•Skills(for detailed description of skills read: here)
-Passive Grog Soaked Blade -Gangplank's attacks apply a poison that deals magic damage per second, increasing with level, and decreases healing received by the target by 50% for 10 seconds. Really fine passive. In early game, increases your auto-attack damage, later is more a counter to healing (50% reduction). Damage dealt by this passive is magic, it means its reduced by magic resist.
-Q Parrrley- Gankplank takes aim and shoots an enemy unit with his pistol. If he kills it, he gains extra gold. Gangplank's physical damage nuke. Very efficient skill to farm. At maximum level, it increases creep bounty drastically (about 60-100% extra gold from regular creeps, depends of kind of monster). Sheen with parley: proc instantly adds damage to parley. Basic formula to see how effective is: parley damage= (parley basic damage -% reduced by enemy armor) + (100% of your BASE attack damage[150% if you have trinity force] - % reduced by enemy armor). Base damage is way lower than your actual damage. At level 18 Gangplank has 108 base damage, sheen proc gives you additional 108[162] damage, which is diminished by enemy armor (40% damage reduction is reachable naturally by leveling up) It procs on hit effects, such as black cleaver, lizard buff, but doesn't carry Grog Soaked Blade
-W Remove Scurvy -Consumes a large quantity of citrus fruit which clears any crowd control effects on him and heals him. It will save your life many times. It clears any CC effects, such as slows, snares, stuns etc. It also works against supression (things have to be tested every patch, sometimes it interrupts supression sometimes not). Up to 380 health restored at max level, with 40% cooldown reduction 10.8 sec is reachable.
-E Raise Morale - Gangplank kills an allied minion, inspiring himself and nearby allied champions to receive increased attack damage and movement speed. Additionally, Gangplank's attack damage and movement speed is passively increased. The movement speed difference is about 6-7 units per level, 30-35 at maximum. That means, with lvl 2 boots, level 5 raise morale, with just it’s passive, you have about 430 movement speed. When activated: ~460. Also, gives up to 24 damage to yourself as passive. While activates, your allies receive 24 damage boost, and doubles this value for yourself. Its completly unique skill in game, which allows you to kill alied creep, known as denying. It is worth pointing that you can deny almost everything with this skill; including wards, heimer turrets, tibbers, malzahar spiderling etc. This information might be important, if you need to fight outside lanes, or can’t buff yourself before fight. Twisted fate passive gives you +2 gold every denied creep. Creeps which you kill by this skill, don’t give your enemy exp. This is only true if you deal killing blow. If you aim a creep, which is going to die from enemy, and your raise morale projectile is in mid-air but you don’t kill unit, enemy will get experience (and gold), and you will get raise morale buff. Denying during lane phase: Effectiveness of denying: Some facts: every creep wave include 3 melee minions (64 exp/67 if 4 points in expanded mind), 3 ranged minions (32 exp/34). Every 3 waves, a siege creep appears (100/105 exp). First wave spawns at : 1:30, it will reach tower in about 30 seconds. Each wave will spawn every 30 seconds. Experience per wave: 3* 64 (67) + 3* 32 (34)= 288 (303) Every third wave: 288+100= 388 (303+ 105= 408) Experience gained after 90 seconds (time required to “loop” spawn rotation) of spawning creeps: 2*288 + 388= 964 (2* 303 + 408 )= 1014. In this time you should be able to use raise morale 4 times (22-23 sec cooldown is reachable by having 6% cooldown reduction from utility) In best situation you can deny 3 melee creeps and 1 siege creeps= 3* 64 + 100= 294 (3*67 + 105)= 306, which is about 30% of received experience.
-R Cannon Barrage -Gangplank signals his ship to fire upon an area for 10 seconds. Each cannonball deals damage and slows enemy units. Global AoE ult. Don’t use it to initiate fights. I would cast it a bit behind of enemies back, after start of team fight, to prevent them from escape, or at early game to prevent from getting dragon by enemy/ save your tower. It synergizes very well with other AOE ults (amumu, galio, morgana, etc.)
•Summoner Spells -Ghost is mandatory. Too good to not have. -Second spell is up to you, Ignite/Flash or even Clarivoyance sounds great. You might also cast CV anywhere in map, and then ult, to kill recalling enemy (theorycrafting only)
•Skill order Put first point in Raise Morale. You want to kill creep right at spawn point. Future development depends on lane you are facing. If you aren't harassed/pushed that much, Q>W, if you have problems in saying in lane/tower might be in danger W>Q. E might be maxed in late levels.
•Items As first item: -Doran’s ring (higher mana regeneration, ap can be negated) -Doran’s shield (health regeneration + armor might be more effective without leveling remove scurvy) -Meki pedant, if you want to rush manamune.
Possible item builds: Crit/damage build: yomumu ghostblade, infinity edge. After these items I’d buy some survivability stuff, sunfire cape/banshee veil (depending on main source of enemy team damage). With these 2 items, with maxed raise morale active, you have about 270 base damage, and 35% critical strike chance. With fortitude pot + agility pot= 290 damage, and about 50-55% critical. Other optional items: -Brutalizer: it stack with yomumu ghostblade, with these 2 items you reach CDR cap, high flat armor penetration and higher base damage. -Last whisper: 40% armor penetration might work really well if enemy stack armor. Actually enemy armor is reduced first by flat penetration, then by % penetration) Example: (150-50) -40%= 60. -Bloodthrister: High damage and lifesteal (which is applied with parley) -Manamune: Allows you to increase base damage, and your mana pool, which sometimes might extend your abilities in battle.
Tankplank I’d say get aegis of legion (1 is a must on every team), stack sunfire capes. Other optional items: -Banshee veil: best anti-caster item in game -Force of nature: if you get banshee and it looks like not enough vs magic stacked team -Glacial shroud: extra armor, cooldown reduction, extra mana. You might considering upgrading it to frozen heart. -Raduin’s omen: good aoe slow, high armor -Yomumu ghostblade: you might ask why dps item at tank? Active + high gangplank movement speed might be considered as ghost, which have offensive or defensive purpose. -Atma impaler: increases basic damage, with our decent health level, it might be 60+ damage, adds 45 armor, 18% critical strike. Really cost efficient item in late game.
Boots Situational. Sure, your remove scurvy can counter CC, but its only usable each 18 sec (10,8 sec cooldown is reachable with 40% reduction) but still mercury threads are too good to not be viable for gangplank. Other choice is ninja tabi.
And Frozen Brainheart is pretty good on Tankplank too iirc. You also forgot Super Phantom Ninjaplank, which builds Phantom Dancer Phantom Dancer Infinity Edge. It's super pro.
the build i run on gangplank is 21/0/9 armpen/mana per5/magic rez ghost/exhaust-smite-flash
meki B when 1500-> chalice into boots 3 or boots of mob 4x avarice(gives 50% crit i believe) sell chalice when you can afford inf edge then get a giants belt(sell avarice) sell another avarice turn into phantom dancer get mallet
always pump green/red elixir, with belt + elixir you'll have 98% crit iirc(with dancer too, otherwise its near around 80~) basically parley will hit for like 1000 on a squishy with a crit and auto attacks are like 1.4 with 600~ damage crits.
On November 08 2010 05:39 Lunek wrote: Honestly I'm not a big fan of chalice. I might get it, at lower summoner levels, as a alternative to lack mp5 runes.
Avarice blades- 1-2, max. More can put you way behind in mid game, if you will be forced to fight or something, cause they provide only crit.
even with mp5 runes i still run out of mana, parleys cd is so low, that you spam it all the time, and E too
3x avarice blade boots 1 inf edge trinity force elixirs as necessary
- towerhug/lasthit in laning phases, b for mana/health - teleport and farm until you get inf edge, even during team fights, ulting should be enough to stall pushes while you farm and the rest of your team holds - after you have inf edge, join in on team fights and shoot people in the face for 1.2k (~80% crit with green pot) - after you have trinity force, shoot people in the face for 2k (~95% crit with green pot) - pro-tip: pretend you're a veigar that does damage
crit damage< armpen runes. If you take triforce as extra source of damage, you need to know one thing: Base damage is way lower than your actual damage. At level 18 Gangplank has 108 base damage, sheen[triforce] proc gives you additional 108[162] damage, which is diminished by enemy armor (40% damage reduction is reachable naturally by leveling up).
Lets calculate your damage against champions who has 100 armor (you didnt notice you have any source of armor penetration) which is 50% damage reduction.
Parley damage= 150 (skill level 5) + 108 (base damage at level 18) +48 (active raise morale) + 80 (IE) + 20 (triforce) = which is 406 base damage, which can be multiplied by critital damage (250% with IE, 287% if you use reds/quints crit damage) which gives 1015/1165 critical damage. Impressive! Triforce proc gives you additional 162 damage [1177/1327]. These calculations are made without considering 50% damage reduction.
Lets calculate damage from IE, yomumu ghostblade, brutalizer, and armor penetration reds/quints. Summed up flat armor penetrations give 60 armor penetration, which is equal to 40 effective armor, which gives 28% damage protection. 72% damage goes through.
Parley damage=150+108+48+80+30 (yomumu ghostblade) +25 (brutalizer) = 441 base damage * 250% = 1102,5 damage. It looks way lower than parley + triforce proc, but what if you calculate it with armor? 1102,5 * 72%= 793.8, which is about 794 damage.
oh wtf, triforce is only 150% of base damage? man i'm a noob =/
according to my math, similar but with TF = 30dmg, 10% crit dmg mastries, green pot only target with 100 armor: boots + 3x avarice + IE + TF = 690 dmg (98% crit) boots + 2x avarice + IE + ghostblade + bruta = 818 dmg (86% crit)
it's closer if you factor in crit chance. I guess my biggest problem with arpen is that it's harder to itemize after that without giving up more crit%
really minor differences, otherwise I agree with your numbers. I'm guessing ghostblade+atmas or even bloodthirster is better than trinity force after infinity edge
SamuraiPanda... who is a pretty highly rated solo Q Pirate... does a weird fucking build that involves an early Wriggle's Lantern O_O. Dude's builds look so scrubby most of the time, but hey, they tend to work out, so I dunno, there's probably some merit to them.
"ARGHH MATEY. I LUB TO RICE AND EAT APPLES, ARGGGHHHHH" is probably the mentality. Wiggles somehow helps with last hitting creeps and going into the jungle for a bit and ricing even more there after he's overpushed his lane.
So in that way, I can see the merit of Wiggles. I still wouldn't recommend it. Seems a tad gimmicky.
The three times to activate Ghostblade are: 1. When you're chasing/auto attacking an enemy during a team fight. Preferably after all the enemy CC has been blown, so there's nothing to slow/stun/snare you while you chase. 2. When you're beating down a tower 3. To retreat
I think part of the reason he goes wriggles is for super pro RNG shit where he gets the proc on parley and heals like 100+ HP off of the lifesteal so that he can save eating oranges for actually breaking CC.
rofl, that is so true. I didn't even consider the leech on crits for plank.
But I still stand by my gimmickiness of that item on GP. I'll try it out this weekend perhaps. I just feel that delaying your core items after Avarices just forces you to rice even longer to make up for the investment in Wiggle's.
yea, that's the way he is about everything O_O and he's often wrong, but Grag and GP, I've seen him play them and he is good with them so I just ignore the pompousness, hahaha.
On November 09 2010 05:22 Brees wrote: samuraipanda is horrible at gragas and gangplank and every other character, how he broke 1200 elo is beyond me
I remember the players at the 1200 level so that doesn't surprise me, but when he broke up into the 1700+ range it did sorta blow my fucking mind, hahaha.
The wriggles idea is probably similar to the Ez strat used by Voyboy (?), where you use the madreds proc to lifesteal like a mofo. Raise morale on the ward is just icing on the cake.
Can anyone help this poor pre-level 30 scrub with his gangplank? He's really fun to play and gives me an excuse to talk like a pirate in allchat, but I find that the best I do is only average compared with my mains (Nas, Kas, Janna). I follow this guide's build because it seems pretty damn solid but I'm not sure if theres something I'm missing, or if I'm just bad with him. http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/7935-how-to-not-suck-with-gangplank.xhtml
I run 0/9/21 pen/pen/mp5/lv/mp5/lv and open meki -> chalice. One point in E then put points into w/q as needed, with an emphasis on Q to farm teh moneys.
Meki + 2 pot Chalice Boots HoG Avarice Merc Treads Ghostblade Randuins IE Banshee's/Atma's depending on what you need
Sell the Chalice late if you need more slots and get either survivability or a bloodthirster/LW or something.
On December 17 2010 20:17 Wala.Revolution wrote: It's quite amusing when you force someone to go back because you critted twice right after they come in lane...
Ahh good old times when parley applied GP's passive on hit...
Meki (B at 1500 gold for chalice/boots 5) 4x Avarice Sell meki when you get enough for inf edge ghostblade sell 1 avarice-> Mallet(or just a giants belt) Phantom dancer Phantom dancerx2
pumping red/green elixir is like 96% crit with just avarice/inf edge and with all your items you'll be critting for about 800 with parley, and 500 autoattacks, with around 3200 hp.
Thats how i play gangplank, it might not be the best or most efficient but god damn is it fun
I have been wondering, how does Tankplank exactly tank? Since he doesn't really have any tanking/initiation mechanisms, you're just a beefy pirate with a cannon barrage.
Unless you count constant pirate smack talk in /all chat as a way of making the enemy hate you enough to attack you of course :p.
On December 22 2010 02:34 Malderon wrote: I have been wondering, how does Tankplank exactly tank? Since he doesn't really have any tanking/initiation mechanisms, you're just a beefy pirate with a cannon barrage.
Unless you count constant pirate smack talk in /all chat as a way of making the enemy hate you enough to attack you of course :p.
tankplank is just doing a tanky build then throwing in atma's so you do damage as well. sometimes a ghostblade
Cleveradvisor plays a funny varioation by the way, where he lets his enemy push down his first turret and then last hits at his second turret and keeping the minion wave close with raise morale. with the heal and the enemy overextending he farms all day after that.
That's pretty much the whole point of Gangplank actually, so really smart. You want to make sure to get siege/melee creeps though as they give the most experience. And of course, by doing so you ensure that their creep wave pushes so you just farm at tower the whole time and the other guy's overextended and underleveled.
ok, well the only game i played as gangplank, that's what i did, and i got yelled at by my team (solo queue at level 8 ok) and never played him again
it's nice to hear i'm actually the best player in the world, thank you tien. you can be my stalwart but underpowered earth companion anytime. if i need to keep Cell in a hole for 20 minutes i'll give you a call (hint: im goku)
Don't ever listen to the idiots in solo q. They have no idea what they're talking about. Those are the same people who autoattack creeps, pushing their lane, and thinking they're actually doing well because "dude we even pushed them to the tower."
Gangplank is the opposite of these idiots. Kill your own creeps so even if they do autoattack your lane isn't pushed as hard, and you actually DO deny opponent xp without even zoning, which is near impossible in solo q duo lanes. >.>
On December 23 2010 19:04 BlackPaladin wrote: Don't ever listen to the idiots in solo q. They have no idea what they're talking about. Those are the same people who autoattack creeps, pushing their lane, and thinking they're actually doing well because "dude we even pushed them to the tower."
Gangplank is the opposite of these idiots. Kill your own creeps so even if they do autoattack your lane isn't pushed as hard, and you actually DO deny opponent xp without even zoning, which is near impossible in solo q duo lanes. >.>
I literally typed this post, then cancelled thinking "as soon as he gets to 30 those will be distant memories)
But really, whenever you will run into a decent jungler on your team you will be owning so hard because of your lane being pulled winning will become stupidly easy.
On December 23 2010 16:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: ok, well the only game i played as gangplank, that's what i did, and i got yelled at by my team (solo queue at level 8 ok) and never played him again
it's nice to hear i'm actually the best player in the world, thank you tien. you can be my stalwart but underpowered earth companion anytime. if i need to keep Cell in a hole for 20 minutes i'll give you a call (hint: im goku)
Agreeing with everyone here. As an additional tip, you want to take E first, and wait at your nexus. Cap a creep as it comes out, run with the wave, and you can cap another at the end (and I believe still have E off CD when your first siege shows up).
I'm not sure what good GP players do for skill build, but I think it's something like EWWQWR R > W > Q > E.
On December 23 2010 16:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: ok, well the only game i played as gangplank, that's what i did, and i got yelled at by my team (solo queue at level 8 ok) and never played him again
it's nice to hear i'm actually the best player in the world, thank you tien. you can be my stalwart but underpowered earth companion anytime. if i need to keep Cell in a hole for 20 minutes i'll give you a call (hint: im goku)
Agreeing with everyone here. As an additional tip, you want to take E first, and wait at your nexus. Cap a creep as it comes out, run with the wave, and you can cap another at the end (and I believe still have E off CD when your first siege shows up).
I'm not sure what good GP players do for skill build, but I think it's something like EWWQWR R > W > Q > E.
only problem with e at lvl 1 is that it makes you useless for a lvl1 fight, chill in the jungle for a bit without leveling, then if nothing happens, lvl e and go deny @ nexus when creeps spawn. When i fight gp's, i try to force lvl1 fights, kus i know he will be useless since most gp's at my elo immediately lvl e when they spawn.
On December 23 2010 16:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: ok, well the only game i played as gangplank, that's what i did, and i got yelled at by my team (solo queue at level 8 ok) and never played him again
it's nice to hear i'm actually the best player in the world, thank you tien. you can be my stalwart but underpowered earth companion anytime. if i need to keep Cell in a hole for 20 minutes i'll give you a call (hint: im goku)
Agreeing with everyone here. As an additional tip, you want to take E first, and wait at your nexus. Cap a creep as it comes out, run with the wave, and you can cap another at the end (and I believe still have E off CD when your first siege shows up).
I'm not sure what good GP players do for skill build, but I think it's something like EWWQWR R > W > Q > E.
only problem with e at lvl 1 is that it makes you useless for a lvl1 fight, chill in the jungle for a bit without leveling, then if nothing happens, lvl e and go deny @ nexus when creeps spawn. When i fight gp's, i try to force lvl1 fights, kus i know he will be useless since most gp's at my elo immediately lvl e when they spawn.
what would make him not useless in a level one fight?
E's passive is probably better then level 1 fruit or parley tbh lol
On December 23 2010 16:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: ok, well the only game i played as gangplank, that's what i did, and i got yelled at by my team (solo queue at level 8 ok) and never played him again
it's nice to hear i'm actually the best player in the world, thank you tien. you can be my stalwart but underpowered earth companion anytime. if i need to keep Cell in a hole for 20 minutes i'll give you a call (hint: im goku)
Agreeing with everyone here. As an additional tip, you want to take E first, and wait at your nexus. Cap a creep as it comes out, run with the wave, and you can cap another at the end (and I believe still have E off CD when your first siege shows up).
I'm not sure what good GP players do for skill build, but I think it's something like EWWQWR R > W > Q > E.
You can deny 2 minions of the first wave as described (I usually deny one from mid or top first). After that it's basically 1 deny per wave, but the cooldown is actually lower than the wave respawn time (30 secs). So you could run towards your minions and deny earlier until you get a second deny for a wave. Especially awesome if you can time it so that you get to deny a siege minion as the second of the wave since those come at the end of the wave and take a while to go down. The downside is of course that you have to leave the tower for a while, so I don't really know if it's a good thing to do.
If you just deny once per wave, just check the end of the minion line to see if there's a siege minion. Alternatively you can of course count the waves, but a skirmish can throw you off :p
On December 23 2010 19:04 BlackPaladin wrote: Don't ever listen to the idiots in solo q. They have no idea what they're talking about. Those are the same people who autoattack creeps, pushing their lane, and thinking they're actually doing well because "dude we even pushed them to the tower."
Gangplank is the opposite of these idiots. Kill your own creeps so even if they do autoattack your lane isn't pushed as hard, and you actually DO deny opponent xp without even zoning, which is near impossible in solo q duo lanes. >.>
I literally typed this post, then cancelled thinking "as soon as he gets to 30 those will be distant memories)
But really, whenever you will run into a decent jungler on your team you will be owning so hard because of your lane being pulled winning will become stupidly easy.
Autoattacking doesn't really stop at lvl 30, its actually quite common. I'd go as far as to say that its more common that people autoattack than last hit.
When I tell people its smarter to last hit because it makes you safer from ganks and also enables you to zone your opponent, they're like "STFU just play" or "what are you talking about?".
I really do wonder what people are doing all the way up to lvl 30
Only problem I have on gang is if i'm trying to last hit with parley every time its up and deny a creep every cooldown, i go out of mana incredibly fast, even with a meki. Are mp5 runes a huge difference? I'm thinking yes.. so i'll probably have to save up for some
When I played ranged I find pushing a lane can be useful if the tower kills all the mobs and he doesn't get gold, when you got all the last hits, but as a melee or maybe in some cases ranged v ranged it makes sense i guess.
On December 23 2010 19:04 BlackPaladin wrote: Don't ever listen to the idiots in solo q. They have no idea what they're talking about. Those are the same people who autoattack creeps, pushing their lane, and thinking they're actually doing well because "dude we even pushed them to the tower."
Gangplank is the opposite of these idiots. Kill your own creeps so even if they do autoattack your lane isn't pushed as hard, and you actually DO deny opponent xp without even zoning, which is near impossible in solo q duo lanes. >.>
I literally typed this post, then cancelled thinking "as soon as he gets to 30 those will be distant memories)
But really, whenever you will run into a decent jungler on your team you will be owning so hard because of your lane being pulled winning will become stupidly easy.
Autoattacking doesn't really stop at lvl 30, its actually quite common. I'd go as far as to say that its more common that people autoattack than last hit.
When I tell people its smarter to last hit because it makes you safer from ganks and also enables you to zone your opponent, they're like "STFU just play" or "what are you talking about?".
I really do wonder what people are doing all the way up to lvl 30
I was referring to the fact that fakesteve is like the uber community manager lord of razer and a long-time TLer, if he goes hardcore enough to get to lv 30 he'll get duoqueued out of elo hell in an instant.
BTW, completely unrelated: awesome mice bro. I've been a steelseries fan since 2007ish but I wouldn't trade my deathadder for anything in the world. GJ.
On December 23 2010 19:04 BlackPaladin wrote: Don't ever listen to the idiots in solo q. They have no idea what they're talking about. Those are the same people who autoattack creeps, pushing their lane, and thinking they're actually doing well because "dude we even pushed them to the tower."
Gangplank is the opposite of these idiots. Kill your own creeps so even if they do autoattack your lane isn't pushed as hard, and you actually DO deny opponent xp without even zoning, which is near impossible in solo q duo lanes. >.>
I literally typed this post, then cancelled thinking "as soon as he gets to 30 those will be distant memories)
But really, whenever you will run into a decent jungler on your team you will be owning so hard because of your lane being pulled winning will become stupidly easy.
Autoattacking doesn't really stop at lvl 30, its actually quite common. I'd go as far as to say that its more common that people autoattack than last hit.
When I tell people its smarter to last hit because it makes you safer from ganks and also enables you to zone your opponent, they're like "STFU just play" or "what are you talking about?".
I really do wonder what people are doing all the way up to lvl 30
I was referring to the fact that fakesteve is like the uber community manager lord of razer and a long-time TLer, if he goes hardcore enough to get to lv 30 he'll get duoqueued out of elo hell in an instant.
BTW, completely unrelated: awesome mice bro. I've been a steelseries fan since 2007ish but I wouldn't trade my deathadder for anything in the world. GJ.
I got manamune (tabi, merc or swiftness), mallet, atmas, IE, GA / LW / banshees on GP nowadays, I like mallet because it works with parrley (gives you a ranged slow on GP, which is gold since it also stacks with red) If we need more tankyness ill go spirit visage before atmas. But thats my 5 cents, it will probally change again soon.
I've been playing Gangplank for a few months, and I have gotten really frustrated with the builds that are out there for him. I've come up with a new build that I have played about 7 games with now, and I have been doing really well:
Summoner Spells
Ghost and Ignite/Exhaust
I prefer Ignite because you can run in and Q -> Ignite for a kill without putting yourself in too much danger.
Runes
Armor Pen Quints and Reds Magic Resist / Level Blues Health / Level OR Mana Regen / Level Yellows
Masteries
0/16/14
Defense up to 60 health Mana and Move Speed in Util
Skill Order
EQQW then R > Q > E > W
Most people max W second, but I like E because the passive damage helps Sheen/Triforce and the passive speed lets you stay on Lvl 1 boots forever. Just use the W as a cleanse.
Depends on the situation, but Banshee's Veil and Atma's Impaler are what I like
Playstyle
I like to take solo top and deny xp with E. Kill a melee creep for 2 waves and the tank creep every 3rd wave. Then just Q as your mana allows on the squishy champ or to make some money. Use your R when your jungler ganks (top or bottom).
Later run around and poke with Q. Ult team fights and don't be the first one in. And don't forget Ghostblade.
atmas is good on a lot of melee champs because it provides armor and crit, both stats that a large number of melee AD types like to have, plus they like getting some bulkiness, so the hp translates to extra AD, which is pretty nice as well
Yeah atmas is a great item on basically all melee DPS. The best gankplanks I've seen have used a combination of ghostblade, atmas, banshees and IE often in their builds. It's definitely a lot better than critplank imo, or tankplank who doesn't do enough damage overall. I've seen wayyy too many critplanks who have like 1800 HP at lvl 18 and no survivability who can do 1500 damage but are 1 shot themselves. So dumb. Or tankplanks hitting for 50 damage on ashe.
On February 11 2011 11:09 mrgerry wrote: Please for the love of god don't follow how Feel No Fear builds pirate.
quoted for emphasis
personally I play gangplank as an aura whore but to each their own. if you focus on parleying minions instead of champs he can farm extremely quickly and I usually get
I like manamune on Gangplank so you can consistently deny and parley throughout the entire laning phase + it gives damage to make late game really good. None of the boots actually help Gang too much though, maybe merc or lucidity?
On February 12 2011 10:22 Misder wrote: I like manamune on Gangplank so you can consistently deny and parley throughout the entire laning phase + it gives damage to make late game really good. None of the boots actually help Gang too much though, maybe merc or lucidity?
Merc are a must if they have lots of hard disables, cd boots are amazing for his q+w. I just rush chalice for laning, so I can endless spam my skills. Manamune bit too expensive for me.
Meh, you really shouldn't get hard-cc'd enough that you need merc, cos seriously, just eat an orange. CDR boots imo, cos you genuinely suck without spamming your skills for a very long time.
I rush CDR boots + brutalizer (OR spirit visage vs a very hard lane), because you need max CDR so that your ult has more global presence, since god knows you won't be at teamfights, and rely on the fact that you're denying your lane enough so that your global ult + them being gimped is enough to win.
On February 11 2011 05:29 Lunek wrote: Feel no Fear recently starts from double philo stone
jewplank #1...not
Jewplank in the 1v2 lane is probably one of the most fun things. You basically sit on your own tower and by level 11 they are only 6. Then you can just poke and go for a double kill.
If your jungler is bad I suppose you'll lose your tower.
Edit: When I've tried Jewplank, I'm duo queueing with our jungler so that tight teamwork really let's it shine. Haven't had my tower go below 50% in the last few games. Only have lost it to lack of mia calls/bad mini map awareness.
On February 12 2011 10:22 Misder wrote: I like manamune on Gangplank so you can consistently deny and parley throughout the entire laning phase + it gives damage to make late game really good. None of the boots actually help Gang too much though, maybe merc or lucidity?
Merc are a must if they have lots of hard disables, cd boots are amazing for his q+w. I just rush chalice for laning, so I can endless spam my skills. Manamune bit too expensive for me.
my solution is to pick up tear instead of chalice early. then take my time to finish manamune later int he game. lets you get enough mana+manaregen for spamming everything and it upgrades into something better lategame.
If you max scurvy, and they aren't super heavy on long-ranged nukes, you can basically tank the minions so that they never get within range to be hit by the tower even if they push.
On February 15 2011 02:46 Juicyfruit wrote: If you max scurvy, and they aren't super heavy on long-ranged nukes, you can basically tank the minions so that they never get within range to be hit by the tower even if they push.
They just need ranged autoattacks and hit you while you tank the minions? It's not like you can win exchanges via minion aggro... And even if you max scurvy, it heals less than 2/4/6/8/10 autoattacks.
by the time you get to levels 3,4,5 of scurvy you're good to go on for a lonnnnng time. If there's 1 melee top it's way easier as well. 2 ranged champs generally means squishy enough to double kill with jungle ganks.
Wave come every 30 seconds so you get 2 heals off every wave, is good enough.
Have to be a real scrub to lose tower before high level scurvy. This is in the event that there's actually two top and are hard-pushing your tower to begin with, which isn't every game
Why does everyone get gold farming items on gangplank? Just because parley gains extra gold doesn't mean gold farming items are any better or worse than on other characters. Buying 2 philosophers stones and an avarice blade which are mostly useless just to be sold for a minor profit seems like an easy way to gimp your team early game. Also, if you gold farm to god mode you still only have Q that's ranged, and everyone bulds him like a ranged carry so he can be easily focused down.
The way I see it: -Can deny 1 minion per wave. -Farms extra gold with Q -Amazing initiating/counter initiating ultimate. -Remove CC and heal.
Why not play him as a subpar melee tanky DPS, with the benefit of lane denial, extra gold, a decent sniping ability with Q and a good ultimate? Seems like a good duo lane idea. I see all these bullshit builds on him it seems like wasted potential. Especially if you can play him with a strong support so you don't have to just make scurvy and be zoned all game. Your tower will get pushed but you can have a jungler ready to gank since the lane will ALWAYS be pushed.
I personally like tanky builds on GP, and I would love to have some AP early on so I can afk farm and ult randomly with some extra damage... So basically Sheen + tanky... (Full AP didn't work out for me, even with lichbane it's just weak. But the hat sure suits GP)
On February 15 2011 06:16 Slayer91 wrote: Why does everyone get gold farming items on gangplank? Just because parley gains extra gold doesn't mean gold farming items are any better or worse than on other characters. Buying 2 philosophers stones and an avarice blade which are mostly useless just to be sold for a minor profit seems like an easy way to gimp your team early game. Also, if you gold farm to god mode you still only have Q that's ranged, and everyone bulds him like a ranged carry so he can be easily focused down.
The way I see it: -Can deny 1 minion per wave. -Farms extra gold with Q -Amazing initiating/counter initiating ultimate. -Remove CC and heal.
Why not play him as a subpar melee tanky DPS, with the benefit of lane denial, extra gold, a decent sniping ability with Q and a good ultimate? Seems like a good duo lane idea. I see all these bullshit builds on him it seems like wasted potential. Especially if you can play him with a strong support so you don't have to just make scurvy and be zoned all game. Your tower will get pushed but you can have a jungler ready to gank since the lane will ALWAYS be pushed.
Why? Because he's pretty much guaranteed a passive laning phase. Still, I'd rather have heart of gold than philosopher's stones because they'll actually do shit later on.
Ghostblade, Triforce, Banshees, atmas, IE. Best build I've seen on GP so far. Does a ton of damage and isn't 2 shot. Probably one of the better legitimate builds imo.
On February 15 2011 06:55 Mogwai wrote: fuck sheen, get hextech revolver for dat spellvamp on deny, lol. That shit is so cash.
wow does that actually work?
It seems like quite simply every spell triggers vamp. Magic damage, physical damage (I tested that with Volley), and apparently true damage, at least in the case of Raise Morale. AoE only vamps 1/3rd as much, of course.
Gangplanks deny: When he kills a unit you see "1000" above it. Well....So it does 1000 damage always or will it do more if you try to deny, say, a super creep? Would be awesome if you could deny a 3k hp supercreep and gain like 1k life from spellvamp while pushing enemy base lol.
On February 15 2011 19:31 BlackPaladin wrote: Ghostblade, Triforce, Banshees, atmas, IE. Best build I've seen on GP so far. Does a ton of damage and isn't 2 shot. Probably one of the better legitimate builds imo.
Yeah, those 1k crits when you don't get fucked up instantly after shooting them and turning tail.
Too bad it doesn't mean much if you end up as the only source of significant damage on your team
I've been playing lotsa tank-jewplank and if you think about the math it really makes a lot of sense. With the 5 gold/10 items + avarice quints + mastery, you get an extra 174 gold/min. If you hit every creep in every wave, you're capped at approximately 246 gpm (so 306 gpm if you include the natural 60 gpm). If you deny every time it's up, you're going to deny at least 44 gpm from whoever you're laning against (usually more because there are cannon creeps and the cooldown on your E is less than 30 seconds).
If we shift to early-midgame, even if the person laning against you is hitting every single last hit, you'll basically be even with him in terms of farm by hitting only 1-2 creeps per minute. If you're hitting most of the creeps (and using your q), you will basically double your opponent's farm (say you're at around 450-500 gpm while they're at <250 gpm). That is a ridiculous advantage going into later stages of the game (not to mention you're still semi useful to your team with ult >_>).
(Of course I'm not including the gold-scaling of minions)
On February 16 2011 06:51 spinesheath wrote: Afaik you can simply treat Lifesteal as an on-hit effect that heals X% of physical damage dealt and everything is covered.
The secondary bounces on Sivir's Ricochet will lifesteal but do not proc on-hit effects.
On February 16 2011 06:51 spinesheath wrote: Afaik you can simply treat Lifesteal as an on-hit effect that heals X% of physical damage dealt and everything is covered.
The secondary bounces on Sivir's Ricochet will lifesteal but do not proc on-hit effects.
It's because spell vamp and life steal are not on hit effects but are healing effects.
hmm now want to try out if his deny does work with warmogs/BT's. o_o
It is afaik. Ignite like demolishes irelia since it stops both her w (passive healing) and her r (lifesteal) from healing her so much, which is what helps make her so unkillable in some fights. Same can be said for champs like trist, MF, and gangplank who can cause 50% reduced healing effects similar to ignite.
On March 05 2011 06:36 BlackPaladin wrote: It is afaik. Ignite like demolishes irelia since it stops both her w (passive healing) and her r (lifesteal).
Neither of those are lifesteal--they're explicit heals that are part of the spells in question (e.g. Irelia's w heals a flat amount regardless of damage dealt).
On March 05 2011 06:36 BlackPaladin wrote: It is afaik. Ignite like demolishes irelia since it stops both her w (passive healing) and her r (lifesteal).
Neither of those are lifesteal--they're explicit heals that are part of the spells in question (e.g. Irelia's w heals a flat amount regardless of damage dealt).
Lifesteal is also not affected by Spirit Visage.
Sorry, you're right there. Her r is healing as well, not lifesteal. But ignite does affect things like, healing from lvling up. I'm pretty sure it affects lifesteal as well. My really bad friend does a critplank build often and whenever he's ignited he just can't win since his whole strength is criting for like 1000 and lifestealing 500 every hit. When ignited he can't do this and dies pretty quickly. Unless ignite affects this I have no idea what to classify as lifesteal as other than perhaps healing with built in limitations in LoL game engine mechanics.
On February 16 2011 06:51 spinesheath wrote: Afaik you can simply treat Lifesteal as an on-hit effect that heals X% of physical damage dealt and everything is covered.
The secondary bounces on Sivir's Ricochet will lifesteal but do not proc on-hit effects.
It's because spell vamp and life steal are not on hit effects but are healing effects.
hmm now want to try out if his deny does work with warmogs/BT's. o_o
Assuming you kill the minion Raise Morale does work with BT.
On March 05 2011 06:36 BlackPaladin wrote: It is afaik. Ignite like demolishes irelia since it stops both her w (passive healing) and her r (lifesteal).
Neither of those are lifesteal--they're explicit heals that are part of the spells in question (e.g. Irelia's w heals a flat amount regardless of damage dealt).
Lifesteal is also not affected by Spirit Visage.
Sorry, you're right there. Her r is healing as well, not lifesteal. But ignite does affect things like, healing from lvling up. I'm pretty sure it affects lifesteal as well. My really bad friend does a critplank build often and whenever he's ignited he just can't win since his whole strength is criting for like 1000 and lifestealing 500 every hit. When ignited he can't do this and dies pretty quickly. Unless ignite affects this I have no idea what to classify as lifesteal as other than perhaps healing with built in limitations in LoL game engine mechanics.
No, it doesn't. Just tested in custom game, friend took sivir and i took MF, he farmed a BF and 3 scepters, healing was 45 both with and without MF's W applied on her.
On March 05 2011 09:18 BlackPaladin wrote: jassyp and I just tested it and without ignited I'd heal 10/hit but while ignited healed 5/hit.
Tested what? Lifesteal or Irelia's W? Her w is a healing effect and it's affected by healing reduction effects just like TheYango already posted? :-) Lifesteal is not a healing effect and it isn't affected by healing reduction/spirit visage
Just to be clear - Lifesteal is the thing you get from the following items: Doran's blade, Vampiric scepter, all upgrades of Vampiric scepter.
Gangplank is even more broken on TT than he is on Rift because the lanes are so much longer. I like to queue up with a friend of mine and have him play a strong jungle ganker like Shaco or Nunu. I feel pretty bad for the fucker in my lane every time he has to face two level 2 champions while he's stuck at 1.
On March 06 2011 04:44 exo6yte wrote: Gangplank is even more broken on TT than he is on Rift because the lanes are so much longer. I like to queue up with a friend of mine and have him play a strong jungle ganker like Shaco or Nunu. I feel pretty bad for the fucker in my lane every time he has to face two level 2 champions while he's stuck at 1.
except u give up free liz with a gp.. denying. then their jungler will have lizard+ gank when u overextend trying to kill the level 1 ..
Just got GP so I'll bump again for Senx's question. I tried opening boots and pots, then going philo+HoG+Avarice. Finish yomumu's and then I had been planning on going triforce after that but the game didnt last that long. I had also gotten the cdr boots, since mercs didn't seem quite as necessary with his w. Seems like it would be decent in my head, but normals tend to end so quickly so it is hard to tell.
I also had a game where I had enough for warmogs on my first trip back, which is just too much fun to pass up. Teamfights ended up being: charge in, slowly kill one person, my whole team dies, i run away since they still can't kill me. Oh, and I had been maxing w in lane for even more fun times. Once you finish atmas after warmogs you are actually pretty strong, but the game was already lost at that point.
On June 14 2011 15:12 WaveofShadow wrote: Saintvicious streaming jungle GP right now. Just played a game with a jungle GP and I was thinking 'oh god troll' but yeah....he has great self-sustain and a crazy gank with red buff and/or ult.
Looks like you start with vamp scepter but I'm sure you need a good set of runes to do this well and I can't figure out what SV is using...
Start E with vamp scepter, I don't quite know where he starts but I assume double gols.
Yeah that was what he used in that specific game, but it seems as though he chose the wrong runepage, mentioning that is his WW page. He was talking about using attack speed...?
In any case it did seem to go pretty damn well for him. Leveling order: E at 1, W at 2, Q at 3, then R>E>Q>W.
Grog-Soaked Blade No longer reduces healing and regeneration, but now slows movement speed by 7% Now stacks up to 5 times, but duration reduced to 3 seconds from 10 Damage changed to 4-21 from 5-19 Parrrley Fixed a bug where Parrrley could sometimes restore gold to other players Now applies Grog-Soaked Blade Raise Morale duration increased to 7 from 6 Cannon Barrage damage increased to 75/120/165 from 65/110/155
On June 23 2011 14:22 WaveofShadow wrote: I wonder if they'll hotfix him or wait for the next patch? I picked him up today, first time playing, first time jungling, 6/1. Just ridic.
He's strong right now, but I don't think he's hotfix-worthy strong. Honestly, I just expect the next patch to tone down his passive and maybe his E a bit.
Enemy nunu stealed my blue 3 times (the first 3 times it spawned) cause my team wouldn't come help. I still pulled through, once i got wriggles I could do whatever I wanted, instant saved people with ult, stole dragon, etc.
I've been messing around with him. Been doing decent in my first few games.
I'm using as reds and blues, armor yellows, Arpen quints 21/0/9. Start with vamp scepter at wolves, usually wind up clearing around 5:15, level 5 with 700-800 gold depending on how many qs I got.
His ganks are godly ATM, i usually don't even have to get boots 2 until later and just rush phage for unstoppable ganks.
My only problem with him is his inherent squishiness in team fights until you get your tank items. I usually go sheen+phage into Fon/randuins then finish triforce. I also want to try shurelias on him as it feels like it would be amazing with his kit.
After about 4 games of jungle GP i will say that... he's really strong... none of my games have gone further than 25 mins and i've had 1 death in 2 of the games 0 in 1 and 4 deaths in my last game.
Red buff ganks are an autokill at level 4, and as soon as you get phage it doensnt matter if you have red cuz your gonna get a kill, and as soon as you have sheen it doenst matter WHO your gonna kill because q deals like 600 damage a shot. And you never need boots 2.
On June 24 2011 05:02 NeoIllusions wrote: EQEWER, R > E > Q > W or something to this extent. By level four, you want two points in E and one of each of Q W.
Yea this was how I skilled my jungle GP before the patch, haven't tried him after the patch but I'm expecting he's gonna be super broken.
What do you build on jungle gp after wriggles? He needs at least some tankiness just to get so close to people... I'm thinking merc's and then aegis on the side while you build parts of IE? or something?
You can also do shit like sunfire + Banshee's, or like, GA -> PD/IE, or like, Randuin's Omen in there somewhere, or like, whatever so long as you're getting something to make killing you more of a pain in the other team's ass after your triforce. Incidentally, everyone talks about hoa hot n' sexy Sheen or Phage is after wriggles, but I personally like opening with zeal to better abuse my OP passive and zoom around the map.
Only thing is phage makes it so you dont even need red buff to ensure a kill, and sheen basically triples your damage output. Zeal is good, but not as good as the other items.
Last patch, when saint started the mini trend of jungling GP, most other jungle GP I saw opened Zeal first after Wriggle's. Can't really argue against the zoom zoom pow power of a level 3-4 E with all that AS.
But as of this patch, I think Sheen after Wriggle's is the way to go. The burst at level 9-11 is just so redonkulous... Two Sheen procs is like a guaranteed kill tbh.
