #1 lane bully in the game and come to lane with bead/flask/dsword starts and give up FB at lvl 1/2
OR, they do remember GP terror but:
B) rush tabi or stack armor to counter you, which does nothing vs your shiv/wits build.
C) most GPs were glass cannon crit planks so they think they can easily dive you and blow you up quickly, allowing for easy W baits.
I love the zeus build and GP in general but that doesn't change the fact that he is pretty weak in comparison to newer champs. However I really have no idea how to buff him without making him completely overpowered or having to rework his kit. You can't buff his base stats which are already fairly strong, especially since his lvl 1/2 are so OP. Maybe buff his very weak stat scaling? He has the most health in the game at lvl 1 with 576 but he only gains +81 a level which leaves him at a ridiculously low 1953 hp at lvl 18. This is only 1 more health than kogmaw. Jax has almost 300 more health at 18. GP's AD/level is also on the low side at +3 while most other fighters have +3.1-3.5. Not a huge difference but adds up.
Besides his base/scaling stats idk what to do other than fixing raise morale so it instacasts instead of the stupid animation causing him to pause. I guess reverting his numerous nerfs to raise morale, decreasing mana cost on Q back to where it was, and maybe making passive stack 4 times instead of 3 would be a start.
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I'm quite sure his base (and+lvl) attack speed is really shitty too. Haven't checked exact stats though.
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On September 14 2013 03:10 RouaF wrote:
I'm quite sure his base (and+lvl) attack speed is really shitty too. Haven't checked exact stats though.
it's below average, but that's to compensate for the free attack he gets from E, which puts him above average iirc
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On September 14 2013 03:10 RouaF wrote:
I'm quite sure his base (and+lvl) attack speed is really shitty too. Haven't checked exact stats though.
His base AD is 54 + 3 per level which is pretty good, putting him in the high-average range, but he gets 16 free AD from E as a passive + his DoT from his passive and +40 AD when E is active, giving him one of the highest AD stats in the game I think.
His base attack speed is high-average as well but he has an autoattack reset and you're building two major attackspeed items on him.
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gangplank is definitely not underpowered.
he's just a cheese hero now after all his nerfs. hes completely ridiculous in certain circumstances
if they buffed him to actually be decent in the areas he's weak in then he'd just be ridiculous
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On September 13 2013 05:33 unjugon wrote:
Play him optimally? I already do, I go support and bully most bot lanes with tabi rush all-in.
I've never seen a pro player go support GP, so I'm pretty sure it's not viable.
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I've never seen a pro player go support GP, so I'm pretty sure it's not viable
Not the viable word pls..it single handedly brought me from silver to promotion to platinum, so up to platinum it´s got to be viable.
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Literally anything is viable through platinum, including your 2900 mpen item build
People are so bad under diamond that it doesn't really matter that you wasted a Frozen Heart's worth of gold on an item that MIGHT do 12% of their health every 2 minutes.
Seriously though keep building Liandry's on Gangplank and playing him support and wonder why you're stuck in plat promos
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Also I just want to point out I'm not arguing with you because I don't like you--I don't, but that's not the reason why--I'm arguing with you because you're posting retarded shit in our strategy thread and defending it with "it worked in silver"
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You got that mixed around: I was stuck in silver playing normally until I started doing nothing but GP support, where I do not build Liandry´s because I have no gold! There´s also the level of players, you make it sound like all players are equally good and any retarded build can work up to diamond, which is obviously false. I was a SILVER player, and started climbing with GP support..I was not a platinum player -or gold.
Liandry´s does up to 4% of current HP per second, and GP´s ulti lasts 7 seconds, which means it can do more than double your 12%, disregarding the magic pen and AP for ulti damage. This can help your team A WHOLE LOT MORE than the frozen heart. Sometimes. Not saying it is better per se.
Not sure why you don´t like me, you have been the only one being insulting and I like you just fine.
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In fact, potentially the Liandry´s effect can last for 7+2 (or +3, depending on how it works) seconds. We are looking to like 1/3rd of their HP with some more magic pen and an abyssal from a teammate.
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On September 15 2013 17:31 unjugon wrote:
You got that mixed around: I was stuck in silver playing normally until I started doing nothing but GP support, where I do not build Liandry´s because I have no gold! There´s also the level of players, you make it sound like all players are equally good and any retarded build can work up to diamond, which is obviously false. I was a SILVER player, and started climbing with GP support..I was not a platinum player -or gold.
Liandry´s does up to 4% of current HP per second, and GP´s ulti lasts 7 seconds, which means it can do more than double your 12%, disregarding the magic pen and AP for ulti damage. This can help your team A WHOLE LOT MORE than the frozen heart. Sometimes. Not saying it is better per se.
Not sure why you don´t like me, you have been the only one being insulting and I like you just fine.
