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On November 02 2013 09:27 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2013 05:13 Mauzel wrote:On November 01 2013 11:46 iCanada wrote:On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt. I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever. You basically have two real choices: 1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite. Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early. Disagree with that. GP can solo kill almost anybody w/o an escape. If you're against Shen and you're starting redpot you will most likely kill him if you catch him going through river. 3stack passive slow lets you get off a couple extra autos. Shen has an escape. He also has flash. What kind of player goes to lane with skills already skilled? o.o If I'm playing Shen, i'd be walking from leashing with no skill, would pres CTRL+E and escape. No way you kill him. Even if he doesn't do that, I dont think following flash against a Shen a smart move unless he guaranteed dead anyway, would rather just take him using his summoner, keep my flash and have that boon in my backpocket for later. A good jungler that knows GP has no flash against a Shen will kill you. Good players knowing you dont have flash means your life sucks.
A lot of shens take Q first to help their jungler on the buff because it's actually a really good leashing skill. Also you really don't want to start taunt as shen vs GP because GP is great at zoning you and that puts you really behind. Taunt gives you neither sustain nor shield so it's an especially shitty lvl 1 for Shen who already is at a disadvantage @ lvl 1. If you take taunt I will happily let you escape and make your lvl 1 and 2 miserable.
Otherwise, I would probably follow Shen if he flashed, even if you're only 75% certain you're going to get the kill. It allows you to push the lane to tower and back. Ideally by then the tower will be pushing back to you. Also a lack of flash works both ways. I would say that Shen is only marginally better at surviving ganks than GP because of GP W completely countering taunt and Shen's lackluster damage. Early game GP with a level and health advantage with red pot can actually consistently 1v2 in ganks, depending on who the opposing jungler is.
Of course this is all dependent on Shen going through the river.
Never go through the river.
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On November 06 2013 23:53 zekimar wrote:
I've been finding that statikk shiv + E passive can make you faster than some champions that have t2 boots(i've been seeing around ~400 ms), so is it reasonable just to skip t2 boots until very late/not get boots at all if the enemy team is fairly slow?
This is how Dyrus thinks about it (not just GP) and I think this makes sense.
If you are split pushing/laning: boots are low priority (maximize straight up 1v1 strength)
If you are teamfighting: get boots. (maximize mobility === flexibility in a teamfight)
MS helps GP take advantage of his passive with his auto attacks but when you have statik shiv you can get the statik proc + 1 passive proc with just your Q so you honestly don't need to get close. Also because of E I think that you can stay on T1 boots for most of the game. When you think it's about time to roam/teamfight or when at least one of your lane's towers are down you should get T2 boots (almost always tabis... maybe CDR or mercs)
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With the changed masteries and meta, korean gp doesn't seem as viable since 1/22/7 sucks. Time to switch back to 21/9? Or 0/21/9 and farm forever using the new utility masteries to sustain forever?
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I still love going auto-Q-auto at level 1. It puts Riven's to shame as they realise they can't even kill you even after popping their red pot.
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I don't see the point in 9 points in offense on almost any champion and the mana regen/SoS/culinary master is gamebreaking
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pretty sure you'll win trades way harder if you go for 0/21/9 instead of 9/21/0. The offense masteries are only worth it if you go deeper, the biscuit and the nuts regen in the defense tree are way better than the shit masteries on the low offense tree
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Anyone else notice a certain influx of gold since we were blessed with assist-streak functionality?
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How is the regen nuts? With your mana pool, it's something like 1-1.5 hp5 during the laning phase, up to 2 hp5 after some levels maybe. It's not that bad, but far from gamebreaking.
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The regen in defensive I think he meant.
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I was talking about all 9 points in utility tree as a whole being a significant boost to laning. Mp5/hp5/BISCUITS/ms/improved recall are all crazy good on GP.
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Oh, I agree then. I thought you were talking about SoS specifically, which sounds as underwhelming as ever to me (since it only really kicks in late game, or around 15-20 minutes if you build Tear, and in most cases laning is over by then).
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Don't build tear on GP.
-.-
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Why even go SoS over reduced summoners cd?
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Meh even koreanplank seems pretty dead now since every single top laner is a megatank that can just shove you to turret while shrugging off harass. Focusing on magic damage like koreanplank build doesn't matter since they will be getting spirit visage as a 1st or 2nd item anyways. Even if you can cheese a kill early on when you are strong you still will get fucked.
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I main gangplank top now and it's very strong, you just need to learn the passive-stacker-dance. Dont just q, dont just auto. In and out, like a waterdancer.
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Been playing him mid with 0/21/9 masteries and my adc page (4% lifesteal, 1 AD quint, AD marks with 1 critchance, armor, mixed MR) and going SotEL/Shiv/Mallet/Wits kinds of things. It's lots of fun to have so much gold so early because most casters can't kill you through W and Spirit Stone regen and then you have infinite slows.
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My go to build for all cases where the opposing team has both ad and ap damage is spirit visage and frozen heart, because before the cdr nerf on sv that gave me 40% cdr, which was brilliant for the oranges especially, but also having the ult up every teamfight is nice.