As for items, I'm really against building IE or any damage items. With his current stats, GP is a bona fide melee DPS carry. He shouldn't be running around, kiting with his Q like in previous patches. E is so strong now, his passive is borderline OP. He needs to run up and chopchop shit up. If you build IE or any DPS item, GP get exploded upon, esp by casters. Atma's is a godsend item for GP. Has Armor and Crit but he f'ing gains AD by building for survivability?
i haven't had a successful jungle GP game yet (wtf at enemy ganking me 3 times before my first route in 2 consecutive games ~.~) but in lane, i highly disagree with the no IE idea.
in top i've been going philo -> sheen -> IE (usually getting IE around 20-22 minutes) and that just seals the game. your Q can hit for 500 on a champ *easily* at that point, which is like half their HP. after that core i finish triforce into either GB + PD or atmog's and swap out my zerkers for mercs. it's been extremely effective thusfar. i really feel like the IE is core though. Q's ability to crit makes it sooooo strong with some decent crit levels (IE + triforce + atma's is like... 60% already).
the thing is guitar... with the latest buffs, you don't have to 1 shot them like that. you just run in and cut them and then they die eventually, 1 way or another. Speccing to 1 shot is silly when your character has a built in super team ghost + built in frozen mallet that also ends up applying a massive DoT. Better to spec to live.
On June 25 2011 03:15 Mogwai wrote: the thing is guitar... with the latest buffs, you don't have to 1 shot them like that. you just run in and cut them and then they die eventually, 1 way or another. Speccing to 1 shot is silly when your character has a built in super team ghost + built in frozen mallet that also ends up applying a massive DoT. Better to spec to live.
Listen to dis man.
Yesterday, my level 12 GP (jungle) 1v1'd a level 12 Jarman (solo top) with blue buff and I won. lolz. I don't recall a time before that where another champion could win a 1v1 vs Jarman.
tl;dr build survivability, pick your fights, always win
i spec runes/masteries beefy 2 HP quints ar/level yellow mr/level blue 0/21/9
with the triforce at level 18 i think i sit at 2.4k health :x plus 100ar/100MRish
i'll try a more tanky build because i do have the tendency to blow up if i get 5-man focused (which usually happens after my first ace in any given game) but i just really really feel like IE is absolute core.
There are a number of guys who could 1v1 jarman. Jax, Olaf, Udyr, WW, Irelia, you know, all the guys who rape at just standing there and fighting.
Also, I mean, the stacking damage on grogsoaked is just soooooo stupid right now. In that fight, you were doing an extra 75 magic damage/hit once it got up to 5 stacks. And if he tried to run: 1. he couldn't cause of the slow and 2. he'd take 2 more ticks of damage because it's a DoT and not just an on-hit proc. For reference, short of AP scaling, Jax's ult gives him 170 damage every 3 attacks at level 12. GP's passive does more per hit proc damage than Jax's ult. GOOD FUCKING IDEA MAKING THE DAMAGE PORTION STACK UP TO 5 TIMES YOU GODDAMN RETARDS!
What exactly is the reasoning on getting Q at level 2 over W on jungle GP? It doesn't seem to speed you up significantly (passive ticks being awkward amounts of damage means a Q won't make most jungle creeps die 1 autoattack sooner), and the 2+ potions you save from W healing are woth more than the 48 gold you earn lasthitting the jungle creeps after blue.
On June 25 2011 03:42 Two_DoWn wrote: If you open e and blue you dont need the w health.
Then buy 2 less potions, use the W healing, and end up 22 gold ahead of where you'd be lasthitting things with Q.
You end with more gold, don't lose speed, and have a cleanse to get out of hairy situations. I don't see what having Q at level 2 gains you in the jungle.
22 gold doesnt put you any closer to anything, especially considering your gonna get boots+a couple pots on first back. plus fast q lets you have the option of a faster gank, and you can start getting extra gold with the q last hits.
On June 25 2011 03:24 gtrsrs wrote: i spec runes/masteries beefy 2 HP quints ar/level yellow mr/level blue 0/21/9
with the triforce at level 18 i think i sit at 2.4k health :x plus 100ar/100MRish
i'll try a more tanky build because i do have the tendency to blow up if i get 5-man focused (which usually happens after my first ace in any given game) but i just really really feel like IE is absolute core.
I spec 21 0 9, standard (offensive jungle) runes.
Except Noc (who can really pick and choose his fights like a boss), I rarely get IE on melee champs because they blow up ezpz
On June 25 2011 03:29 Mogwai wrote: There are a number of guys who could 1v1 jarman. Jax, Olaf, Udyr, WW, Irelia, you know, all the guys who rape at just standing there and fighting.
Also, I mean, the stacking damage on grogsoaked is just soooooo stupid right now. In that fight, you were doing an extra 75 magic damage/hit once it got up to 5 stacks. And if he tried to run: 1. he couldn't cause of the slow and 2. he'd take 2 more ticks of damage because it's a DoT and not just an on-hit proc. For reference, short of AP scaling, Jax's ult gives him 170 damage every 3 attacks at level 12. GP's passive does more per hit proc damage than Jax's ult. GOOD FUCKING IDEA MAKING THE DAMAGE PORTION STACK UP TO 5 TIMES YOU GODDAMN RETARDS!
Udyr WW? I don't think so. Jax Olaf Irelia sure, if you were dumb enough to stand toe to toe vs them starting out with 100% hp each. Assuming Jarman plays smart (Q harass) they shouldn't be able to fight Jarman 1v1.
On June 25 2011 03:39 TheYango wrote: What exactly is the reasoning on getting Q at level 2 over W on jungle GP? It doesn't seem to speed you up significantly (passive ticks being awkward amounts of damage means a Q won't make most jungle creeps die 1 autoattack sooner), and the 2+ potions you save from W healing are woth more than the 48 gold you earn lasthitting the jungle creeps after blue.
It's a preference thing. Extra gold vs extra hp. I don't make a full jungle run before backing with GP. So I choose extra gold. I have a tendency to do everything but red. Heal, buy boots, do Red then gank.
On June 25 2011 04:19 Two_DoWn wrote: 22 gold doesnt put you any closer to anything, especially considering your gonna get boots+a couple pots on first back. plus fast q lets you have the option of a faster gank, and you can start getting extra gold with the q last hits.
Thats my point. That gold isn't extra. Any creeps you kill between levels 2 and 4 can't possibly outweigh the 70 gold you save from using less potions. There are 12 creeps on your side of the jungle after clearing blue. If you Q to lasthit every single one of them, you've only generated 48 gold by the time you hit 4.
Fast gank is a possibility, but does the flexibility of having a gank option at 2-3 outweigh the ability to do a full clear with boots+3pot, vamp, or cloth+2pot+ward?
On June 25 2011 03:29 Mogwai wrote: There are a number of guys who could 1v1 jarman. Jax, Olaf, Udyr, WW, Irelia, you know, all the guys who rape at just standing there and fighting.
Also, I mean, the stacking damage on grogsoaked is just soooooo stupid right now. In that fight, you were doing an extra 75 magic damage/hit once it got up to 5 stacks. And if he tried to run: 1. he couldn't cause of the slow and 2. he'd take 2 more ticks of damage because it's a DoT and not just an on-hit proc. For reference, short of AP scaling, Jax's ult gives him 170 damage every 3 attacks at level 12. GP's passive does more per hit proc damage than Jax's ult. GOOD FUCKING IDEA MAKING THE DAMAGE PORTION STACK UP TO 5 TIMES YOU GODDAMN RETARDS!
Udyr WW? I don't think so. Jax Olaf Irelia sure, if you were dumb enough to stand toe to toe vs them starting out with 100% hp each. Assuming Jarman plays smart (Q harass) they shouldn't be able to fight Jarman 1v1.
oh, if we're assuming smart play than Jarman gets demolished by Rumble, WW, Alistar for sure. I still don't get the circumstances of your 1v1, Jarman has a lot of sustainability issues vs. good attrition heroes in laning and poking and stuff and he loses to a lot of stand there and wail on you characters too. He's a good 1v1er in a lot of situations, but he's not as universally untouchable at it as you're trying to make him sound.
On June 25 2011 03:29 Mogwai wrote: There are a number of guys who could 1v1 jarman. Jax, Olaf, Udyr, WW, Irelia, you know, all the guys who rape at just standing there and fighting.
Also, I mean, the stacking damage on grogsoaked is just soooooo stupid right now. In that fight, you were doing an extra 75 magic damage/hit once it got up to 5 stacks. And if he tried to run: 1. he couldn't cause of the slow and 2. he'd take 2 more ticks of damage because it's a DoT and not just an on-hit proc. For reference, short of AP scaling, Jax's ult gives him 170 damage every 3 attacks at level 12. GP's passive does more per hit proc damage than Jax's ult. GOOD FUCKING IDEA MAKING THE DAMAGE PORTION STACK UP TO 5 TIMES YOU GODDAMN RETARDS!
Udyr WW? I don't think so. Jax Olaf Irelia sure, if you were dumb enough to stand toe to toe vs them starting out with 100% hp each. Assuming Jarman plays smart (Q harass) they shouldn't be able to fight Jarman 1v1.
oh, if we're assuming smart play than Jarman gets demolished by Rumble, WW, Alistar for sure. I still don't get the circumstances of your 1v1, Jarman has a lot of sustainability issues vs. good attrition heroes in laning and poking and stuff and he loses to a lot of stand there and wail on you characters too. He's a good 1v1er in a lot of situations, but he's not as universally untouchable at it as you're trying to make him sound.
He's was/is still pretty godly. I dunno why that Jarman fought me 1v1 but when was the last time a jungler fought a solo 1v1 and won?
On June 25 2011 03:29 Mogwai wrote: There are a number of guys who could 1v1 jarman. Jax, Olaf, Udyr, WW, Irelia, you know, all the guys who rape at just standing there and fighting.
Also, I mean, the stacking damage on grogsoaked is just soooooo stupid right now. In that fight, you were doing an extra 75 magic damage/hit once it got up to 5 stacks. And if he tried to run: 1. he couldn't cause of the slow and 2. he'd take 2 more ticks of damage because it's a DoT and not just an on-hit proc. For reference, short of AP scaling, Jax's ult gives him 170 damage every 3 attacks at level 12. GP's passive does more per hit proc damage than Jax's ult. GOOD FUCKING IDEA MAKING THE DAMAGE PORTION STACK UP TO 5 TIMES YOU GODDAMN RETARDS!
Udyr WW? I don't think so. Jax Olaf Irelia sure, if you were dumb enough to stand toe to toe vs them starting out with 100% hp each. Assuming Jarman plays smart (Q harass) they shouldn't be able to fight Jarman 1v1.
oh, if we're assuming smart play than Jarman gets demolished by Rumble, WW, Alistar for sure. I still don't get the circumstances of your 1v1, Jarman has a lot of sustainability issues vs. good attrition heroes in laning and poking and stuff and he loses to a lot of stand there and wail on you characters too. He's a good 1v1er in a lot of situations, but he's not as universally untouchable at it as you're trying to make him sound.
He's was/is still pretty godly. I dunno why that Jarman fought me 1v1 but when was the last time a jungler fought a solo 1v1 and won?
Every time I played Olaf
I think GP is #1 melee carry right now, all of his skills are awesome. I can even forgive the abysmal dmg on his ultimate. The constant slow is ridiculous.
What do you think, is he a stronger jungler than laner? That's my impression. He can't fight back that well against high damage ranged harass, only if you have a few lucky crit on your parrley.
21-0-9 masteries. Can start blue with cloth armor 5 pots, EQEQ/W and do full path. Vamp scepter path starts at wolves and does all the small camps then buy before blue, QEQE. Dunno what ideal runes are; I just use my default jungle runes which have 12 arpen and rest attack speed in reds/quints, armor seals, scaling mr glyphs. As far as micro, u will want to switch targets to last hit with parrrley but don't worry about spreading the passive as that just slows down your jungle and keeps the mobs alive longer meaning you take unnecessary damage.
Shayuki (3:34): trundle has a pillar that's way better than gangplank ulti Shayuki (3:34): trundle has similiar movespeed buff Shayuki (3:34): and he deals more dmg
Shayuki (3:37): if he builds tanky its better but he has no peeling Shayuki (3:37): NO peeling at all Shayuki (3:37): so he cant play the tank Shayuki (3:37): so its like Shayuki (3:37): carry assassin without a blink Shayuki (3:37): why would you play gangplank in that role instead of akali or irelia? Shayuki (3:38): you need a ton of farm to do the tanky build properly and jungle doesn't get that kind of farm Rawrgnyan (3:38): im fairly certain gps jungle is way faster than akalis and irelias Shayuki (3:39): akali and irelia dont jungle wtf
Rawrgnyan (3:39): DONT EVEN KNOW WHY YOU MENTIONED AKALI AND IRELIA THEN Rawrgnyan (3:39): :S Shayuki (3:39): because they're better carry assassins Rawrgnyan (3:39): shayuki so silly Shayuki (3:39): because that's the role gang would be left with Shayuki (3:39): since he can't peel at all Shayuki (3:39): or he could be aura bot Shayuki (3:39): I guess that works Shayuki (3:39): and that again need a ton of farm
Shayuki (3:40): if you build gangplank as pure dps Shayuki (3:40): hes instantly killed Shayuki (3:40): if you build tanky Shayuki (3:40): you don't accomplish much Goshawk (3:40): no u deal loads Rawrgnyan (3:40): you accomplish alot Shayuki (3:40): you're left with carry assassin role Goshawk (3:40): with triforce Rawrgnyan (3:40): :D Goshawk (3:40): +tank item Rawrgnyan (3:40): your mistaken alot shayuki Shayuki (3:40): but that again is very farm-intensive Shayuki (3:40): ... HD ChopSuey (3:40): triforce,warmogs,atmas,berserkers,IE,PD HD ChopSuey (3:40): is good build Shayuki (3:41): why would you pick gangplank Shayuki (3:41): and not Yi for that build?
Shayuki (3:43): wtf Shayuki (3:43): you're Shayuki (3:43): joking Shayuki (3:44): do you have any idea how much dmg yi deals? Shayuki (3:44): only thing gp has is W Shayuki (3:44): just pick cleanse Shayuki (3:44): done
For real infos: My current build is 21 0 9 (dmg too good for more util, will try it out soon though) Full Arpen/Armor/Mres lvl (Going to try more of the AS builds, but I feel the ArPen just adds SO MUCH DAMAGE and AS isn't that needed)
cloth+5/wriggles/serkers/triforce/giants belt/negatron -> Atmas -> Warmogs -> FoN
Blue -> Clear except red, red, gank.
-The combo of Q/melee slows is just retardedly strong. -Your ulti is a great finisher/support in fights, especially when they're going down botlane. -Don't be a newb and gank without W being up.
Edit: Some quick numbers I got..
Full AS page / cloth+5 = full clear at 3:50, has to b before gank EQWE Full AS page / boots = clear without red, gank in lane with red at 4:45ish EWQ
Yeah I just went 12-4-17 and carried my team hard, even though they took our blue at beginning and WW ganked me and killed me at my red, + took my red. Then I died again at level 6 in a team fight.
So far Ive got GP 3-4 times since buff, and each time ive been messed with in my jungle, and ganked at least once, and each time it hasn't really mattered I've still been wrecking with him.
GP feels like a really slow jungler to me, clocking 40 seconds slower than my Rammus and Amumu in reaching level 5. No AoE + backloaded damage = he takes forever to kill wolves and wraiths.
This is with 21-0-9 masteries, AS marks & quints, and EQW initial skill order.
i think shayuki is right. jungle gp probably works really well in normals for people that are at high elo because its unexpected and you can gank as early as level 2 and just snowball. but he has no role.
gangplanks skills are all speed based. they slow people down or speed them up. if you're fighting in a close quarters teamfight, who fucking cares? think of how helpful zilean's 2 slowing/speedup moves are in teamfights. distance doesnt matter as much as silence/stun now that every melee has a gap closer.
however he could be amazing in combination with someone like janna that literally splits their whole team up. and he definitely is good early game, which could give him a role kind of like nunu. maybe he should actually turn into an aura bot late game.
Post above me is crazy. Gangplank has probably the SICKEST teambuff. He essentially has sivir's ULTIMATE as his e. They nerfed warwick's w because it was too good and gangplank gives his teammates a speed buff on top of that? Don't try to tell me that it's not good, it's amazing.
GP is a ranged carry late game and that's why he's so OP.
The best jungle route I've found so far is blue with leash -> wolf -> wraith -> stones going eweq then R>E>Q=W, but I open vamp scepter and run something like 16/0/14 with a full aspd page.
On June 27 2011 08:00 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Post above me is crazy. Gangplank has probably the SICKEST teambuff. He essentially has sivir's ULTIMATE as his e. They nerfed warwick's w because it was too good and gangplank gives his teammates a speed buff on top of that? Don't try to tell me that it's not good, it's amazing.
GP is a ranged carry late game and that's why he's so OP.
The best jungle route I've found so far is blue with leash -> wolf -> wraith -> stones going eweq then R>E>Q=W, but I open vamp scepter and run something like 16/0/14 with a full aspd page.
I wouldn't level W beyond level 1. Q/E just so much better and the main thing of W is it's cleanse effect.
What's your reasoning for E > Q?
And I guess I finally have to try vampscepter, not sure how solid the cleartime is yet. If you do it, it's prolly fine tho. =P
@Attakijing: A role like nunu? Aurabot? Wat?
Nunus role is to buff carries and debuff divers. That's ALL he does lategame. (Which also is why, imho, he's a crap pick after the Q nerf.)
GP has sick AD scaling, can't be CC'd, buffs the team and his ult is more solid than people make it seem to be. (Though the true way to use it is to farm some minionwave your carry is running towards. Or to kill someone who is about to get dived to "secure" the kill. Trollol.)
GP has the speed himself to get to his target (u can't cc him properly, remember?) then slows his target while doing insane amounts of damage and sticks to that target cause it's permaslowed. Not to mention the random Q's here and there to whatever squishy target he pleases cause it will be close enough.
Using W too early is a huge mistake I see alot of the fotm GPs make. Make sure you safe it for that make-or-break-cc that's keeping you off your target, not for the first random stun you encounter cause LOL I CAN. The later you use it, the better.
On June 27 2011 08:00 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Post above me is crazy. Gangplank has probably the SICKEST teambuff. He essentially has sivir's ULTIMATE as his e. They nerfed warwick's w because it was too good and gangplank gives his teammates a speed buff on top of that? Don't try to tell me that it's not good, it's amazing.
GP is a ranged carry late game and that's why he's so OP.
The best jungle route I've found so far is blue with leash -> wolf -> wraith -> stones going eweq then R>E>Q=W, but I open vamp scepter and run something like 16/0/14 with a full aspd page.
On June 27 2011 07:42 Attakijing wrote: gangplanks skills are all speed based. they slow people down or speed them up. if you're fighting in a close quarters teamfight, who fucking cares? think of how helpful zilean's 2 slowing/speedup moves are in teamfights. distance doesnt matter as much as silence/stun now that every melee has a gap closer.
"close quarters teamfights" only happen at lower skill levels. At higher levels, slows and move speed buffs are huge because people aren't just jumping in and facerolling QWER until they are dead. This is especially true for the increasingly popular EU setup where pretty much everyone is best off moving in and out of fights constantly.
On June 27 2011 08:00 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Post above me is crazy. Gangplank has probably the SICKEST teambuff. He essentially has sivir's ULTIMATE as his e. They nerfed warwick's w because it was too good and gangplank gives his teammates a speed buff on top of that? Don't try to tell me that it's not good, it's amazing.
GP is a ranged carry late game and that's why he's so OP.
The best jungle route I've found so far is blue with leash -> wolf -> wraith -> stones going eweq then R>E>Q=W, but I open vamp scepter and run something like 16/0/14 with a full aspd page.
I wouldn't level W beyond level 1. Q/E just so much better and the main thing of W is it's cleanse effect.
Active Movement Speed Bonus: 14 / 18 / 22 / 26 / 30 %
Also, W gains a TON of hp per heal per level as opposed to parrrley which gains like 25 ad. Parrrley is still one of your primary sources of dps though so I do level it evenly depending on how the game is going.
I'm pretty sad that I'm still better with Yi than with GP... guess I really need to learn to switch my mindset for different heroes.
What kind of mindset should I have when I play GP?
Things like ganking Vs. farming, Solo pushing Vs teamfights, etc etc. Cause atm I'm thinking my Yi mentality is the exact opposite of what I should be aiming to do with GP.
Oh, and also - counterjungling. Where does GP fit into the scheme of things (I.e. trying to counter jungle your opponent as opposed to being counter jungled). Worth trying to counter jungle? better off ganking? Look to ambush your opponent in jungle? (This is assuming jungle GP).
On June 28 2011 12:31 Dgiese wrote: I'm pretty sad that I'm still better with Yi than with GP... guess I really need to learn to switch my mindset for different heroes.
What kind of mindset should I have when I play GP?
Things like ganking Vs. farming, Solo pushing Vs teamfights, etc etc. Cause atm I'm thinking my Yi mentality is the exact opposite of what I should be aiming to do with GP.
Oh, and also - counterjungling. Where does GP fit into the scheme of things (I.e. trying to counter jungle your opponent as opposed to being counter jungled). Worth trying to counter jungle? better off ganking? Look to ambush your opponent in jungle? (This is assuming jungle GP).
I'm not entirely sure what your mindset for Yi is, for me it includes:
-Ignore ally pre6+red, unless a gank seems fuckeasy without those -Farm like a boss. -Splitpush like a boss. -Wait till major CC is blown, then roll in like a boss and clean those squshies.
For GP it's more like: -Gank like a boss, sometimes as early as level 2. You hit like a truck and have a built in slow. -Farming? Farm champions, not creeps. I mostly just try to grab my junglecreeps while running from gank to gank. -Splitpush? Trollol. Just don't. However, keep in mind your ulti is a "free get out of jail card" for any tower with a pushed wave. -In teamfights you poke all day with Q. Also you can afford to stick to priority targets asap. Flash + W get's you completely clear of almost all engagments just to roll in again. I actually really like to soak up lot's of CC, even if it's just to blow cooldowns. If people blow like 2-3 CCs on me (which happens vs weird people) your team can be a lot more aggressive while you took no harm from it.
-Counterjungling: ...I have not yet tried Wraithjack -> Wolves -> Blue type of stuff, but I'm pretty sure it works. ...Apart from that I stick to clearing my own jungle as fast as possible and simply outgank the enemy jungle. ...I usually (I'm doing that on almost all junglers, but GP shines there) get their blue warded and try to gank the enemy jungle there with my team the second time it spawns. (7:20 is the magic number for starters at blue). I feel GP can 1n1 pretty much any other jungler AND be like "trollololol I'm safe" if he gets caught thx to Flash+W. ...Keep in mind standard counterjungling like abusing if the enemy jungle is on the wrong side of the map when his buffs spawn (keep those timers in your head!)
On June 28 2011 12:31 Dgiese wrote: I'm pretty sad that I'm still better with Yi than with GP... guess I really need to learn to switch my mindset for different heroes.
What kind of mindset should I have when I play GP?
Things like ganking Vs. farming, Solo pushing Vs teamfights, etc etc. Cause atm I'm thinking my Yi mentality is the exact opposite of what I should be aiming to do with GP.
Oh, and also - counterjungling. Where does GP fit into the scheme of things (I.e. trying to counter jungle your opponent as opposed to being counter jungled). Worth trying to counter jungle? better off ganking? Look to ambush your opponent in jungle? (This is assuming jungle GP).
Not sure GP is really ideal for counterjungling the way dedicated counterjunglers like Nunu are.
GP counterjungling consists of standard wraithjack and standard jungle-invade-when-enemy-jungler-is-in-lane-on-other-side-of-map type stuff. GP should focus on ganking and levels.
I feel like a good version Yi when I play GP. If I feel I could gank somewhere, the chances of success are much higher BECAUSE
- I can use flash AND have a huge speed bonus with E. I feel that Yi needs the ghost pre6 to have any chance to gank against decent opponents. - I slow the opponents even without red, when I use Highlander with Yi I can hit the opponents but the buddies often lag behind. Meanwhile GP's E speeds them up too! - I can gank earlier thanks to the better jungle run. - With Yi, even when I was in a good position to have a gank, getting CCed usually meant that the gank would be unsuccessful.
I also counterjungle a lot, because it's quite hard to get caught, but not in early levels. I'm a carry and not nunu whose only purpose is the distraction of the opposing team. I don't feel it's worth gimping myself just to fuck with my opponent, I scale better than them in the end. But later, when I see an opportunity to clear the other jungle, I do it. Especially the buffs. If you have Flash up, they will never gonna catch you. It's like an escaping nunu with built in QSS. They are slowed, you speed yourself up and remove any slows on yourself.
Whatever you do, just don't waste time sitting in a bush waiting for a never coming gank possibility..
Solo pushing vs teamfights:
You are good at both. Use your own judgement. You simply have more possibilities than when you play Yi, because he usually started sucking at the latter in mid-late game. In early mid game, Yi is a better pusher thanks to the maxed alpha strike, but you will be almost as fast as him when you get your damage items. Your advantage to Yi is that 1) you can assist your teammates with your ultimate across the map 2) you can fight / flee more economically when they come for you thanks to the fact that your W and E aren't ultimates. A fleeing Yi often has to burn his long CD ultimate just to get away, which is something I've never liked.
On June 28 2011 14:53 IntoTheWow wrote: What runes do you guys run, and what masteries?
Im currently at:
14% AS and 12 armor Pen with a combination of Quints and Reds. flat armor yellows MR/lvl blues
16/0/14
Sometimes I open Vamp Scepter: Wolves -> Wraiths (smite) -> blue golems (pill and start again from blue with cloth armor + 2x pots)
or
Cloth + 5x pots regular blue wolves etc etc.
If I go VampScept I got QEQ, if i open cloth I go EQE
Anyone experimented more?
I like 21/0/9 to improve my critical strikes, 1 point to buff mastery on utility tree. To be honest I only do the standard armor opening, starting at blue.
Instead of MR I use attackspeed on blue rune slots.
Counterjungling feels awkward on GP just because how his kit is not suited to small camps. His passive lets him clear buffs like a boss, but taking 14 autoattacks or 9 autoattacks + Smite to clear Wraiths, for example, is way too long to be safe.
Glad to know ive been playing GP for ages and now he's finally as good as i always felt he should be
Fuck yeah imba passive slow
Okay so i just tried jungling after thinking it was a troll and it was actually surprisingly fun
20/0/10 flash/smite eqewqr
i went cloth + 5 pots(w/ leash) wolves wraiths twins b get red-> gank
I was thinking maybe..
wriggles + merc(maybe swifties? i dunno) is going for sheen or perhaps a ghostblade better than just rushing iedge?
I usually always get a triforce on him but would going for maybe bruta first then sheen be good?
I was basically skimming the thread because i wanted to try it so bad but i was kind at a loss for what to build. I went sheen that time, didnt seem too bad.
cloth+5 into boots 1 into triforce. You dont need boots 2 until after triforce because of the passive on w. After that just build tank. If the game is still even going that is.
On June 28 2011 23:37 Two_DoWn wrote: cloth+5 into boots 1 into triforce. You dont need boots 2 until after triforce because of the passive on w. After that just build tank. If the game is still even going that is.
I tried phage first, i like it.
That imba slow is loltastic. Phage -> Sheen then zeal?
On June 28 2011 23:37 Two_DoWn wrote: cloth+5 into boots 1 into triforce. You dont need boots 2 until after triforce because of the passive on w. After that just build tank. If the game is still even going that is.
I tried phage first, i like it.
That imba slow is loltastic. Phage -> Sheen then zeal?
On June 28 2011 23:37 Two_DoWn wrote: cloth+5 into boots 1 into triforce. You dont need boots 2 until after triforce because of the passive on w. After that just build tank. If the game is still even going that is.
I tried phage first, i like it.
That imba slow is loltastic. Phage -> Sheen then zeal?
no madred's/wriggles?
Yes i get wriggles, i figured it was a given so i didnt include it, lol.
Tankplank is pretty oldschool, it's basically warmogs or sunfire + atmas and a bunch of stuff like Banshees/Visage/Randuins for cooldowns and more fruiting.
This may not be good advice (I've never actually tried this in a ranked game) but I like to get Leviathan on Tankplank because he can rack up assists really easily with his ult.
On June 30 2011 05:36 Crucifix wrote: Tanky GP no fun. 1 crit = half hp is fun !
Killing them with your passive and them not doing any damage to you is even funner. Tankplank is awesome :0
Leviathan is always a stupid choice imo and never worth purchasing. Even when you get it to 20 stacks it isn't even that great of an item since it's just pure hitpoints. Better off just saving up for a warmogs. A giant belt is cheaper and will give you a lot more hp initially.
GP is probably one of the most OP champs in the game. The changes to his passive made him really really strong. He's an amazing jungler with really powerful gank potential. Not only that, but his global ult gives you good map presence and his old deny ability now basically gives your team free +damage and movespeed stats, which is amazing.
On August 16 2011 17:46 Ryuu314 wrote: heh. TL LoL goes mainstream and we get this x]]]
GP is probably one of the most OP champs in the game. The changes to his passive made him really really strong. He's an amazing jungler with really powerful gank potential. Not only that, but his global ult gives you good map presence and his old deny ability now basically gives your team free +damage and movespeed stats, which is amazing.
Well, I had read everywhere he was a good char on 5 months old topics and when I read the changelogs I just saw nerfs to him. You know, we aren't all obliged to be aware of this game's tier list, especially since it changes every day week it seems.
Where can I find up to date information on this char and his builds ?
On August 16 2011 17:46 Ryuu314 wrote: heh. TL LoL goes mainstream and we get this x]]]
GP is probably one of the most OP champs in the game. The changes to his passive made him really really strong. He's an amazing jungler with really powerful gank potential. Not only that, but his global ult gives you good map presence and his old deny ability now basically gives your team free +damage and movespeed stats, which is amazing.
Well, I had read everywhere he was a good char on 5 months old topics and when I read the changelogs I just saw nerfs to him. You know, we aren't all obliged to be aware of this game's tier list, especially since it changes every day week it seems.
Where can I find up to date information on this char and his builds ?
He wasn't nerfed, he was changed.
His ulti was reduced in size and intensified at the same time, his passive was improved because he lost deny. His attack speed, attack range and armor/lvl were all improved aswell.
Because he was the only one who could deny, it was very hard to balance him. They had to make him a worse champion than others, because deny is such a powerful mechanic. So it was way easier to just remove that mechanic and balance him like every other champ, and thus removing the only deny in the whole game.
On August 16 2011 17:46 Ryuu314 wrote: heh. TL LoL goes mainstream and we get this x]]]
GP is probably one of the most OP champs in the game. The changes to his passive made him really really strong. He's an amazing jungler with really powerful gank potential. Not only that, but his global ult gives you good map presence and his old deny ability now basically gives your team free +damage and movespeed stats, which is amazing.
Well, I had read everywhere he was a good char on 5 months old topics and when I read the changelogs I just saw nerfs to him. You know, we aren't all obliged to be aware of this game's tier list, especially since it changes every day week it seems.
Where can I find up to date information on this char and his builds ?
The last couple pages have some pretty good information/builds.
While the last patches do seem like nerfs, the reality of gangplank is that he was always secretly overpowered, but people didn't really realize it. Then when Riot changed his passive to the stacking slow/DoT, his power went over the top and became a top tier champion.
Generally, you want to build Gangplank with either Q or E max, with one level of W at 2 or 4. R whenever you can. Good items on gangplank are Triforce, Wriggle's Lantern, Force of Atmogs ( Force of Nature+Warmogs+Atmas). Sometimes people may get Infinite Edge or Ghostblade, but generally, melee champions should be built rather tanky with only 1-2 dps items, which will usually be a Triforce/Gunblade, basically dps items with well-rounded stats that provide great utility.
I wouldn't agree with your masteries and runes Lunek. Especially with glyphs and seals. In League of Legends, champions don't need high mana regeneration from runes at the later stages of the game, because they have high mana even without any items and also a pretty good mana regeneration. And you can also take a blue buff. With 9 seals of clarity you get about 9-10 mana regen on 18 level, and with glyphs you get 9-10 mana regen too. That is definitely too many, so that means that they are useless in the late game unless your mana management is very bad. 0.4 mana regen/5 seals are very good, because they give you 3.7, almost 4 mana regen per 5 right after start of the game and additionally with meki pendant which one the best options for a starting item on Gangplank you have very high mana regen that you need in the beginning. Thanks to them you can easily spam your spells and last-hit creeps with Parrley on level 1. Armor penetration quints are very good, I think that you don't need health runes. Magic resistance glyphs are tremendously good, because they give you 13 magic resist so that you are not a piece of paper to casters, very useful. Cooldown reduction glyphs are pretty good too, especially for Gangplank's Parrley, which is the main source of damage. Lastly, Marks. You can either armor pen. marks or damage marks. Both are pretty good. I go 21/0/9 on Gangplank, because I get 3% cooldown reduction, 10% more damage from crits, more damage, more experience and 15% higher duration of buffs, etc. I start with: 1. Meki Pendant + 2HP Potions 2. Then I get boots of speed and tear of the goddes, and maybe a ward if I'm solo and a hp pot (it depends) 3. I finish my boots (Ionian Boots of Lucidity) and my Manamune, which gives me nice dmg boost. 4. Then I go straight into Infinity Edge, then Bloodthirster (you can get Vampiric Scepter sooner for a nice lifesteal) 5. And then I get other items such as Banshee's, Phantom Dancer (it is great not because it gives him attack speed, but 30% crit chance!!!), etc. With his Infinity Edge, Manamune and boots finished, Gangplank can start to do a LOT of damage. I max Parrley and Raise Morale for maximum amount of damage, and on fourth level I get Remove Scurvy for anti CC (of course if I'm being raped and I have a lot of CC on my lane I prefer maxing Remove Scurvy and Parrley to keep distance with farming and to heal myself easily). That's how I play Gangplank .
On August 16 2011 21:02 Ziemson wrote: I wouldn't agree with your masteries and runes Lunek. Especially with glyphs and seals. In League of Legends, champions don't need high mana regeneration from runes at the later stages of the game, because they have high mana even without any items and also a pretty good mana regeneration. And you can also take a blue buff. With 9 seals of clarity you get about 9-10 mana regen on 18 level, and with glyphs you get 9-10 mana regen too. That is definitely too many, so that means that they are useless in the late game unless your mana management is very bad. 0.4 mana regen/5 seals are very good, because they give you 3.7, almost 4 mana regen per 5 right after start of the game and additionally with meki pendant which one the best options for a starting item on Gangplank you have very high mana regen that you need in the beginning. Thanks to them you can easily spam your spells and last-hit creeps with Parrley on level 1. Armor penetration quints are very good, I think that you don't need health runes. Magic resistance glyphs are tremendously good, because they give you 13 magic resist so that you are not a piece of paper to casters, very useful. Cooldown reduction glyphs are pretty good too, especially for Gangplank's Parrley, which is the main source of damage. Lastly, Marks. You can either armor pen. marks or damage marks. Both are pretty good. I go 21/0/9 on Gangplank, because I get 3% cooldown reduction, 10% more damage from crits, more damage, more experience and 15% higher duration of buffs, etc. I start with: 1. Meki Pendant + 2HP Potions 2. Then I get boots of speed and tear of the goddes, and maybe a ward if I'm solo and a hp pot (it depends) 3. I finish my boots (Ionian Boots of Lucidity) and my Manamune, which gives me nice dmg boost. 4. Then I go straight into Infinity Edge, then Bloodthirster (you can get Vampiric Scepter sooner for a nice lifesteal) 5. And then I get other items such as Banshee's, Phantom Dancer (it is great not because it gives him attack speed, but 30% crit chance!!!), etc. With his Infinity Edge, Manamune and boots finished, Gangplank can start to do a LOT of damage. I max Parrley and Raise Morale for maximum amount of damage, and on fourth level I get Remove Scurvy for anti CC (of course if I'm being raped and I have a lot of CC on my lane I prefer maxing Remove Scurvy and Parrley to keep distance with farming and to heal myself easily). That's how I play Gangplank .
Please make sure to read the full OP before posting... cause...: Last edit: 2010-11-05 21:29:18
OP is one of the older ones and no one bothered to make one to the updated guidelines yet.
On your comments:
-Blue buff shouldnt be on GP, it should be on your AP carry -AD runes on GP are bad because they dont really help you buttrape lane. ArPen (lane) or AS (jungle) much better.
-Tear is a horrible item on GP. Why? You don't need the manapool, you cant get it charged quickly and it does not offer any kind of sustain which is almost neccessary for top lane.
-Manamune into CDR Boots into IE into PD is a horrible build. Why? 'cause you're a melee dps, and melee dps is in (hurrdurr) MELEE RANGE aka they need to be beefy to deal out their damage.
The cookie-cutter standard GP solo top atm is: 21 0 9 or 0 9 21 (I prefer the first for easy lanes I can bully (e.g. Nasus) and the latter for closer lanes (e.g. Lee Sin))
Arpen / Armor / Mres/lvl / ArpPen
Open Boots+3 or Regrowth+1 Philo Boots (CDR/serkers if possible, Mercs if needed) Warmogs -> (Negatron if neeed) -> Atmas. ----> FoN --------------> Ghostblade/Triforce/Whatever you need.
Triforce into tanky items is viable when you're snowballing and don't need to be as tanky. Your burst will be higher and you do more damage quicker but it's not that great if they can just focus you down. Personally I recommend Triforce over Warmogs in "fast-paced games" where kills happen and towers drop all day.
Please make sure your posts in this area aren't what works in random normal games but on a medium to high ranked level. No one cares about pubstomp builds. (which yours clearly is)
On August 16 2011 21:02 Ziemson wrote: I wouldn't agree with your masteries and runes Lunek. Especially with glyphs and seals. In League of Legends, champions don't need high mana regeneration from runes at the later stages of the game, because they have high mana even without any items and also a pretty good mana regeneration. And you can also take a blue buff. With 9 seals of clarity you get about 9-10 mana regen on 18 level, and with glyphs you get 9-10 mana regen too. That is definitely too many, so that means that they are useless in the late game unless your mana management is very bad. 0.4 mana regen/5 seals are very good, because they give you 3.7, almost 4 mana regen per 5 right after start of the game and additionally with meki pendant which one the best options for a starting item on Gangplank you have very high mana regen that you need in the beginning. Thanks to them you can easily spam your spells and last-hit creeps with Parrley on level 1. Armor penetration quints are very good, I think that you don't need health runes. Magic resistance glyphs are tremendously good, because they give you 13 magic resist so that you are not a piece of paper to casters, very useful. Cooldown reduction glyphs are pretty good too, especially for Gangplank's Parrley, which is the main source of damage. Lastly, Marks. You can either armor pen. marks or damage marks. Both are pretty good. I go 21/0/9 on Gangplank, because I get 3% cooldown reduction, 10% more damage from crits, more damage, more experience and 15% higher duration of buffs, etc. I start with: 1. Meki Pendant + 2HP Potions 2. Then I get boots of speed and tear of the goddes, and maybe a ward if I'm solo and a hp pot (it depends) 3. I finish my boots (Ionian Boots of Lucidity) and my Manamune, which gives me nice dmg boost. 4. Then I go straight into Infinity Edge, then Bloodthirster (you can get Vampiric Scepter sooner for a nice lifesteal) 5. And then I get other items such as Banshee's, Phantom Dancer (it is great not because it gives him attack speed, but 30% crit chance!!!), etc. With his Infinity Edge, Manamune and boots finished, Gangplank can start to do a LOT of damage. I max Parrley and Raise Morale for maximum amount of damage, and on fourth level I get Remove Scurvy for anti CC (of course if I'm being raped and I have a lot of CC on my lane I prefer maxing Remove Scurvy and Parrley to keep distance with farming and to heal myself easily). That's how I play Gangplank .
Please make sure to read the full OP before posting... cause...: Last edit: 2010-11-05 21:29:18
OP is one of the older ones and no one bothered to make one to the updated guidelines yet.
On your comments:
-Blue buff shouldnt be on GP, it should be on your AP carry -AD runes on GP are bad because they dont really help you buttrape lane. ArPen (lane) or AS (jungle) much better.
-Tear is a horrible item on GP. Why? You don't need the manapool, you cant get it charged quickly and it does not offer any kind of sustain which is almost neccessary for top lane.
-Manamune into CDR Boots into IE into PD is a horrible build. Why? 'cause you're a melee dps, and melee dps is in (hurrdurr) MELEE RANGE aka they need to be beefy to deal out their damage.
The cookie-cutter standard GP solo top atm is: 21 0 9 or 0 9 21 (I prefer the first for easy lanes I can bully (e.g. Nasus) and the latter for closer lanes (e.g. Lee Sin))
Arpen / Armor / Mres/lvl / ArpPen
Open Boots+3 or Regrowth+1 Philo Boots (CDR/serkers if possible, Mercs if needed) Warmogs -> (Negatron if neeed) -> Atmas. ----> FoN --------------> Ghostblade/Triforce/Whatever you need.
Triforce into tanky items is viable when you're snowballing and don't need to be as tanky. Your burst will be higher and you do more damage quicker but it's not that great if they can just focus you down. Personally I recommend Triforce over Warmogs in "fast-paced games" where kills happen and towers drop all day.
Please make sure your posts in this area aren't what works in random normal games but on a medium to high ranked level. No one cares about pubstomp builds. (which yours clearly is)
I know, that AP should always get a blue buff, but I mentioned that you can also take a blue buff, not that you have to. Armor penetration marks are better, I agree. I wouldn't agree that Tear is a bad item. Thanks to this you can spam your Parrley all the time, and that means you get more gold from killing minons. And you CHARGE it pretty quickly. I hardly ever get Phantom Dancer and I said it was only for crit chance and movement speed. Gangplank is not a meele dps. What gives him ability to be meele dps? His 'e' ability? With Parrley he can keep the distance and crit with IE for 1000+ damage. Seriously, I don't know, how he can be meele dps with his devastating Parrley.