Simply put that is wrong. Liandry's might do 4% in theory, but you do not have the magic pen to make that realistic. By the time you buy it almost everyone WILL have at least 50 magic resist (with the current Spirit visage meta chances are at least 2 people on the enemy team will already have their negatron cloak).
You are still ignoring the fact that the Cannonballs are random. Yes on a perfect ult when all the stars align you might hit every single enemy twice, which in total would add some significant damage, but in practice it doesn't happen like that, most people do not fight in Gangplank ults they either dive through it asap or they disengage (which on Silver can sometimes lead to hilarious missplays by the enemy team when 3 people disengage and 2 dive through but that is another matter).
In addition the way Liandry's works is that if you hit a target twice you override the first proc, Often even before the damage ticks (classic example teemo shrooms).
Just for clarity's sake, are we discussing Gangplank support or top lane plank now? If we are discussing Support I'll give you the classic answer, yes it might work at silver but that has more to do with most people at silver having no clue what to expect from him. If you look at his kit he has almost nothing in it which supports usually bring (no cc, no heals). The only thing he does bring is a medium team buff and some poke (in all honesty he has decent poke at shortish range) and the ability to do surprising amounts of damage in short trades.
If your opponents knew what to do almost any common bot lane could either outpoke him and his adc (sona/lulu + any pokey adc) or allin the adc (Nami, thresh, leona) without gp being any help at all. He can't peel for his adc unless you count summoner exhaust. Yes it might work, but strategies that rely on opponents being stupid only work until you meet the opponents that can actually think through a strategy.
At bronze Teemo support used to be all the rage when I started to play, mostly because his levels 1-5 are strong no matter if you have items or not. Not really surprisingly as soon as I ranked up to silver almost everyone knew how to deal with that yordle and the "standard" support lanes started to take over.
So bottom line, does Liandry add damage to your ult? Of course it does. Does the damage in any way shape or form pay off for the rather high cost of the item? Seldom at best.
Does GP support work (or is it viable?)? As long as your opponents are in the "I have no clue what this champion does" school of thought it might work brilliantly. Heck for that matter as long as you control your char perfectly and know exactly when his power spikes in comparison to your enemies (which I'd assume you do considering you seem to main GP support) and your opponents lack that same knowledge of your champion (also very likely considering how rare GP is) you can feasibly have an easy time until you reach way above your typical weight class. Niche picks are always like that simply because the Surprise factor can work to give you a nice snowball. It still doesn't mean the char is feasibly for mainstream play.
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On September 15 2013 17:31 unjugon wrote:
You got that mixed around: I was stuck in silver playing normally until I started doing nothing but GP support, where I do not build Liandry´s because I have no gold! There´s also the level of players, you make it sound like all players are equally good and any retarded build can work up to diamond, which is obviously false. I was a SILVER player, and started climbing with GP support..I was not a platinum player -or gold.
Liandry´s does up to 4% of current HP per second, and GP´s ulti lasts 7 seconds, which means it can do more than double your 12%, disregarding the magic pen and AP for ulti damage. This can help your team A WHOLE LOT MORE than the frozen heart. Sometimes. Not saying it is better per se.
Not sure why you don´t like me, you have been the only one being insulting and I like you just fine.
The reason I don't like you is because you are posting retarded strategy advice in a thread and are defending by making shit up because you don't understand what it's like to play against good players.
On September 15 2013 18:31 unjugon wrote:
In fact, potentially the Liandry´s effect can last for 7+2 (or +3, depending on how it works) seconds. We are looking to like 1/3rd of their HP with some more magic pen and an abyssal from a teammate.
No, you're not going to do 1/3 of the enemy team's HP with a Liandry's. How can you even think that's realistic? The proc doesn't stack.
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I've played matches in platinum with a player who forced udyr support (Haoz, previously #1 TT S1). We won lane. Does that make it good? No. Everyone just sucks at this game. Nobody who's stuck under diamond is any good, myself included.
My standard of good is probably just a lot higher than yours is because I was top 200 in S1. I've played against most of the players in the LCS and a lot of the korean leagues on a regular basis for long enough to know what good really looks like. I could namedrop here but people always give me shit for it when I'm just using it to make a legitimate point (everyone is horrible and it doesn't matter what you do against them because they're bad). Just because a build is working for you doesn't make it good. Just because you're playing a champion and you're dominating with it doesn't make it good. As you get higher up, people understand the game better and better and retarded stuff that gold players can't deal with will just get you shit on by players who can deal with that level of retardedness.
Seriously though you're still unable to admit that your retarded Liandry's Torment on Gangplank build is bad and that support GP isn't good because you totally don't understand what supporting is about. It's not about winning lane at all. It's about winning the game, and without a real support with real support skills you're just shooting your team in the foot.
It's clearly too much for you to comprehend, so I'm done posting here. Advocate whatever kind of retarded shit you want. I tried.
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Have anyone tried Tri Force on GP after the Tri Force Buff? If so how good is it?
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EPT