Lately I've started going randuins instead of frozen heart, unless there's both an attackspeed heavy adc and something like a Tryndamere on the other team. I gotta say, I'm so happy when I can go randuins, because it's just soooo much better than frozen heart against anything but the previously mentioned comp, and the extra health makes an enormous difference in teamfights. When laning against ad nukers such as Riven I always rush randuins first, along with ninja tabi. You become such a more significant threat because you can take the whole combo without getting destroyed.
Against anything but ad assassins I usually rush shiv, because the shiv q powerspike is just bonkers early to mid, followed by trinity force. I love the trinity force for the extra q damage and the movespeed, but I'm starting to wonder if gauntlet wouldn't be better for the team as a whole. I mean who needs speed and damage when you can aoe slow for your whole team? Also armor.
I've been screwing around with full damage when we're winning or we don't have enough damage, and I gotta say it's pretty awful unless you're already winning :p Sure, you can basically oneshot a squishy, but you're so squishy yourself that unless your first q crits and deletes something important you're basically useless in teamfights.
also: I've found you should never take tank masteries as gp. You can survive anything either way if you play it right, and taking tank masteries means your damage is so weak you may as well not even try to trade, you're hardly a threat at all against anyone with a smidgeon of sustain, and even if your jungler gets a strong gank off you don't have the damage to seal the deal.
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IMO defensive masteries on GP is a no-no. You shouldn´t rely on defensive masteries for sustain (perseverance) because you risk getting comboed if dropping low and with W you can stay healthy, plus as mentioned above GP feels like he needs the damage boost from offensive masteries to compete.
I have been going 21/9/0 rushing gauntlet followed by cdr boots and it feels really solid against ads top. Allows you to win trades once you complete the Iceborn (mostly because many times you can avoid getting hit at all).Having near max cdr (I take cdr glyphs too) gives you more sustain than getting some lifesteal or dorans, and ulting other lanes constantly takes a lot of pressure off your teammates. I also go hybrid pen reds and quints for that extra damage comboed with offensive masteries. Making sure they can´t ignore the ulti, and allows me to move into something like sunfire+wit´s for persistent damage. I feel this kind of offensive supportish build is the best route to go on GP. Gauntlet might not be much damage but it feels just right with offensive masteries and some ArPen.
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I've played like 30 games at the gold-plat level with GP top over the last few months and he actually seems not as bad as usual. Plus most importantly he is super fun. The decline in megatanks means he doesn't have as many terrible matchups and his damage doesn't fall off as drastically mid/late game. He actually has some decent matchups in lane against meta champs like liss/gnar/rumble, since his Q poke is as good or better harass as theirs while he also has W to sustain and get out of cc/all ins. If they build armor to counter his Q harass its great since I get shiv 1st item which still destroys them. The constant harass will force them to use their TP to get back to lane while you can use yours to help drag fights (or take ignite for kill pressure and use ult to help drag/other lanes). However Irelia totally puts it in his butt.
I'm also able to cheese first blood at lvl 1 seemingly 50% of the time, either in bush before minions arrive or at lvl 1 if they get close enough for an AA+Q+AA. Even with the adjusted early game stats I'm not sure theres a champ you lose to at lvl 1, even with a flask start against d sword. Don't even need ignite for this but it helps. Obv an early kill is another big advantage which helps cover all the weaknesses.
I max W or at least get 4+ levels in it which helps sustain in lane, survive ganks, and helps win almost all trades and duels because that burst heal is insane. Especially helps that almost no one takes ignite anymore. Start flask into zeal->shiv unless against heavy AD like riven or panth where I go cloth into glacial/IBG. If you are at all ahead, finishing shiv gives you a huge powerspike since they will have no HP or MR items at that point. It also screws champs like rumble or liss who probably go seekers first since that armor does nothing against the proc. Shiv 1st item also means you can hold off on boots for a while. Leaving Q at lvl 1 for a while means the Q harass only costs 50 mana while doing big damage with the shiv proc.
After shiv if I'm not horribly behind I get Triforce. Thats a lot of money to get into offensive items before defensive, but with shiv + tri + e passive your movespeed is huge which lets you kite while Qing and you have W as a get out of jail card. Shiv + tri + E passive also lets you forgo boots or at least lvl 2 boots until necessary which saves a little gold. The midgame powerspike of shiv+ tri is insane and lets you murder squishys while still bringing good utility to fights with ult and E. Landing a Q crit on someone in an extended siege or drag standoff can win a fight or an objective.
Defensive items I get visage + FH/randuins. SV + FH is preferred for all that CDR. 6th item is preference but the dream is to also get an IE for that delicious shiv + tri + IE Q goodness.
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I have only 20 games this season on GP but when I played him I felt that going Sheen first gave me a bigger power spike after my first back. AP improves W heal and the item gives much needed mana for fighting in lane and the proc on Q make it a great first buy.
Depending on how the lane goes I buy either the other triforce components or glacial shroud for IBG. After that I buy a tank item to not get blown up in mid game fights.
My biggest concern with GP is that I feel utterly useless when I am behind. Meta toplaners like Gnar and Liss have huge teamfight ults and hard cc to lock down targets. GP just gets kited around since his passive is useless outside of lane.
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EPT