Most ranged dps in the game have autoattacks with a cooldown that's a bit shorter than 5 seconds. Even accounting for the extra damage from Q you're not going to deal great damage with Gangplank unless you actually go whack someone with your sword.
Yes, but you don't actually need tremendously huge attack speed, because when you hit a guy with Parrley it's mostly going to be critical. Then you can start hitting him in a meele fight, w8 for Parrley and then shoot him again.
On August 16 2011 21:02 Ziemson wrote: I wouldn't agree with your masteries and runes Lunek. Especially with glyphs and seals. In League of Legends, champions don't need high mana regeneration from runes at the later stages of the game, because they have high mana even without any items and also a pretty good mana regeneration. And you can also take a blue buff. With 9 seals of clarity you get about 9-10 mana regen on 18 level, and with glyphs you get 9-10 mana regen too. That is definitely too many, so that means that they are useless in the late game unless your mana management is very bad. 0.4 mana regen/5 seals are very good, because they give you 3.7, almost 4 mana regen per 5 right after start of the game and additionally with meki pendant which one the best options for a starting item on Gangplank you have very high mana regen that you need in the beginning. Thanks to them you can easily spam your spells and last-hit creeps with Parrley on level 1. Armor penetration quints are very good, I think that you don't need health runes. Magic resistance glyphs are tremendously good, because they give you 13 magic resist so that you are not a piece of paper to casters, very useful. Cooldown reduction glyphs are pretty good too, especially for Gangplank's Parrley, which is the main source of damage. Lastly, Marks. You can either armor pen. marks or damage marks. Both are pretty good. I go 21/0/9 on Gangplank, because I get 3% cooldown reduction, 10% more damage from crits, more damage, more experience and 15% higher duration of buffs, etc. I start with: 1. Meki Pendant + 2HP Potions 2. Then I get boots of speed and tear of the goddes, and maybe a ward if I'm solo and a hp pot (it depends) 3. I finish my boots (Ionian Boots of Lucidity) and my Manamune, which gives me nice dmg boost. 4. Then I go straight into Infinity Edge, then Bloodthirster (you can get Vampiric Scepter sooner for a nice lifesteal) 5. And then I get other items such as Banshee's, Phantom Dancer (it is great not because it gives him attack speed, but 30% crit chance!!!), etc. With his Infinity Edge, Manamune and boots finished, Gangplank can start to do a LOT of damage. I max Parrley and Raise Morale for maximum amount of damage, and on fourth level I get Remove Scurvy for anti CC (of course if I'm being raped and I have a lot of CC on my lane I prefer maxing Remove Scurvy and Parrley to keep distance with farming and to heal myself easily). That's how I play Gangplank .
Please make sure to read the full OP before posting... cause...: Last edit: 2010-11-05 21:29:18
OP is one of the older ones and no one bothered to make one to the updated guidelines yet.
On your comments:
-Blue buff shouldnt be on GP, it should be on your AP carry -AD runes on GP are bad because they dont really help you buttrape lane. ArPen (lane) or AS (jungle) much better.
-Tear is a horrible item on GP. Why? You don't need the manapool, you cant get it charged quickly and it does not offer any kind of sustain which is almost neccessary for top lane.
-Manamune into CDR Boots into IE into PD is a horrible build. Why? 'cause you're a melee dps, and melee dps is in (hurrdurr) MELEE RANGE aka they need to be beefy to deal out their damage.
The cookie-cutter standard GP solo top atm is: 21 0 9 or 0 9 21 (I prefer the first for easy lanes I can bully (e.g. Nasus) and the latter for closer lanes (e.g. Lee Sin))
Arpen / Armor / Mres/lvl / ArpPen
Open Boots+3 or Regrowth+1 Philo Boots (CDR/serkers if possible, Mercs if needed) Warmogs -> (Negatron if neeed) -> Atmas. ----> FoN --------------> Ghostblade/Triforce/Whatever you need.
Triforce into tanky items is viable when you're snowballing and don't need to be as tanky. Your burst will be higher and you do more damage quicker but it's not that great if they can just focus you down. Personally I recommend Triforce over Warmogs in "fast-paced games" where kills happen and towers drop all day.
Please make sure your posts in this area aren't what works in random normal games but on a medium to high ranked level. No one cares about pubstomp builds. (which yours clearly is)
I know, that AP should always get a blue buff, but I mentioned that you can also take a blue buff, not that you have to. Armor penetration marks are better, I agree. I wouldn't agree that Tear is a bad item. Thanks to this you can spam your Parrley all the time, and that means you get more gold from killing minons. And you CHARGE it pretty quickly. I hardly ever get Phantom Dancer and I said it was only for crit chance and movement speed. Gangplank is not a meele dps. What gives him ability to be meele dps? His 'e' ability? With Parrley he can keep the distance and crit with IE for 1000+ damage. Seriously, I don't know, how he can be meele dps with his devastating Parrley.
Please share your summoner name and the ranked elo at which you consistently win games by using GP as a Q-bot that's trying to be a ranged DPS without any survivability.
I jungle him, his ganks are absolutely beast. And plus, if your team sucks you can carry them easy by using your ult to farm top lane while farming bottom lane mid game.
Atmas is amazing because it gives you 40 attack, 55 armor, and 18% crit for only 2.3k. Those are all stats you need and it's extremely cost effective.
The Wriggles gives you amazing sustain and lets you clear jungle faster.
iedge is obvious, so is trinity.
Merc Treads is just mainly for magic resist since w is so fuckin broken it's not even funny.
PD depends on the situation. Sometimes I build warmogs in the middle of the game for my build instead because my team fed someone on the enemy team and i need to be able to survive more than 1 hit.
If the game somehow lasts to past 45 minutes then I sell my wriggles for a bloodthirster for the AD.
I jungle him, his ganks are absolutely beast. And plus, if your team sucks you can carry them easy by using your ult to farm top lane while farming bottom lane mid game.
Atmas is amazing because it gives you 40 attack, 55 armor, and 18% crit for only 2.3k. Those are all stats you need and it's extremely cost effective.
The Wriggles gives you amazing sustain and lets you clear jungle faster.
iedge is obvious, so is trinity.
Merc Treads is just mainly for magic resist since w is so fuckin broken it's not even funny.
PD depends on the situation. Sometimes I build warmogs in the middle of the game for my build instead because my team fed someone on the enemy team and i need to be able to survive more than 1 hit.
If the game somehow lasts to past 45 minutes then I sell my wriggles for a bloodthirster for the AD.
Did you like... read the last few posts?
GP is a melee dps. Melee dps is in the middle of teamfights.
IF (IF IF IF) you can get away with building IE BEFORE the enemy team can focus you down within 2 seconds it might be an option. In 98% of all games above 1000 elo that is most likely not the case.
Also if you "farm top with your ult while farming bottom lane", congratulations you just gave the enemy team a free baron (yes, people will do that once they see someone being botlane after 20mins once you're past 1600 elo).
I jungle him, his ganks are absolutely beast. And plus, if your team sucks you can carry them easy by using your ult to farm top lane while farming bottom lane mid game.
Atmas is amazing because it gives you 40 attack, 55 armor, and 18% crit for only 2.3k. Those are all stats you need and it's extremely cost effective.
The Wriggles gives you amazing sustain and lets you clear jungle faster.
iedge is obvious, so is trinity.
Merc Treads is just mainly for magic resist since w is so fuckin broken it's not even funny.
PD depends on the situation. Sometimes I build warmogs in the middle of the game for my build instead because my team fed someone on the enemy team and i need to be able to survive more than 1 hit.
If the game somehow lasts to past 45 minutes then I sell my wriggles for a bloodthirster for the AD.
Did you like... read the last few posts?
GP is a melee dps. Melee dps is in the middle of teamfights.
IF (IF IF IF) you can get away with building IE BEFORE the enemy team can focus you down within 2 seconds it might be an option. In 98% of all games above 1000 elo that is most likely not the case.
Also if you "farm top with your ult while farming bottom lane", congratulations you just gave the enemy team a free baron (yes, people will do that once they see someone being botlane after 20mins once you're past 1600 elo).
First of all, Gangplank is unique from other melee DPS in the fact that he has a ranged attack. You don't have to "be in the middle of a fight" until your team fully engages. If you go top lane GP, then of course you have to build atmogs and all that tanky crap to be able to take out/survive against the other tanky dps, but if you jungle, no fucking way man.
If you build IE, you don't run into fights and auto attack like you would if you built atmogs or some other tanky crap. In a way you play like Master Yi except for farming you can help your team poke with Q. Basically you only Parrley until all their stuns and some of their ults are down, then you can run in and clean up. This process is even easier if you have your ult to stop them from escaping. Sure without Warmogs their AP carry will take out around half your HP with an ult, but it shouldn't be able to land on you unless their entire team just decides to jump on you which is what flash is for. IE is just an item that gives you too much damage to ignore, you can two shot anyone who doesn't buy at least 40 armor, and even then it hurts like crazy.
Plus, the farm bot lane while ulting top lane is when your team pretty much has already lost (which means baron is gone). However, everyone knows that with enough farm you can overcome anything in LoL.
Just because you can build a char more than 1 single way doesn't mean that one build trumps all. Gangplank is IMO the only jungler that can AD carry, maybe people think master yi and trynd are good, not going to argue with them but I think GP does better.
I jungle him, his ganks are absolutely beast. And plus, if your team sucks you can carry them easy by using your ult to farm top lane while farming bottom lane mid game.
Atmas is amazing because it gives you 40 attack, 55 armor, and 18% crit for only 2.3k. Those are all stats you need and it's extremely cost effective.
The Wriggles gives you amazing sustain and lets you clear jungle faster.
iedge is obvious, so is trinity.
Merc Treads is just mainly for magic resist since w is so fuckin broken it's not even funny.
PD depends on the situation. Sometimes I build warmogs in the middle of the game for my build instead because my team fed someone on the enemy team and i need to be able to survive more than 1 hit.
If the game somehow lasts to past 45 minutes then I sell my wriggles for a bloodthirster for the AD.
Did you like... read the last few posts?
GP is a melee dps. Melee dps is in the middle of teamfights.
IF (IF IF IF) you can get away with building IE BEFORE the enemy team can focus you down within 2 seconds it might be an option. In 98% of all games above 1000 elo that is most likely not the case.
Also if you "farm top with your ult while farming bottom lane", congratulations you just gave the enemy team a free baron (yes, people will do that once they see someone being botlane after 20mins once you're past 1600 elo).
First of all, Gangplank is unique from other melee DPS in the fact that he has a ranged attack. You don't have to "be in the middle of a fight" until your team fully engages. If you go top lane GP, then of course you have to build atmogs and all that tanky crap to be able to take out/survive against the other tanky dps, but if you jungle, no fucking way man.
If you build IE, you don't run into fights and auto attack like you would if you built atmogs or some other tanky crap. In a way you play like Master Yi except for farming you can help your team poke with Q. Basically you only Parrley until all their stuns and some of their ults are down, then you can run in and clean up. This process is even easier if you have your ult to stop them from escaping. Sure without Warmogs their AP carry will take out around half your HP with an ult, but it shouldn't be able to land on you unless their entire team just decides to jump on you which is what flash is for. IE is just an item that gives you too much damage to ignore, you can two shot anyone who doesn't buy at least 40 armor, and even then it hurts like crazy.
Plus, the farm bot lane while ulting top lane is when your team pretty much has already lost (which means baron is gone). However, everyone knows that with enough farm you can overcome anything in LoL.
Just because you can build a char more than 1 single way doesn't mean that one build trumps all. Gangplank is IMO the only jungler that can AD carry, maybe people think master yi and trynd are good, not going to argue with them but I think GP does better.
Mind sharing at which ELO your "glasscannon GP build that only uses Q and will only fully commit to clean up the fight"-build works?
I jungle him, his ganks are absolutely beast. And plus, if your team sucks you can carry them easy by using your ult to farm top lane while farming bottom lane mid game.
Atmas is amazing because it gives you 40 attack, 55 armor, and 18% crit for only 2.3k. Those are all stats you need and it's extremely cost effective.
The Wriggles gives you amazing sustain and lets you clear jungle faster.
iedge is obvious, so is trinity.
Merc Treads is just mainly for magic resist since w is so fuckin broken it's not even funny.
PD depends on the situation. Sometimes I build warmogs in the middle of the game for my build instead because my team fed someone on the enemy team and i need to be able to survive more than 1 hit.
If the game somehow lasts to past 45 minutes then I sell my wriggles for a bloodthirster for the AD.
Did you like... read the last few posts?
GP is a melee dps. Melee dps is in the middle of teamfights.
IF (IF IF IF) you can get away with building IE BEFORE the enemy team can focus you down within 2 seconds it might be an option. In 98% of all games above 1000 elo that is most likely not the case.
Also if you "farm top with your ult while farming bottom lane", congratulations you just gave the enemy team a free baron (yes, people will do that once they see someone being botlane after 20mins once you're past 1600 elo).
First of all, Gangplank is unique from other melee DPS in the fact that he has a ranged attack. You don't have to "be in the middle of a fight" until your team fully engages. If you go top lane GP, then of course you have to build atmogs and all that tanky crap to be able to take out/survive against the other tanky dps, but if you jungle, no fucking way man.
If you build IE, you don't run into fights and auto attack like you would if you built atmogs or some other tanky crap. In a way you play like Master Yi except for farming you can help your team poke with Q. Basically you only Parrley until all their stuns and some of their ults are down, then you can run in and clean up. This process is even easier if you have your ult to stop them from escaping. Sure without Warmogs their AP carry will take out around half your HP with an ult, but it shouldn't be able to land on you unless their entire team just decides to jump on you which is what flash is for. IE is just an item that gives you too much damage to ignore, you can two shot anyone who doesn't buy at least 40 armor, and even then it hurts like crazy.
Plus, the farm bot lane while ulting top lane is when your team pretty much has already lost (which means baron is gone). However, everyone knows that with enough farm you can overcome anything in LoL.
Just because you can build a char more than 1 single way doesn't mean that one build trumps all. Gangplank is IMO the only jungler that can AD carry, maybe people think master yi and trynd are good, not going to argue with them but I think GP does better.
Mind sharing at which ELO your "glasscannon GP build that only uses Q and will only fully commit to clean up the fight"-build works?
+1. Tanky dps all the way or gtfo (unless you're plat, then i will /bow to the OP of this quote)
I jungle him, his ganks are absolutely beast. And plus, if your team sucks you can carry them easy by using your ult to farm top lane while farming bottom lane mid game.
Atmas is amazing because it gives you 40 attack, 55 armor, and 18% crit for only 2.3k. Those are all stats you need and it's extremely cost effective.
The Wriggles gives you amazing sustain and lets you clear jungle faster.
iedge is obvious, so is trinity.
Merc Treads is just mainly for magic resist since w is so fuckin broken it's not even funny.
PD depends on the situation. Sometimes I build warmogs in the middle of the game for my build instead because my team fed someone on the enemy team and i need to be able to survive more than 1 hit.
If the game somehow lasts to past 45 minutes then I sell my wriggles for a bloodthirster for the AD.
Did you like... read the last few posts?
GP is a melee dps. Melee dps is in the middle of teamfights.
IF (IF IF IF) you can get away with building IE BEFORE the enemy team can focus you down within 2 seconds it might be an option. In 98% of all games above 1000 elo that is most likely not the case.
Also if you "farm top with your ult while farming bottom lane", congratulations you just gave the enemy team a free baron (yes, people will do that once they see someone being botlane after 20mins once you're past 1600 elo).
First of all, Gangplank is unique from other melee DPS in the fact that he has a ranged attack. You don't have to "be in the middle of a fight" until your team fully engages. If you go top lane GP, then of course you have to build atmogs and all that tanky crap to be able to take out/survive against the other tanky dps, but if you jungle, no fucking way man.
If you build IE, you don't run into fights and auto attack like you would if you built atmogs or some other tanky crap. In a way you play like Master Yi except for farming you can help your team poke with Q. Basically you only Parrley until all their stuns and some of their ults are down, then you can run in and clean up. This process is even easier if you have your ult to stop them from escaping. Sure without Warmogs their AP carry will take out around half your HP with an ult, but it shouldn't be able to land on you unless their entire team just decides to jump on you which is what flash is for. IE is just an item that gives you too much damage to ignore, you can two shot anyone who doesn't buy at least 40 armor, and even then it hurts like crazy.
Plus, the farm bot lane while ulting top lane is when your team pretty much has already lost (which means baron is gone). However, everyone knows that with enough farm you can overcome anything in LoL.
Just because you can build a char more than 1 single way doesn't mean that one build trumps all. Gangplank is IMO the only jungler that can AD carry, maybe people think master yi and trynd are good, not going to argue with them but I think GP does better.
Mind sharing at which ELO your "glasscannon GP build that only uses Q and will only fully commit to clean up the fight"-build works?
Right so not having Warmog makes a char glass cannon, it's not like you just die in 1 hit without it. IEdge doubles your damage, it's worth sacrificing 1 - 1.5k HP for, you should have around 2.5k HP without it anyways, the teams that focus you and are able to kill you in 2 seconds would just kill you in 3 seconds if you had warmogs. I've gone atmogs before, and I've felt that I've never actually needed the extra HP.
I don't play GP in ranked, but if you want to see this build in action, watch SaintVicious' stream, he always goes full damage on GP (No warmog) and he is plat.
I jungle him, his ganks are absolutely beast. And plus, if your team sucks you can carry them easy by using your ult to farm top lane while farming bottom lane mid game.
Atmas is amazing because it gives you 40 attack, 55 armor, and 18% crit for only 2.3k. Those are all stats you need and it's extremely cost effective.
The Wriggles gives you amazing sustain and lets you clear jungle faster.
iedge is obvious, so is trinity.
Merc Treads is just mainly for magic resist since w is so fuckin broken it's not even funny.
PD depends on the situation. Sometimes I build warmogs in the middle of the game for my build instead because my team fed someone on the enemy team and i need to be able to survive more than 1 hit.
If the game somehow lasts to past 45 minutes then I sell my wriggles for a bloodthirster for the AD.
Did you like... read the last few posts?
GP is a melee dps. Melee dps is in the middle of teamfights.
IF (IF IF IF) you can get away with building IE BEFORE the enemy team can focus you down within 2 seconds it might be an option. In 98% of all games above 1000 elo that is most likely not the case.
Also if you "farm top with your ult while farming bottom lane", congratulations you just gave the enemy team a free baron (yes, people will do that once they see someone being botlane after 20mins once you're past 1600 elo).
First of all, Gangplank is unique from other melee DPS in the fact that he has a ranged attack. You don't have to "be in the middle of a fight" until your team fully engages. If you go top lane GP, then of course you have to build atmogs and all that tanky crap to be able to take out/survive against the other tanky dps, but if you jungle, no fucking way man.
If you build IE, you don't run into fights and auto attack like you would if you built atmogs or some other tanky crap. In a way you play like Master Yi except for farming you can help your team poke with Q. Basically you only Parrley until all their stuns and some of their ults are down, then you can run in and clean up. This process is even easier if you have your ult to stop them from escaping. Sure without Warmogs their AP carry will take out around half your HP with an ult, but it shouldn't be able to land on you unless their entire team just decides to jump on you which is what flash is for. IE is just an item that gives you too much damage to ignore, you can two shot anyone who doesn't buy at least 40 armor, and even then it hurts like crazy.
Plus, the farm bot lane while ulting top lane is when your team pretty much has already lost (which means baron is gone). However, everyone knows that with enough farm you can overcome anything in LoL.
Just because you can build a char more than 1 single way doesn't mean that one build trumps all. Gangplank is IMO the only jungler that can AD carry, maybe people think master yi and trynd are good, not going to argue with them but I think GP does better.
Mind sharing at which ELO your "glasscannon GP build that only uses Q and will only fully commit to clean up the fight"-build works?
Right so not having Warmog makes a char glass cannon, it's not like you just die in 1 hit without it. IEdge doubles your damage, it's worth sacrificing 1 - 1.5k HP for, you should have around 2.5k HP without it anyways, the teams that focus you and are able to kill you in 2 seconds would just kill you in 3 seconds if you had warmogs. I've gone atmogs before, and I've felt that I've never actually needed the extra HP.
I don't play GP in ranked, but if you want to see this build in action, watch SaintVicious' stream, he always goes full damage on GP (No warmog) and he is plat.
Saintvicious does triforce rush and game usually ends by then. It's not "full damage" GP. It's pretty standard tanky dps GP
21/0/9 brawlers +health/manapot at start.(crit,arpen,and critdmg runes) Avarice +boots second,after that Cloak. So basically 33% crit as fast as possible.then rush 4 IE. Is a bit manahungry so i often melee lasthit. But if you get 2+3 lucky crits off early you almost got your opponent out of the lane. lets c how Dominion works out with the old Scourge
How are you guys all owning solo top? I know the build and I know the runes...but how the hell do you play it? I know he's a beast lategame with items but I can never farm enough safely. Irelia starts with cloth 5 pots and owns me. Sion owns me.
Q doesn't do enough, i can win some sustained fights but not all of them.
When I play GP, I pretend I'm playing a Pantheon who actually scales with farm. So like, be an aggressive asshole for as long as you can, and then just say fuck it and give up lane dominance when they can beat your ass 1v1 (matchup dependent) and take the farm that you can knowing that you'll be a huge pain in the ass for the opposing team all game long.
On November 04 2011 04:51 Mogwai wrote: When I play GP, I pretend I'm playing a Pantheon who actually scales with farm. So like, be an aggressive asshole for as long as you can, and then just say fuck it and give up lane dominance when they can beat your ass 1v1 (matchup dependent) and take the farm that you can knowing that you'll be a huge pain in the ass for the opposing team all game long.
How do you build Gangplank solo top? It seems to me that I can either be super squishy with high crit (Triforce, IE) or tanky but mostly irrelevant damage-wise (Atmogs, FoN).
I think a solid build for solo top GP would be to go Philosopher's, if HoG can be bought before 8 minutes get that too if you can get an avarice blade before 8 minutes as well go for it, Brutalizer or a sheen, cdr/mercs, then get you can go atmog's but Fratma's is better imo, your finished build should look something like fratma's, cdr/mercs, triforce, IE, LW. Phatom dancer is nice, as is FoN. If you want to be more of a parrley and raise moral spamming, only getting in to auto the focused guy I prefer to go Triforce IE PD, with the final slots being made up of LW, BT, Banshee's, Randuin's. He's pretty flexible, I don't like going wriggles on lane pirate but it is certainly an option.
Edit: Actually you don't get the triforce if you're rushing fratma's.
On November 13 2011 03:43 oberon wrote: IMHO you never want wriggles on top GP/Udyr -- emblem of valor is just way more efficient, and it builds into a good team utility item later.
Get your support to rush a starks if you need it. I like wriggles waaaay more
So, the new masteries broke my jungle gp build. Previously, I could buy a vampiric scepter, and go wolves->wraiths->golems with no problem. Now I can't live through golems. Anyone else having this problem? Figure out a rune solution? (I hate cloth + 5 pots)
On November 13 2011 03:43 oberon wrote: IMHO you never want wriggles on top GP/Udyr -- emblem of valor is just way more efficient, and it builds into a good team utility item later.
wtf? Wriggle's absolutely shits on EoV in terms of efficiency and Stark's isn't very good.
On November 13 2011 03:43 oberon wrote: IMHO you never want wriggles on top GP/Udyr -- emblem of valor is just way more efficient, and it builds into a good team utility item later.
wtf? Wriggle's absolutely shits on EoV in terms of efficiency and Stark's isn't very good.
You have to be kidding. Starks is fucking amazing. On the right champ and with the right team composition of course. GP definitely is one of the champs who can carry Starks without feeling bad about it, but only lategame.
On November 13 2011 03:43 oberon wrote: IMHO you never want wriggles on top GP/Udyr -- emblem of valor is just way more efficient, and it builds into a good team utility item later.
wtf? Wriggle's absolutely shits on EoV in terms of efficiency and Stark's isn't very good.
You have to be kidding. Starks is fucking amazing. On the right champ and with the right team composition of course. GP definitely is one of the champs who can carry Starks without feeling bad about it, but only lategame.
extremely situational. either way, you're a retard if you think emblem of valor is more efficient than Wriggle's. emblem is worth roughly 927.5 gold for 800 cost. wriggle's is 2017 gold value for 1600, not counting the ward every 3 minutes or the proc's value in buff control. It's simply asinine to suggest that you should replace wriggle's with emblem and demonstrates that you have no fucking clue how to play and shouldn't be dishing out advice.
well, I'm not kidding. No one says Executioner's Calling is fucking amazing because of how situational it is. Stark's is in the same boat except that honestly, I would use Starks a lot less frequently than EC. Stark's is not a good item, it's about as useful as like, Thornmail, and I consider them both pretty much garbage except for extremely rare edge cases.
On November 22 2011 03:36 Mogwai wrote: well, I'm not kidding. No one says Executioner's Calling is fucking amazing because of how situational it is. Stark's is in the same boat except that honestly, I would use Starks a lot less frequently than EC. Stark's is not a good item, it's about as useful as like, Thornmail, and I consider them both pretty much garbage except for extremely rare edge cases.
Nah, it's way better than you give it credit for. It's an amazing lategame support item, without a sliver of doubt. Any reasonable team composition should in fact have a Starks in their 5 man full build. As soon as ranged ADs truly become carries and casters fall off because people get too tanky, Starks shines.
I guess we shouldn't keep arguing about Starks specifically in this thread though...
I've seen SK snoopeh building jungle critplank a couple times. Looks like Brawler's into Avarice then boots, warmogs/atma phage->Triforce but I'm not 100% sure. I've had success in a couple games but I'm having trouple clearing jungle quickly enough so I don't get too far behind...
I'm guessing building toward's wriggle's is a more jungle-centric build and the crit build (includes runes) is for early FBs?
I don't think there any champ you need to go cloth 5 against because YOU are the giant asshole in lane. And how is a melee top gonna dominate GP? If he runs towards you, you Q him and he's fucked.
In my opinion you should always start boots 3 pots and then either go Wriggles (when you need sustain/armor) or 2-3 dorans (more agressive).
I think there are some people who go for an IE build for top GP but I honestly think Atmogs (or Fratmas if you're not doing well/need quick power) is the best because you have a much larger HP pool to be a giant asshole and tank damage and shoot people. Plus, lategame GP with Atmogs and Trinity/IE is stupid strong because you are tanky as fuck and do a billion damage.
And especially at lowers Elos Atmogs rush is by far the best, because your team is going to depend on you to iniatate/tank damage in most cases.
On December 06 2011 05:02 mordek wrote: In my personal experience warmogs into atmas after your first item is the way to go.
My original question was more for jungle though, I've tried it a few times and I feel really slow/weak and behind when jungling.
i think if u go for a largely camp-farming style of jungle play (as in, almost 0 ganking), then doing an atmogs build would be just fine imo. I've found that when i'm behind for w/e reason tho, giants belt -> atmas -> finish warmogs or Fmallet is pretty decent too, and kicks in a bit faster (tho overall you reach endgame a bit slower). Alternatively i have done phage > atmas -> zeal -> triforce -> some other hp/defence item to a decent amount of efficacy.
edit: all after wiggles ofc (we talking jungle here after alls)
On December 06 2011 05:02 mordek wrote: In my personal experience warmogs into atmas after your first item is the way to go.
My original question was more for jungle though, I've tried it a few times and I feel really slow/weak and behind when jungling.
i think if u go for a largely camp-farming style of jungle play (as in, almost 0 ganking), then doing an atmogs build would be just fine imo. I've found that when i'm behind for w/e reason tho, giants belt -> atmas -> finish warmogs or Fmallet is pretty decent too, and kicks in a bit faster (tho overall you reach endgame a bit slower). Alternatively i have done phage > atmas -> zeal -> triforce -> some other hp/defence item to a decent amount of efficacy.
edit: all after wiggles ofc (we talking jungle here after alls)
That makes sense. I've been skipping wriggles and getting avarice blade because I saw Snoopeh do it... heh. I think he pulls off more succesful ganks than I do though ^^
On November 22 2011 03:36 Mogwai wrote: well, I'm not kidding. No one says Executioner's Calling is fucking amazing because of how situational it is. Stark's is in the same boat except that honestly, I would use Starks a lot less frequently than EC. Stark's is not a good item, it's about as useful as like, Thornmail, and I consider them both pretty much garbage except for extremely rare edge cases.
Nah, it's way better than you give it credit for. It's an amazing lategame support item, without a sliver of doubt. Any reasonable team composition should in fact have a Starks in their 5 man full build. As soon as ranged ADs truly become carries and casters fall off because people get too tanky, Starks shines.
I guess we shouldn't keep arguing about Starks specifically in this thread though...
one of the top players ive seen builds emblem early in their support builds(cant remember which and was just looking at match history) its a good support item, but as a single person say like gp carrying it its kinda bad imo
I'm thinking of buying GP to expand my jungling repertoire a bit, but I've been hearing some pretty conflicting accounts of how he plays with the new jungle in our subforum. I checked out Oddone's GP guide and the item build seems to be exactly the how top junglers seem to still build GP, but I'm wondering how the new mastery tree and the new jungle changes things up.
Also, what runes do you guys tend to use on GP for jungling?
On December 11 2011 16:09 koreasilver wrote: I'm thinking of buying GP to expand my jungling repertoire a bit, but I've been hearing some pretty conflicting accounts of how he plays with the new jungle in our subforum. I checked out Oddone's GP guide and the item build seems to be exactly the how top junglers seem to still build GP, but I'm wondering how the new mastery tree and the new jungle changes things up.
Also, what runes do you guys tend to use on GP for jungling?
Where'd you find the guide? I've only found the one with the old masteries :/
I've been thinking. What if you built a sword of the divine on gangplank? It adds 100 magic damage on it's 4th attack on the next attack (or abilitiy that applies on hit effects) at about half the price of trinity force. I think that if the item were rushed, then you could autoattack a minion three times and wait to shoot someone once for extra harass.
On January 05 2012 07:27 De4ngus wrote: that sounds like a bad sheen
sheen sounds like a bad bf sword. It adds around the same damage but doesn't help at all with EZ's or GP's autoattacks. The only reason people get sheen is to later get a Trin Force.
Hmm about gangplank, what on earth beats him on lane? From my experience in every single game with a gangplank solo top, if he's not totally terrible, he'll end up at least out-CSing the enemy or possibly even killing them. People have said that Irelia counters him and that Riven counters him, but from what I've seen he's fine against both.
If the enemy team picked gangplank for solo top, what would you guys pick to go against him?
On January 05 2012 08:47 starfries wrote: Pantheon?
Huh really? I don't see how GP couldn't farm vs him and lategame he destroys panth in being useful.
Nasus hmm I don't think so, gang can trade way too well straight from lvl 1 by just running up to him and autoing and spamming parrrley, I don't see how nasus could get comparable creepkills
On January 05 2012 08:47 starfries wrote: Pantheon?
Huh really? I don't see how GP couldn't farm vs him and lategame he destroys panth in being useful.
Nasus hmm I don't think so, gang can trade way too well straight from lvl 1 by just running up to him and autoing and spamming parrrley, I don't see how nasus could get comparable creepkills
Have fun trying to farm against pantheon. He will push you out of lane with absolute ease and his passive hardcounters your only form of counter harass. If you're both trying to farm, he gets it without any worries besides ganks(If you autoattack to knock his shield down he Ws you so you can't parley and you lose the exchange to his spear) while you're constantly taking high damage spears.
He WILL bully you out of lane unless you get massive jungle help. The only way I can see beating him is pink warding against him and demanding ganks, and that's not really beating him.
On January 05 2012 08:47 starfries wrote: Pantheon?
Huh really? I don't see how GP couldn't farm vs him and lategame he destroys panth in being useful.
Nasus hmm I don't think so, gang can trade way too well straight from lvl 1 by just running up to him and autoing and spamming parrrley, I don't see how nasus could get comparable creepkills
Have fun trying to farm against pantheon. He will push you out of lane with absolute ease and his passive hardcounters your only form of counter harass. If you're both trying to farm, he gets it without any worries besides ganks(If you autoattack to knock his shield down he Ws you so you can't parley and you lose the exchange to his spear) while you're constantly taking high damage spears.
He WILL bully you out of lane unless you get massive jungle help. The only way I can see beating him is pink warding against him and demanding ganks, and that's not really beating him.
can't you parlay after the stun ? Or am i missing something
On January 05 2012 08:47 starfries wrote: Pantheon?
Huh really? I don't see how GP couldn't farm vs him and lategame he destroys panth in being useful.
Nasus hmm I don't think so, gang can trade way too well straight from lvl 1 by just running up to him and autoing and spamming parrrley, I don't see how nasus could get comparable creepkills
Have fun trying to farm against pantheon. He will push you out of lane with absolute ease and his passive hardcounters your only form of counter harass. If you're both trying to farm, he gets it without any worries besides ganks(If you autoattack to knock his shield down he Ws you so you can't parley and you lose the exchange to his spear) while you're constantly taking high damage spears.
He WILL bully you out of lane unless you get massive jungle help. The only way I can see beating him is pink warding against him and demanding ganks, and that's not really beating him.
can't you parlay after the stun ? Or am i missing something
On January 05 2012 08:47 starfries wrote: Pantheon?
Huh really? I don't see how GP couldn't farm vs him and lategame he destroys panth in being useful.
Nasus hmm I don't think so, gang can trade way too well straight from lvl 1 by just running up to him and autoing and spamming parrrley, I don't see how nasus could get comparable creepkills
Have fun trying to farm against pantheon. He will push you out of lane with absolute ease and his passive hardcounters your only form of counter harass. If you're both trying to farm, he gets it without any worries besides ganks(If you autoattack to knock his shield down he Ws you so you can't parley and you lose the exchange to his spear) while you're constantly taking high damage spears.
He WILL bully you out of lane unless you get massive jungle help. The only way I can see beating him is pink warding against him and demanding ganks, and that's not really beating him.
can't you parlay after the stun ? Or am i missing something
You get the shield up by autoattack creeps and spearing gangplank, when he autos you to take your shield down, you w him so that your shield comes back up (this is the secondary effect of his stun). GP can't parley you and is now taking minion aggro thanks to autoattacking you and getting stunned. Spear him as he runs away and go back to last hitting, or autoattack and spear him after the stun if his minion wave is low. He can't do shit to you until he gets his ult, and even then he can't do much unless he gets absurdly lucky with cannon balls.
On January 05 2012 08:24 Shikyo wrote: Hmm about gangplank, what on earth beats him on lane? From my experience in every single game with a gangplank solo top, if he's not totally terrible, he'll end up at least out-CSing the enemy or possibly even killing them. People have said that Irelia counters him and that Riven counters him, but from what I've seen he's fine against both.
If the enemy team picked gangplank for solo top, what would you guys pick to go against him?
got like 150 games with gp in goldleague+ You'd pick either irelia or pantheon as mentioned, riven or even nidalee would do aswell.
However the problem with counter picking gp is that you can pick a stronger laner, but makeing sure he cant farm properly is near impossible. Then most of the counters are easily outdone by gps utility in the lategame.
About the pantheon discussion, if you just build defensively(rushing wiggles usually is enough to subtain), play flash teleport and dont ever bother Qing him you will end up with just fine farm.
More often then not you'll end up with little cs behind of panth, and 1-2 assists from ultis on other lanes, setting up for a way better endgame then him. Besides to get anything done on you pantheon usually runs with flash + offensive spell, so you can just opt to be all over the map more then him with ur tele and ulties.
Being all over the map more than Pantheon is kind of impossible. Atleast with a moderately coordinated team. He's especially amazing with a good counter jungler on his team. Panth can ult gank every minute, as opposed to TP's cooldown.
GP's an overall more rounded guy but if you let pantheon free farm he'll just push lane and gank other lanes, and pantheon ganks are some of the best in the game.
Shame if the game goes past 20 minutes and he doesn't have 3-4 kills and good farm he's useless.
It's funny, but even though I routinely CP GPs with Pantheon, I don't mind when I pick GP and the opponents pick Panth. Gear up dem Armor Quints, open cloth and just sit back and parley creeps. The thing that makes GP vs. Pantheon fine IMO is that oranges fuck up Pantheon's kill combos and GP's permaslow is basically an instant kill on Pantheon when you get a jungle gank vs. an aggressively positioned Pantheon.
On January 05 2012 16:44 Kaniol wrote: Jarvan does really well vs gp as well
I dislike jarv vs gp because I play him as someone who has very high kill potential. Because of gp passive I can't get q auto combos off at level 1, and later levels he has equal if not more damage with q e and passive.
Also I once saw gp w jarvan knockup. Anyone else see it?
On January 07 2012 02:32 JackDino wrote: GP vs nidalee, nida opens cloth5, takes no dmg from Q and always spams autos, wat do?
There was a game on stream where Dan Dinh started cloth+5pot, maxed W first, and got Wriggle's. Basically just matched her on sustain, farmed, and then was infinitely more useful lategame.
In my experience vlad and swain dominate GP in lane. Nasus with armor seals/quints gets a free farm lane which is essentially a counter. Pantheon basically has the same harass as GP but has his shield to block parrley, giving him a big advantage. Irelia is very good vs him but if either makes a few mistakes the other will snowball out of control. A good nid will beat GP, but a mediocre nid will probably feed him.
On January 07 2012 02:44 Neon_Monkey wrote: In my experience vlad and swain dominate GP in lane. Nasus with armor seals/quints gets a free farm lane which is essentially a counter. Pantheon basically has the same harass as GP but has his shield to block parrley, giving him a big advantage. Irelia is very good vs him but if either makes a few mistakes the other will snowball out of control. A good nid will beat GP, but a mediocre nid will probably feed him.
How would vlad beat GP in lane? GP can open dblade or boots+3, show up to lane and start spammin parrley all day. Vlad can't nearly sustain GP's harass and will get pushed out before lvl 6 and be really behind.
On January 07 2012 02:32 JackDino wrote: GP vs nidalee, nida opens cloth5, takes no dmg from Q and always spams autos, wat do?
I just go philo hog -> wriggle's and max W and farm on my tower. *shrug*, it's my default vs. any really hard matchup with GP. the heal numbers on W are really pretty dumb.
On January 07 2012 02:44 Neon_Monkey wrote: In my experience vlad and swain dominate GP in lane. Nasus with armor seals/quints gets a free farm lane which is essentially a counter. Pantheon basically has the same harass as GP but has his shield to block parrley, giving him a big advantage. Irelia is very good vs him but if either makes a few mistakes the other will snowball out of control. A good nid will beat GP, but a mediocre nid will probably feed him.
How would vlad beat GP in lane? GP can open dblade or boots+3, show up to lane and start spammin parrley all day. Vlad can't nearly sustain GP's harass and will get pushed out before lvl 6 and be really behind.
If you go armor seals+quints and the 6 armor from masteries (could even start cloth+5 if you feel like it....) an auto attack with even a low level transfuse will trade well against a parrrley; once you get to a higher lvl GP can't do anything.
Yesterday the other team sent a Sivir top against me. Unfamiliar with the match-up, I opened Cloth+5. It felt like she could last hit and back off just enough to avoid getting parrley'd or just shield it when it was up. I got sick of eating boomerangs and managed to force an engagement by catching her coming into the brush, and I barely won. I have a feeling that if she would have played it smarter she could have beat me. What do you guys think of the match-up?
I feel like with consistent boomerang dodging gp should be able to handle sivir without much trouble, though like you I don't really have experience with that match up.
Hey I usually go for 2 phantom dancers an infinity edge manamune Ionian boots of lucidity and a phage. It's expensive but it works well what do you think of it?
On January 26 2012 08:59 MindBreaker wrote: Hey I usually go for 2 phantom dancers an infinity edge manamune Ionian boots of lucidity and a phage. It's expensive but it works well what do you think of it?
It's bad because you'll blow up in one stun, even if you eat your orange. Don't like glass cannon GP, I think he's supposed to be played at least a tad tanky.
On January 26 2012 08:59 MindBreaker wrote: Hey I usually go for 2 phantom dancers an infinity edge manamune Ionian boots of lucidity and a phage. It's expensive but it works well what do you think of it?
don't get manamune, get a warmogs, as for if you really have that much money i'd say warmog, atma, IE, triforce, lw
On January 26 2012 08:59 MindBreaker wrote: Hey I usually go for 2 phantom dancers an infinity edge manamune Ionian boots of lucidity and a phage. It's expensive but it works well what do you think of it?
don't get manamune, get a warmogs, as for if you really have that much money i'd say warmog, atma, IE, triforce, lw
Ok will swap out manamune for warmog. Only use it early because of low mana
I'm a newbie @ LoL and I kind of got addicted to GP and I'm like summoner level 10 usually following a build akin to... Brawlers gloves -> Avarice Blade -> Sheen -> Zeal -> Trinity Force (iirc) -> build infinity edge whenever I need to heal -> phantom dancer.
However I don't believe my build is an issue, as when I'm relatively well fed and leveled I can even stave off large ganks until help arrives and generally keep heros weak for us to get map control for baron/dragon (which I end up soloing 99% of the time and don't baron).
Anyone willing to mentor me in how to properly play LoL and GP specifically?
Chrispy is probably our resident GP monger, so you can ask him.
I typically open Cloth+5 vs AD, Boots+3 vs AP. Wriggle's as first item if I can (Vamp scepter asaply) but double Blade if I need the HP. Phage first. Trinity if you're ahead and can go DPS. Phage Atma is you plan on going more tanky. Mog's after Atma's.
On January 26 2012 11:53 zulu_nation8 wrote: are you supposed to max w vs ww?
Max Q as long as your poke makes him lose HP/mana significantly. Once he has some defensive stats, his passive healing will negate your Q spam and you can max W the rest of the way.
A few questions about itemization, when I go top I normally build philo warmogs atmas and then defensive items based on enemies, but I feel that building up to warmogs and until you have atmas you deal very little damage. I thought about building wriggles, sheen or atmas before warmogs to counter this lull in damage, what is the best option in your opinion? Also if I have to carry with gangplank, what is the best way to deal damage? IE trinity atmogs BT or something like that? Is going zerkers okay in that case? Thanks for your input.
I tend to pick GP in situations where I haven't seen the opposing top and then I get CPed a lot with him, so I typically am playing incredibly passively in lane with GP and just opening philo + hog (+ wriggle's if it's an AD matchup) -> triforce -> atma's -> warmog's.
On January 31 2012 00:10 Xedat wrote: A few questions about itemization, when I go top I normally build philo warmogs atmas and then defensive items based on enemies, but I feel that building up to warmogs and until you have atmas you deal very little damage. I thought about building wriggles, sheen or atmas before warmogs to counter this lull in damage, what is the best option in your opinion?Thanks for your input.
wriggle's and/or phage. drop the sheen boner and take phage, it makes you 100% impossible to run from in a typical chase and HP and AD are much cooler stats than AP and Mana.
On January 31 2012 00:10 Xedat wrote:Also if I have to carry with gangplank, what is the best way to deal damage? IE trinity atmogs BT or something like that? Is going zerkers okay in that case? Thanks for your input.
boots 2 + wriggle's + trinity + atma's + warmog's should probably be in like, every gp build. If you're trying to carry, sure, IE for last item, if you're tanking out, Omen or FoN last item. Something like that. BT is unlikely to be gotten to because wriggle's is so much more cost efficient for the midgame and once you've gotten a 6 item build with wriggle's, it's probably better to pump elixirs than to save up to cash out wriggle's for a BT you're going to need to charge anyway.
Most gangplanks go Wriggle's first into their giant's belt item. I really don't like philo stone because he doesn't get all that much out of it. Even Shurelya's isn't that great on him.
Also imo Frozen Mallet is better than Warmog's, since it's amazing for catching people or getting away. You won't be as tanky though.
edit: and if you get Triforce it's a little redundant but the guaranteed slow is still awesome
On January 31 2012 00:26 starfries wrote: Most gangplanks go Wriggle's first into their giant's belt item. I really don't like philo stone because he doesn't get all that much out of it. Even Shurelya's isn't that great on him.
Also imo Frozen Mallet is better than Warmog's, since it's amazing for catching people or getting away. You won't be as tanky though.
Frozen Mallet is a bad item because trinity force is in the game. Mallet's cost effectiveness is pretty terrible and you end up dumping a lot of gold into the 100% slow chance when the combination of movespeed and 50% slow chance on Triforce accomplishes the same thing (makes you inescapable) while providing more betterer stats for the price. You can hate philo all you want, but if your goal is to sit on your tower and parrrley creeps until you can back for 2 pieces of triforce, gold/10s are pretty good IMO.
How many lanes zone GP that hard though? My experience against GP and watching other people play or vs gp in ranked is that he's a kind of snowbally champ where, you are effective early game and your harass keeps him somewhat off creeps, you get a fast wriggles and even if he has wriggles your harass is strong enough that you keep him off creep line while keeping full hp by autoing creeps. If the other laner comes out on top generally GP is the one being zoned and he just farms as much as possible and uses ult to help other places in the map. Philo seems to automatically put you in that passive farm state.
On January 31 2012 01:40 Slayer91 wrote: How many lanes zone GP that hard though? My experience against GP and watching other people play or vs gp in ranked is that he's a kind of snowbally champ where, you are effective early game and your harass keeps him somewhat off creeps, you get a fast wriggles and even if he has wriggles your harass is strong enough that you keep him off creep line while keeping full hp by autoing creeps. If the other laner comes out on top generally GP is the one being zoned and he just farms as much as possible and uses ult to help other places in the map. Philo seems to automatically put you in that passive farm state.
Pantheon, Rumble, Kennen (unless you get an early crit parrrley and kill him), WW, Yorick, Riven, hell, even the last time I played vs. Renek he was getting all up in my business when I tried to rush Wriggle's + Tabi.
I dunno, I always seem to play one of these matchups when I pick GP, so I just end up playing him passively so frequently. A lot of them are GP advantages for like, the first 4 levels or something, but after that I just feel so helpless vs. characters with strong sustain that I just say fuck it and go double gold/10 -> farm 15K gold and win lategame.
Maybe I'm just bad at playing GP aggressively =3. I wonder if my parrrley positioning sucks because I'm used to just spear tossing with Pantheon because spears don't draw creep agro.
why do warmog's come after atma;s? i feel like getting it after trinity and atma's is just so late game that you won't be that relevant until super late game, and oftentimes i feel like i can't carry my team until then.
Why zerkers? Mercs/Tabi>Ionian>Zerks imo. As GP, even if you're going critplank with IE/PD, you need every bit of survivability you can get since you're melee.
I like to go philo+hog and wriggles if needed. Then build from there. If I'm raping really really hard and they have ton of squishies I like to grab fast IE since it lets you blow people up really hard. GP is also decently good at surviving with minimal tank items due to the mobility from E and W. If you do grab a fast IE or even Triforce, you gotta be smarter about engaging. Otherwise I just go warmogs->atmas. Then build FoN, Triforce, IE, LW, PD depending on what I need/want.
Laning against singed is really easy. It's a bad matchup for singed. You can afford to run offensive runes (AD/Apen/crit). Open boots or dblade and just spam your parrley on singed. He has no way to retaliate and you can easily harass him out of lane and/or keep him off the creepwave. Grab philo for the mana regen, then you can rush your big items or grab HoG if you plan on farming more. Wriggles is unnecessary in that lane imo, but the stats+free ward is nice if you really want 'em.
On February 06 2012 14:13 zulu_nation8 wrote: If I'm laning vs singed and get fb, the singed rushes tabi, do i go gp5 + warmog or dps? I have ignite he has tp.
I think it's tentative, do you think you can harass him out of lane even with gp5 items? The most important thing about laning against someone with TP while you don't have it is getting them to use it on their lane instead of against your other lanes, especially when you have a kill spell like ignite.
@bly: you get FB, Singed backs with Tabi, base fast to get a Philo as soon as your lane is pushed. Just GP10 and build standard. You're ahead but you're not really going to stop Singed from farming.
I agree with Ryuu314, Resist boots, CDR, Zerker. Despite GP's stronk kit and passive, GP isn't much of an auto attacker outside of lane. Resist boots are great in lane and in team fights. CDR simply means more ballz (Q R).
I rarely go DPSplank tbh. It depends on the lane matchup (you need to be against someone with minimal sustain, can't farm naturally, and you can harass enough to continually force them to base) and enemy team comp. (e.g. Get FB on a Nidalee then another kill, DPSplank in that lane is ok). DPS, I'd go the Bruiser build of Bladex2, Brutalizer, IE/Trinity. You'll be noticably squishier in team fights, which is why I don't like it. GP is meant to outlast in team fights and clean up with crits.
On February 06 2012 18:02 NeoIllusions wrote: @bly: you get FB, Singed backs with Tabi, base fast to get a Philo as soon as your lane is pushed. Just GP10 and build standard. You're ahead but you're not really going to stop Singed from farming.
I agree with Ryuu314, Resist boots, CDR, Zerker. Despite GP's stronk kit and passive, GP isn't much of an auto attacker outside of lane. Resist boots are great in lane and in team fights. CDR simply means more ballz (Q R).
I rarely go DPSplank tbh. It depends on the lane matchup (you need to be against someone with minimal sustain, can't farm naturally, and you can harass enough to continually force them to base) and enemy team comp. (e.g. Get FB on a Nidalee then another kill, DPSplank in that lane is ok). DPS, I'd go the Bruiser build of Bladex2, Brutalizer, IE/Trinity. You'll be noticably squishier in team fights, which is why I don't like it. GP is meant to outlast in team fights and clean up with crits.
Wait, what?
GP can poke around before the teamfight starts and contribute with E+R, yes. However once shit starts to go down he should be in the middle and trying to zone out the enemy carries. Basicly the only CC that can stop you from doing that are knockbacks of any kind.
He can stick to anyone he wants to thanks to Q+passive, soak CC like a bitch and sustain well enough in the middle of a fight.
When I think about "clean up" I'm thinking an Akali that waits for CC to be blown before she enters on someone who is low or fleeing or a Kassadin who waits till he can pick off squishy targets. GP is (assuming some kind of build that includes Triforce, Giants belt and resists) more of a typical bruiser compared to that.
Actually now that I think of it I play my GP pretty much like I play mah Irelia. Dive in, soak CC and damage, zone squishies, get out with half health and come back for more whenever I please. If you just zoom zoom around the edge of the fight and press Q you might as well have picked Ezreal. =P
PS: I find those IE builds to be pretty damn stupid. Yes, his Q can crit. So what. Big deal. Even lategame when I'm selling Wriggles I'd rather have a BT for moar sustain than an IE for moar damage. Bruisers don't need extremely high damage, they need a combination of self-sustain/survivability and sustained damage/burst.
Ok, I mistyped. He does auto a lot in team fights, despite chunking people with his Q for more. But what I'm trying to say is that +AS is not worth the utility from Resist Boots or CDR for even more Parleys.
That said, I still wouldn't dive in balls to the wall like I would with Irelia. GP just doesn't feel as resilient as some of the other top lane Bruisers.
On February 06 2012 21:18 NeoIllusions wrote: Ok, I mistyped. He does auto a lot in team fights, despite chunking people with his Q for more. But what I'm trying to say is that +AS is not worth the utility from Resist Boots or CDR for even more Parleys.
That said, I still wouldn't dive in balls to the wall like I would with Irelia. GP just doesn't feel as resilient as some of the other top lane Bruisers.
k, that sounds good. Agree with serkers making not much sense.
Sadly Pirates still have to waddle past all those tanky fuckers to get to the real juice, imo that's why he feels less tanky to you.
When teamcomps allow for it I usually try to flank the enemy team somehow instead of walking past their CC bots if they have any. GP can still perform the "I zone your AD carry while my team 4n4's without your main source of damage" just fine. :>
Am I the only one who feels that Jungle GP isn't that great? He never felt to me like he had that great of clear speed, ganks, or sustain. He's just a good champion that has the capability of jungling because he happens to have a heal. Maybe I'm missing something, but even following guides and watching streams, he always seems to have to bluepill a lot and doesn't have the CC to have reliable ganks.
On February 07 2012 01:30 Alaric wrote: Parrrley applies red buff. Get overextended? Flash or die (except perhaps mid).
Still, though, I don't feel like he's overly amazing compared to other junglers out there. Having a decent slow on a medium range and a small MS buff isn't absurd and a lot of champs get that or better, plus better tankiness or sustain innate. I love Laneplank, but I just feel like he's shunted to Jungle because he can, not because he's good at it.
He isn't super ridiculously awesome in one thing (he isn't rammus or shyvana), but he is really solid all-round. He farms decently (especially with Q bonus gold) and ganks decently (ranged slow + MS/AS buff + good damage). He shines in his transition to midgame though; no matter how underfarmed GP is, he still provides a ton of utility (E&R&Passive) and his Q gold allows him to keep up with many faster junglers in income.
Thats why you see him picked in tournament level games; if they want a solid, allround jungler.
And because you can play mindgames with your opponents: who is top, who is jungle?
Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
On February 06 2012 18:02 NeoIllusions wrote: @bly: you get FB, Singed backs with Tabi, base fast to get a Philo as soon as your lane is pushed. Just GP10 and build standard. You're ahead but you're not really going to stop Singed from farming.
I agree with Ryuu314, Resist boots, CDR, Zerker. Despite GP's stronk kit and passive, GP isn't much of an auto attacker outside of lane. Resist boots are great in lane and in team fights. CDR simply means more ballz (Q R).
I rarely go DPSplank tbh. It depends on the lane matchup (you need to be against someone with minimal sustain, can't farm naturally, and you can harass enough to continually force them to base) and enemy team comp. (e.g. Get FB on a Nidalee then another kill, DPSplank in that lane is ok). DPS, I'd go the Bruiser build of Bladex2, Brutalizer, IE/Trinity. You'll be noticably squishier in team fights, which is why I don't like it. GP is meant to outlast in team fights and clean up with crits.
That's what I did but not only could I not stop him from farming, I couldn't win exchanges and couldn't get close to creep line when he zoned me. I was able to get atmogs fairly early and become super strong, however despite dying 3-4 more times to ganks, the Singed was nearly as strong and because he had TP, was able to influence a few important fights more than me. I asked him after game and he said he would've rushed Mercs and dblades and tried to cripple him completely.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I'm not a big fan of "gank oriented" junglers. Biggest reason I don't play Shaco as much. Gangplank feels kind of similar (not to Shaco, but to that style), where if he doesn't get any early ganks or gets killed trying to gank, he's far behind and can't rely on farming the jungle/invading the other jungle to catch back up.
Probably just a difference in playstyles. I like to go for a couple early ganks to keep the laners on their toes, but prefer to farm up the jungle and control buffs if I have a choice in what I'm doing. I like champs like Skarner, Udyr, Shy, and Jax more than Shaco, GP, and Twitch.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
And jungle GP is VERY low risk. Your 1v1 is pretty good, and if you get the better of any engagement the enemy WILL die because of e+passive.
Not to mention having his global ultimate is literally the best ultimate on any jungle in the game.
I think a big issue is that people dont vary their build nearly enough on gp. Warmogs is NOT the correct build 50+% of the time. HOG into trinity is almost as tanky but much more deadly. Hell, if you are behind throwing a HOG and avarice blade will make you deadly AND tanky.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
when you dont have blue buff jungling gets pretty hard. I rush wriggles every game like everyone else.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
when you dont have blue buff jungling gets pretty hard. I rush wriggles every game like everyone else.
What are you runeing?
a 21-9-0 with armpen reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues, and ad reds lets you open vamp or boots, and you should be getting whatever you didnt start with on your first back. Come level 3 you should have enough damage and armor to where the vamp cepter covers for any damage you take from camps.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
Which is why you run vamp cepter and use the fact that you have more damage output than any other jungle to sustain yourself with lifesteal. Hell, I get lower on shyvana when clearing the jungle than I do when I jungle GP.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
Which is why you run vamp cepter and use the fact that you have more damage output than any other jungle to sustain yourself with lifesteal. Hell, I get lower on shyvana when clearing the jungle than I do when I jungle GP.
I guess, his clear speed just feels so slow and painful at the early levels. I mean, E's boost isn't that high until you level it up somewhat, and without the AoE that some champs have, he's not charging through the jungle at high speeds. Like, with Shy/Skar/Birdyr I feel like I avoid a bunch of damage just by killing shit super fast.
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
Which is why you run vamp cepter and use the fact that you have more damage output than any other jungle to sustain yourself with lifesteal. Hell, I get lower on shyvana when clearing the jungle than I do when I jungle GP.
I guess, his clear speed just feels so slow and painful at the early levels. I mean, E's boost isn't that high until you level it up somewhat, and without the AoE that some champs have, he's not charging through the jungle at high speeds. Like, with Shy/Skar/Birdyr I feel like I avoid a bunch of damage just by killing shit super fast.
Your goal on jungle GP is to get a wriggles as fast as you can then just keep farming, using your ult in the place of ganks almost. Then you just rely on the fact that no one in the game scales as hard as you do into late game.
the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order.
On February 07 2012 06:15 zulu_nation8 wrote: the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order.
Except that you can gank bot while farming wolves. Or ult to defend a gank, putting their jungler behind or even you ahead. Or hold top and defend a push bot. You can get +150% gold from small camps, +20% for medium. Always farm, never back. He's not "way down at bot lane, failed gank now I gotta run to wolves just to keep jungling... may as well back" when he misses a gank, he just has his ult on cd. I mean jesus, you can gank two lanes at the same time!
On February 07 2012 02:22 Seuss wrote: Gangplank is a low-risk, high-reward jungler. His worst case scenario isn't all that bad because his skills bring so much to a team even without any items. In normal circumstances he's strong, and in his best case scenario he walks all over the enemy team.
There aren't many who can still meaningfully contribute to a teamfight when underfarmed and underleveled. There are precious few who can do that and build into a carry if the game goes well. Kayle is really the only other jungler who can do both, but she doesn't fit universally into team compositions the way Gangplank does.
As a good reference, here's a scrim TL B played recently. I was on Gangplank and got fairly schooled by the enemy team. Despite my complete non-presence early game and general inexperience as Gangplank I still contributed to teamfights and helped win the game.
I've always view GP as high risk low reward since you don't have the sustain needed to stay in the jungle and you don't have the kit to clear camps fast. Ganks are super powerful but if you don't succeed you are almost certainly behind the other jungler.
The point about sustain confuses me. On your first clear you should have blue buff, and so long as you spam W you'll be high health. Thereafter you'll be a higher level and should have either Vampiric Scepter or Philo, at which point sustain is no longer an issue. What kind of sustain issues are you seeing, and what's the build you're using?
Really? W is a 80 health heal on a 22 second CD, you're not outhealing jungle (let alone gank) incurred damage with that. With Blue that's still 17.6 second cooldown, a minuscule amount of healing compared to other jungle champions.
Whether or not other champions can heal for more is largely irrelevant when the matter at hand is GP's ability to sustain himself while jungling. My experience is that he can to the point where even without a leash on blue he can do a full clear and still have health left over to gank. W contributes to that, even if it's "miniscule" compared to another champion's sustain abilities.
On February 07 2012 06:15 zulu_nation8 wrote: the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order.
The point I was trying to make is that Gangplank being behind isn't a big deal. He's not Shaco or Xin Zhao, junglers who depend upon being fed to be remotely effective later. That is why he's low-risk, his worst case scenario is that he still contributes a lot to teamfights. He's high-reward because his best case scenario is that he gets fed and carries hard, and because his ganks are strong it's not an unlikely scenario.
On February 07 2012 06:15 zulu_nation8 wrote: the point is with that set up he still gets behind if he doesnt get successful ganks, i run the standard set ups for every jungler with standard item order.
Except that you can gank bot while farming wolves. Or ult to defend a gank, putting their jungler behind or even you ahead. Or hold top and defend a push bot. You can get +150% gold from small camps, +20% for medium. Always farm, never back. He's not "way down at bot lane, failed gank now I gotta run to wolves just to keep jungling... may as well back" when he misses a gank, he just has his ult on cd. I mean jesus, you can gank two lanes at the same time!
That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective.
On February 07 2012 06:46 Requizen wrote: That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective.
I'm not necessarily saying you should do this, but what's wrong with farming constantly unless his ult is up? The thing's on like a 1 minute cooldown and frankly if you're ganking more often that you're just wasting time that you could be farming.
On February 07 2012 06:46 Requizen wrote: That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective.
I'm not necessarily saying you should do this, but what's wrong with farming constantly unless his ult is up? The thing's on like a 1 minute cooldown and frankly if you're ganking more often that you're just wasting time that you could be farming.
Don't get me wrong, I use it and abuse it, but on a ~2 minute CD (120/115/110), if you're doing nothing but running through the jungle until it's up, that's a large amount of time that you're not doing much for your team.
I'm all for farming and scaling into the late game, but I just feel that junglers need a decent presence in the early/mid game or else their team falls behind, especially if the enemy jungler is abusing the fact that you never leave the jungle and go gank your allies.
On February 07 2012 06:46 Requizen wrote: That's kind of an absurd post. So you do nothing but farm until 6, then do nothing but farm unless your ult is up? It's a strong skill, but its not 100% to guarantee a kill or even anything close to it. If anything passive+E is stronger from a jungling perspective.
I'm not necessarily saying you should do this, but what's wrong with farming constantly unless his ult is up? The thing's on like a 1 minute cooldown and frankly if you're ganking more often that you're just wasting time that you could be farming.
Don't get me wrong, I use it and abuse it, but on a ~2 minute CD (120/115/110), if you're doing nothing but running through the jungle until it's up, that's a large amount of time that you're not doing much for your team.
I'm all for farming and scaling into the late game, but I just feel that junglers need a decent presence in the early/mid game or else their team falls behind, especially if the enemy jungler is abusing the fact that you never leave the jungle and go gank your allies.
The big thing is you cant try to force ganks. Playing GP and ganking constantly would be like picking ww and ganking constantly before you hit level 6. GP has a very strong gank, but you need to know WHEN to use it.
As much flack as I get for constantly differentiating between TOO and SV- this is where it is HUGE. You cant play GP the way TOO likes to play, constantly supporting lanes. You need to be farming your ass off and only ganking when you are assured a kill or near kill.
GP is a jungle which requires serious skill to play out. You NEED to be able to constantly and correctly assess where you can help and where you cannot, and farm the rest of the time.
i think there is no such a thing like stable item build.Every build is distinctive related to game but Gangplank is so powerful hero and everybuild can be choosen for him
On February 16 2012 06:18 Shelke14 wrote: What do the GP gods think of Phage and then Wiggles for an opening? Starting with boots 3 of course
Top lane, this is a fairly standard opening vs another AD brusier. Boots or Cloth opening, Wriggles, Phage. If you're ahead, straight to Trinity. Enemy has a lot of burst and CC, stay Phage and go Atmog's.
I'm looking for some advice on GP top against Swain...I feel I played the match up wrong, but does Swain counter GP after a few levels?
I took TP/Flash, boots/3 and traded somewhat higher. I went back for dblade and then I started getting just completely zoned out and unable to farm. I dropped a death and basically only had 2/3s his farm by the end of the lane. In that situation should I have just rushed Philo stone so that I'd have the mana to Q more often? The Swain froze his lane pretty perfectly in mid and there was nothing I could do (neither of us received jungle pressure).
Edit: Also, general question, for going against Top APs like Rumble/Swain/Vlad, is it even worth getting a delayed wriggles anymore, or should I stick to keeping a couple dblades and moving on to phage etc.
On February 28 2012 04:08 PartyBiscuit wrote: I'm looking for some advice on GP top against Swain...I feel I played the match up wrong, but does Swain counter GP after a few levels?
I took TP/Flash, boots/3 and traded somewhat higher. I went back for dblade and then I started getting just completely zoned out and unable to farm. I dropped a death and basically only had 2/3s his farm by the end of the lane. In that situation should I have just rushed Philo stone so that I'd have the mana to Q more often? The Swain froze his lane pretty perfectly in mid and there was nothing I could do (neither of us received jungle pressure).
Edit: Also, general question, for going against Top APs like Rumble/Swain/Vlad, is it even worth getting a delayed wriggles anymore, or should I stick to keeping a couple dblades and moving on to phage etc.
swain in particular is a real beast top lane, and crushes a lot of melee. GP can mitigate a bit of it with oranges, but he's still gonna have serious problems, almost regardless of what you do. No comment on the other 2. Honestly, I think you shoulda gotten chalice in that particular case. If you're already losing, philo is a bad buy, as your immediate power level drops significantly given the gold cost. Typically you buy gp5 items when it looks like it's gonna be a farm-fest lane. It also doesn't help that you didn't have an offensive summoner, which you kinda need vs swain, tp won't really cut it.
double dblade -> phage is good vs. AP top laners imo. you can get wriggle's if you desperately need the armor and sustain boost, but sitting on 2 dblades is fine. GP would get ruined by swain, but as with all swain top matchups, you should just call for early jungle help as swain can be snowballed against with early jungle ganks, as his first 3 levels are complete ass and in the long top lane, he can just get fucked really easily by ganks.
So how do you lane against Warwick? I am stronger early game but after a few levels he just gets too much sustain from his q and I can parrrley him anymore, its pretty much wasted mana. Do I need to go in offense mastery to deal more damage? Or rush some magic resist to counter his q and passive damage?
On March 02 2012 19:34 Xedat wrote: So how do you lane against Warwick? I am stronger early game but after a few levels he just gets too much sustain from his q and I can parrrley him anymore, its pretty much wasted mana. Do I need to go in offense mastery to deal more damage? Or rush some magic resist to counter his q and passive damage?
I never really run anything but 21 in offense on GP. It's just too good not to do it, at least imo. Against WW, you could try executioner's calling, but basically, if you don't ruin him really early on, he wins the lane once he gets his Wriggle's/Glacial. I'd call for an early gank and then basically threaten a kill every time he returns to the lane.
On March 03 2012 00:52 Mogwai wrote: GP sucks in a lot of lanes. there, I said it.
like, honestly 90% of the time I play GP these days I'm maxing W and playing passive as fuck in lane.
isnt that a huge + if you can farm passively with a champ that scales well and has global utility? Btw its pretty fun to play him mid sometimes cuz nobody has enough armor to survive q spam -.-
On March 03 2012 00:52 Mogwai wrote: GP sucks in a lot of lanes. there, I said it.
like, honestly 90% of the time I play GP these days I'm maxing W and playing passive as fuck in lane.
Agreed. IMO he really just isnt all that strong early and you kind of either have to rely on being straight better than someone (which his kit is really good at abusing) or just be passive and try to hit your absurd late game.
But I honestly think he really doesnt have a lot of matchups that he actually SHOULD win. Its just that good GP's are capable of making a lot of matchups look unwinable. If that makes any sense.
On March 03 2012 00:52 Mogwai wrote: GP sucks in a lot of lanes. there, I said it.
like, honestly 90% of the time I play GP these days I'm maxing W and playing passive as fuck in lane.
OMG. thank you, but can you explain to me, how do i beat a GP in lane? My solo top must be horrid cause GP always beats me (except Pantheon) and i always lose as GP :l
On March 03 2012 00:52 Mogwai wrote: GP sucks in a lot of lanes. there, I said it.
like, honestly 90% of the time I play GP these days I'm maxing W and playing passive as fuck in lane.
OMG. thank you, but can you explain to me, how do i beat a GP in lane? My solo top must be horrid cause GP always beats me (except Pantheon) and i always lose as GP :l
I'm not sure what's going on in this thread. I only lose as GP vs hyper-aggressive Warwicks and Udyrs, who I feel are broken in lane anyways.
I skill Q,E,Q,W maxing R>Q>E>W. Until the enemy gets Wriggles I spam my Q on them and try not to take damage in return. I just keep spamming the Q as long as I can save enough mana for one W-E combo to escape a bad situation. If a melee champ wants to trade with GP he is required to come in your minions, so you can push E and swing at them while all your casters hit him as well. He'll realize it was dumb to rush you then as he runs back you can sneak a few more hits in because he'll be slow from your passive. Don't fight in the enemy's minions until you are so ahead in health (from earlier Q harass) that you can force him out of lane even with minions hitting you. During laning phase I use the ult wherever it will get me assist gold, even if it's not necessary for my team to get a kill. Before teamfights I sneak in Q's where I can while I wait for a good initiate by my team. When the initiate happens I push E and ult to make it very hard for the enemy to disengage. I'll immediately go in and start unloading on one of the carries- preferably the AD. If you get 3 hits on them then your passive will have max stacks on them and they won't be able to escape you unless they flash over a wall. If you can't get in range you can zone carries out of the fight just by making it clear that they will get Q'ed if they step close enough to attack your team.
Build vs Ap lane - boots + 3 pots > 2 dorans blades + vamp scepter or 3 dorans > merc treads > sheen > IE > Trinity Force > Warmogs
Build vs Ad lane- cloth + 5 pots > wriggles > boots > sheen > merc treads or ninja tabi depending on enemy team > IE > TF > Giants belt > Atma's > Warmogs
For jungling I start vamp scepter or cloth + 5 depending on if I think I'll be in fights early, and I'll go for Wriggles > T2Boots > Giant's belt > Atma's > Warmogs > IE. With the jungle build I get the tankiness first because you don't have the huge level advantage that you would have if you were a solo-laner so you are much squishier, and unless you are fed you can't get a fast IE/Trinity force as a jungler.
TLDR- Spam Q on your opponent, not on minions -> Build basic defense for your lane -> build sheen then infinity edge -> chunk people in teamfights with your sheen-procced, IE crit, parlayy shots.
I've been playing Support GP for a few games now and it feels rather effective. Q is a great poke in lane and E works like a team Blood Boil. So in essence, it's another non-sustain support like Nunu who does even better in bot lane fights cause he has built in CC and can crit with Parley.
A better AoE ulti than Nunu is also nice.
Edit: Standard Bruiser Runes/Masteries. Open Faerie + 2 hp + 3 wards. Philo, Boots, HoG, Zeke's, CDR Boots, Aegis, Shurelya's. Game usually ends here. You also get max CDR at this point.
Support GP was really fun but ever since Nunu became popular I don't see the point. Nunu has better drag/baron control, bloodboil is generally better than raise morale, and ice ball hits just as hard as 0 AD and 0 crit parley, with the added bonus of a slow and an AS debuff. GP ult is better, but Nunu's ult isn't *bad*.
I also don't see how GP will do better in bot lane fights than Nunu, especially past level 2 or so.
On March 27 2012 04:18 NeoIllusions wrote: I've been playing Support GP for a few games now and it feels rather effective. Q is a great poke in lane and E works like a team Blood Boil. So in essence, it's another non-sustain support like Nunu who does even better in bot lane fights cause he has built in CC and can crit with Parley.
A better AoE ulti than Nunu is also nice.
Edit: Standard Bruiser Runes/Masteries. Open Faerie + 2 hp + 3 wards. Philo, Boots, HoG, Zeke's, CDR Boots, Aegis, Shurelya's. Game usually ends here. You also get max CDR at this point.
Nunu's CC is stronger bot lane because it's instant, higher slow % and higher duration. Also Bloodboil gives better stats for a ranged AD than Raise Morale and also has the HUGE benefit of 100% up time. I know support GP works and is decent, but I personally think Nunu is a much safer and stronger support pick
how do you play/build GP into the mid/late game? i cant find the right balance between damage/tankiness, im either useless or melts instantly in teamfights
hi, I just started playing GP solo top. I usually build him regen pendant >philo stone>merc treds>phage>atmas>warmogs>trinity>inf edge>something game specific (I don't really know, I usually get a defensive item like thornmail/FoN/GA).
I'm relatively new to the game so I don't really know what's good and right. I get philo stone asap because of mana issues+ gives lane sustain, and then I get mercs because I go atmogs and the weakenss for that is usually magic resistance I think. Phage gives a little bit of sustain/attack damage while I am building the expensive atmas and before I get warmogs.
The OP is a little bit out of date, so I was wondering if someone can give me some feedback on how I should build him!
Edit: I also get armorpen marks, flat armor seals, flat mr glyphs, and health quints (only ones I own, anything I should purchase next for him?)
When are they going to change GP's ult to not be completely fucking random....it makes no sense, sometimes it just levels people and sometimes they just walk right through without taking a single point of damage.
On April 02 2012 00:18 Complete wrote: hi, I just started playing GP solo top. I usually build him regen pendant >philo stone>merc treds>phage>atmas>warmogs>trinity>inf edge>something game specific (I don't really know, I usually get a defensive item like thornmail/FoN/GA).
I'm relatively new to the game so I don't really know what's good and right. I get philo stone asap because of mana issues+ gives lane sustain, and then I get mercs because I go atmogs and the weakenss for that is usually magic resistance I think. Phage gives a little bit of sustain/attack damage while I am building the expensive atmas and before I get warmogs.
The OP is a little bit out of date, so I was wondering if someone can give me some feedback on how I should build him!
Edit: I also get armorpen marks, flat armor seals, flat mr glyphs, and health quints (only ones I own, anything I should purchase next for him?)
One important thing is that you have to get adaptative about your opening. Some champs are going to smash you if you mindlessly rush philostone for exemple, like Rive, Panthéon, Wukong, Fiora, etc. against some you'd rather start cloth+5 pots, perhaps even tabi instead of mercs. One other thing is that unless you are cramped for slots (or your opponent/his jungler has cc, but that applies less for GP with oranges), the 450 gold to upgrade to mercs from boots+NMM is better spent elsewhere early on, so don't feel hard pressed to rush it or anything.
On April 02 2012 00:18 Complete wrote: hi, I just started playing GP solo top. I usually build him regen pendant >philo stone>merc treds>phage>atmas>warmogs>trinity>inf edge>something game specific (I don't really know, I usually get a defensive item like thornmail/FoN/GA).
I'm relatively new to the game so I don't really know what's good and right. I get philo stone asap because of mana issues+ gives lane sustain, and then I get mercs because I go atmogs and the weakenss for that is usually magic resistance I think. Phage gives a little bit of sustain/attack damage while I am building the expensive atmas and before I get warmogs.
The OP is a little bit out of date, so I was wondering if someone can give me some feedback on how I should build him!
Edit: I also get armorpen marks, flat armor seals, flat mr glyphs, and health quints (only ones I own, anything I should purchase next for him?)
One important thing is that you have to get adaptative about your opening. Some champs are going to smash you if you mindlessly rush philostone for exemple, like Rive, Panthéon, Wukong, Fiora, etc. against some you'd rather start cloth+5 pots, perhaps even tabi instead of mercs. One other thing is that unless you are cramped for slots (or your opponent/his jungler has cc, but that applies less for GP with oranges), the 450 gold to upgrade to mercs from boots+NMM is better spent elsewhere early on, so don't feel hard pressed to rush it or anything.
i never feel too obligated to rush mercs, because i can just eat an orange.
On April 02 2012 00:41 sob3k wrote: When are they going to change GP's ult to not be completely fucking random....it makes no sense, sometimes it just levels people and sometimes they just walk right through without taking a single point of damage.
shit like that has no place in a competitive game
The reason his ult is strong is because of the slow on global range.
You can secure a kill your team would have otherwise missed out on. The damage is strong, yes, but it's really just a bonus.
A really, really strong bonus, but a bonus nontheless.
On April 03 2012 00:13 Mogwai wrote: GP ult needs to be ranged similar to Pantheon/TF ult. That shit should not be hitting dragon fights while GP farms top.
TF/Panth ult range is just short of the distance from top/bot outer turret to mid outer turret. The point is that you can't use their ult to affect fights more than 1 lane away.
Yea, Shen wouldn't be nearly as hard to deal with if they put a range limit on his ult too. They've already learned that global range on things can't be balanced. Alex Ich from M5 has already expressed how much he doesn't like global passives like TF, Janna, and Zilean (Janna being the only one he thinks is genuinely a problem, but he still doesn't like the idea of them). They just have these arbitrary exceptions to the rule that they haven't fixed yet for whatever reason.
If GP ult didn't have global range I think he would be an EXTREMELY situational pick thanks to how many lanes he loses badly nowadays, but I don't know how they'd fix that because he's still strong nontheless.
GP would probably still be fine tbh. I dunno, just seems like even though he can't play a lot of lanes aggressive, he can always just max oranges and build double gold/10 and end up at worst breaking even in farm and then be very strong late game. the champion's kinda bullshit.
I can agree with that, but he really doesn't fit my style. I feel like if I can't cripple who I'm laning against, I'm not doing my job right. Recent tournaments have shown that passive top lanes can REALLY be abused, though.
On April 03 2012 00:58 Mogwai wrote: GP would probably still be fine tbh. I dunno, just seems like even though he can't play a lot of lanes aggressive, he can always just max oranges and build double gold/10 and end up at worst breaking even in farm and then be very strong late game. the champion's kinda bullshit.
Jungle gp, build him as J4. I swear i can keep up with the medi ocre junglers like skarner, rammus. Haven't tried vs counter-jungle heavy champs yet tho. He's hella strong when he picks up red and gets to 3 especially against lanes that relys on cc to get away.
On April 03 2012 00:58 Mogwai wrote: GP would probably still be fine tbh. I dunno, just seems like even though he can't play a lot of lanes aggressive, he can always just max oranges and build double gold/10 and end up at worst breaking even in farm and then be very strong late game. the champion's kinda bullshit.
Jungle gp, build him as J4. I swear i can keep up with the medi ocre junglers like skarner, rammus. Haven't tried vs counter-jungle heavy champs yet tho. He's hella strong when he picks up red and gets to 3 especially against lanes that relys on cc to get away.
they play very differently. GP is better at ganking sidelanes, J4 is better at ganking mid. I think J4's stronger in the jungle atm, but there are some really strong cheesy strats with GP like red first with boots and exhaust -> gank top right away that are basically guaranteed FB.
You need a team. To the point that I would not advocate it in solo q. You need communication and warding or you will be in a lot of pain. But if you can protect your jungle enough to where you can survive the game past 20 minutes you will be a force. Its just so easy to completely lose jungle control against a lot of common jungles.
Its almost like top lane. There are just some champions you CANT run GP against. Counterpicking in the jungle is just as bad as top or mid.
On April 03 2012 02:40 Two_DoWn wrote: Jungle GP gets shut down SUPER hard though.
You need a team. To the point that I would not advocate it in solo q. You need communication and warding or you will be in a lot of pain. But if you can protect your jungle enough to where you can survive the game past 20 minutes you will be a force. Its just so easy to completely lose jungle control against a lot of common jungles.
Its almost like top lane. There are just some champions you CANT run GP against. Counterpicking in the jungle is just as bad as top or mid.
Like what? I hate playing GP cause I play passive as fuck with him these days, but honestly there was never a matchup that I ran into with him that made me think I hurt my team with the GP pick.
On April 03 2012 02:40 Two_DoWn wrote: Jungle GP gets shut down SUPER hard though.
You need a team. To the point that I would not advocate it in solo q. You need communication and warding or you will be in a lot of pain. But if you can protect your jungle enough to where you can survive the game past 20 minutes you will be a force. Its just so easy to completely lose jungle control against a lot of common jungles.
Its almost like top lane. There are just some champions you CANT run GP against. Counterpicking in the jungle is just as bad as top or mid.
Like what? I hate playing GP cause I play passive as fuck with him these days, but honestly there was never a matchup that I ran into with him that made me think I hurt my team with the GP pick.
Aggressive LS, Mundo, Shyv, Udyr are all pretty devastating if they go full counterjungle. IMO GP really needs both buffs on his first clear in order to level effectivly. If you start losing jungle control it is very hard to get back with GP because he has a pretty bad 1v1 without items and no real good way to lock people in place while you wait for your team. As a result losing jungle control is pretty devistating on GP cuz he has no real good way to get it back.
Although, he does have the benifit of being able to just stack GP10 and still be useful because of his E and ult if you do get behind a little bit. The question becomes wether or not you can fully maintain jungle control enough to where you dont lose the game by 15 minutes.
He handles getting shut down better than ww, for example, but it is still painful. But not losing a game due to a loss of jungle control is as much about your team as it is about the jungle. The jungle just enables the possiblity of getting shut down.
On April 03 2012 03:00 Mogwai wrote: oh, I meant top. I can understand the jungle problems, I just don't see how he gets bodied top.
lol missunderstanding then. I was just trying to point out that junglers can get countered just as hard as top/mid lanes can, even though people dont think that way a lot of the time.
I dont know if he gets bodied top. Dun play it enough. Just know he can get crushed in jungle.
yea, I dunno, he has a perfect kit for playing safe top lane in solo queue IMO. Max dem oranges and farm like a mad man. Such retarded mana efficiency on his sustain.
On April 03 2012 00:58 Mogwai wrote: GP would probably still be fine tbh. I dunno, just seems like even though he can't play a lot of lanes aggressive, he can always just max oranges and build double gold/10 and end up at worst breaking even in farm and then be very strong late game. the champion's kinda bullshit.
Jungle gp, build him as J4. I swear i can keep up with the medi ocre junglers like skarner, rammus. Haven't tried vs counter-jungle heavy champs yet tho. He's hella strong when he picks up red and gets to 3 especially against lanes that relys on cc to get away.
Why wouldn't you just pick J4 instead?
What i meant was that GP benefits more or less from the same stats as J4, not that they're identical.
I like 9/21/0, makes you safe in the jungle, you will never drop low from any camp if you get a proper leash. Got standard tanky jungler runes: MS quints, arm seals, mres/lvl glyphs and AS reds. Flash/smite
Wriggles -> Tabi -> Phage is currently my core rush, i dunno if you can go the double gp/10 way and still be efficient, but you will need wriggles sooner or later. You pick tabi cus you got W (i guess mercs could be viable vs heavy ap teams).
From there it's basically your choice what you wanna do. What i like about GP is that he's so versatile in terms of items. Aegis is good, hex drinker and the new maw item is really good vs heavy AP burst. Trinity is an obvious choice if you can afford the other parts after phage, but mainly you wanna focus on getting very balanced stats against most teams. A mix of mres, armor and health, while still getting massive utility is the #1 priority on GP imo.
I will not advise to rush warmogs, because i feel like it's a complete waste on any junglers with the amounts of gold you're able to get. Using 3.000 for nothing but health feels like a complete waste, you should focus on getting the items that makes you win fights.
Why take flash over exhaust? There's nothing fancy you can do with it like a flash ult like Lee Sin or WW, and you probably won't need it to run away because you're not likely to be counterjungling early on.
On April 03 2012 23:25 noggnoskill wrote: Why take flash over exhaust? There's nothing fancy you can do with it like a flash ult like Lee Sin or WW, and you probably won't need it to run away because you're not likely to be counterjungling early on.
I carry flash for late game. Your job is to kill carries. Easiest way to do that and avoid getting kited is to just flash onto them.
Plus if you are in jungle you will probably need it to flash away from invaders.
On April 03 2012 23:30 Mementoss wrote: I played GP top, against a Mordekaiser and got absolutely destroyed. How do you play out this matchup. (low ELO)
Fight him level 1 behind his creeps and kill him.
or whatever, you can just use an MRes spec, open double gold/10 -> chalice or Spirit Visage and max oranges while chillin' under your tower farming
On April 03 2012 23:30 Mementoss wrote: I played GP top, against a Mordekaiser and got absolutely destroyed. How do you play out this matchup. (low ELO)
Fight him level 1 behind his creeps and kill him.
or whatever, you can just use an MRes spec, open double gold/10 -> chalice or Spirit Visage and max oranges while chillin' under your tower farming
Why do people actually go for gp/10 and max oranges style GP?It pretty much makes you useless mid game and other team can just win since other guy is on free farm anyway.Not to mention GP isn't even some champ that has amazing scaling or something....
On April 03 2012 23:30 Mementoss wrote: I played GP top, against a Mordekaiser and got absolutely destroyed. How do you play out this matchup. (low ELO)
Fight him level 1 behind his creeps and kill him.
or whatever, you can just use an MRes spec, open double gold/10 -> chalice or Spirit Visage and max oranges while chillin' under your tower farming
Why do people actually go for gp/10 and max oranges style GP?It pretty much makes you useless mid game and other team can just win since other guy is on free farm anyway.Not to mention GP isn't even some champ that has amazing scaling or something....
because GP sucks ass in lane anyway, so might as well just rice your way to endgame. and you're quite wrong, GP has great scaling and most of his early-mid game utility from top is just dropping ults across the map.
if you want to play a strong laner, you just don't pick GP. He's just straight up weaker than Pantheon in every respect in lane.
GP's good vs. shitty low level sustained damage characters. GP's low level sustained damage is pretty good and he's hard to disengage from if he sticks to you. But he sucks at burst trades, especially past level 3/4ish. So I dunno, he's strong against like, say a Wukong who jumps on him at level 1 rather than waiting until 6 or like, a Morde/Vlad who doesn't open cloth. Shit like that.
On April 04 2012 03:38 Mogwai wrote: GP's good vs. shitty low level sustained damage characters. GP's low level sustained damage is pretty good and he's hard to disengage from if he sticks to you. But he sucks at burst trades, especially past level 3/4ish. So I dunno, he's strong against like, say a Wukong who jumps on him at level 1 rather than waiting until 6 or like, a Morde/Vlad who doesn't open cloth. Shit like that.
i suspect that gp will also do pretty well vs irelia now that her healing has been effectively halved
with those Irelia nerfs, Xin's looking better every day :p.
honestly I think Irelia'll still be fine vs. GP tbh. matchup looks like, "ok, you zone me off first creep wave, then, w/e, idgaf, you still can't trade once I get level 7 and wriggle's."
GP feels a lot like Cho or WW now. You can harass a bit, but you are mostly there to farm all the things and become a force mid and lategame. Also, like Cho and WW, you assist a LOT in ganks. Warwick is king of setting up jungler ganks, but GP is up there too with his two slows, the AoE MS/AS buff and his ability to get out of CC. He even helps set up kills in other lanes, Cannon Barrage still mapwide and overpowered.
I feel that with a tanky build, you can provide a lot during midgame teamfights as a tank. Max W, get a fast Philo Stone and the mana talents in utility and you can eat oranges all day. With a Phage, Shurelia's and Atma's or Hexdrinker/Maw you can be a good pealer for your carries, much like Mundo plays, but with more utility. He is also an amazing initiator. And once you get into lategame, you just do so much damage, as GP always did (Triforce/IE/etc.) if you want him to.
Don't underestimate his kit just because he does not dominate lane anymore. There are few characters that outscale GP and still provide poke, buffs and that amazing ult.
So guys, I started playing GP again after a long time and I figured out a build that has worked really well until now, is there any items you could recommend replacing in this? Start with: that health regen thing that builds into philo and pot,boots and pot or cloth armor and pot. Farm like a boss, first trip back get philo and the crit gold item. then: cooldown boots, sheen, IE or some lifesteal item (I usually get this last since I max heal second after the gun) Normally in that order too. Then trinity force and sell your crit gold thing for a last whisper. And that's it. I normally turn Philo into shurelia's (the one with the speedboost) sometime around getting Trinity or Last whisper, I think earlier would probably be better though, I'll have to try it. The lifesteal item I get is normally Wriggles or Executioner's calling (crit and higher lifesteal value, and cheaper) but it depends on what you need. I first tried fitting atma's into this but then I realized you get about 320 or so damage with this and your resistances are about 100 each which isn't too bad.
Runes: AD reds, AD quints, Armor yellows, MR blues Masteries: 21/3/6 (Change the 3 in defence according to who you think you will vs top) the 6 in utility is mana regen and improved flash/teleport.
If the other team is paying attention they will destroy you as soon as you try to melee someone. Using only Parley every couple seconds isn't going to do much for your team.
On April 06 2012 03:29 Pooshlmer wrote: If the other team is paying attention they will destroy you as soon as you try to melee someone. Using only Parley every couple seconds isn't going to do much for your team.
I was melee most of the time, the only person who managed to kill me repeatedly in one of the games was a really fed kennen with 700 ap when they focused me, which allowed the rest of my team to kill them.You get about 2500-3k hp with this build so I wouldn't say that's squishy.
Lorken, you might not want to sell avarice blade as it definitely helps GP. Try making it into a Youmuu. Also, I would suggest you always rush sheen. Before even Avarice blade.
On April 06 2012 03:29 Pooshlmer wrote: If the other team is paying attention they will destroy you as soon as you try to melee someone. Using only Parley every couple seconds isn't going to do much for your team.
I was melee most of the time, the only person who managed to kill me repeatedly in one of the games was a really fed kennen with 700 ap when they focused me, which allowed the rest of my team to kill them.You get about 2500-3k hp with this build so I wouldn't say that's squishy.
2500 HP GP with low resists dies so quickly if focused and even in farm. In low elo, and leveling i could make critplank work, because people did not even try to focus me, but now when ever i see a GP with full dmg build, i just laugh, and we just wipe him out if he tries to engage on us.
On April 04 2012 08:46 theMarkovian wrote: GP feels a lot like Cho or WW now. You can harass a bit, but you are mostly there to farm all the things and become a force mid and lategame. Also, like Cho and WW, you assist a LOT in ganks. Warwick is king of setting up jungler ganks, but GP is up there too with his two slows, the AoE MS/AS buff and his ability to get out of CC. He even helps set up kills in other lanes, Cannon Barrage still mapwide and overpowered.
I feel that with a tanky build, you can provide a lot during midgame teamfights as a tank. Max W, get a fast Philo Stone and the mana talents in utility and you can eat oranges all day. With a Phage, Shurelia's and Atma's or Hexdrinker/Maw you can be a good pealer for your carries, much like Mundo plays, but with more utility. He is also an amazing initiator. And once you get into lategame, you just do so much damage, as GP always did (Triforce/IE/etc.) if you want him to.
Don't underestimate his kit just because he does not dominate lane anymore. There are few characters that outscale GP and still provide poke, buffs and that amazing ult.
Cho isnt a force at any part of the game.. only mediocre harass and cc early game, but falls off badly. And GP's scaling isnt great. A below average ad steroid.. cant compare him to late game monsters like udyr, mundo, olaf.
On April 06 2012 03:29 Pooshlmer wrote: If the other team is paying attention they will destroy you as soon as you try to melee someone. Using only Parley every couple seconds isn't going to do much for your team.
I was melee most of the time, the only person who managed to kill me repeatedly in one of the games was a really fed kennen with 700 ap when they focused me, which allowed the rest of my team to kill them.You get about 2500-3k hp with this build so I wouldn't say that's squishy.
2500 HP GP with low resists dies so quickly if focused and even in farm. In low elo, and leveling i could make critplank work, because people did not even try to focus me, but now when ever i see a GP with full dmg build, i just laugh, and we just wipe him out if he tries to engage on us.
its not a problem about gp.. its just the meta, melee carries dont work.
On May 11 2012 07:44 storkfan wrote: Cho isnt a force at any part of the game.. only mediocre harass and cc early game, but falls off badly. And GP's scaling isnt great. A below average ad steroid.. cant compare him to late game monsters like udyr, mundo, olaf.
I never said Cho is a force, he just doesn't get pushed out of lane and can assist ganks well, which I felt GP does too when maxing W.
That said, after playing him more, I can't justify him over other bruisers top (nor jungle BTW), except because he is fun. His main selling point is Cannon Barage, but he doesn't dominate lane (Olaf, Riven, Renekton, Udyr) and he isn't a brick wall after a few levels (WW, Shen, Udyr).
Give him blue or red buff at level one (with Teleport) and he becomes the most terrifying laner ever though, denying everyone all day.
On May 11 2012 07:44 storkfan wrote: Cho isnt a force at any part of the game.. only mediocre harass and cc early game, but falls off badly.
I have no idea how you can make a statement like that. Cho can fall off late game depending on how you build him, but if you go something like merc treads/RoA/Deathcap/Void Staff/FoN/FH with the standard defensive rune/mastery setup, you have ~200/200 resists, an obscene amount of hitpoints, and 380 ap, which is nothing to sneeze at given you can do 1200 damage in an area of effect (before resists), with a knockup and a 3 second silence, and your autos do something like 300 damage before resists.
And his prime is mid-game on top of that. It's way easier and faster to reach a stage where you're relevant as Cho'gath than it is Gangplank, because you don't have to be a passive wench for a large portion of the game thanks to carnivore.
Yeah pretty much agreed on Cho being good all-game long depending on what the enemy team comp is like. He's incredible vs double-wota spammy mages because you might as well not attempt to fight back if two of your carries are disabled for 6 seconds in a teamfight.
He falls off late-game but all champions do if they don't scale to do a billion damage.
On May 11 2012 07:44 storkfan wrote: Cho isnt a force at any part of the game.. only mediocre harass and cc early game, but falls off badly.
I have no idea how you can make a statement like that. Cho can fall off late game depending on how you build him, but if you go something like merc treads/RoA/Deathcap/Void Staff/FoN/FH with the standard defensive rune/mastery setup, you have ~200/200 resists, an obscene amount of hitpoints, and 380 ap, which is nothing to sneeze at given you can do 1200 damage in an area of effect (before resists), with a knockup and a 3 second silence, and your autos do something like 300 damage before resists.
And his prime is mid-game on top of that. It's way easier and faster to reach a stage where you're relevant as Cho'gath than it is Gangplank, because you don't have to be a passive wench for a large portion of the game thanks to carnivore.
his ratios are too small and CDs are too big, it doesnt work. Well, no better than other builds of his, he is pretty much ignorable in the current meta.
Are you serious? Cho'gaths ratios are among the highest in the game, 1.0, 0.7, 0.3, 0.7. One of those ratios is on a true damage nuke. You can get 38% CDR, on him pretty easily, 8% from defensive masteries, 20% from frozen heart, 10% from blue elixir, almost capped and he doesn't even have to go out of his way to get that size Frozen Heart is a core item for him. His cooldowns are slightly higher than say, Annie's, but not enough to make a substantial difference. And every single one of his abilities except his ultimate has an AOE.
I honestly don't think you have any idea how Cho'gath fits into the game. If you gave an argument like "rupture is hard to hit" I'd be like "okay, that's definitely the case." But complaining about his AP ratios? For real? The only real issue with Cho is late game AD carries start doing so much damage, but he's more immune to that than most- hit a single rupture, feral scream, feast combo and their AD carry is dead (don't even have to waste feast if they're out of positon or your team follows up properly).
The perception thank Cho scales poorly into the late game probably has to do with people building him janky or pure tank- if they do either, then yes, there is a huge need to win the game before it gets too late.
On May 11 2012 07:44 storkfan wrote: Cho isnt a force at any part of the game.. only mediocre harass and cc early game, but falls off badly.
I have no idea how you can make a statement like that. Cho can fall off late game depending on how you build him, but if you go something like merc treads/RoA/Deathcap/Void Staff/FoN/FH with the standard defensive rune/mastery setup, you have ~200/200 resists, an obscene amount of hitpoints, and 380 ap, which is nothing to sneeze at given you can do 1200 damage in an area of effect (before resists), with a knockup and a 3 second silence, and your autos do something like 300 damage before resists.
And his prime is mid-game on top of that. It's way easier and faster to reach a stage where you're relevant as Cho'gath than it is Gangplank, because you don't have to be a passive wench for a large portion of the game thanks to carnivore.
his ratios are too small and CDs are too big, it doesnt work. Well, no better than other builds of his, he is pretty much ignorable in the current meta.
frozen mallet, wits end, atma's and attackspeed/crit pot and you deal a decent amount of damage imo
Chogath lategame doesn't scale because he has short range. Damn the ap ratios what close range champ is any good lategame. Only long range aps and ad carries are effective. People give a lot of respect to chogath and like new arranged teams like around 1400 often take chogath solo top but how often do you actually see chogath do well? Only hotshot plays him and only sometimes to good effect.
Chogath has short range and no form of mobiliy enhancement and is an unmissable target and poke damage is very non trivial even to a chogath if you don't have at least a fon.
Not to say chogath is bad but definitely very situational.
Before the crit mastery changes and the nerf to his mana cost for Q GP was a boss. I mained the guy for so long until those nerfs but I still remember dominating every top lane by starting with like 26% crit chance at lvl 1, qing until a crit then flash auto atking into ignite. Always got first blood on him lol.
On May 12 2012 01:58 Slayer91 wrote: Chogath lategame doesn't scale because he has short range. Damn the ap ratios what close range champ is any good lategame. Only long range aps and ad carries are effective. Chogath has short range and no form of mobiliy enhancement and is an unmissable target and poke damage is very non trivial even to a chogath if you don't have at least a fon.
Not to say chogath is bad but definitely very situational.
This is the kind of post that makes me clueless about how high elo players think. I'm not saying you're wrong about Cho or I don't value your opinion. Besides the unmissable target point, all the other points also apply to Vladimir (Cho's Q and W have equal or higher range than all of Vlad's spells). Vlad is also often played top, so in both cases it's most likely a double AP comp. Yet, Vlad is a very popular pick lately in competitive play, and I'm sure I've seen him picked early which would be weird for a situationnal pick. So, why is Vlad scaling so well when Cho isn't?
On May 12 2012 01:07 zer0das wrote: Are you serious? Cho'gaths ratios are among the highest in the game, 1.0, 0.7, 0.3, 0.7. One of those ratios is on a true damage nuke. You can get 38% CDR, on him pretty easily, 8% from defensive masteries, 20% from frozen heart, 10% from blue elixir, almost capped and he doesn't even have to go out of his way to get that size Frozen Heart is a core item for him. His cooldowns are slightly higher than say, Annie's, but not enough to make a substantial difference. And every single one of his abilities except his ultimate has an AOE.
I honestly don't think you have any idea how Cho'gath fits into the game. If you gave an argument like "rupture is hard to hit" I'd be like "okay, that's definitely the case." But complaining about his AP ratios? For real? The only real issue with Cho is late game AD carries start doing so much damage, but he's more immune to that than most- hit a single rupture, feral scream, feast combo and their AD carry is dead (don't even have to waste feast if they're out of positon or your team follows up properly).
The perception thank Cho scales poorly into the late game probably has to do with people building him janky or pure tank- if they do either, then yes, there is a huge need to win the game before it gets too late.
long cooldowns, so highratios mean nothing when he can use them much less often than say ahri, ryze or cass
On May 12 2012 01:58 Slayer91 wrote: Chogath lategame doesn't scale because he has short range. Damn the ap ratios what close range champ is any good lategame. Only long range aps and ad carries are effective. Chogath has short range and no form of mobiliy enhancement and is an unmissable target and poke damage is very non trivial even to a chogath if you don't have at least a fon.
Not to say chogath is bad but definitely very situational.
This is the kind of post that makes me clueless about how high elo players think. I'm not saying you're wrong about Cho or I don't value your opinion. Besides the unmissable target point, all the other points also apply to Vladimir (Cho's Q and W have equal or higher range than all of Vlad's spells). Vlad is also often played top, so in both cases it's most likely a double AP comp. Yet, Vlad is a very popular pick lately in competitive play, and I'm sure I've seen him picked early which would be weird for a situationnal pick. So, why is Vlad scaling so well when Cho isn't?
Edit: Moving it to GD.
same thing.. ratios and cooldowns are both proportionally important. vlad has far shorter cooldowns, so he deals much more sustained dmg
Has anyone else noticed GP has really high movespeeds? I jungled him last game and I had movespeed quints. Late game, my movespeed was 490 or something like that
Yeah it's a buff that GP probably needs after all the nerfs done to him. It always seemed weird to have the extra gold mechanic when GPs needed to use all their mana on parrrley shots that harass the enemy champ or else they lose the lane. This way they can farm and harass reasonably with parrrley. Might be better in 1v2 lanes too.
On July 15 2012 16:39 BlackMagister wrote: Yeah it's a buff that GP probably needs after all the nerfs done to him. It always seemed weird to have the extra gold mechanic when GPs needed to use all their mana on parrrley shots that harass the enemy champ or else they lose the lane. This way they can farm and harass reasonably with parrrley. Might be better in 1v2 lanes too.
agreed, i never lane GP for that reason, parley is almost never used on minions so its pointless. lookin forward to this!
On July 17 2012 23:23 Mogwai wrote: you guys play GP wrong. stop shooting the opponent and start spamming oranges.
still a big buff if it's real, but it baffles me that people still consider GP an aggressive laner.
I think it's because no one has played him much since the major nerfs. Except for like... three people. And we're two of them.
It hasn't been worthwhile to parrley your opponent blindly since the loss of the crit mastery, and then the mana increase just meant you ran out of mana ridiculously fast if you stubbornly insisted on doing it anyways. That's still going to happen, but now you can farm in peace much more easily.
About a week or two ago I saw wingsofdeath do this build where to compensate for the Q mana costs while harassing, he kept Q at lvl 1 and leveled E instead for damage and bought sheen as one of his first items. He lost the lane horrifically because of of ganks and botched ganks, but the idea behind his build was interesting enough. I'm not sure the benefits of leveling E is better than W though even in this context. But I really liked the idea of keeping Q at lvl 1 to keep mana costs low and getting Sheen.
On July 18 2012 04:42 101toss wrote: ^also the new dodge boots make gp do so much less damage
also atmogs feels weak, you guys have a replacement build?
QWWEW or QEWWW -> W > E > Q
0/21/9
open boots, philo, hog -> triforce + FH + CDR boots as necessary has been my standard build with a philo -> SV + Chalice variation vs. bullshit lanes like vlade and rumble that can actually knock you around.
Yeah, you basically want to farm until you get too tanky to kill and then go around applying buffs and slows to everyone with your massive gold advantage. GP isn't exactly going to win many lanes anymore, but he's not going to lose a whole lot either.
well thats his problem atm, he gets pressured top and can't win trades, even if you farm decently you scale less than riven jax olaf & co. I don't think gp has a place top atm but he's still has a decent champ overall, can be extremely annoying mid and not a bad support. Really looking forward to this buff as he's always been one of my favourite champ but it's hard to play him nowadays
What I've seen some gangplanks in mid tier elo (1700-1800) do is run teleport flash and ult/tp bot in conjunction with a jungler gank to usually pick up a double kill/dragon. Seems to work pretty will when I've seen it.
On July 18 2012 21:15 RouaF wrote: well thats his problem atm, he gets pressured top and can't win trades, even if you farm decently you scale less than riven jax olaf & co. I don't think gp has a place top atm but he's still has a decent champ overall, can be extremely annoying mid and not a bad support. Really looking forward to this buff as he's always been one of my favourite champ but it's hard to play him nowadays
remove scurvy is pretty broken for trading. He attritions down a lot of champions because they can't deal with him healing for so much off such little mana and outscales most of them. He definitely outscales olaf btw, olaf is such shit late game and GP gives your team a free short CD reverie and a total beating of an ult. He definitely brings more utility than a Riven or a Jax, but they're certainly better at ramboing around teamfights, it depends on what your team needs. The thing is that in solo queue, having a champion that you will literally always be able to get farmed on, even through lane camping, is really really potent (this is really important and the crux of why I'm playing solo top nunu every game these days). Having a floor to how badly you can get destroyed in lane and having unconditional utility for your team means a lot in the current top lane meta.
On July 18 2012 23:45 RuskiPanda wrote: What I've seen some gangplanks in mid tier elo (1700-1800) do is run teleport flash and ult/tp bot in conjunction with a jungler gank to usually pick up a double kill/dragon. Seems to work pretty will when I've seen it.
yea, those are the summoners I run too. No point in ignite or exhaust if you're never even trying to engage your opponent and TP is super duper strong as the game goes on.
On July 18 2012 20:00 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Yeah, you basically want to farm until you get too tanky to kill and then go around applying buffs and slows to everyone with your massive gold advantage. GP isn't exactly going to win many lanes anymore, but he's not going to lose a whole lot either.
Oh he'll still win lanes, just not his own. Global ult strong
On July 18 2012 21:15 RouaF wrote: well thats his problem atm, he gets pressured top and can't win trades, even if you farm decently you scale less than riven jax olaf & co. I don't think gp has a place top atm but he's still has a decent champ overall, can be extremely annoying mid and not a bad support. Really looking forward to this buff as he's always been one of my favourite champ but it's hard to play him nowadays
remove scurvy is pretty broken for trading. He attritions down a lot of champions because they can't deal with him healing for so much off such little mana and outscales most of them. He definitely outscales olaf btw, olaf is such shit late game and GP gives your team a free short CD reverie and a total beating of an ult. He definitely brings more utility than a Riven or a Jax, but they're certainly better at ramboing around teamfights, it depends on what your team needs. The thing is that in solo queue, having a champion that you will literally always be able to get farmed on, even through lane camping, is really really potent (this is really important and the crux of why I'm playing solo top nunu every game these days). Having a floor to how badly you can get destroyed in lane and having unconditional utility for your team means a lot in the current top lane meta.
On July 18 2012 23:45 RuskiPanda wrote: What I've seen some gangplanks in mid tier elo (1700-1800) do is run teleport flash and ult/tp bot in conjunction with a jungler gank to usually pick up a double kill/dragon. Seems to work pretty will when I've seen it.
yea, those are the summoners I run too. No point in ignite or exhaust if you're never even trying to engage your opponent and TP is super duper strong as the game goes on.
well I wish all of this was true but from experience, it's not. I tryharded as GP but at top elo against fotm top picks you'll get shat on. I'm pretty sure it's not only me being bad with gangplank since I haven't seen him top in months, while he was picked a lot before nerfs.
Oh also for the tp thing, i've tried it a lot. The problem is that it makes your laning phase even harder, if you play like this you HAVE to pray that your botlane is not retarded and that you'll be able to make the difference with clutch tp/ults. If bot is not doing well,considering the fact that you won't win your own lane, you're screwed.
It's very good tho if you can make an early buff steal ala m5, but this is very hard to achieve in solo queue.
Just tried out bankplank with 2gp10, gold quints and maxing q for farming, in 25mins got about 10k gold. Though some of that was from the 4kills and assists I had and the 2 or 3 dragons we got. Still 3k gold abover everyone else. I think maxing q is a smarter idea than maxing w it gives much more gold and i found myself rarely needing oranges versus irelia top and panth jungle.
On July 23 2012 03:04 eagle wrote: atmas was never good and its even worst now
Atmog's was quite good til they nerfed mogs by 100 health, then it was ok. 1.5% scaling just broke it though (along with the gp nerfs).
Edit: lol bankplank
Well the other option instead of bankplank is jewplank taking points in the investment banking masteries but I think some people may be slightly offended by that. Unless you are suggesting farmplank, which is not as nice in my eyes.
On July 23 2012 03:04 eagle wrote: atmas was never good and its even worst now
Atmog's was quite good til they nerfed mogs by 100 health, then it was ok. 1.5% scaling just broke it though (along with the gp nerfs).
Edit: lol bankplank
On July 23 2012 02:52 goldenkrnboi wrote: wait, so atmog's isn't good on gp anymore? that's what i'm getting from these last couple of pages :O
Atma is still one of the most efficient items in the game.. it only loses out when you compare it to an expensive 6 items build alternative like trinity or maw in slot effectiveness instead of cost effectiveness.
On July 23 2012 02:52 goldenkrnboi wrote: wait, so atmog's isn't good on gp anymore? that's what i'm getting from these last couple of pages :O
Atma is still one of the most efficient items in the game.. it only loses out when you compare it to an expensive 6 items build alternative like trinity or maw in slot effectiveness instead of cost effectiveness.
Nashors Tooth is also one of the most efficient items in the game. Same logic applies to why they both suck.
On July 23 2012 02:52 goldenkrnboi wrote: wait, so atmog's isn't good on gp anymore? that's what i'm getting from these last couple of pages :O
Back in the day, people built Atmog's because they liked the combination of a lot of health, armor and AD that it granted. Now that it grants less HP and a lot less AD, I find that the only way to justify ever buying Atma's is if your champion can take advantage of that 18% crit chance. Gangplank is one of the few champions (maybe Trynd as well) who really likes all of Atma's stats, so I think Atma's can be a viable item on him in particular, probably alongside an IE.
On July 23 2012 03:04 eagle wrote: atmas was never good and its even worst now
Atmog's was quite good til they nerfed mogs by 100 health, then it was ok. 1.5% scaling just broke it though (along with the gp nerfs).
Edit: lol bankplank
On July 23 2012 02:52 goldenkrnboi wrote: wait, so atmog's isn't good on gp anymore? that's what i'm getting from these last couple of pages :O
Atma is still one of the most efficient items in the game.. it only loses out when you compare it to an expensive 6 items build alternative like trinity or maw in slot effectiveness instead of cost effectiveness.
Nashors Tooth is also one of the most efficient items in the game. Same logic applies to why they both suck.
Thats a hybrid item though, and hybrid items need to be overly efficient to justify purchase. A lot of its efficiency is also in mana regen, wheras atmas stats are all stellar for autoattacking melee champs..
On July 23 2012 02:52 goldenkrnboi wrote: wait, so atmog's isn't good on gp anymore? that's what i'm getting from these last couple of pages :O
Back in the day, people built Atmog's because they liked the combination of a lot of health, armor and AD that it granted. Now that it grants less HP and a lot less AD, I find that the only way to justify ever buying Atma's is if your champion can take advantage of that 18% crit chance. Gangplank is one of the few champions (maybe Trynd as well) who really likes all of Atma's stats, so I think Atma's can be a viable item on him in particular, probably alongside an IE.
One of the few bruisers that uses autoattacks(well ).. ???Mundo, Olaf, Jax, Xin, Darius, Udyr, Shyvana,sion?
Atma's was built a lot in pre-remake Jax quite a bit. Honestly, the warmog nerf really wasn't that big in the big picture (I mean, it reduced your atma's passive by 2ad. That's very negligible).
The main thing about atma's for me is that if I need to build armor, I would almost always rather built warden's -> randuin or glacial -> frozen pretty much in every situation. The AD you got from atma's just isn't good enough to compete with randuin passives+active and frozen passives. In the midst of teamfights I would always always rather have randuin or frozen heart. In comparison atma's just kinda sucks even in the best case scenarios where you have some naturally high health champion that can make full use of the item.
This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
On July 23 2012 05:12 Zato-1 wrote: Back in the day, people built Atmog's because they liked the combination of a lot of health, armor and AD that it granted. Now that it grants less HP and a lot less AD, I find that the only way to justify ever buying Atma's is if your champion can take advantage of that 18% crit chance. Gangplank is one of the few champions (maybe Trynd as well) who really likes all of Atma's stats, so I think Atma's can be a viable item on him in particular, probably alongside an IE.
One of the few bruisers that uses autoattacks(well ).. ???Mundo, Olaf, Jax, Xin, Darius, Udyr, Shyvana,sion?
It's not about autoattacks, the crit stat does the same for autoattacks for every champion.
It's about damage. If 100% of a champion's damage were autoattacks and his skills just did stuff like increase his movespeed and attack speed and AD, then crit would be a great damage stat for that champion because 18% crit would directly translate into 18% more damage.
Now compare that to some of your examples: Shyvana's skills do a ton of damage. What does 18% crit do for her W? Nothing. What abour her E, her R, and her Q? Nothing, nothing and (I think) nothing. So 18% crit only buffs her autoattack damage and thus crit is a shitty stat for her, the same way AP is a shitty stat for her.
Udyr can gain a bit more from the crit stat because his Q gives him AS which synergizes with crit for stronger autoattacks, but crit does nothing for the DOT on his Q, does nothing for his R or E, and even has a special negative synergy with his W. So crit is also a shit stat for Udyr.
You can do the same analysis for most of the champions you listed; crit is also terrible for Jax, Xin and Darius, less so for AD Sion, Mundo and Olaf.
In the case of GP, most of your damage comes from autoattacks + Q, both of which scale with the crit stat (and not a bad scaling like on Garen's E). While 18% crit doesn't quite translate into 18% more total damage because his ult doesn't take advantage of crit, I still feel crit is a fairly good stat on GP.
Uh? How is crit shittier on Xin than on Olaf (for who, depending on your build, axe spam and E can be the majority of the damage, esp. against a mobile target)? Is it because his Q can't crit (iirc)?
On July 23 2012 09:09 Alaric wrote: Uh? How is crit shittier on Xin than on Olaf (for you, depending on your build, axe spam and E can be the majority of the damage, esp. against a mobile target)? Is it because his Q can't crit (iirc)?
I might be wrong on that count. I figured that between the AS from Olaf's passive, the AD & Lifesteal from Vicious Strikes and the ArPen from his ult, crit would be a big boost to his damage and through lifesteal to his survivability, but I'm not very well acquainted with Olaf and maybe he's all about his Q and E as far as his damage is concerned.
As to Xin, yeah I think his Q can't crit, and obviously his E and R can't either, so if you're looking for offensive stats that synergize well with his kit and provide the most cost-efficient damage I'd look more to stats like AD or ArPen or stuff like Wit's End if you also like its MRes.
On July 23 2012 09:09 Alaric wrote: Uh? How is crit shittier on Xin than on Olaf (for you, depending on your build, axe spam and E can be the majority of the damage, esp. against a mobile target)? Is it because his Q can't crit (iirc)?
I might be wrong on that count. I figured that between the AS from Olaf's passive, the AD & Lifesteal from Vicious Strikes and the ArPen from his ult, crit would be a big boost to his damage and through lifesteal to his survivability, but I'm not very well acquainted with Olaf and maybe he's all about his Q and E as far as his damage is concerned.
As to Xin, yeah I think his Q can't crit, and obviously his E and R can't either, so if you're looking for offensive stats that synergize well with his kit and provide the most cost-efficient damage I'd look more to stats like AD or ArPen or stuff like Wit's End if you also like its MRes.
its still time spent autoattacking, not casting spells,even if the bonus damage doesnt crit. Same with jax - his magic damage doesnt crit but he is autoattacking so he can use it a lot. And in general, if you build very tanky ad skills with their base dmg and cdr of tanky items are so powerful compared to autoattacks that crit doesnt do much. However if you build 6000+ gold worth of damage already, the multiplicative effect of autoattack items will far overshadow the damage of skills, especially on the steroided bruisers that i mentioned, making atmas high gold efficiency completely useful.
gp feels pretty good to me still atm. i dont try to do anything but farm for the entire laning phase. philo, avarice, triforce, lw. same build i used a year ago lol and it still works fine. once u get philo u can last hit all day with q. by 30 min i had +700g from philo and avarice each, and +800 from q. we had basically won by that point but i had tons of gold still so i got ie and chunked their soraka and ez for 75% of their life in one q. gp is probably one of the hardest scaling top laners there is, and he still gets beastly late game. not sure why everyone thinks he sucks.
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
since gp5 arent unique anymore, jewplanks pretty much dead now
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
since gp5 arent unique anymore, jewplanks pretty much dead now
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
since gp5 arent unique anymore, jewplanks pretty much dead now
wat
super old build when gp deny was still in the game. start E, and begin denying from spawn. get 2 philo, hog, avarice. then cdr or merc boots. basically save up until you have like 3k, then sell a gold item and get IE. Repeat for PD, ghostblade, BT, w/e the fuck you want. Have 6 big items by 30 minute mark at the latest, while your opponent has nothing 'cause you're using E on cooldown and you have shitton of gold from gold items+Q which gave like 16 extra gold per last hit. Then go around 1-shotting carries with your hand cannon. No need to be tanky 'cause you 1-shot everything that's not a tank and ur Q cd is low enough w/ cdr boots+ghostblade. Or you could be lame and do the whole atmogs+Triforce stuff.
you can still kinda do it, but not really since the only gold item worth getting on GP now is philo. Mayyyyyybe avarice if you're getting fed sub-10 minutes and want ghostblade.
Back then people didn't really realize how good philo was (+ all the top laners who could fight were super bursty because it was the only way to break through everyone's infinite sustain, meaning philo's HP regen didn't do that much), so you might go 1-2 philo but usually you just stacked avarice blades (lol...).
On July 24 2012 12:53 UniversalSnip wrote: Back then people didn't really realize how good philo was (+ all the top laners who could fight were super bursty because it was the only way to break through everyone's infinite sustain, meaning philo's HP regen didn't do that much), so you might go 1-2 philo but usually you just stacked avarice blades (lol...).
And yes, the name is super offensive.
you wanted the philo for mana regen more than anything iirc. Q costed a LOT of mana. It was something like 70 mana per Q at lvl 5. Not to mention if you were spamming E on cooldown you'd go oom really really fast w/out philos.
On July 24 2012 14:38 nyxnyxnyx wrote: to me nothing beats hotshot gp build
philo chalice spirit visage LOL
That's actually not such a bad build if you have a though time in lane against a magic damage opponent, that build pretty much lets you always stay in lane and farm, tho I wouldn't really get a SV.
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
since gp5 arent unique anymore, jewplanks pretty much dead now
stop spreading misinformation please wtf? you can have all the gp5 items on one champ, it's just you don't get the bonus if you have more than 1 of each.. like 2x philo or 2x hog. but you can have philo, hog, avarice, kage's and all of that gp5 will stack
On July 24 2012 15:58 nyxnyxnyx wrote: ok that build lets you stay in lane and farm...and then what?
Get gold and kill people. Or you can get denied because you bought a "good" item and get bullied out of lane. At above post, GP10 isn't unique. If it was unique you couldn't stack it, but you can.
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
since gp5 arent unique anymore, jewplanks pretty much dead now
stop spreading misinformation please wtf? you can have all the gp5 items on one champ, it's just you don't get the bonus if you have more than 1 of each.. like 2x philo or 2x hog. but you can have philo, hog, avarice, kage's and all of that gp5 will stack
He was referring to before the gold generation component of gp/10 items became unique. Way back in the day, the gold generation passive wasn't unique so you could stack 2 philos and have the same gold generation as stacking a philo+hog now. Back then every champion (except maybe AD carries) and their mother would go some stupid shit like 2 philo+hog or 2 hog+philo then build real items since that crap was crazy efficient, cheap, and reliable.
GP10 is unique because you can't stack the same items. GP10 is unique the way cdr is: you can't stack several brutalizers, but you can stack it with randuin's.
So... I played too much gangplank on my 1700 smurf and got a warning from riot. First picking gangplank apparently isn't appreciated yet won most of my games tho, being going mostly philo hog avarice glacial/cdr boots and then either mallet or maw or triforce. Laning top is still hard against most fotm picks,
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
since gp5 arent unique anymore, jewplanks pretty much dead now
stop spreading misinformation please wtf? you can have all the gp5 items on one champ, it's just you don't get the bonus if you have more than 1 of each.. like 2x philo or 2x hog. but you can have philo, hog, avarice, kage's and all of that gp5 will stack
He was referring to before the gold generation component of gp/10 items became unique. Way back in the day, the gold generation passive wasn't unique so you could stack 2 philos and have the same gold generation as stacking a philo+hog now. Back then every champion (except maybe AD carries) and their mother would go some stupid shit like 2 philo+hog or 2 hog+philo then build real items since that crap was crazy efficient, cheap, and reliable.
The way he phrased it made it sound like the gp/5 nerf was reverted. In other words, I was going to do some philo/hog stacking on jarvan again.
On July 24 2012 21:44 RouaF wrote: So... I played too much gangplank on my 1700 smurf and got a warning from riot. First picking gangplank apparently isn't appreciated yet won most of my games tho, being going mostly philo hog avarice glacial/cdr boots and then either mallet or maw or triforce. Laning top is still hard against most fotm picks,
fping gp is kind of asking for trouble. i run my gp with crit reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blue and gp10 quints. 9/0/21 is very very good on gp for a jewplank build (ms,mana,manaregen,gp10), if im starting blue or have a fear of getting lvl 2-4 camped i can pick up boots 3 pots and a ward thanks to the wealth mastery. just play like a bitch and get pushed, freeze at turret till u get nuf money for tabi and hog, i find that philo first leaves you very squishy early and with the recent mana buffs to parley i just focus on qing the creeps. it helps a lot to have a good jungler that can help u to push in people that try to freeze the lane at turret and zone you from cs as gp doesnt trade well vs most of the fotm toplane picks. hog -> tabi -> philo -> avarice -> phage into tf ga warmogs atma. the new parley simply works as 1.5 gp10 item if you can freely q spam the creeps. you need smart creepwave managment.
i just love getting pushed in early, you are very very safe and the enemy laner is under a lot of pressure because of gps passive combined with a possible gank and if gp snowballs from this its really really ugly for the opponent
i like the crit reds, it synergises with avarice and gps whole kit, some people will think twice about trading with you if they eat a q crit. it just preference, you can put here anything you want i feel.
the worst thing that you can do is to get trigger happy on the enemy laner early and pushing the lane which opens u to ganks in the most important laning phase for jewplank.
i played like this on multiple accounts spanning from unranked (love smurfing :3) to plat and found great success. while solo u seem to not put much pressure on top but you have global presence with the ultimate and if you can hit the 20+ minute mark you will come out very very strong
On July 24 2012 21:44 RouaF wrote: So... I played too much gangplank on my 1700 smurf and got a warning from riot. First picking gangplank apparently isn't appreciated yet won most of my games tho, being going mostly philo hog avarice glacial/cdr boots and then either mallet or maw or triforce. Laning top is still hard against most fotm picks,
fping gp is kind of asking for trouble. i run my gp with crit reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blue and gp10 quints. 9/0/21 is very very good on gp for a jewplank build (ms,mana,manaregen,gp10), if im starting blue or have a fear of getting lvl 2-4 camped i can pick up boots 3 pots and a ward thanks to the wealth mastery. just play like a bitch and get pushed, freeze at turret till u get nuf money for tabi and hog, i find that philo first leaves you very squishy early and with the recent mana buffs to parley i just focus on qing the creeps. it helps a lot to have a good jungler that can help u to push in people that try to freeze the lane at turret and zone you from cs as gp doesnt trade well vs most of the fotm toplane picks. hog -> tabi -> philo -> avarice -> phage into tf ga warmogs atma. the new parley simply works as 1.5 gp10 item if you can freely q spam the creeps. you need smart creepwave managment.
i just love getting pushed in early, you are very very safe and the enemy laner is under a lot of pressure because of gps passive combined with a possible gank and if gp snowballs from this its really really ugly for the opponent
i like the crit reds, it synergises with avarice and gps whole kit, some people will think twice about trading with you if they eat a q crit. it just preference, you can put here anything you want i feel.
the worst thing that you can do is to get trigger happy on the enemy laner early and pushing the lane which opens u to ganks in the most important laning phase for jewplank.
i played like this on multiple accounts spanning from unranked (love smurfing :3) to plat and found great success. while solo u seem to not put much pressure on top but you have global presence with the ultimate and if you can hit the 20+ minute mark you will come out very very strong
well this is 1700 so yeah I'm not gonna try hard, I just want to play gp, first pick or not. I'll try your build but I don't see the point of crit runes since you're supposed to spam parrley on creeps, especially with support masteries. It lacks cdr also which is a bit annoying, no cdr = less q spam (=less money) and less utility from all your other spells... (especially ult).
On July 25 2012 03:18 RouaF wrote: well this is 1700 so yeah I'm not gonna try hard, I just want to play gp, first pick or not. I'll try your build but I don't see the point of crit runes since you're supposed to spam parrley on creeps, especially with support masteries. It lacks cdr also which is a bit annoying, no cdr = less q spam (=less money) and less utility from all your other spells... (especially ult).
not a big fan of fh/cdr items on gp i must admit, have to give it a spin.the crit reds are mostly for the intimidating "back off" effect a q crit can have on people but as i said you can put anything on reds and be fine with this build (no gp10 reds ;_;).
>no cdr = less q spam (=less money)
money is the last problem u gonna have with this build lol
On July 23 2012 08:01 napo wrote: This shit pretty awesome. Been going double gp/10, aegis, zeke's. Man that build has so much potential, wouldnt have thought. Its the good guy gp build, always help team, never not help.
Huh, guess I must be using the scumbag bankplank build then, Philo, avarice, boots, glacial , warmogs, frozen heart, force of nature and then ghostblade selling the philo for space when needed and maybe getting either a tanky item or an ie or bt for more damage.
since gp5 arent unique anymore, jewplanks pretty much dead now
stop spreading misinformation please wtf? you can have all the gp5 items on one champ, it's just you don't get the bonus if you have more than 1 of each.. like 2x philo or 2x hog. but you can have philo, hog, avarice, kage's and all of that gp5 will stack
He was referring to before the gold generation component of gp/10 items became unique. Way back in the day, the gold generation passive wasn't unique so you could stack 2 philos and have the same gold generation as stacking a philo+hog now. Back then every champion (except maybe AD carries) and their mother would go some stupid shit like 2 philo+hog or 2 hog+philo then build real items since that crap was crazy efficient, cheap, and reliable.
The way he phrased it made it sound like the gp/5 nerf was reverted. In other words, I was going to do some philo/hog stacking on jarvan again.
Unfortunately, gp5 are still unique.
It was a typo calm down. anyone who knew what Jewplank was knew what I was talking about
Started playing a bit of GP. Feels really nice in lane to go complete jew mode now. Put points into orange until enemy laner can no longer harass you out, and then Q for more money, with one point in E. Can basically sit on philo and have enough mana to W on CD and still last hit minions without ooming for a while. Just sitting in lane and farming up puts immense pressure on most enemy laners because of how hard GP scales once he gets a couple of big items. Still has insane gank assistance and global presence with ulti.
And what lane actually does counter GP? I've been practicing some Bankplank recently, and i feel he is super safe at lane. Trying to force him out when he has his TP, safe farming with Q, and oranges feels like a waste of time, and he supports ganks pretty well... I've been going 1-2 GP5, aegis -> trinity... Something that Kev1n did in the regionals, but have been thinking of some other builds too, maybe skipping that aegis, but with TP it just seems so strong if you get it, and TP into a fight.
Im pretty new to the game and I heard he got nerfed really hard some time ago I wonder is Jungle GP any good? I found guide by theoddone (not updated for like half a year) and he seems to not pick him.
On September 23 2012 20:24 Taktik wrote: Im pretty new to the game and I heard he got nerfed really hard some time ago I wonder is Jungle GP any good? I found guide by theoddone (not updated for like half a year) and he seems to not pick him.
I like Gangplank a lot better as a solo top champion, myself. The lack of any AoE damage on his base skills means his jungle clear speed isn't very good, his ganks are weak pre-level 6, and his role in a team later on is kind of suspect if he didn't get massive amounts of gold like he can when he's playing top lane. You can still play him as a jungler and he isn't terrible at it, but I feel there are a lot of significantly better choices so it's a bit of a waste for to put him in the jungle.
On September 23 2012 20:24 Taktik wrote: Im pretty new to the game and I heard he got nerfed really hard some time ago I wonder is Jungle GP any good? I found guide by theoddone (not updated for like half a year) and he seems to not pick him.
I like Gangplank a lot better as a solo top champion, myself. The lack of any AoE damage on his base skills means his jungle clear speed isn't very good, his ganks are weak pre-level 6, and his role in a team later on is kind of suspect if he didn't get massive amounts of gold like he can when he's playing top lane. You can still play him as a jungler and he isn't terrible at it, but I feel there are a lot of significantly better choices so it's a bit of a waste for to put him in the jungle.
I'd say he is pretty bad at it. He can't really gank, and his clear really slow. Its not even like he has all sorts of objective control. Jungle GP just likely to get outfarmed, get outganked (because the other junglers clear time way faster, more time to gank... probably even have better ganks.).
He used to be used a lot because all the top teams played this real passive style, although thats been replaced now by the korean style push comps and low econ games etc, and the last time he was really jungled a lot he had a much better E that raised his and his teams attack/movespeeed by almost twice as much (he also got some pretty substantial Mana nerfs, iirc), and the jungle itself was much harder to clear (monsters did more damage, had more life) so you kind of needed GP's W sustain in the jungle. Now however dont really need that much sustain for jungle and lots of champs that had rough times clearing before clear easily with AoE.
GP really shines now a days as kind of a lategame tanky bruiser because his massive amounts of nerfs kind of hurt his early laning. He still really good at just maxing W, getting, and being a pain in the butt to deal with late game though, and that Ult brings a lot to the table. I've seen him being played 4 or 5 times in the last few months at a tournament level, but not really at all in Soloqueue, mostly because he just kind of out of style right now, and the quickly shoving towers is a big thing right now.
On September 16 2012 21:03 Gaslo wrote: Getting warned for picking GP, what, why?
And what lane actually does counter GP? I've been practicing some Bankplank recently, and i feel he is super safe at lane. Trying to force him out when he has his TP, safe farming with Q, and oranges feels like a waste of time, and he supports ganks pretty well... I've been going 1-2 GP5, aegis -> trinity... Something that Kev1n did in the regionals, but have been thinking of some other builds too, maybe skipping that aegis, but with TP it just seems so strong if you get it, and TP into a fight.
ive pretty much found the same lately, especially the gank support, and almost uncounterable.
i usually go boots, philo, chalice core. and max either w or q depending on how tough the lane is. w max gp is ridiculous. he is currently one of my favorite picks.
1-2 GP5s? Pff. Y'all don't know how to Bankplank. 18/0/12 or 0/18/12 with gold masteries, Boots/mix of red and blue pot start, philo/HoG/Avarice core. At ~20-25 minutes, go back, buy two of any of the following straight out: BT/IE/GA/Defensive choice item, then farm until you can sell GP5s and get the rest. Get assists with R, never fight in lane because you have no fucking damage, and then crush the game once it gets past 30 minutes because you have a full build while people are still putzing around with Doran's and naked BFSwords.
How do you build Gangplank when counterpicking mid? I've been going Boots+3, Chalice, Mercs and its been working well so far but that could be due to bad players. Would stacking a couple Dorans be better?
On October 19 2012 01:48 Hyren wrote: How do you build Gangplank when counterpicking mid? I've been going Boots+3, Chalice, Mercs and its been working well so far but that could be due to bad players. Would stacking a couple Dorans be better?
id go philo or something over chalice, but chalice might be okay. i think chalice was more key when you needed the mp5 to deny and use parley on minions. hog/philo avarice maybe? farm like fuck.
So I've seen some gp mid with tiamat in TSM weekly, is it any good top? Or u can build tiamat only in mid? And when to buy it? Just rush to it as a first item? And which skills lvl, max Q first? And any thoughts about jungle gp?
On October 30 2012 08:40 Taktik wrote: So I've seen some gp mid with tiamat in TSM weekly, is it any good top? Or u can build tiamat only in mid? And when to buy it? Just rush to it as a first item? And which skills lvl, max Q first? And any thoughts about jungle gp?
I'm not sure about tiamat, but I know that the general consensus is that GP is a pretty bad jungle right now. His clear speed is low and his ganks are pretty weak, but he is capable of doing it....just sooo many better options that would help your team a lot more.
GP used to be a strong jungle back in the day, but he's gotten hit by nerf after nerf and the meta changed to be more support-oriented jungles with fast clear speeds. Even then, he was a more fragile option and slower than many of the farm-oriented jungles popular back then (Udyr, Nocturne). Right now it's hard to justify jungling on him - he just doesn't do much without a dedicated lane to farm.
I saw one game with Tiamat on the tourney you were talking about, but that was to specifically counter the other team's reliance on melee, and also to counter the other team's mid (I think Diana?). I don't really see it becoming a dominant strat by any means.
He was also really hurt by the jungle remake turning to really favor AoE junglers over single target junglers, which may change in S3. He gets decent gold out of the jungle as opposed to other single target junglers because of Parrrley and getting assists with R, but he's still not like Skarner who can clear the whole jungle in like 20 seconds and then go gank.
But yes, his ganks are pretty minimal (good damage and a slow isn't nearly as good as lots of CC), and he wants more farm, so put him in lane for the time being. Tiamat is cool.
Has anyone theorycrafted top lane bankplank changes with the new masteries and items?
Bankplank being something like gp10 quints, boots -> philo + another gp10, then slowly going for triforce, warmog, IE -- something like that. (I often get Aegis before triforce depending on how it's going.)
Pickpocket looks sweet, beyond giving you a financial incentive to hit your opponent whenever you want it also procs for 5 gold on parley. Since I was going for the Greed mastery anyway, it's very tempting to put 21 points into the support masteries against safe lanes.
I'm undecided about the new items, though, and it'll take a while to figure out what works and what doesn't. (I don't play on PBE). Has anyone done the math on how AA-heavy champions might replace IE with new items? Is IE still easily the most gold-efficient once you get a second large item, or is it less clear now?
Frozen Fist (instead of Triforce) against AD heavy tops looks good, and I'm not yet sure whether Statikk Shiv is good or not, but it seems like it has good stats for GP. Sword of the Divine looks interesting but the 60s cooldown seems too brutal; Runaan's doesn't really fit GP's kit (you're not trying to split push), though maybe Hydra would work for the AA reset on its active.
Bankplank is kind of... not as good now. HoG is gone, and Kage's was always kind of a joke item on him and is nerfed anyway. Philo isn't as strong for lane sustain (though maybe still worth a buy if you just want the mp5 and gold). Avarice is more or less core on him, though.
Pickpocket seems good, but with level 2 Q you're getting just as much gold (more from 3+) using Q on a last hit, so it's never really a reason to prioritize shooting an enemy over the minions after a certain point. However, of course your autos are top notch, but if you're deep enough into the Utility tree to get Pickpocket, you don't want to be autoing people before items anyway.
I have no idea what I'm going to build on him o.O. My personal old core of IE/Mallet/Aegis/Mercs will probably still work, but he can totally make use of a lot of the new and improved items. SV is as good as it was before, but better because more MR.
Iceborne Gauntlet seems pretty cool, but I don't know how it'll measure up to having a TF. I mean, I know I've been theorycrafting it on everyone for the most part, but for GP, that's a pretty good semi-initiate (slow everyone, burst and extra slow your target) to follow up a Malph ult or something. Plus, CDR and Armor are pretty good ofc. I mean, TF + FH is stronger if you have the gold, but I think it's a pretty good bang for your buck.
I just unlocked GP last night, trying to figure out a good build for him (laning top as opposed to jungle). After getting upgraded boots and a dorans blade (possibly a philo stone as well), the sensible next item(s) for him would seem to be phage into frozen mallet - he needs the HP, and mallet pretty much guarantees no escape after hitting with Q. My question to veteran GP users is, does GP even need FM when his passive basically does the same thing? I'm thinking maybe a brutalizer followed by IE could be a lot better if he doesn't really need the mallet slow.
GP can be kited even with the slow + oranges. If you're going to be diving today's blink and dash ADC meta, you need to stick harder than just his passive slow.
On December 05 2012 04:29 rhs408 wrote: I just unlocked GP last night, trying to figure out a good build for him (laning top as opposed to jungle). After getting upgraded boots and a dorans blade (possibly a philo stone as well), the sensible next item(s) for him would seem to be phage into frozen mallet - he needs the HP, and mallet pretty much guarantees no escape after hitting with Q. My question to veteran GP users is, does GP even need FM when his passive basically does the same thing? I'm thinking maybe a brutalizer followed by IE could be a lot better if he doesn't really need the mallet slow.
Triforce is actually really nice on him if you're going Phage anyway. Sheen makes your Q hit a lot harder, the attack speed and move speed are both good on him too. I'd prefer Triforce over FM, but I usually build other tanky items too.
I'd been jungling/top as GP for a while now and am fairly excited for the new jungle(Machete OP), I always just ran 9/21/0 and went Boots>Wriggles>HoG>Phage>Aegis>Hexdrinker>Randuins/Mallet/Maw whenever. You tended be pretty beefcake and still did a whole bunch of damage.
On December 05 2012 12:39 Ghost-z wrote: What about support GP? I've heard that the pick pocket mastery gives him the full 5 gold on hit (since he's melee). Can anyone confirm this?
What's there to confirm? His auto attacks will give him 5 gold because he's melee. Pretty straightfoward
On December 05 2012 12:39 Ghost-z wrote: What about support GP? I've heard that the pick pocket mastery gives him the full 5 gold on hit (since he's melee). Can anyone confirm this?
What's there to confirm? His auto attacks will give him 5 gold because he's melee. Pretty straightfoward
On December 05 2012 12:39 Ghost-z wrote: What about support GP? I've heard that the pick pocket mastery gives him the full 5 gold on hit (since he's melee). Can anyone confirm this?
What's there to confirm? His auto attacks will give him 5 gold because he's melee. Pretty straightfoward
On Q he means.
Q counts as a melee and triggers pickpocket for 5G.
On December 05 2012 12:39 Ghost-z wrote: What about support GP? I've heard that the pick pocket mastery gives him the full 5 gold on hit (since he's melee). Can anyone confirm this?
What's there to confirm? His auto attacks will give him 5 gold because he's melee. Pretty straightfoward
On Q he means.
Q counts as a melee and triggers pickpocket for 5G.
Yea sorry I did mean on his Q. That's a definate buff to support GP then since you'll only be Qing champions. Won't help him top lane since his Q gives better gold for killing creeps.
Yeah, i've been running support GP with fantastic results. He is very similar to nunu, except with a much stronger ice blast and a free cleanse. Parrley has 1 less second cd than ice blast, and it has 1 more range. His raise morale is only slightly worse than bloodboil (it also gives ad). GP is excellent at zoning other champions, and each time you parrley you get 5 gold. He shuts down champs like taric who try to stun him out of position. He also clears traps for free. Doesn't run out of mana if you get vial first. I had a lot of fun with it, and I hope everyone tries it. Popularize our favorite pirate champion again! =)
Iceball is strong as an AS debuff (flat from level 1), not as a damage tool, so in that sense Nunu's better than GP. He deals less damage but bloodboil is permanent compared to Raise Morale.
People saying pickpocket is worthless on top GP because you get more gold for Qing creeps? What?
If you aren't Qing the other laner in between last hits and to force them out you are doing it wrong. Going that deep into utility is the only risky part of running pickpocket top.
I'm interested to try Cleaver stacking on GP. Maybe open Philo, boots, into 2-4 BC's, upgrading to eleisas to keep the regen and open the slot for IE, then maybe PD/Atmas.
On December 08 2012 14:43 sob3k wrote: People saying pickpocket is worthless on top GP because you get more gold for Qing creeps? What?
If you aren't Qing the other laner in between last hits and to force them out you are doing it wrong. Going that deep into utility is the only risky part of running pickpocket top.
I'm interested to try Cleaver stacking on GP. Maybe open Philo, boots, into 2-4 BC's, upgrading to eleisas to keep the regen and open the slot for IE, then maybe PD/Atmas.
I agree. I would run pickpocket on everyone if it were easily reachable with 30 points in the offense and defence trees.
On December 05 2012 12:39 Ghost-z wrote: What about support GP? I've heard that the pick pocket mastery gives him the full 5 gold on hit (since he's melee). Can anyone confirm this?
What's there to confirm? His auto attacks will give him 5 gold because he's melee. Pretty straightfoward
On December 08 2012 14:09 Alaric wrote: Iceball is strong as an AS debuff (flat from level 1), not as a damage tool, so in that sense Nunu's better than GP. He deals less damage but bloodboil is permanent compared to Raise Morale.
Bloodboil isn't permanent, but yes it lasts quite a bit longer than raise morale. Iceball is different than parrley, but I would still say that parrley is more effective in lane (not in a direct 100-0 engagement obviously, but great for other reasons). Bloodboil also doesn't give bonus ad to your adc like Raise Morale does.
On December 08 2012 14:09 Alaric wrote: Iceball is strong as an AS debuff (flat from level 1), not as a damage tool, so in that sense Nunu's better than GP. He deals less damage but bloodboil is permanent compared to Raise Morale.
Bloodboil isn't permanent, but yes it lasts quite a bit longer than raise morale. Iceball is different than parrley, but I would still say that parrley is more effective in lane (not in a direct 100-0 engagement obviously, but great for other reasons). Bloodboil also doesn't give bonus ad to your adc like Raise Morale does.
I think that he means that bloodboil can be applied forever by just recasting it on yourself. Bloodboil and raise morale are both VERY good steroids for your carry, with bloodboil maybe being a bit stronger since it gives alot of movespeed and like 64% attackspeed compared to GP's 40 or someething AD and 15%~ movespeed(of course this is evened out by the fact that GP's entire team gets half the buff, not just the carry)
On December 08 2012 14:09 Alaric wrote: Iceball is strong as an AS debuff (flat from level 1), not as a damage tool, so in that sense Nunu's better than GP. He deals less damage but bloodboil is permanent compared to Raise Morale.
Bloodboil isn't permanent, but yes it lasts quite a bit longer than raise morale. Iceball is different than parrley, but I would still say that parrley is more effective in lane (not in a direct 100-0 engagement obviously, but great for other reasons). Bloodboil also doesn't give bonus ad to your adc like Raise Morale does.
I think that he means that bloodboil can be applied forever by just recasting it on yourself. Bloodboil and raise morale are both VERY good steroids for your carry, with bloodboil maybe being a bit stronger since it gives alot of movespeed and like 64% attackspeed compared to GP's 40 or someething AD and 15%~ movespeed(of course this is evened out by the fact that GP's entire team gets half the buff, not just the carry)
Yes, but with the modifications from s3, AS is suddenly worth so much more than AD (we're talking about a "balanced" build stat-wise), since the stat is more expensive and general and you can't get it from Zeke's anymore. You could argue than both teams can get zeke's so it cancels out, but even then having 70% bonus AS to 90 is relatively worse than having 90% to 110%.
The Raise Morale AoE effect is short-lived and has downtime, despite its teamwide utility, so in lane, especially when going for poke and harass rather than full-on engagements, your opponents can't abuse a downtime in your steroid unless you run oom. Though it is true that Nunu doesn't do much damage by himself when maxing W first, he also allows to dictate trades through superior mobility, and cripples AS-based carries (Ashe, Vayne notably) and those who need mobility (Draven won't be able to catch axes while slowed).
On December 09 2012 07:04 Alaric wrote: Yes, but with the modifications from s3, AS is suddenly worth so much more than AD (we're talking about a "balanced" build stat-wise), since the stat is more expensive and general and you can't get it from Zeke's anymore. You could argue than both teams can get zeke's so it cancels out, but even then having 70% bonus AS to 90 is relatively worse than having 90% to 110%.
The Raise Morale AoE effect is short-lived and has downtime, despite its teamwide utility, so in lane, especially when going for poke and harass rather than full-on engagements, your opponents can't abuse a downtime in your steroid unless you run oom. Though it is true that Nunu doesn't do much damage by himself when maxing W first, he also allows to dictate trades through superior mobility, and cripples AS-based carries (Ashe, Vayne notably) and those who need mobility (Draven won't be able to catch axes while slowed).
I don't think Vayne is AS-based unless she's maxing silver bolts.
I think whether an ADC wants more aspd or more AD depends on the champ. Trist and Graves for example get a lot of aspd from steroids so they would prefer more AD in general.
With relevancy to this thread, I don't think GP is a good support, but then again I don't think Nunu is a good one either but people have had great success with Cait Nunu in IPL5 and even before IPL5.
Been running gp in the jungle this patch, not extremely viable but a lot of fun. I run 9/21/0 with attack speed marks, armor yellows, and scaling mr blues, with movespeed quints.
Item path goes something along the lines of machete --> wriggles (get flask early as well) --> boots (upgraded into mercs/tabi) --> and then from there whatevers needed (aegis, hexdrinker, fh). If damage is needed I try to get trinity as well late game.
I find I clear pretty decently if I max E first. If I have red I see if I can do a quick gank early, but otherwise I try to get 6 as fast as possible. Your ult has a ton of utility and can easily turn around some midgame fights.
The best part is how awesome GP is late game, with a bunch of cdr and tankiness, you're a beast in teamfights.
I tried support gp on the theory support gets more stuff now and his individual scaling is better than nunu's, it was better than I expected but I wasn't a huge fan... I can see it working though. You do a lot of stuff but you're kinda meh at all of it, your laning is ok, your buff is mediocre, your initiation is ok, your peel is non-existent. I think at a certain point you need to recognize building utility is only going to get you so far. I ended with like bulwark crucible shurelya's locket when I should have cut the crucible out and just built an atmas. When you get down to it GP with a lot of items is still GP whatever the lane and a combination of AD, tankiness and CDR could make him pretty relevant late coming out of the support role.
Has anyone else tried an on hit cdr build with manamune on gp ? I had some fun with it, albeit in a low level game.
Basiaclly I went manamune/shiv into frozen heart , which gives you like 300 magic dmg extra on every Q and allows it to crit. Gauntlet is possible, but seems overkill since you need to get tanky at some point. Shiv maybe also not the greatest but manamune is really strong on gp now, as it also grants sustain if you max W second.
How about Statikk Shiv? Since it charges from you running around (~10% per teemo that you move), you could most likely get the proc for every Parley, and the proc can crit, too. It has the side effect of always push wave unless you stand still a lot, but I'd assume you're not gonna finish it THAT early. Would add significantly to his ability to splitpush later on - something he does enjoy doing with his high natural movespeed and global ult.
Seems like a good thing to build from Avarice, though.
I've come under the impression that Statikk Shiv, Iceborn Gauntlet, and Spirit Visage is the new TrinityForce on GP. Those 3 items replace everything that TF gives you (except 30 AD) but they grant more base stats and also give you CDR, Armor/MR and more passives!
If you spec 9-0-21 that caps you at 40% CDR! If you don't get 10% CDR from masteries then just build everyone's favorite new item, Black Cleaver, and you reach 40% CDR and get 50 AD and ArmorPen.
On December 12 2012 05:24 Ghost-z wrote: I've come under the impression that Statikk Shiv, Iceborn Gauntlet, and Spirit Visage is the new TrinityForce on GP. Those 3 items replace everything that TF gives you (except 30 AD) but they grant more base stats and also give you CDR, Armor/MR and more passives!
If you spec 9-0-21 that caps you at 40% CDR! If you don't get 10% CDR from masteries then just build everyone's favorite new item, Black Cleaver, and you reach 40% CDR and get 50 AD and ArmorPen.
I don't think Shiv fits in there at all unless you consider BC part of that "core". Getting AS and Crit without building any AD whatsoever seems kind of useless. And since you have no AD, you're just hoping to be tanky and letting IBG procced Qs do all your damage, since your autos won't do much on their own. And if you're playing Tankplank, that's fine, but then Shiv doesn't fit in at all. Luckily, plenty of AD items work with GP if you want to go Shiv.
As far as I'm concerned it works all the same with Philo and Avarice although you have to keep up actively farming the minions. You can also spec 21 Utility for extra gold/10 and with the pick pocket mastery you don't miss out on much gold by using your Q to harass the enemy laner. GP's parrley procs the full 5 gold from pick pocket and I like it when playing support GP in normals because you can easily "out farm" the other support.
On December 12 2012 05:24 Ghost-z wrote: I've come under the impression that Statikk Shiv, Iceborn Gauntlet, and Spirit Visage is the new TrinityForce on GP. Those 3 items replace everything that TF gives you (except 30 AD) but they grant more base stats and also give you CDR, Armor/MR and more passives!
If you spec 9-0-21 that caps you at 40% CDR! If you don't get 10% CDR from masteries then just build everyone's favorite new item, Black Cleaver, and you reach 40% CDR and get 50 AD and ArmorPen.
I don't think Shiv fits in there at all unless you consider BC part of that "core". Getting AS and Crit without building any AD whatsoever seems kind of useless. And since you have no AD, you're just hoping to be tanky and letting IBG procced Qs do all your damage, since your autos won't do much on their own. And if you're playing Tankplank, that's fine, but then Shiv doesn't fit in at all. Luckily, plenty of AD items work with GP if you want to go Shiv.
i feel like shiv would be good for pushing, but if i wanted to that then i'd rather go for tiamat -> hydra than shiv.
On December 12 2012 05:24 Ghost-z wrote: I've come under the impression that Statikk Shiv, Iceborn Gauntlet, and Spirit Visage is the new TrinityForce on GP. Those 3 items replace everything that TF gives you (except 30 AD) but they grant more base stats and also give you CDR, Armor/MR and more passives!
If you spec 9-0-21 that caps you at 40% CDR! If you don't get 10% CDR from masteries then just build everyone's favorite new item, Black Cleaver, and you reach 40% CDR and get 50 AD and ArmorPen.
I don't think Shiv fits in there at all unless you consider BC part of that "core". Getting AS and Crit without building any AD whatsoever seems kind of useless. And since you have no AD, you're just hoping to be tanky and letting IBG procced Qs do all your damage, since your autos won't do much on their own. And if you're playing Tankplank, that's fine, but then Shiv doesn't fit in at all. Luckily, plenty of AD items work with GP if you want to go Shiv.
i feel like shiv would be good for pushing, but if i wanted to that then i'd rather go for tiamat -> hydra than shiv.
Hydra pretty good on him, imo, better than Shiv for AoE picks.
On January 08 2013 04:41 Ghost-z wrote: As far as I'm concerned it works all the same with Philo and Avarice although you have to keep up actively farming the minions. You can also spec 21 Utility for extra gold/10 and with the pick pocket mastery you don't miss out on much gold by using your Q to harass the enemy laner. GP's parrley procs the full 5 gold from pick pocket and I like it when playing support GP in normals because you can easily "out farm" the other support.
If you're going Bankplank you want to be Q last hitting minions.
On January 08 2013 09:49 Alaric wrote: ChrispySC does it since before it was used competitively.
#Swag.
But I stopped playing it since Season 3 came out - other AD mids like Khazix, Talon, Pantheon became more than viable with Black Cleaver so there wasn't much reason to play GP.
I'm gonna try it out a bit now - Statikk Shiv definitely seems like an awesome for him.
I was pretty impressed and wondering if anyone has experience with the GP mid? What should my item build, runes, and masteries be? Thanks!
I asked Chawwy on stream and he uses ad reds/quints, armor yellow and flat mr blue with one crit red i think
Do you know masteries? He went pretty well all damage (swifities, IE, Shiv, Manamune), so does he go defensive to shore up the squishiness or does he just go full kill?
Well his team was up 2k gold at the 4 minute mark. I'm not sure if GP won the game for his team or if he just got fed enough off free farm and getting in really great situations where his enemies were low enough to one shot. I remember GP's in S2 getting just as much damage with Triforce IE and then dying whenever squishies got tanky enough off levels or finally finishing a GA.
Shiv, Hydra, IE, IBG. Split push like a boss and then crit someone with Q for half their health, and get the nearby enemies for 1/4 of their health with your triple AoE procs. Not likely a good build unless you're getting fed, but fun nonetheless.
But seriously, Hydra/Shiv has such a nice build path for him and synergizes with his split push mentality. Getting Vamp/Avarice early feels really good on him, and you can build Avarice into Atma's if you need to get tankier.
I haven't played GP much this season, but it makes sense that he would excel in mid. He can farm/harass from range, he has sustain + cleanse built in to his kit, he doesn't have a glaring weakness against either APs or Assassins and he can get the farm he needs to get ahead from the safety of mid lane easier than he can anywhere else.
Personally I'm a fan of Atmas (followed by Mogs) more than I am Shiv for an Avarice build path. Ghostblade for repositioning or burning down objectives is underrated as well imo. IE is core of course.
Lack of strong roam and lack of strong waveclear seem like they could become problematic, though. What do you do when you're up against an Evelynn or TF that doesn't care at all about killing YOU - they just want to kill your teammates. How do you stop them/countershove/counterroam against them effectively?
On January 11 2013 08:45 Amarok wrote: I haven't played GP much this season, but it makes sense that he would excel in mid. He can farm/harass from range, he has sustain + cleanse built in to his kit, he doesn't have a glaring weakness against either APs or Assassins and he can get the farm he needs to get ahead from the safety of mid lane easier than he can anywhere else.
Personally I'm a fan of Atmas (followed by Mogs) more than I am Shiv for an Avarice build path. Ghostblade for repositioning or burning down objectives is underrated as well imo. IE is core of course.
ghostblade isn't really for repositioning, it's pretty much exclusively for chasing. Maybe a case could be made for escaping as well, tho by itself it's not much of an escape tool.
On January 11 2013 08:45 Amarok wrote: I haven't played GP much this season, but it makes sense that he would excel in mid. He can farm/harass from range, he has sustain + cleanse built in to his kit, he doesn't have a glaring weakness against either APs or Assassins and he can get the farm he needs to get ahead from the safety of mid lane easier than he can anywhere else.
Personally I'm a fan of Atmas (followed by Mogs) more than I am Shiv for an Avarice build path. Ghostblade for repositioning or burning down objectives is underrated as well imo. IE is core of course.
ghostblade isn't really for repositioning, it's pretty much exclusively for chasing. Maybe a case could be made for escaping as well, tho by itself it's not much of an escape tool.
I'd rather not have GB for chasing. You have a slow and sprint, and work with Phage/FM and IBG, so you have options when it comes to perma-slows. MS from Shiv/TF as well.
Besides, Alacrity Swiftness boots = only chasing power you'll ever need
Alright so I am sold on Gangplank being a very strong top laner again in s3.
I have been starting mp5 thingy, ward, 1 mana potion and 4 health potions. This lets me sit back and farm with Q while being safe early. I grab philo stone on my first back as GP needs early mp5 and he works really well with shurelias and he is a very safe laner so i do not mind getting gp5 on him.
I max W in most lanes, it is extremely mana efficient and a TON of health. Usually Q next for a stronger nuke. Against weaker laners Q max may be best but I really prefer W>Q>E.
Even going gp5 he supports ganks like a beast, he is Gangplank. Auto Q auto is 21% slow on top of whatever CC your jungler has and when you hit 6 you have a very powerful long range slow.
My build tends to evolve like this:
Philo-> Avarice, boots sometimes boots 2 next, Warmogs, Shurelias, Shiv (good for poking with his Q and for AoE farm)
I find these 3 items to be his "core" as you will. After this everything is situational. I have gone IBG, Triforce, Frozen Heart, Randuins ETC. Resists and CDR are his best stats after his core. E up time, W downtime and spam that Q.
I've recently bought gp and I instantly fell in love with his kit. I think he is really strong in the current top meta against almost every laner as you can choose to either level parrrley for stronger harass and better farm or orange for really strong sustain in hard lanes. Even in bad matchups you can stay back and q farm to avoid fights.
I've found an interesting guide Advocating rushing a bork if you dont fall behind early and even though it seems inferior to other similar items, its passive really helps making his poke significant in mid game before you are fully build.
I've been going either directly into bork or against very hard lanes (yorick) or heavy ap damage dealers I'd get a chalice first to spam w without going oom. After bork you can build Warmogs/Frozen Fist/Visage/Mallet depending on the enemies team composition. And later you get some crit item to make you even deadlier, I like to go either static shiv or Atmas if I need the armor.
For skills I usually max q first if its against an easy opponent like e.g. Volibear, Teemo, etc. , while I max w first against hard lanes like fiora, pantheon, darius or yorick. e is last obviously. Your ult is especially usefull early and mid game as it can turn around even 3v2s if you hit it really good.
And once you are fully build , you just demolish with bork, crit items and frozen fist slows. You can peel, kill squishies and have an ad and speed steroid for your whole team and an aoe slow.
I'm surprised I don't see more GP in arranged considering his ult is global. I think it's why Shen is so strong in arranged.
And I hope to one day see like a 5man commit top and bot at the same time where like karthus and soraka ult with an Ashe or Ez ult flying across the map to let the team pick up a few kills.
If you run GP with another bruiser bot and have the ad in a solo lane, you actually get a decent comp since now GP can get his important farm up a bit more than just in a solo lane
So the thing that I've recently found both incredibly interesting and incredibly frustrating about GP is that, well, he works with damn near every item in the game as long as it isn't pure AP. Now this is interesting because it means you have a million and one build paths and two games will rarely be the same. It's frustrating, though, because it also makes him a nightmare to "theorycraft" into an optimal build. You can be full tank, pure crit, pure AD, "bruiser style" (as malevolent as that term seems to be around here), or even aura support. You can use any number of mastery or rune setups with near equal efficiency in ways few other champions get to enjoy. You can focus on Q poking, sustained damage, peeling, or burst with good results all around.
Especially frustrating for me because I like to sit around and theorycraft champs when I'm not playing, and there really isn't one thing that you can centralize on GP with. Like with Riven, as long as you get BT/BC/GA in some combination at some point or another you're on the right track.
But right now I think I've centralized on the idea of a core of one or two "damage" item(s), supported by "bruisery-tank" (a completely nonsensical term) items around it. In S2, this would be easy. You get TF and then Metagolem that shit, or Fratmog's back when it was the rage. Nowadays, there are a double handful of choices for your "core", and even more for your "tankiness".
Core:
-Hydra: My personal favorite right now. Farming, AD, sustain, AoE to help your mediocre teamfights. The quick burst you can get from Auto-Q-Hydra-Auto can downright melt an opponent. However, it's not really a poke item unless you have more AD to back it up, so you rarely get those satisfying Q deathsplosions.
-TF: The old standby. I dislike it, though, favoring IBG as a personal preference. Still, it is the one-stop-shop for every stat GP wants and 2 passives that he can utilize like few other champs.
-BotRK: This item is supposedly broken but... eh. Unless they're all stacking pure health, it's not as much AD as other items, it isn't really helping you kill carries, and you already have a good slow on your passive (plus IBG or FMallet if you got one). I guess the nuke is nice, but I'm taking a pass on this one.
-Shiv/IE: IE can probably work fine on its own, but I don't think you can really run Shiv + tank items and expect to be relevant. This is the classic "wtf did he just crit me for half my health? dear God make him stop" combo, similar to TF+IE but significantly cheaper.
-BT: I suppose this works? But Hydra's active + passive helps out your AoE for pushing and farming (which GP likes a lot) for only 25 less AD and a similar pricepoint.
Tankiness:
-IBG: The best, in my opinion. Winning combination of Spellblade for your Q, CDR, and Armor. What's not to love?
-SV: One of two great MR items for him. The tankier version, I guess, if you love Oranges and are soaking your team's damage.
-Maw: The damage-y-er MR item. Nice in my book because you can grab a Hex in lane and feel better than sitting on just a Negatron. At least I do.
-FMallet/Warmog's + Atma's: I tried this old style for a bit, but I think it sucks. Atma's is too nerfed, straight health isn't as good on GP, and IBG is just as good of sticking power as FMallet if not better. Atma's is ok I guess if you go Shiv/IE for more critz.
-GA: Of course this item is good why the fuck do I have to spell it out
Other items that I couldn't really put in either category:
-Tear/Manamune/Muramananana: I'm not a fan. People fucking love this item. I mean yeah sure big mana pool, nice additional damage on autos/Q, decent amount of AD, sure I can get that. I just never felt like "Oh man if I had a Tear/Muramana my build would be off the hook!". Maybe I just suck.
-LW: I want to get this item all the time because fucking armor late in the game, but seriously I'm not going to buy it over a core damage item or risk my tankiness by getting it alongside one of them.
-Chalice: Like Tear but worst in my opinion. At least Tear is giving you some damage and a flat mana pool to spam in teamfights, Chalice is just like "Imma sit in your inventory to help you farm and then be fucking useless once mid/late game starts so you better sell me".
-Zephyr: who the fuck do you think you are get that shit out of here unless you rich as fuck
Anyway I think I personally like Hydra/IBG/(Maw or SV) as kind of my "Core to aim for". This lets you rush Hydra or get early Sheen in lanes you can bully, get Glacial in hard AD lanes, or get Hex/Nega in hard AP lanes, all while shooting for a balanced, powerful core that gives decent poke, sustained damage, and defense. I just personally prefer a balanced build like such, though I could imagine Shiv/Muramana or Shiv/IE as kind of a nice poke core if you're not playing with a teamfight team. Not to mention such a build would be much more damage than Hydra/IBG/SV. I just find myself playing more of a brawler role than a high damage role in most games due to my simpleminded playstyle. I fully expect plenty of people to work better with a squishy, crit/poke oriented build. Same reason I can't play assassins, I guess.
Mind you this is the rambling of a man who's running on about 5 hours of sleep in the past 4 days and has imbibed enough stomach/throat medicine and caffeine to cause serious medical problems in a small elephant.
I have a giant project that's going live tomorrow and took the time to babble about a champion what the fuck is wrong with me
On May 09 2013 00:45 Requizen wrote: So the thing that I've recently found both incredibly interesting and incredibly frustrating about GP is that, well, he works with damn near every item in the game as long as it isn't pure AP. Now this is interesting because it means you have a million and one build paths and two games will rarely be the same. It's frustrating, though, because it also makes him a nightmare to "theorycraft" into an optimal build. You can be full tank, pure crit, pure AD, "bruiser style" (as malevolent as that term seems to be around here), or even aura support. You can use any number of mastery or rune setups with near equal efficiency in ways few other champions get to enjoy. You can focus on Q poking, sustained damage, peeling, or burst with good results all around.
Especially frustrating for me because I like to sit around and theorycraft champs when I'm not playing, and there really isn't one thing that you can centralize on GP with. Like with Riven, as long as you get BT/BC/GA in some combination at some point or another you're on the right track.
But right now I think I've centralized on the idea of a core of one or two "damage" item(s), supported by "bruisery-tank" (a completely nonsensical term) items around it. In S2, this would be easy. You get TF and then Metagolem that shit, or Fratmog's back when it was the rage. Nowadays, there are a double handful of choices for your "core", and even more for your "tankiness".
Core:
-Hydra: My personal favorite right now. Farming, AD, sustain, AoE to help your mediocre teamfights. The quick burst you can get from Auto-Q-Hydra-Auto can downright melt an opponent. However, it's not really a poke item unless you have more AD to back it up, so you rarely get those satisfying Q deathsplosions.
-TF: The old standby. I dislike it, though, favoring IBG as a personal preference. Still, it is the one-stop-shop for every stat GP wants and 2 passives that he can utilize like few other champs.
-BotRK: This item is supposedly broken but... eh. Unless they're all stacking pure health, it's not as much AD as other items, it isn't really helping you kill carries, and you already have a good slow on your passive (plus IBG or FMallet if you got one). I guess the nuke is nice, but I'm taking a pass on this one.
-Shiv/IE: IE can probably work fine on its own, but I don't think you can really run Shiv + tank items and expect to be relevant. This is the classic "wtf did he just crit me for half my health? dear God make him stop" combo, similar to TF+IE but significantly cheaper.
-BT: I suppose this works? But Hydra's active + passive helps out your AoE for pushing and farming (which GP likes a lot) for only 25 less AD and a similar pricepoint.
Tankiness:
-IBG: The best, in my opinion. Winning combination of Spellblade for your Q, CDR, and Armor. What's not to love?
-SV: One of two great MR items for him. The tankier version, I guess, if you love Oranges and are soaking your team's damage.
-Maw: The damage-y-er MR item. Nice in my book because you can grab a Hex in lane and feel better than sitting on just a Negatron. At least I do.
-FMallet/Warmog's + Atma's: I tried this old style for a bit, but I think it sucks. Atma's is too nerfed, straight health isn't as good on GP, and IBG is just as good of sticking power as FMallet if not better. Atma's is ok I guess if you go Shiv/IE for more critz.
-GA: Of course this item is good why the fuck do I have to spell it out
Other items that I couldn't really put in either category:
-Tear/Manamune/Muramananana: I'm not a fan. People fucking love this item. I mean yeah sure big mana pool, nice additional damage on autos/Q, decent amount of AD, sure I can get that. I just never felt like "Oh man if I had a Tear/Muramana my build would be off the hook!". Maybe I just suck.
-LW: I want to get this item all the time because fucking armor late in the game, but seriously I'm not going to buy it over a core damage item or risk my tankiness by getting it alongside one of them.
-Chalice: Like Tear but worst in my opinion. At least Tear is giving you some damage and a flat mana pool to spam in teamfights, Chalice is just like "Imma sit in your inventory to help you farm and then be fucking useless once mid/late game starts so you better sell me".
-Zephyr: who the fuck do you think you are get that shit out of here unless you rich as fuck
Anyway I think I personally like Hydra/IBG/(Maw or SV) as kind of my "Core to aim for". This lets you rush Hydra or get early Sheen in lanes you can bully, get Glacial in hard AD lanes, or get Hex/Nega in hard AP lanes, all while shooting for a balanced, powerful core that gives decent poke, sustained damage, and defense. I just personally prefer a balanced build like such, though I could imagine Shiv/Muramana or Shiv/IE as kind of a nice poke core if you're not playing with a teamfight team. Not to mention such a build would be much more damage than Hydra/IBG/SV. I just find myself playing more of a brawler role than a high damage role in most games due to my simpleminded playstyle. I fully expect plenty of people to work better with a squishy, crit/poke oriented build. Same reason I can't play assassins, I guess.
Mind you this is the rambling of a man who's running on about 5 hours of sleep in the past 4 days and has imbibed enough stomach/throat medicine and caffeine to cause serious medical problems in a small elephant.
I have a giant project that's going live tomorrow and took the time to babble about a champion what the fuck is wrong with me
Hey, I play GP as my main champ (Mind that I'm a bronze 3 scrub) and personally I really like Botrk on him. HP stacking is still incredibly common especially on junglers (rushing kindle gem is pretty much a given now) and top laners, so you actually benefit alot from the active. It's biggest selling point is the slow though. You often just need those last 2 autos or that one parrley to get a kill but your oponent gets away due to you not having any gap closers. The botrk active effectively gives you just that, a point and click gapcloser or escape. You don't even need to use it on a tank, target the ADC or Midlaner if out of position and together with your passive slow they can't move an inch while you batter them down.
As for defensive items I prefer IBG aswell, it gives you perfect stats and the slow is really nice aswell. Sometimes we won games by me flash parrrleying someone with IBG and then my whole team jumped that guy for a win.
Also I think going critplank should not be used outside of normals. It worked a couple times when I was forced to go bot lane (lol) but my oponnents where just plain bad and couldn't deal with a bruiser. As Crit plank you just ask to get bursted in 2 seconds
I usually go for botrk or hydra if they got a squishy team. Next is either Spirit visage or IBG (maybe aegis?) You could get a giantsbelt item, but it kinda makes orange worse. If fed you can skip IBG for frozen mallet too.
Manamune is not worth it, as your mana pool is big enough lategame. I prefer chalice when in an ap lane, but I sell it later for Visage.
Lately I've jungled GP too, it's not as good as your FotM jungler, but atleast fun.
My goto build as jungler is Lizard elder Locket Aegis and IBG again. Works pretty well too, but you notice the damage falloff lategame.
On May 09 2013 01:28 Juicyfruit wrote: What about Spirit of the Lizard Elder?
Excellent as fuck for Jungleplank. Could work well on Pokeplank alongside Muramana, kind of jumping on the All Blue Ezreal build. But, like ABEz, Pokeplank is already not that great if you're not ahead by a fairly far margin. And GP has very few lanes where he's guaranteed to be ahead. On the other hand, it kind of makes you a pseudo-Irelia with super mixed damage. It's one of those big mid game "I have a lead and want to hold on to it and/or end right now" items, but GP is generally not going to be super ahead in the mid game.
@OmegaKnetus, I would prefer BorK more often if I was in a peeling role. It's a great item if you're fighting off the beefy bastards diving your carry, but if you're going for their squishy carries, it's much less useful. So yeah, depending on who you're spending most of your time on.
And yes, I feel like Critpank is just too cheesy. Funny, occasionally can RNG your way to a 3-0 lane, but I prefer stability over gimmicks, so I'm with you on that one.
Jungle GP is cool. You can pseudo-Shen and just farm then Ult for counterganks while making bank off of Parrrley, but he doesn't really fit in with the jungler meta. A lot of teams want the super-tanky, low item jungler like Jarvan/Zac/Hec/Naut/etc, whereas you're pretty low ganking power and need to farm up your items. Good if you can convince your top and support to play super tanky (Malph top + Leona supp is good) and then tell your team not to expect many ganks, but pulling that off in Solo Queue is a nightmare.
Honestly, I think I have the perfect GP build and I fail to see how it could be improved. Depending on how hard the lane is, you get a Philo. You either get 1 2 or 3 points into W depending on the difficulty of the lane, again. Then max Q. Rush a Trinity force, then get a shiv. After that, get an IE and a LW. 6th item can be defensive like GA or some lifesteal, maybe Hydra. I definitely think people overrate Hydra on GP. For summoner spells I like taking flash tp or flash exhaust, depending on if I have kill potential or not. (if I don't have it anyway, might as well just get TP and farm all game) The build is very expensive, so expect to farm for at least 30 minutes. People will often out-scale you in the early-mid game, but you're very strong under turret and you can just keep farming with Q. Use your ultimate like a Shen would (unless you can use it to kill your opponent in top) I've tried going tanky instead of this damage build many times, but honestly I just think it's worse. GP isn't meant to stand there poking people with a little stick, he's meant to Q squishies, poke and provide utility. If you really want to do tank GP, get a Trinity Force (you can get warden's mail if vs say Irelia before it) then finish your Randuin, then a Bulwark or a SV depending on how much magic damage they have and if somebody else is already getting an Aegis. Then get a Warmog and a FH. You don't really peel very well and you don't gain any bonuses to survivability (except oranges, but I think they're better used when playing damage) so I really think that the damage is superior, but I still go tanky when the situation needs it
In case you need an argument: You are even already getting a philo, which means you could just buy spirit stone instead, and then pay 1300 gold for a BF sword with 10% cdr and burn. That is like paying 1000 for a BF sword. How can you not want a BF sword for 1000 gold on gangplank? I think you will manage without the gold/10 when you have so much more immediate power, no?
TF/Shiv/IE/LW... I mean sure you can crit someone for 3/4 of their health with a Q, but you're essentially made of paper, even rank 5 oranges won't save you at that point. Getting Philo and sitting in lane is really just asking to get dove and killed repeatedly by any number of top lane champions, unless you cede a large amount of farm. GP has very few winning matchups if you're going squishy, farm heavy early on, so you're pretty much going to be 100% tower hugging, warding, and hoping their jungler doesn't just straight up dive you.
But yeah, if they let you just sit and farm uninterrupted for 30 minutes, you eventually can 2 shot people, but in that case you can say the same about nearly any champion with 30 minutes of freefarm and an early gp5. Late game, you get maybe 2 Qs off before someone looks at you too hard and you explode.
But then again, I have never had luck playing squishy builds on any champ. I can't even play Riven anymore and I used to play her religiously. I prefer bulk on my champs, and GP can work it.
On May 09 2013 06:58 Requizen wrote: TF/Shiv/IE/LW... I mean sure you can crit someone for 3/4 of their health with a Q, but you're essentially made of paper, even rank 5 oranges won't save you at that point. Getting Philo and sitting in lane is really just asking to get dove and killed repeatedly by any number of top lane champions, unless you cede a large amount of farm. GP has very few winning matchups if you're going squishy, farm heavy early on, so you're pretty much going to be 100% tower hugging, warding, and hoping their jungler doesn't just straight up dive you.
But yeah, if they let you just sit and farm uninterrupted for 30 minutes, you eventually can 2 shot people, but in that case you can say the same about nearly any champion with 30 minutes of freefarm and an early gp5. Late game, you get maybe 2 Qs off before someone looks at you too hard and you explode.
But then again, I have never had luck playing squishy builds on any champ. I can't even play Riven anymore and I used to play her religiously. I prefer bulk on my champs, and GP can work it.
I never have any problems doing it, you can only get dived if you stay and as such i don't really think that's a problem. Like I said, you can go tank GP with trinity>tank items if you want to, but I don't think that that's how GP was designed to play. You're basically a secondary carry that 2 hits squishies. I have never encountered any of the problems you describe. If you die late game, it's your fault. You can still get off enough Qs and then when CCs are on cooldown you can go melee if you want, etc. I can post some vids or even play GP tomorrow on stream if you really want. Farming for 30 minutes uninterrupted is what GP can do in every lane, and is one of the main reasons why I play him. If you can't do that, you're not doing something right. I've free farmed and even killed many Irelias with exhaust after she dived me, even though that's GP's worst match up pretty much. Everything can be done.
I have played quite a bit of Gangplank with the Ezreal Blue Build lately, going for
Tear->Lizard Elder->Gauntlet->CDR Boots->Muramana->Last Whisper and a defensive item, either Frozen Mallet or Bulwark or Banshees although I am not sure which of these is the best overall.
The build is super costefficient (Muramana/Lizard Elder both cost 2k and have gold values over 3k each) and enables you to just get a huge powerspike after Gauntlet and Boots, bullying pretty much everybody out of lane and just splitpushing and farming even harder.
Defensive items are a problem though, as the build has 150 armor with Gauntlet but only 70-80 Mr, so SV/Bulwark/Banshees are all something to consider. The mallet can be used against AD heavy teams with APC/ADC's that want to kite you, as the slow from your passive, Gauntlet and Mallet stack to a little over 50% slow, without Mallet it is just above 30%.
The only Problems I encountered so far were a) Diana in lane because she just bullied me so hard early that I couldn't get my core items and b) Not scaling any harder after I got full build, because it is so cheap you often get 6 items and pots around 35-40 minutes, so you don't get any stronger after that and have to try to end the game soon.
I often had the problem that I had 2-3k gold after I bought all 6 items and all pots/oracle without anything to do with it, but I guess you could swap out Lizard Elder for a Hydra or Triforce or IE, but you will to have blue Pot up at all times then to get to the 40% CDR cap.
Hey pirates, how come I don´t see anyone talking about support GP? It´s his best role IMO. I mean him and have close to 60% wins in more than 100 games, but no pickpocket thingy. He is ok in poke comp but other supports offer more there I think. I go with a tankish, all-in, sticky, baiting approach and it is much more effective.
On May 31 2013 02:40 wei2coolman wrote: Lizard Elder isn't really necessary on GP; you're better off getting black cleaver to makeup for the 10% cdr you'd be missing from spirit.
BC and SoTEL both have 10% CDR. The difference is the true damage passive and regen vs armour pen, armour shred, and health.
the difference between bruta and lizard is 20 AD, 14 HP/5, 7 Mana/5, 25% increased damage to monsters, and 6-40 true damage from attacks/abilities vs. 663 gold and 10 Armor Pen. I dunno, any time I look at this comparison, I just can't imagine building bruta over lizard without the consideration of Ghostblade or Cleaver.
I would say the regen is much better in jungle; but the early stats you get on brutalizer, 600 gold earlier on lane GP seems almost so good, if you are somehow winning out your lane. But I'm still on the whole "GP sorta blows" boat.
On May 31 2013 02:40 wei2coolman wrote: Lizard Elder isn't really necessary on GP; you're better off getting black cleaver to makeup for the 10% cdr you'd be missing from spirit.
"Necessary". What does that even mean? Necessary for what? GP makes use of every single stat to the fullest.
And why are you better off getting black cleaver? Please do explain.
The determining factors in item choice should be relevance of stats and gold efficiency right? Lizard is king in this regard.
On May 31 2013 02:40 wei2coolman wrote: Lizard Elder isn't really necessary on GP; you're better off getting black cleaver to makeup for the 10% cdr you'd be missing from spirit.
"Necessary". What does that even mean? Necessary for what? GP makes use of every single stat to the fullest.
And why are you better off getting black cleaver? Please do explain.
The determining factors in item choice should be relevance of stats and gold efficiency right? Lizard is king in this regard.
Something about spirit stone just doesn't seem to fit right in laning GP; don't sit well with me. Lizard as an item is alright; but I've always come to regard GP as a meat shield that does alright damage. So the health on Black Cleaver; later on seems to fit this bill a bit better.
On May 31 2013 02:40 wei2coolman wrote: Lizard Elder isn't really necessary on GP; you're better off getting black cleaver to makeup for the 10% cdr you'd be missing from spirit.
"Necessary". What does that even mean? Necessary for what? GP makes use of every single stat to the fullest.
And why are you better off getting black cleaver? Please do explain.
The determining factors in item choice should be relevance of stats and gold efficiency right? Lizard is king in this regard.
Something about spirit stone just doesn't seem to fit right in laning GP; don't sit well with me. Lizard as an item is alright; but I've always come to regard GP as a meat shield that does alright damage. So the health on Black Cleaver; later on seems to fit this bill a bit better.
You're paying a bf sword worth of gold for the upgrade from bruta -> BC, Lizard is 1k gold less, and the only thing you're trading off is 5 damage, 10 arp, 200 hp, and the passive shred (which gp isn't that great at stacking...) for 40 true damage per auto/skill (including ult) and a bunch of regen stats.
I dunno, it's pretty much a no-brainer when for the same cost as a cleaver you can get a SotEL and a Giant's Belt.
Ok I have few questions for GP veterans here. Does he wins any match-ups? I mean really 90% of the time i feel like im forced to focus on farm than on winning the lane or even killing my opponent. I can stomp on Teemo at least thats good ;D It looks like a lot of top champs just have more dmg in trades while I have only Q to harass, and my ult is random so I use it on map anyways. How is goldplank doing? I mean i did the math but im still unsure if its worth it (at least its fun ^^) I got 7.3 gold per 10/s from masteries and runes and i get philo asap ( i start charm) so after 1st back i got 12.3 gold /10 s (73.8 / minute ) which means that if game goes for another 30 minutes it gives me 2214 gold + the parrley money (like 200 or so ?). Thats almost one big item for masteries and few runes (golds and quints) all I see is worth. The problem is that for the first 20 minutes of the game i feel very weak and useless ( i take tp also instead of ignite dunno if its good ). Also do u guys play full dmg gp? Its at least very fun ;D However when im only on dmg items i feel kinda useless for the team because then im forced to play like ranged carry, staying in the back and instead of auto using my Q every few seconds, if i go in without warmogs i die instantly. As first item I always get Shiv first its sooo good ( and the sound is nice but SotEL seems really good for its cost.. In general I feel like while fun to play, he just seemed weak compared to most of popular champions. His Q is the only dmg ability, his W is good its like cleanse with sustain but his E seems weak and his ult does like literally nothing late game (its also random lol). He doesnt have any dashes / gap closers so he is bad in jungle and sometimes its hard to escape. ... Hoping for rework?
He wins a couple of mid matchups. Kassadin, Lux, Veigar, Morgana, for example. Top is really not that great for GP. He loses against pretty much everything there. :/
GP5 is never worth it when you can farm normally. This is not Season 2 anymore(ambient gold change), only supports buy Philo, they build it into antoher item and they don't take any cs.
GP5 is never worth it when you can farm normally. This is not Season 2 anymore(ambient gold change), only supports buy Philo, they build it into antoher item and they don't take any cs.
Y of course i would like to stay near creeps and just last hit them with my autos but it seems that with GP if u dont kill your opponent early (1-5 lvl) u will get pushed out to tower, then harrased. One of solutions would be to max W first but it feels like u have no kill potential durnign ganks etc. Thats like most of his match-ups
I dislike hybrid pen marks. Sure they scale off your ult, but gp's main source of damage is physical, so i will suggest arpen marks. I've used a setup of AS marks, ad quints, armor seals, mixed mres glyphs (scaling and flat), however any mix of arpen/ad/as is viable.
hybrid seems good to me (or at least viable), especially if you're planning to build shiv or witts for more magic damage. a lot of damage comes from GP's passive!
Hybrid pen makes a lot more sense to me. Gives almost as much armour pen, and also helps your passive, ult, wit's end and shiv. Even at level 1, your passive does more than 20% as much damage as your auto, so it's worth it.
I've been trying it a bit, but I'm not so sure about the maxing W first. It just feels like you lose trades anyways because its cooldown is so long, you don't do a lot of damage and you sacrifice gold gain.
GP5 is never worth it when you can farm normally. This is not Season 2 anymore(ambient gold change), only supports buy Philo, they build it into antoher item and they don't take any cs.
Just isn't worth it period as Gangplank. It just takes too long to become profitable and you're not going to build it into anything else.
GP5 is never worth it when you can farm normally. This is not Season 2 anymore(ambient gold change), only supports buy Philo, they build it into antoher item and they don't take any cs.
Just isn't worth it period as Gangplank. It just takes too long to become profitable and you're not going to build it into anything else.
Well, aside from Avarice, which is a nice buy if you're ahead or even. Avarice/Vamp is a really solid first buy if you're not horribly screwed in lane.
On July 22 2013 19:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I've been running that Korean 1/22/8 Shiv/Wits Tank GP and it's pretty much the most fun thing I've ever played
Only problem I ran into was one game where my team refused to finish despite me crushing and us having a sizable advantage. I felt completely worthless late game with only shiv and wits for damage, I guess shoulda got something like botrk as a 6th item instead of another tank item.
GP5 is never worth it when you can farm normally. This is not Season 2 anymore(ambient gold change), only supports buy Philo, they build it into antoher item and they don't take any cs.
Just isn't worth it period as Gangplank. It just takes too long to become profitable and you're not going to build it into anything else.
Well, aside from Avarice, which is a nice buy if you're ahead or even. Avarice/Vamp is a really solid first buy if you're not horribly screwed in lane.
Avarice is part of shiv though, so it actually makes sense.
On July 22 2013 19:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I've been running that Korean 1/22/8 Shiv/Wits Tank GP and it's pretty much the most fun thing I've ever played
Only problem I ran into was one game where my team refused to finish despite me crushing and us having a sizable advantage. I felt completely worthless late game with only shiv and wits for damage, I guess shoulda got something like botrk as a 6th item instead of another tank item.
Did you have Mallet? That's the go-to for me. I mean I don't think you should change a build you're crushing with just because you can't 1v5 with it
On July 22 2013 19:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I've been running that Korean 1/22/8 Shiv/Wits Tank GP and it's pretty much the most fun thing I've ever played
On July 22 2013 19:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I've been running that Korean 1/22/8 Shiv/Wits Tank GP and it's pretty much the most fun thing I've ever played
Yeah the point of it is to just sit there and bully them with GP's early strength (auto-q-auto with ignite is enough to force a lot of champs out of lane at level 1 if they don't realize you hit that hard) and you have the sustain to survive anything as long as you understand how creep aggro and disengages work. If you're getting outtraded then don't trade and just wait for the lane to shove, picking creeps off with q and autos when you can. Last hit under tower and get to your power spikes (shiv/wits/giants belt is your core in some order, but always shiv first unless you're getting completely dumped on in which case gbelt and a later shiv is better than feeding) and basically play like a wuss unless they make a mistake and trade with you when you can just all in them with e ignite auto q auto and w for fruit baits if they don't realize you've maxed it. You don't want to use w on cooldown, it's basically your reset button and if you don't have it up then you should NOT be anywhere near them. Think of it as a summoner spell with a low cooldown.
Anyway once you get your Shiv you can start proc harassing when you last hit with q or just straight up trading with them because that lightning is actually really strong and people definitely underestimate your passive stacks. Once you have wits end you'll be doing passive + shiv + wits + ult as magic damage while wits end steals MR from them. Most people won't itemize correctly against this and will just end up getting owned when they think they should be able to duel you because you have no "damage" items. Then you just get insanely tanky and throw in Frozen Mallet when you're ahead enough to do so without sacrificing survivability. This build is insanely fun and if you're good with ults you can often end up grabbing kills and assists in other lanes while still rice farming the whole time. Yaaaaaaay Gangplank.
For the build Zerg is referring to, the suggested skill order is Q E W for the first 3 levels, then R > W > E > Q. Not sure if this is how Zerg skills, but the koreans who were first using the build were playing like this. Basically, maxing E second allows you to focus on using auto attacks to actually fight people. Works pretty well. You can max Q second if you really need the ranged damage in your lane for some reason.
This GP build is really strong Laning is pretty good and you can go top or mid
Even if you are at a disadvantage, just pick farm safely and you'll be able to out duel once you have shiv as long as you didn't feed
I think it works great if you have some sort of hyper carry on your team as well, like vayne, kogmaw, trist, just in case late game and to use your Raise Morale, which is really underestimated. But even late, GP still does a lot of damage. I was really surprised how much I did with just building Shiv+wits and tank items
He's great at split pushing, since he can pretty much out duel anyone, and good at escaping with oranges and morale and passive+ult
And you can abuse your ult to assist lanes
Best Quote from the guide: "Remember that you are Zeus and that everyone should kiss your ass while you zap them with your god powers and oranges."
Yeah so I just used that korean plank build against fiora and it worked pretty well (keep in mind im in gold so fiora just all-ins gp at lvl1 without ignite lol [that bush trap when their jungler start blue too good]). I used every ult on map bottom/mid/jungle w/e and I felt USEFULL as a bruiser (kinda).
just for the record with the shiv/witts build I usually end up with literally 50% physical 50% magic damage to champs at the end of the game.
Question: If you're vs AP tops should you build witts before shiv?
I really like keeping parrlay at lvl 1 but having statik shiv procs every time I parrlay. It feels like I can just get a good trade off, eat oj, then Q them a bunch and effectively keep them low. Only problem is you need some extra wards as you push a lot.
I wouldn't pick Wit's as GP's MR item. Merc's are probably going to be part of your build already, SV is a good choice, Bulwark is nice for your team, and Maw is better for farming/fighting/surviving. The new Spellbreaker item might be nice on him, will be better than Wit's by far,
Well, for what? Likely you're not going to stack it up before you ult, so it won't affect that. Your passive isn't that huge later on, and Shiv/Wit's procs are really reliant on the item. I still say you're better just getting AD/Crit rather than a pseudo on-hit style.
On July 24 2013 04:03 Complete wrote: just for the record with the shiv/witts build I usually end up with literally 50% physical 50% magic damage to champs at the end of the game.
Question: If you're vs AP tops should you build witts before shiv?
I really like keeping parrlay at lvl 1 but having statik shiv procs every time I parrlay. It feels like I can just get a good trade off, eat oj, then Q them a bunch and effectively keep them low. Only problem is you need some extra wards as you push a lot.
yes, you should go wits before shiv against ap tops (the guide also recommends this).
On July 24 2013 06:12 Requizen wrote: Well, for what? Likely you're not going to stack it up before you ult, so it won't affect that. Your passive isn't that huge later on, and Shiv/Wit's procs are really reliant on the item. I still say you're better just getting AD/Crit rather than a pseudo on-hit style.
You get off 3 stacks in like half a second, so of course it'll effect your ult. We're talking about getting it as your first item, so it's not like it's late game; your passive does plenty of damage. No idea what you mean by their procs being really reliant on the item. Also, it's not magic pen, it's MR steal. This makes it very effective against AP champions.
On July 24 2013 04:05 Requizen wrote: I wouldn't pick Wit's as GP's MR item. Merc's are probably going to be part of your build already, SV is a good choice, Bulwark is nice for your team, and Maw is better for farming/fighting/surviving. The new Spellbreaker item might be nice on him, will be better than Wit's by far,
Wit's End STEALS MR and you're playing tankplank anyway with this build after shiv/wits (which is a defensive item anyway...) and you have max w + merc + 22 defense with 3 in tenacious so you absolutely should be able to get stacks with auto q auto. It's extremely hard to itemize against a 50/50 split of magic and physical damage.
IMO try it out because Wit's End is absolutely core in this build. It increases the speed with which you stack your passive and makes your passive do more damage in addition to making you tankier, not to mention that with shiv and wits you'll be sparking lightning procs off really quickly in fights, which also do more damage because of the MR steal.
Req, you do know they changed Wit's End a few patches ago, right?
On July 24 2013 04:05 Requizen wrote: I wouldn't pick Wit's as GP's MR item. Merc's are probably going to be part of your build already, SV is a good choice, Bulwark is nice for your team, and Maw is better for farming/fighting/surviving. The new Spellbreaker item might be nice on him, will be better than Wit's by far,
Wit's End STEALS MR and you're playing tankplank anyway with this build after shiv/wits (which is a defensive item anyway...) and you have max w + merc + 22 defense with 3 in tenacious so you absolutely should be able to get stacks with auto q auto. It's extremely hard to itemize against a 50/50 split of magic and physical damage.
IMO try it out because Wit's End is absolutely core in this build. It increases the speed with which you stack your passive and makes your passive do more damage in addition to making you tankier, not to mention that with shiv and wits you'll be sparking lightning procs off really quickly in fights, which also do more damage because of the MR steal.
Req, you do know they changed Wit's End a few patches ago, right?
I didn't really pay attention to it, interesting for sure.
So I didn't look at the overall build, is this really a Shiv -> Tankplank build that everyone is raving about? I never thought Tankplank was anything special. Certainly not strong enough to straight carry a game, generally not strong enough to even man up and win lane. Then again, it could have been my build/choices that gave me that feeling. I'll check it out, thanks.
I don't know how you can not get crushed in lane if you buy shiv first. How is a zeal or an avarice blade going to help you when the opposite laner will force trades ? Gp is already kinda weak in lane and relies a lot on maxing W to survive so ... I really don't know how you can survive in lane with that build. New wits seems interesting though but you will build it only if your opponent is ap.
On July 25 2013 00:09 RouaF wrote: I don't know how you can not get crushed in lane if you buy shiv first. How is a zeal or an avarice blade going to help you when the opposite laner will force trades ? Gp is already kinda weak in lane and relies a lot on maxing W to survive so ... I really don't know how you can survive in lane with that build. New wits seems interesting though but you will build it only if your opponent is ap.
GP has the highest base HP at lvl1 and with Q and passive stacks u can win all in (if u have ignite) against almost everyone... at lvl 1. At lvls 2-5 u can trade with some champs, and if u cant then u should just use Q for farming and heal with maxing W. After lvl 6 u will probably lose to anyone so I focus on getting farm at tower. There comes dangerous timing when u dont have shiv and ur opponent can kill u, so u have to hug the tower and farm. After u got the shiv everything change. (It works for me but im in gold so keep that in mind).
Yeah no offence but I'd really like some feedback from someone who pulled this shit at diamond level. I play quite a lot of gp and even on my plat smurf I had a really hard time with this build. Maybe I just did it wrong but I've had much more success with a tears/cdr build.
So, been playing some games with Gangplank, been doing pretty well, but it still feels like I'm weaker than I should be. Then I realise that my rune page didn't save properly, and I've been using no runes for the past few games. Whoops. Still went 4-0-12 in one of them.
A fed gp can only be shut down by a well coordinated team with chains off cc. When you play in pub: 1. Easy farming - check. 2. No coordinated team - check.
I dunno how that build works but it sure does. The earlygame till you get your first item is extremely fragile though and you have to pretty much play like a complete pussy and give up cs. but after that its awesome.
EDIT: early on if someone tries to all in you just orange their CC then activate E, run behind your creep line so he takes a bunch of dmg from creeps while you dont.
On July 26 2013 04:22 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: I dunno how that build works but it sure does. The earlygame till you get your first item is extremely fragile though and you have to pretty much play like a complete pussy and give up cs. but after that its awesome.
EDIT: early on if someone tries to all in you just orange their CC then activate E, run behind your creep line so he takes a bunch of dmg from creeps while you dont.
auto-q-auto actually makes you totally own people at level 1 if they can't full combo you, just don't do an extended engage. If I'm top side I usually wait in the lane bush and almost get FB when they pass and I ignite auto q auto auto and blow their flash
can somebody explain what makes shiv so strong item only on him ? i dont get what is he getting from it compared to lets say irelia who is superior to gp at every point of the game without it
On July 26 2013 08:08 kongoline wrote: can somebody explain what makes shiv so strong item only on him ? i dont get what is he getting from it compared to lets say irelia who is superior to gp at every point of the game without it
The korean guide's whole point is to abuse his passive basically, which is why you get a bunch of AS to apply the passive a bunch. Or at least this is what I gathered from the guide.
Not to mention the movespeed and proc on GP's Q.
edit: I have never actually tried this. though last night I bought GP so its awnnnn
I've been doing this on my smurf and I haven't lost a lane in a ranked game yet. Last game I went like 12-0-x and didn't even die.
It's stupidly strong because nobody knows his passive applies a dot and a slow and by the time they realize they're losing an extended trade it's too late and you just ignite r e q/auto them to death.
On July 26 2013 08:08 kongoline wrote: can somebody explain what makes shiv so strong item only on him ? i dont get what is he getting from it compared to lets say irelia who is superior to gp at every point of the game without it
The korean guide's whole point is to abuse his passive basically, which is why you get a bunch of AS to apply the passive a bunch. Or at least this is what I gathered from the guide.
Not to mention the movespeed and proc on GP's Q.
edit: I have never actually tried this. though last night I bought GP so its awnnnn
My understanding of his point was that Irelia's W passive is stronger than GP's passive in terms of damage at all points in the game.
That said zooming around proccing Shiv on every pistol shot (the timing lines up about right with enough MS) and critting on every other one feels really fun regardless of how good it is.
At level 1, GP's passive does 12 damage. Irelia's W maxed heals for 13. When activated it'll obviously be more powerful because of the true damage, but the passive is significantly more powerful for GP. Can't really compare an active ability vs a passive. Even then, maxed W's heal/damage combines for 101, whereas GP's passive does 63 damage at level 18. Of course, it'll end up being a greater difference because it's true damage/heal vs magic damage over time, but for a passive it's pretty damn powerful, especially when combined with Wit's End.
Also it's a 3 second dot which stacks 3 times and you can immediately apply it with auto q auto if you are in auto range because it slows too. It's just a way to play gankplank that's not easy to itemize against like you can if he goes pure damage (dshield + ninja tabi). This build makes your dueling power really strong because you steal their MR while doing half magic damage (shiv proc + wits proc + passive stacks) and can fight long sustained fights with w and your passive or just poke/farm and never die because w is maxed, which is fine because you're gangplank and you get to late game before everyone else does anyway, and then you're a huge pain in fights because you just run around slowing everyone/stealing MR/firing off procs and ults and randuins and e.
I also don't think comparing Irelia's W to anything Gangplank has serves any purpose because you use them differently.
You'll never be able to kill a Singed unless he's terrible, and he can force you back to your tower when he ults. Probably the best you can really hope for is to stay close in CS.
On July 26 2013 13:43 Complete wrote: renekton is the only completely unwinnable one I've run in to.
Have you happened to play against a Singed? I'm curious if it works against him...
Felt pretty skill matchuppy the one time I played it, but I could be wrong. You have an early advantage so it would probably help a lot to get a pre-6 kill.
I saw a GP go avarice -> hydra and just get full parley gold off of every wave vs. a proxy singed once. It was pretty hilarious, dude had just shy of 20k gold in a 35 minute game and obliterated teamfights.
On July 28 2013 04:23 Mogwai wrote: I saw a GP go avarice -> hydra and just get full parley gold off of every wave vs. a proxy singed once. It was pretty hilarious, dude had just shy of 20k gold in a 35 minute game and obliterated teamfights.
Ive been building avarice blade first to help with early game, but I wouldnt think the Hydra passive would proc on Q due to it being ranged? If it does my mind has just been blown
Ive been building avarice blade first to help with early game, but I wouldnt think the Hydra passive would proc on Q due to it being ranged? If it does my mind has just been blown
As I understand it GP's parrrley is coded to be a melee attack. This can also be applied for other situations. You get the extra slow on frozen mallet and extra gold from pickpocket in the utility tree.
Ive been building avarice blade first to help with early game, but I wouldnt think the Hydra passive would proc on Q due to it being ranged? If it does my mind has just been blown
As I understand it GP's parrrley is coded to be a melee attack. This can also be applied for other situations. You get the extra slow on frozen mallet and extra gold from pickpocket in the utility tree.
On July 26 2013 13:43 Complete wrote: renekton is the only completely unwinnable one I've run in to.
unwinnable???
Just played against renekton.
I destroyed him early because he fought me lvl 1. I went boots for some reason and he had doran blade but I got FB by like 10 hp anyway thx to passive.
Later he was annoying, but I thought it was because he was building pure damage, and I screwed up and gave him a kill + they got some objectives. That said he was worthless in teamfights because he would die instantly. I couldn't kill him 1v1 after 6 but he couldn't really tower dive me either because if he dashes in and stuns me, I would just W->E-> and maybe auto->Q->auto and run around and Q him. So I just farmed under tower, throwing out ultis around the map and got farmed and just ended up more useful thx to E and Ulti and being gangplank.
gp beats everybody at level 1, I see no way to play the lane in any way but passive farming past the first few levels. He just does way more damage to you without letting you trade back at all and he sustains too well with empowered Q.
That being said, yes, passive farming, waiting for jungler ganks, ulting other places around the map, and maxing E to be useful in team fights is the way to go against him.
Yeah it definitely became annoying but not unwinnable and I doubt he could kill me 1v1 w/o jungler help. Mana was the only issue but once I realized I couldn't kill him and he was outtrading me, I was conservative with my Qs and Ws. I think if I had some form of mana regen (I rushed shiv...) so I could spam oranges + farm with Qs better it woulda been fine.
And I feel like GP outscales renekton a little bit so turning it into a slightly losing rice lane is to your advantage.
Also I feel like GP is decent vs singed simply because GP with a frozen mallet + his team speed boost should be pretty solid peel vs late game singed, esp if team is low on slows. Yeah laning past 6 might suck but I think GP would not care about Singed proxying waves because (as mentioned before) of Hydra Qs.
I play gp a lot top, and if i have to pick my champ before i know what I'm against I almost always pick gp. I build the same items but the order is different every game, skill order is different also.
I always start double gp5 - philo, and avarice. After that is where it changes. The items I get are shiv, spirit visage, iceborne guantlet, infinity edge, lw, boots. My first main item is almost always defensive (gauntlet against ad, visage against ap). Then I finish shiv or get the iedge. Then the other defensive item, and finish the offensive build.
I got my masteries from tl, its like 0-23-7. adc runes.
Skill order is q-w. Then I USUALLY alternate q and w, and get a point of e if i feel i need it. Against tougher lanes max w, against farm lanes max q. I play very passive early game, and just farm, and throw out my ult to try to get assists. I usually take tp also.
I got addicted to GP, I really enjoy playing with him. I'll probably never pick him in ranked, because as mush as I enjoy him, I'm not a good top laner, and especially not platinum quality, but nonetheless I'd like to be good with him. I tried tankplank, damageplank, and sometimes I jungled with him, but I still don't know for sure how should I play him, and what should I buy on him. I like tankplank's utility (randuin, iceborn, frozen heart, aegis, thornmail, etc), I think he does a good job peeling for his ADC (no, I won't use the term Marksem until I won't see it in official streams:D), and can zone the enemy carries as well. He doesn't deal much upfront the damage, but againts the squishies he's sustained damage (thanks to the cdr-s) is not bad, and if you buy a BotRK, then you duel tanks as well. Later I've been experimenting with a more damage oriantated build, with a Doran's start (either blade or shield, it depends which side I'm on and who am I againts), then eventually my build looks like this: IE, statikk, ninja/mercury, randuin, last whisper, trinity. It kills people, so i'm satisfied, but I'm pretty sure there are some better buys out there.
When I first heard that I shouldn't max Q I was like "lol", then I started to max W, and now I always do that. Sure, if I'm 3-0 at 4 minutes maxing Q is better, but that usually doesn't happen. I'd like to play some more GP jungle as well, but then again, I'm not really sure what should I do. Try to gank with my amazing passive slow (I won't have red all the time), or just farm it up, and hope my team prevails in 4v5? Never tried midplank, but I gue's he always goes for pure damage. I'm not keen on trying it, but man, every time I play GP I wish for a blue buff, and there at least I'd get it.
On July 31 2013 04:32 Klonopin wrote: I play gp a lot top, and if i have to pick my champ before i know what I'm against I almost always pick gp. I build the same items but the order is different every game, skill order is different also.
I always start double gp5 - philo, and avarice. After that is where it changes. The items I get are shiv, spirit visage, iceborne guantlet, infinity edge, lw, boots. My first main item is almost always defensive (gauntlet against ad, visage against ap). Then I finish shiv or get the iedge. Then the other defensive item, and finish the offensive build.
I got my masteries from tl, its like 0-23-7. adc runes.
Skill order is q-w. Then I USUALLY alternate q and w, and get a point of e if i feel i need it. Against tougher lanes max w, against farm lanes max q. I play very passive early game, and just farm, and throw out my ult to try to get assists. I usually take tp also.
You are either a very good player, or play againts very bad ones, because I everytime I read about bankplank I just can't imagine how the hell does he not roflstomped in lane. You spend 1500 gold on nothing (philo regen is a joke, and 8% crit chance... unless you have crit runes as well, it's nothing, but even then it's a gamble) for a moderate laner at best, and you expect to not get owned. Yes, lvl 1 GP, and even 2 (if you take E at 2) is op as fuck, but then he has a hard time againts most of the other laners. I'd like to see a GP vs Zed, where GP comes back to lane with a philo and an avarice blade - it's like Ezreals who buy tear first.
Also, when i'm lvl 3, I have all my abilities, and I think it's pretty important. A second point in either Q, W or E is pretty meh compared to getting your third skill, and E is a great skill anyway, in case your opponent wants to fight you. That 7 seconds at lvl 2 or 3 is retarded, I can't think of many champions that are cool with fighting againts plus 12 attack damage, and not to mention GP's passive.
On July 31 2013 04:32 Klonopin wrote: I play gp a lot top, and if i have to pick my champ before i know what I'm against I almost always pick gp. I build the same items but the order is different every game, skill order is different also.
I always start double gp5 - philo, and avarice. After that is where it changes. The items I get are shiv, spirit visage, iceborne guantlet, infinity edge, lw, boots. My first main item is almost always defensive (gauntlet against ad, visage against ap). Then I finish shiv or get the iedge. Then the other defensive item, and finish the offensive build.
I got my masteries from tl, its like 0-23-7. adc runes.
Skill order is q-w. Then I USUALLY alternate q and w, and get a point of e if i feel i need it. Against tougher lanes max w, against farm lanes max q. I play very passive early game, and just farm, and throw out my ult to try to get assists. I usually take tp also.
You are either a very good player, or play againts very bad ones, because I everytime I read about bankplank I just can't imagine how the hell does he not roflstomped in lane. You spend 1500 gold on nothing (philo regen is a joke, and 8% crit chance... unless you have crit runes as well, it's nothing, but even then it's a gamble) for a moderate laner at best, and you expect to not get owned. Yes, lvl 1 GP, and even 2 (if you take E at 2) is op as fuck, but then he has a hard time againts most of the other laners. I'd like to see a GP vs Zed, where GP comes back to lane with a philo and an avarice blade - it's like Ezreals who buy tear first.
Also, when i'm lvl 3, I have all my abilities, and I think it's pretty important. A second point in either Q, W or E is pretty meh compared to getting your third skill, and E is a great skill anyway, in case your opponent wants to fight you. That 7 seconds at lvl 2 or 3 is retarded, I can't think of many champions that are cool with fighting againts plus 12 attack damage, and not to mention GP's passive.
I rarely (ie.never) die in lane 1v1, and very rarely 1v2 if I get ganked. I've personally played against zed, rumble, and akali and they just can't kill you with w max and tank masteries, and then rushing the appropriate defensive item.
Philo regen also is not a joke. It lets you q minions almost forever. And avarice builds into the core item shiv. If you are going to buy a shiv anyway you might as well get the avarice blade asap to get as much extra gold from it as possible.
I also don't understand why you say he has a hard time in lane? I specifically pick gp when I am against a hard top laner because I know I won't die and I scale better then they do. I've had people beat their heads against me all lane and they can't stop you from farming. If they want to fight just w and walk away. Chug a potion, and keep q'ing minions.
You have to understand my mindset though, I am taking tank and utility masteries and tp. There is no way I can kill them even if I wanted to early game. Each item you complete though gives a definite power spike. You can start fighting as soon as you complete IBG or SV and winning trades. And that early game passivity pays off with an absolutely monstrous mid and late game.
EDIT: All right, I tried it, and it's just as BS as I always thought it is. No. Decent. Player. Watch. You. Do. This. Yes, if they pick Cho, or Nasus they can't really do much, but the 90% of the top laner champs have to rape your ass with it. If someone manages to not kill you at least three times with champs like Zed, Renekton, Jax, Rumble, etc. then they are bad. You can get away with one gp/10, but I state again: investing 1500 gold into nothing againts such brutal champions is wagering your game on the assumption that they are bad. 1500 gold is a brutalizer and more. 1500 gold is a Haunting guise and more. It's a cutlass and more. It's hp, penetration, damage, sustain, everything - and more. On the other hand, you get a beastly 7 health regen/5, and 8% critical chance, so in average, your every 11th attack will do double damage - which is not too scary, especially since you don't have any offensive items, nor armor penetration from the masteries.
Every decent top laner (again, not talking about cho's and the likes) would either kill you or zone you, and if they push the lane, every decent jungler would just dive you over and over again. I might give it a shot vs vlad, because when he starts to get dangerous, you can already afford some magic resist.
I just played against panth. started philo, then cloth armor, then avarice, then chain vest, then ninja tabi, glacial shroud, ibg. final items at the end (they surrendered): philo, ninja tabi, ibg, iedge, shiv, negatron.
I started 0-1 due to a zac lane gank. but from then on was pretty smooth sailing.
I literally DO NOT fight them in the early game. Just w and drink a pot and walk away. I went q-w, and then max w with extra points in q, no points in e until i had to. I also never go past the midpoint in the lane, at least until I have my first item. Just push the wave into your opponents turret with ult and go back if the wave is pushing unfavorably.
It worked exactly as I said it does. As soon as my ibg was done I could out-trade him. He stopped trying to fight me at that point. In the first team fight I had ibg and a bf sword. The game was relatively close at that point. By the surrender we were up 15-20 kills. I was 1-1-2 by the time I went to the first team fight. I ended the game 9-3-15.
Its not particularly fun playing like a bitch for the first 20 min. But when it starts coming together you can carry games. I'm 11-4 using this build, 6.2 kda.
On July 31 2013 05:59 Requizen wrote: Y'know, its been a while since I played GP, maybe I'll try out that Zeus build tonight.
Once you get statik its so fun, well as long as you enjoy being the most annoying lane opponent ever.
He plays Teemo, Garen and old Master Yi.
These are all true
You'll fit right in. Lol the baits are so good, sit around at low hp, bait em in heal, ult aa q aa GG SON.
Also I am very confused by this guys GP build. Why would you play passive for the first 20 minutes? GP is very strong 1v1 early. You can dominate people at level 1, if you can push someone out of lane you can roam for ganks, or straight up push the tower and make them lose waves. Or you straight up kill your opponent. I can't figure out why you would play passive.
Actually I had a two lanes vs a malph and I found him hard to kill early. Dat passive. Still you can freefarm and be super annoying.
k i tried korean build and had to play vs rumble it was most unpleasant lane ever, i was constantly pushed to the tower couldnt shove back and he could rape me everytime we 1v1, dont think i can enjoy playing relatively weak champion, passively farm under turret for 20minutes just to have average results later(why not play nasus then?), not my style of play
You buy a philosopher's stone so that you can sit around your turret and farm for 20 minutes and use your ult to farm when the creeps aren't near it? This makes zero sense. First of all, you're making next to nothing from philosopher's stone, especially since you're not building it into anything else and therefore already have a 360 gold deficit.
Secondly, since you're using your ult to farm, you can't use it to help other lanes. One of the big strengths of early game Gangplank is that he can help snowball bot lane with his ult. Thirdly, not only are you allowing your opponent to just free farm, but allowing him to dictate the lane. He can either repeatedly shove in the creeps and slowly take down your tower, or freeze the lane and prevent you from farming.
A much easier solution is to just use a flask start and you should be fine for mana.
So I've been having some success with GP at silver 1/gold 5 level. People completely underestimate GP's early damage, probably because no one plays him, which leads to a lot of first bloods or extremely favorable early exchanges. If you are purple side you can cheese them in the river bush and occasionally catch them coming from leashing blue, and aa + q + aa will give you a kill or win you lane. The only trouble I run into is if I get first blood at lvl 1 or 2, then shove the lane and recall with 900-1000 gold, I am not sure what to buy. I've been going with avarice/pots/ward since it builds into shiv and lets you get the extra gold income for a few extra mins, but I feel like that doesn't really help you snowball your early advantage from the kill. Suggestions?
Extra dorans blade helps keep your lane advantage if you'd like I'm not too sold on early avarice, might as well work on parts of zeal if you can't afford it yet Ninja tabi is pretty good top too if you are against ad top.
Main issue w/ GP is the fact that he's gated by mana. MP5 + Mana back on kill is basically perfect for Qs.
I liked it against singed because I needed a lot of sustain to stay in lane to prevent tower going down. Used to go flask and pots but those run out and I never ever want to go back against singed because he never goes back. You can stay in lane longer than a proxy singed which is funny.
I just don't know if it's strictly worse than a charm start. Feel like the HP and better mana regen is worth it. I dunno how much the AP helps but I typically go W max anyway (Except against proxy singed)
You're only realistic option would philo with a faerie charm right? Which isn't great unless you're going for the bankplank theme. You can just sell the charm for minimal loss but the same can be said for the ring, just a little more of an investment. I'm liking it the more I think about it in terms of helping gp stay in lane.
What are the other alternative starts? cloth+pots, flask+pots, boots+pots? against an ap or mixed opponent hp sounds like a good thing.
I like DRing better than all of these because it's basically an inverse GP5... you don't have to buy as many pots, you have basically the same regen, and some survivability to boot.
With someone like GP I really like to stay in lane as long as humanly possible, and typically I'm allowed to do so because GP is a very safe laner that is hard to kill but who also has limited kill potential besides lvl-1 fuckups.
This means that once you burn through your pots you're done, which is where DRing is clearly superior.
I really don't like DBlade starts and feel iffy about DSheild starts.
I was actually inspired by Korean Nidalees who started chalice then would go full bruiser (or at least they used to). I don't like going full chalice on GP because he is not as mana dependent as Nidalee. The MR might be nice but I feel like w/ GP you really need to get something going by the midgame because he is outscaled by several top laners, and DRing seems to be just enough to satisfy his mana/survivability needs. You can get merc treads or start building for your spirit visage if you really want the MR, allowing you to actually start building for the mid/late game.
One Dolan's Ring is an interesting alternative to Flask. It only costs 55 more and you get stats from it. I'd probably take it in lanes where I would be farming a lot, like Shen or Malphite.
For Dring you gotta use creeps per second. Using this website, I estimate the max CS is about 12 creeps / min, but we'll take 9 creeps / min and say we miss some creeps. 9 creeps / min = 0.75 creeps / 5 sec
So DRing will produce as much mana as flask after 150 seconds or 2.5 minutes.
This assumes that A) You don't go back and B) Flask's mana regen is not wasted (it's probably not cause it's GP).
Looking at HP Doran Ring gives 60 hp whereas Flask gives you 360 hp over 36 seconds.
Finally, the only edge that DRing gives you is the AP.
In conclusion: Flask is slightly better and a little cheaper. Should probably get flask unless you're planning on staying in lane and never going back. Maybe vs, as 5hit says, farming lanes like singed, shen, or malphite DRing could outperform Flask.
Sorry I called you a troll, after doing some very rough math it's not *that* bad, I just still prefer flask
Also, your math is way off. Assuming 9 creeps a minute that's 3+3=6mp5. That's 72 mana a minute. That gets you 180 mana in 2.5 minutes. I still prefer flask because it's cheaper, I can start with a ward, and my general play style/experience with GP doesn't really require extra mana past what a flask gives. Also, 360 health from the flask is huge (assuming its not a 100->0 allin), plus there will be wasted mana with the mana regen if you're at full mana. I can see it if you plan to stay in lane for a long time and want to spam oranges for health, though.
Oops I'm tired lol. For some reason I thought there were 25 seconds in a minute.
And it's K after enough soloQ you develop thick skin
Yeah flask looks like it mostly outperforms DRing. The extra HP from oranges does not make it to 360 health until you use it 15 times.... and flask gets you that HP waaay faster.
But because it outperforms flask in 2.5 minutes, I would think DRing is superior in the aforementioned farm lanes. I do find mana to be the main problem I encounter with GP esp. if I'm in lane long enough.
On July 31 2013 19:57 kongoline wrote: k i tried korean build and had to play vs rumble it was most unpleasant lane ever, i was constantly pushed to the tower couldnt shove back and he could rape me everytime we 1v1, dont think i can enjoy playing relatively weak champion, passively farm under turret for 20minutes just to have average results later(why not play nasus then?), not my style of play
Did you rush wit's and max w? I have found rumble to be pretty annoying in the past as well, but the last time I went against one using the k build it went smoothly. I would only trade at level 1/2 and after wits. You should always be able to farm well against him til you reach that point.
After wits I remember trading with him and just killing him. If you don't want to commit don't because his sustain doesn't match yours. Look for trades anytime you have orange and similar hp. Note that I do use barrier as my summoner skill despite recommendations to use ignite. I find it to work really well with GP for the baits.
So I would try going wits->giants->statik as recommeneded. If you run into trouble go wits->SV. Really Ahead wits->statik.
Tried d ring start vs shen, it was ok, but I think d shield would have been better. The mana regen was noticable but I wound up having to spend extra mana on Ws to negate his constant q harass, which would have probably been taken care of by the passive regen on d shield.
I just had one of the most fun games ever. I was GP and my opponent is Quinn so I go defensive masteries get cloth and sit in river bush waiting for her to show up from blue. OF COURSE she went retard way cause its GOLD 1. If i had ignite i would have killed her right there at lvl1 (went for tp). I was kinda scared of her auto harass however once I got dorans shield after first buy it was K. Got ninja tabi in between shiv components so she couldnt do much. After getting shiv u just shoot her all the time and shes forced to b or she will die. Also W will remove blind so it was kinda nice. Used all my ults on map never in lane or to farm, and it pays off. The bottom lane got advantage - I got two assists. After I get Sunfire Quinn just had to use her ult to run away. When laning phase was over I was running all around the map shooting people like a jackass, with shiv and Iceborn g.
I ended the game with 9/1/smth record, and kinda didnt knew what to buy next... GP has so much possibilities in itemization. Final build was Tabi,Shiv,IG,Sunfire, doran s. but they surrender and I wasnt decided on next item.
The thing I like (in theory) about DRing over Flask is the HP. Flask provides more regen, but GP has plenty of that in his kit anyway if he has mana. The HP (and the AP) make you more resilient against all-ins which is the only way of pushing out a GP with mana.
The thing I don't like about it is a no ward start. Do the DRing advocates here generally start with pots or a ward?
I love the Zeus build. I try to stay clear of top lane, but when I do get stuck with it GP feels almost like a failsafe. Nearly impossible to get murdered in lane with a really solid midgame power spike.
Go ward when: it's a lane where I have an advantage and I'm going to try to zone the guy / their jungler is a scary ganker and our jungler has less presence
Go pots when: If it's a lane where I'm going to be zoned / the opponent is probably going to push and I'm going to be forced to farm under tower.
You don't necessarily need the regen from the pots thanks to max-W.
So far the only complaint I have about the Zeusplank build is raging from people who think you're trolling.
Had a game last night where I got ganked early and fell behind a Wukong. No worries, max W and safely farm. Died once but got into midgame with my turret intact and a 15 cs deficit (but 1 kill and assist). Start to gain back lane presence once shiv and wits get built. I start pushing the lane, roam around and get a few kills in their jungle, throw ultis around the map. All of a sudden I'm 4-1-6 with a 30 CS lead over Wukong.
Then my team starts getting caught, baiting in more members and giving up objectives. Baron and an inhib go down and suddenly I get asked if I'm trolling. "WTF is that build?" All chat starts hearing about "this troll gp." Team chat starts hearing "You're not a diamond korean bro!"
In the end we get a teamfight right. I bait their initiation onto me and charge into the backlines, killing their AP carry and zoning their jungler and AD carry singlehandedly. I die, but my team cleans up the fight and rushes the nexus.
The 15-9-6 Jayce (who started the rot by getting caught twice) picked up a triple kill, and proudly proclaims how he "carried" this troll 8-4-14 GP.
Ran koreaplank mid against a kha6 (people still play him mid?). Koreaplank #1. GP mid isn't half bad, you actually have decent roaming capability with e passive/active, waveclear fast with shiv, and can setup ganks bot by ulting while your bot engages and then you show up to finish them off.
The mapwide CC on ult is so strong. The slow is everywhere in the target area, not just places hit by the cannonballs which miss always unless they're full HP then they do 1k damage and kill.
RNG is pretty hilarious but a slow anywhere on the map is really strong.
with the price decrease on phage/triforce and the sheen proc buff on triforce, might it be a better 2nd item after shiv if the enemy isn't stacking armor?
I feel Trinity after Shiv would only work if you win your lane really really hard, so you can still farm massive amounts of gold to get those defensive items as soon as possible before teamfights start Shiv+Trinity, while you do good damage, you are still very squishy
I think new phage (haven't tested myself) can be good if you are ahead against certain champs that you really need to stick on to Although even with the changes, I feel IBG would be a better choice than trinity if you are against ad top
Still giants belt after shiv seems more safe and stable choice Once you get your shiv+giants belt+wits end put together, you'll beat anyone top lane as long as you are pretty even
I like Kindlegem after Wits/Shiv, particularly if I need MR. It builds into SV which is OP generally, but also synergises well with GP. I'll sometimes get it before Shiv if I'm against a primarily magic based champ. Boots1, Wits, SV makes it impossible for a magic champ to bully you out.
I still feel like in most matchups if you don't get ahead early, you need to counterbuild defensively before you can finish your shiv/wits core. There's just too long of a period (levels 3-8) where you can be bullied off CS hard and fall behind. I've had the most problems with tanky champs who can outtrade you then sustain through any damage you do pre on-hit item(s).
I had a Shen who absolutely murdered me yesterday. I maintained relevance but I couldn't stop him becoming a monster, flying around the map snowballing the rest of the match. He had some jungle help (and I didn't) but once he got a few tanky items he wasn't concerned with my damage in the slightest.
I was somewhat pessimistic when I was sat on boots, shiv and a giants belt wondering what wits would really do to help. The dmg spike was WAY bigger than i expected. Also the orange baits can be so hilarious. TF ults in to dive turret when you are on 50% hp? Good fucking luck TF
Edit: So I am clearly inexperienced with this build. Do people play it mainly top or mid? Any matchups I should specifically avoid? I imagine its is still a risky early pick.
On August 24 2013 00:54 chinstrap wrote: Well I gave this Korean Zeus GP build a try.
I like. I like a lot.
I was somewhat pessimistic when I was sat on boots, shiv and a giants belt wondering what wits would really do to help. The dmg spike was WAY bigger than i expected. Also the orange baits can be so hilarious. TF ults in to dive turret when you are on 50% hp? Good fucking luck TF
Edit: So I am clearly inexperienced with this build. Do people play it mainly top or mid? Any matchups I should specifically avoid? I imagine its is still a risky early pick.
One of the points of it is that it's a very safe pick that is harder to counter than most top picks.
depends on your definition of safe...I guess there isn't really (m)any matchups you'll get slaughtered in as long as you know not to play aggressively as GP is a very strong passive farmer, but there's certainly a lot of match ups you can't do anything but farm passively and ult other lanes...
Remember when GP = automatic opponent starts with cloth? Yeah. No one gives GP any respect anymore. Just went vs a gold 1 irelia, im silver 1 on this account so idk if she thought she could straight up crush me in lane or what. Anyways she goes 21/9 masteries and starts with red elixir/1 pot/ward and teleport. She tried to all in me at lvl 2 and died even with red elixir en route to me snowballing and carrying. Good job good effort.
GP = Rodney Dangerfield
More on topic, I'm still taking iceborne over triforce, even after the triforce buff. Rushing an early shroud is great vs a lot of ad lanes which makes the build path for gauntlet much more attractive. You can sit on the shroud while you get shiv/wits and only build it into gauntlet later. I guess vs double/triple ap a triforce might make more sense since the armor on the gauntlet isn't as necessary early.
Yea, I am talking about maybe trinity as like a 5th/6th item, after core. Definitely not rushing it. I usually wind up finishing IBG after wits/shiv/sv, but vs 2/3 ap maybe a triforce makes more sense after getting a wardens mail or some other cheapish armor. Obv thats a ton of $$s though so would only matter late late game.
Honestly I feel like you should either rush trinity or not get it at all, unless you're good sitting on just one core component for the long haul (can see that w/ phage on some heros, but not on GP against an AP team).
IBG is better because it gives you better peeling / chasing ability (slowing somebody = better for your team than just yourself)
I tried to play Gangplank again after not touching him for a few months or so. I played him for a bit in S2 as bankplank, and while I enjoyed being an immovable brick in lane, I somehow netted a ~30% win rate over a few dozen games.
So I started playing the Zeus build top now. I do fine in lane -- until I get Shiv it's usually fairly even (+/- 1 kill), and then I start winning lane hard. I itemize based on opponent, but generally shiv as first item if I can, as second item if I'm having a hard time (rushing glacial or SV first in that case).
But I'm still losing games. I'm on a 7-game loss streak as GP top. It feels like I just don't impact the game enough, last few games were vs Wukong, Malph, Xin, and Jax top; in every case they pulled way ahead once team fights began.
Any idea what I might be doing wrong? Am I supposed to be aggressive in lane and try to crush the enemy as blitzplank? He just doesn't feel strong in team fights -- no hard CC, on AoE damage apart from ult/shiv proc, no instant gap closers.
You are right that GP is an underwhelming champion.
You basically need to crush top in order to guarantee a win for your team. Fortunately it is not too hard for GP to do that against the unprepared opponent.
I think that in more even lanes, you have three options
1) Split pusher: This is probably GP's best role thanks to his global ulti, high MS, resilience against CC, and natural synergy with AOE items like IBG, Hydra, and Shiv. However he can easily be shut down by superior split pushers such as tryn, Yi, or even Vayne. Don't split push against teams w/ those heros because they will probably just kill you.
2) Support/Peeler: GP is a natural peeler thanks to the slow on his ult and passive. Also the speed boost will help your ADC kite. Solid pick on mobile teams. Frozen Mallet and IBG apply their respective melee slows on his Q!
3) Glass cannon: If you are against a lane that can't kill you, glass cannon GP can be useful for chunking down AP or ADC that are out of position with Q-crits. Otherwise useless in fights because you die so fast.
As I understand the Korean GP build, it's not really any of those three -- you get Shiv and (probably) Wit's, but it seems like you'd go for defensive items after that. Is the Korean build not a good choice if you're even/behind in lane?
Getting Hydra would be a clear departure from what I've been doing so far, if only because the laning phase usually ends before I'd be able to get Shiv, defensive item, and Hydra. I'm not high elo (Gold 4/5), so it's hard to reliably split push without being forced into team fights -- otherwise I'll just lose while the team repeatedly engages 4v5 every other game.
If I already have Shiv+Wits, those don't help with 2) at all, and Wit's doesn't seem like a great choice for 3) either.
But maybe I'm just giving up on split pushing too easily, I don't know why else I'd be so far from ever getting enough gold for a 4th/5th item.
With Wits and Shiv you should be able to just truck kids in the mid game, and should play like a fed Nasus/Udyr/Mundo. Go run at things and be scary, if your AD gets dived you can still ult them to peel unless you ulted to initiate.
Thing is with On-hit style items you have a bit of a fall off late game, at which point you more useful just slowing things that try to hit your AD carry.
If you're gonna be going Hydra you should be getting 9/21/0 or 21/x/x. 1/22/7 is strictly for the Korean Shiv/Wits style. It's pretty strong because it's basically tankplank with more utility and a diversification of damage.
If you're in low Elo and this build isn't totally crushing lanes you might need to farm better or start testing when you can pressure more. There are a lot of spots to all-in with this build in lane and you should crush any matchup that's not like Renekton/Riven at that Elo.
Tankplank is insanely effective as long as you play it correctly, in my opinion and the opinion of the diamond guy on KR server who invented this Shiv/Belt/Wits -> Tank build.
Thanks for the responses. I tried being a bit more aggressive in lane, and it really did pay off, I got stupidly fed off a Nasus and Trynd who both let me get an early kill (but in both cases I barely survived the first fight). I was underestimating GP all-ins because his damage is deceptively low at the start of trades -- it always looks like I'll lose horribly, and only when I force myself to keep fighting do I start pulling ahead. I guess that's because GP's damage isn't cooldown-gated, so you really make up for the lack of front-loaded damage over time.
Zerg, when you say "this build" should be crushing lanes, do you still mean the Korean Shiv/Belt/Wits->Tank or was that specifically about getting Hydra and going 9 or 21 offensive?
I still went 1-4 yesterday with the Korean build, and I'm still not sure how to deal with team fights, but at least I did a lot better KDA-wise (one of the games was a 4v5, and at least one of them had a stupidly fed bot lane).
How do you guys deal with disengages in team fights? Does anyone run ghost or build Shurelyas with the Korean build? I found Ghost essential when fighting Trynd top, and it seemed fantastic to stick to targets in team fights, but I don't know if that was just a lucky game.
Auto-Q-Auto is deceptively powerful. Don't forget that GP has an incredible lvl 1 and lvl 2. You can win a lot of trades if you get to start with a free auto.
Ghost should be okay just don't pick it vs nasus but I do not like picking up shurelya.
In team fights, i wait for my primary initiator to go in, ult on them/behind the enemy so they can't run/wherever is best, and e to give your team the steroid. Your AOE slow + damage and E ms boost + damage steroid should let your team secure superior positioning initially in the fight. GP is especially strong with other AOE/CC champs that he can stack his ult on top of, like mumu/j4/malph/sej/etc. After that I either go balls deep on enemy squishies or peel for mine depending on my team comp, enemy team comp, and how fed I am. Even with the korean build's lack of burst damage you will still blow people up deceptively quickly mid/early late game in fights. Late game your damage falls off especially against tanks, but by then you should have something like a IBG which will let you peel better for your carries, while still doing strong Q damage against squishies.
Shurelyas seems pretty bad since your E is a pseudo shurelyas, with E passive + shiv you are very speedy yourself, and your passive will slow down enemy anyways so you shouldn't have trouble sticking to people.
Makes sense, I was trying too hard to make plays by being the primary initiator, especially when our team didn't already have an "obvious" initiator like Malphite/Amumu. Being more of a follow-up makes perfect sense with GP's kit, and I can see now why my attempts to initiate team fights weren't ideal. Thanks.
I actually don't really like the Zeus build that much. Anytime the game drags a bit I feel like I just do no damage in team fights. I've scrapped the wits from the bulid (unless I'm actually against AP, in which case I might use it over shiv). Build up some defensive items and then I actually go for more damage. As stupid and cheesy as it is I've started getting Infinity Edge because your presence in teamfights suddenly shoots up when you start critting the squishies for 1/5 of their hp w/ one Q.
I definitely feel people have forgotten how to play against GP though. If you max W and play defensively then decide to all in people forget how much your passive does and how well you bate under tower. If you max Q and they neglect armor you can start chunking them hard and fast and start zoning them from creeps.
IE is great except where are you getting the money for it? Most games laning phase is over before I can finish wits let alone an IE. I'm usually coming out of laning phase with something like shiv/glacial shroud/kindlegem vs an AD. After laning phase I find its tough to recall with the 1600 gold for a bf sword unless you randomly pick up a triple kill or something. On top of that, you have no armor pen so poking with IE against their front line isn't going to be doing much damage. Sure you can chunk squishies but IBG seems like a much better buy for the same purpose, gives a bunch of extra damage to your Q while also giving much more utility and tankiness. It also syngergizes with shiv in that both give you a big chunk of AOE magic damage on those pokes.
Agreed that people forgot to play vs GP though, especially early game where you get no respect and people start regen or flask or d sword and try to fight you at lvl 1 or 2.
On September 09 2013 22:05 DrunkenOne wrote: IE is great except where are you getting the money for it? Most games laning phase is over before I can finish wits let alone an IE. I'm usually coming out of laning phase with something like shiv/glacial shroud/kindlegem vs an AD. After laning phase I find its tough to recall with the 1600 gold for a bf sword unless you randomly pick up a triple kill or something. On top of that, you have no armor pen so poking with IE against their front line isn't going to be doing much damage. Sure you can chunk squishies but IBG seems like a much better buy for the same purpose, gives a bunch of extra damage to your Q while also giving much more utility and tankiness. It also syngergizes with shiv in that both give you a big chunk of AOE magic damage on those pokes.
Agreed that people forgot to play vs GP though, especially early game where you get no respect and people start regen or flask or d sword and try to fight you at lvl 1 or 2.
Well when you remove wits from the equation you get the extra 2k+ to build towards your IE. Obviously IE is somehwat of a luxury item still, but getting 5 items isn't that crazy rare or anything. I usually go for shiv, boots, then randuins (maybe glacial, depends on matchups), visage, then build that extra chunk of damage. I messed around with hydra a little too but I didn't feel it offered quite enough. Shiv + Q + auto's already clears waves decently fast.
Frozen fist just doesn't really seem that important to me. You should be able to get on somebody's face as GP with your ult, passive, and W so adding in another big slow doesn't seem that important.
For what it's worth, I might consider building wits and shiv together again but I'd probably save wits for the 6th item instead of an earlier buy.
I actually like wits end quite a bit unless vs all AD comps, it just feels good. Similarly, I don't like IE. It just feels meh. I can't tell you why exactly I like/don't like them it just feels right :D
I agree that Hydra or any other damage item really feels lackluster on GP so I just build straight Supportyish Tank items after wits, but I still like getting wits!
And yeah, people do not know how to play vs GP. I 2v1ed a Kennen and a J4 at lvl 2. I killed kennen with auto-q-auto ignite auto. I started to run from J4 when I was like, wait a minute, I'm playing gangplank, so I killed him too.
I feel like if you are going for wit´s it makes sense to go for a full magic pen build of sorts to help out your ulti. Given that GP leans more to the tanky side late game, going for sunfire -instead of shyv- along with wit´s makes sense. This also alleviates the AoE farming issue that GPs always look to fix via shyv/hydra/iceborn. After that I work on a Liandry´s. I just hate people ignoring my ulti mid/late game. You can overdo this by going mage boots if your team needs more damage from you. Same for offensive vs defensive masteries.
Yes, GP doesn´t have the magic damage to warrant a "full-on" magic pen build, however he has the ability to stick to people for persistent sunfire damage better than most IMO. I round up the build with flash+ghost summoners with the enchantment to reduce their cooldowns and help stick to people, and hybrid pen marks and quints for runes. It works ok because you really burn through enemies with your passive+sunfire+wit´s end, and a well placed ulti late game is a head start to the fight for your team.
The build is a lot more focused in purpose if you go Shiv because you can apply the proc with Q in teamfights and the extra attackspeed just works better with his whole kit of free AD + Wit's End.
Like I sometimes still get Sunfire but Randuin's Omen is strictly better as far as tank items go and you can just build Shiv (a damage item) if you want damage.
If you're having trouble farming or pushing wtf are you doing with the Shiv?
Anyway I'm not certain that your build is bad because I absolutely haven't tried it but I'm relatively sure you're sacrificing your entire early game with ghost/flash and hybrid pen marks. If you can't all-in because you're not running ignite and have no AD then a lot of lanes can just totally disrespect you and you'll end up losing lanes you should win with two escape summoners.
I don´t get the shyv with this build. Basically, it´s a different style: I hate to have my ulti ignored, so I can´t go shyv+wit´s+liandry´s and expect to survive anything. With wit´s+sunfire+liandry´s you are not any kind of god but can take some hits and still have that powerful initiation tool with your ulti. Sometimes games are about 5v5 battles and shyv won´t outperform Liandry´s there IMO.
Don´t get me wrong, I have mained GP since season 1 and know the feeling of an early shyv. But saying you are sacrificing the early game is misleading: I don´t believe you can have any kind of advantage early game as GP vs 99% of the champ pool (well, the usual suspects in the top lane) past lvl 1-2. I can open tabi+sunfire and be just as dangerous through sheer sustained damage while having an easier time surviving until I can buy it, Building tanky early makes your W so much better.
Similarly for ghost/flash vs ignite. I would say ghost/flash has just as much killing potential, it just depends on the situation. Flash/ghost are not escape summoners.
PS: I say the above on the basis of my climbing the ladder to gold 1 ("poltrip" in EUW) with GP support (hell yeah) by building early tabi+max W+barrier and just tanking my may out of things.
TBH GP ult is a pretty bad initiation skill It works much better if someone else can initiate first (or if you are initiated on), then you throw your ulti to follow up, so people don't automatically dash/run out of it (everyone has a dash nowadays)
Also I don't see the point of liandry just for you ulti, that seems extremely cost inefficent, and a ton of gold sunk in that doesn't help your lane very much.
Even if you buy it later, how much better would another item be?
Liandry's cost 2900 gold and spending that much gold JUST for your ulti seems ridiculous You can buy a Frozen Heart, Randuins, Spirit Visage, Warmogs, Ghostblade or Last Whisper If you pay a bit more, you can get Hydra's (3300), BoRK (3200) or even a Trinity (3628, ok so this one is quite bit more expensive)
I say the same I said in the post above. Who is to say any of those items will help your team more than a Liandry´s? Your ult is used normally at the start of a fight -used for initiation or not-, and that amplifies the damage quite a bit. It´s the same as using it for saving a tower. Would any of those items help you there as much? I am not sure it is clear at all. Obviously, at the start of a fight, well placed, Liandry´s will outperform any and all of those items.
Can do upwards of 1,500 extra damage with your ult Can do equal or more damage with your Q because of the slow from your passive The magic pen synergizes with your passive, ult, wit's end and its own passive 50 more health from your W 300 more health
Cons:
Weak split pushing Performs poorly in duels, making it harder to dive carries in team fights If you're going wit's end, defensive item, liandry's, you'll only have 5% crit chance from your masteries Does nothing for your autos outside of the magic pen Your Q will do more damage with shivv if against multiple opponents/opponents aren't near max health Relies heavily on getting off a great ult
It's like putting all your eggs in one basket Get off a great ult, you get good results Your ult goes poorly, well, then 2900 gold goes down the drain Outside of your ult, the stats that liandry gives hardly adds to gp's strength
Any of the items I listed above will consistently give out good results depending on which item you buy for the enemy team They all give helpful stats that adds to GP as a melee champ without gap closers or magic damage spells (other than ult) Not to mention aura/teamfight items (Frozen Heart, IBG, etc which benefits the team as well. Liandry's doesn't add to your teamfight presence (outside of ult), as you are less tanky, have less utility, and do less damage
And I don't agree that even with a well placed GP Ult, Liandry's would outperform any of those items Maybe if the enemy team stacks a lot of health or something
On September 12 2013 08:35 unjugon wrote: I say the same I said in the post above. Who is to say any of those items will help your team more than a Liandry´s? Your ult is used normally at the start of a fight -used for initiation or not-, and that amplifies the damage quite a bit. It´s the same as using it for saving a tower. Would any of those items help you there as much? I am not sure it is clear at all. Obviously, at the start of a fight, well placed, Liandry´s will outperform any and all of those items.
Are you playing against retards as well or are you the only one in the games you play?
Seriously though are you trolling or just dumb? You want to spend 2900 on an item so that you can clear towers better with your ult every 2 minutes?
Chill :D I'm diamond 1 and have actually tried magic pen gp. Yes it sucks, but on paper I too, thought it could work. GP is honestly still in a very bad spot right now, almost everything he does champs like zed will do 10 times better. The "korean build" isn't honestly that good and I've never managed to make it work at high elo (yeah on the smurf it works...). There's a reason he's never picked in pro games.
Like, go the fuck ahead, and stay bronze 5 for the rest of your life with builds like that lol Are you playing against retards as well or are you the only one in the games you play? Seriously though are you trolling or just dumb? You want to spend 2900 on an item so that you can clear towers better with your ult every 2 minutes?
Please may you stop it with the insults? As said, I am gold 1 EUW with ******* GP support, so up to at least platinum, all leagues are no better than bronze. You don´t clear towers, you save them by forcing enemies away. This kind of utility can offer the team more than other more specialized dps/tanky items, especially for GP since he is a master of no trades.
Chill :D I'm diamond 1 and have actually tried magic pen gp. Yes it sucks, but on paper I too, thought it could work. GP is honestly still in a very bad spot right now, almost everything he does champs like zed will do 10 times better. The "korean build" isn't honestly that good and I've never managed to make it work at high elo (yeah on the smurf it works...). There's a reason he's never picked in pro games.
Well put, boggles the mind that people think that Korean build will somehow make GP work.
And the "korean build" is really strong, you probably just haven't read it? It's not just "buy shiv, buy wit's end", there's a whole playstyle and mastery set with it. If it's not working for you, you're playing it wrong or those players in gold 1 on EU are stronger than diamond players on NA.
I haven´t tried it, I know it won´t work. Rouaf has tried it and it didn´t really work.
All variations of dps GP are destined to fail over the long haul, from my experience. This is not to say that tanky GP is good, I have only managed to get consistent results as support where you rely on having another strong top/mid instead of yourself.
The Liandry´s isn´t "good", but I don´t believe it is worse than other items listed -for GP-, in many circumstances.
On September 12 2013 18:55 unjugon wrote: I haven´t tried it, I know it won´t work. Rouaf has tried it and it didn´t really work.
All variations of dps GP are destined to fail over the long haul, from my experience. This is not to say that tanky GP is good, I have only managed to get consistent results as support where you rely on having another strong top/mid instead of yourself.
The Liandry´s isn´t "good", but I don´t believe it is worse than other items listed -for GP-, in many circumstances.
You haven't tried it and know it won't work, despite better players than you having played it with success...?
Wasn´t there a high rated NA player that used to go 100% crit chance GP in season 1 or 2? Doesn´t prove much. Note that I think the Korean build is one of the better GP builds -much better that ad/crit based builds-, but it won´t somehow save him because he is just that bad. Some posts above yours you have a high rated player for which it didn´t work.
Liandries IS worse than other items listed for GP in the majority of circumstances! These circumstances are the 103 out of 110 seconds that your ultimate is not being used. Furthermore, the concept of relying on GP's ult, the most unreliable ult in the game, is just silly.
Also, some posts above yours have a high player for which it didn't work. In fact, no high rated player has made Liandries work on GP. But there exists high rated players that make Zeus build work on GP, including the original creator of the guide who is Diamond 1 in Korea.
And finally, just because GP is not in a great place right now does not mean that 1) He does not have optimal build orders 2) Building optimally will not help you 3) I might as well just build Liandries cause ult
On September 13 2013 00:08 Mauzel wrote: [...] But there exists high rated players that make Zeus build work on GP, including the original creator of the guide who is Diamond 1 in Korea.
Won't argue with the rest, but about this:, I'm not sure the creator of this build was diamond 1 in korea, all the data we had was a post mentioning he was diamond if I remember correctly. Seeing is believing, until I see this build work at high level (and I'd honestly prefer a pro game) I'll assume it doesn't. As for me I played quite a lot of gp and haven't had any success with it (ofc that doesn't prove anything and it could just be that it doesn't fit my play-style).
Fair enough though it seemed credible to me. That said no one is claiming this will work at the highest lvl. This is not because the build is not optimal but because GP is too weak right now.
On September 13 2013 00:08 Mauzel wrote: [...] But there exists high rated players that make Zeus build work on GP, including the original creator of the guide who is Diamond 1 in Korea.
Won't argue with the rest, but about this:, I'm not sure the creator of this build was diamond 1 in korea, all the data we had was a post mentioning he was diamond if I remember correctly. Seeing is believing, until I see this build work at high level (and I'd honestly prefer a pro game) I'll assume it doesn't. As for me I played quite a lot of gp and haven't had any success with it (ofc that doesn't prove anything and it could just be that it doesn't fit my play-style).
Some part of the reason why it works obviously is that no one is used to Gangplank anymore in SoloQ. Frankly I've had successes with Zeus build, but at least 60% of that is that no one really knows what the hell they should do to stop me (that being don't dive risky dives early even if it might look tempting). If you look at his kit in all honesty, he is pretty weak compared to many other top laners. His ult esp. is hit and miss far too often (I've had someone run through the entire length of it without getting hit by a single cannonball). His Q might be nice, but pantheons Q is nicer. His heal (and cleanse) is great for lane sustain and baiting, but simply put he doesn't deal enough damage for most short teamfights (and they are pretty short).
Voyboy played Gangplank in an aram at some point during the summer and he summed it up pretty concisely why he doesn't play the char: 1) No skills to "outplay" the opponent with (skillshots, movement abilities etc.) which means his kit is on the weaker side of things (according to him skillshots do slightly more damage to make up for the fact that you have to hit them). 2) Nothing in his kit screams "My team needs this" 3) Nothing in his kit says: This skill makes me a lane bully.
If a char doesn't have at least one of those 3 you won't see a pro playing him. So be prepared for a long wait if you truly want to see any build tested in a LCS level game. If you are in a random soloq game and you are up against a top laner which doesn't have Vladimir level of sustain you might give him a whirl and be surprised how effective he can be, but most pros want something more
On September 13 2013 03:38 unjugon wrote: We can keep that last post and delete the 3-4 pages before it pretty much. Very well put.
You needed some voyboy perspective to realize GP is an underpower champ? It doesn't matter if he is. I play him because I want to play GP, not because I want to play a broken fotm or secretly op champ. Just because he's underpowered doesn't mean you shouldn't try to find a way to play/build him optimally.
I also disagree that he has no outplay potential. W max allows you to create situations where you can outplay on the defense as well as on the offense with tactical use of fruit cleanse/heal. He has a global ultimate which can turn fights from across the map and his auto-attack/q slows on-hit. He also has a built-in team steroid.
I'm not arguing that he's the best champ but he's working fine for me in platinum+ and I find him fun, which is the most important factor for me.
Also he's seen play in pro matches recently in Korea (albeit as a jungler by jin air falcons in a game they lost) so it's not as if he's totally unplayable like Poppy or Heimerdinger (who also saw play in China).
On September 13 2013 02:01 Tula wrote: Some part of the reason why it works obviously is that no one is used to Gangplank anymore in SoloQ. Frankly I've had successes with Zeus build, but at least 60% of that is that no one really knows what the hell they should do to stop me (that being don't dive risky dives early even if it might look tempting). If you look at his kit in all honesty, he is pretty weak compared to many other top laners. His ult esp. is hit and miss far too often (I've had someone run through the entire length of it without getting hit by a single cannonball). His Q might be nice, but pantheons Q is nicer. His heal (and cleanse) is great for lane sustain and baiting, but simply put he doesn't deal enough damage for most short teamfights (and they are pretty short).
Agree with all of this. A lot of the success of the korean build is that people: A) don't remember (or maybe didn't even play) when GP was considered the #1 lane bully in the game and come to lane with bead/flask/dsword starts and give up FB at lvl 1/2 OR, they do remember GP terror but: B) rush tabi or stack armor to counter you, which does nothing vs your shiv/wits build. C) most GPs were glass cannon crit planks so they think they can easily dive you and blow you up quickly, allowing for easy W baits.
I love the zeus build and GP in general but that doesn't change the fact that he is pretty weak in comparison to newer champs. However I really have no idea how to buff him without making him completely overpowered or having to rework his kit. You can't buff his base stats which are already fairly strong, especially since his lvl 1/2 are so OP. Maybe buff his very weak stat scaling? He has the most health in the game at lvl 1 with 576 but he only gains +81 a level which leaves him at a ridiculously low 1953 hp at lvl 18. This is only 1 more health than kogmaw. Jax has almost 300 more health at 18. GP's AD/level is also on the low side at +3 while most other fighters have +3.1-3.5. Not a huge difference but adds up.
Besides his base/scaling stats idk what to do other than fixing raise morale so it instacasts instead of the stupid animation causing him to pause. I guess reverting his numerous nerfs to raise morale, decreasing mana cost on Q back to where it was, and maybe making passive stack 4 times instead of 3 would be a start.
On September 14 2013 03:10 RouaF wrote: I'm quite sure his base (and+lvl) attack speed is really shitty too. Haven't checked exact stats though.
His base AD is 54 + 3 per level which is pretty good, putting him in the high-average range, but he gets 16 free AD from E as a passive + his DoT from his passive and +40 AD when E is active, giving him one of the highest AD stats in the game I think.
His base attack speed is high-average as well but he has an autoattack reset and you're building two major attackspeed items on him.
gangplank is definitely not underpowered. he's just a cheese hero now after all his nerfs. hes completely ridiculous in certain circumstances if they buffed him to actually be decent in the areas he's weak in then he'd just be ridiculous
Literally anything is viable through platinum, including your 2900 mpen item build
People are so bad under diamond that it doesn't really matter that you wasted a Frozen Heart's worth of gold on an item that MIGHT do 12% of their health every 2 minutes.
Seriously though keep building Liandry's on Gangplank and playing him support and wonder why you're stuck in plat promos
Also I just want to point out I'm not arguing with you because I don't like you--I don't, but that's not the reason why--I'm arguing with you because you're posting retarded shit in our strategy thread and defending it with "it worked in silver"
You got that mixed around: I was stuck in silver playing normally until I started doing nothing but GP support, where I do not build Liandry´s because I have no gold! There´s also the level of players, you make it sound like all players are equally good and any retarded build can work up to diamond, which is obviously false. I was a SILVER player, and started climbing with GP support..I was not a platinum player -or gold.
Liandry´s does up to 4% of current HP per second, and GP´s ulti lasts 7 seconds, which means it can do more than double your 12%, disregarding the magic pen and AP for ulti damage. This can help your team A WHOLE LOT MORE than the frozen heart. Sometimes. Not saying it is better per se. Not sure why you don´t like me, you have been the only one being insulting and I like you just fine.
In fact, potentially the Liandry´s effect can last for 7+2 (or +3, depending on how it works) seconds. We are looking to like 1/3rd of their HP with some more magic pen and an abyssal from a teammate.
On September 15 2013 17:31 unjugon wrote: You got that mixed around: I was stuck in silver playing normally until I started doing nothing but GP support, where I do not build Liandry´s because I have no gold! There´s also the level of players, you make it sound like all players are equally good and any retarded build can work up to diamond, which is obviously false. I was a SILVER player, and started climbing with GP support..I was not a platinum player -or gold.
Liandry´s does up to 4% of current HP per second, and GP´s ulti lasts 7 seconds, which means it can do more than double your 12%, disregarding the magic pen and AP for ulti damage. This can help your team A WHOLE LOT MORE than the frozen heart. Sometimes. Not saying it is better per se. Not sure why you don´t like me, you have been the only one being insulting and I like you just fine.
Simply put that is wrong. Liandry's might do 4% in theory, but you do not have the magic pen to make that realistic. By the time you buy it almost everyone WILL have at least 50 magic resist (with the current Spirit visage meta chances are at least 2 people on the enemy team will already have their negatron cloak).
You are still ignoring the fact that the Cannonballs are random. Yes on a perfect ult when all the stars align you might hit every single enemy twice, which in total would add some significant damage, but in practice it doesn't happen like that, most people do not fight in Gangplank ults they either dive through it asap or they disengage (which on Silver can sometimes lead to hilarious missplays by the enemy team when 3 people disengage and 2 dive through but that is another matter). In addition the way Liandry's works is that if you hit a target twice you override the first proc, Often even before the damage ticks (classic example teemo shrooms).
Just for clarity's sake, are we discussing Gangplank support or top lane plank now? If we are discussing Support I'll give you the classic answer, yes it might work at silver but that has more to do with most people at silver having no clue what to expect from him. If you look at his kit he has almost nothing in it which supports usually bring (no cc, no heals). The only thing he does bring is a medium team buff and some poke (in all honesty he has decent poke at shortish range) and the ability to do surprising amounts of damage in short trades.
If your opponents knew what to do almost any common bot lane could either outpoke him and his adc (sona/lulu + any pokey adc) or allin the adc (Nami, thresh, leona) without gp being any help at all. He can't peel for his adc unless you count summoner exhaust. Yes it might work, but strategies that rely on opponents being stupid only work until you meet the opponents that can actually think through a strategy.
At bronze Teemo support used to be all the rage when I started to play, mostly because his levels 1-5 are strong no matter if you have items or not. Not really surprisingly as soon as I ranked up to silver almost everyone knew how to deal with that yordle and the "standard" support lanes started to take over.
So bottom line, does Liandry add damage to your ult? Of course it does. Does the damage in any way shape or form pay off for the rather high cost of the item? Seldom at best. Does GP support work (or is it viable?)? As long as your opponents are in the "I have no clue what this champion does" school of thought it might work brilliantly. Heck for that matter as long as you control your char perfectly and know exactly when his power spikes in comparison to your enemies (which I'd assume you do considering you seem to main GP support) and your opponents lack that same knowledge of your champion (also very likely considering how rare GP is) you can feasibly have an easy time until you reach way above your typical weight class. Niche picks are always like that simply because the Surprise factor can work to give you a nice snowball. It still doesn't mean the char is feasibly for mainstream play.
On September 15 2013 17:31 unjugon wrote: You got that mixed around: I was stuck in silver playing normally until I started doing nothing but GP support, where I do not build Liandry´s because I have no gold! There´s also the level of players, you make it sound like all players are equally good and any retarded build can work up to diamond, which is obviously false. I was a SILVER player, and started climbing with GP support..I was not a platinum player -or gold.
Liandry´s does up to 4% of current HP per second, and GP´s ulti lasts 7 seconds, which means it can do more than double your 12%, disregarding the magic pen and AP for ulti damage. This can help your team A WHOLE LOT MORE than the frozen heart. Sometimes. Not saying it is better per se. Not sure why you don´t like me, you have been the only one being insulting and I like you just fine.
The reason I don't like you is because you are posting retarded strategy advice in a thread and are defending by making shit up because you don't understand what it's like to play against good players.
On September 15 2013 18:31 unjugon wrote: In fact, potentially the Liandry´s effect can last for 7+2 (or +3, depending on how it works) seconds. We are looking to like 1/3rd of their HP with some more magic pen and an abyssal from a teammate.
No, you're not going to do 1/3 of the enemy team's HP with a Liandry's. How can you even think that's realistic? The proc doesn't stack.
I've played matches in platinum with a player who forced udyr support (Haoz, previously #1 TT S1). We won lane. Does that make it good? No. Everyone just sucks at this game. Nobody who's stuck under diamond is any good, myself included.
My standard of good is probably just a lot higher than yours is because I was top 200 in S1. I've played against most of the players in the LCS and a lot of the korean leagues on a regular basis for long enough to know what good really looks like. I could namedrop here but people always give me shit for it when I'm just using it to make a legitimate point (everyone is horrible and it doesn't matter what you do against them because they're bad). Just because a build is working for you doesn't make it good. Just because you're playing a champion and you're dominating with it doesn't make it good. As you get higher up, people understand the game better and better and retarded stuff that gold players can't deal with will just get you shit on by players who can deal with that level of retardedness.
Seriously though you're still unable to admit that your retarded Liandry's Torment on Gangplank build is bad and that support GP isn't good because you totally don't understand what supporting is about. It's not about winning lane at all. It's about winning the game, and without a real support with real support skills you're just shooting your team in the foot.
It's clearly too much for you to comprehend, so I'm done posting here. Advocate whatever kind of retarded shit you want. I tried.
After 30 games as koreanplank, I find that I skip wits end about 3/4 of the time, unless against an AP top where I will rush it instead of shiv, a very easy top/someone I am dominating and don't need a defensive item, or there is a long laning phase where I can get a ton of farm. If I am against a tough AD like say lee or darius or riven and am forced to rush a glacial shroud, it becomes almost impossible to get both a shiv and wits before laning phase ends. And after laning ends and people are grouping for objectives, its more valuable imo to upgrade the glacial to an IBG for more poke damage in sieges and better utility instead of sightly more AA damage. A parley with shiv proc + IBG proc does huge damage to squishies. After that, I need health due to GPs terrible health scaling so I get a SV or randuins (usually SV unless they are almost all AD).
The relatively fast IBG also synergizes really well with koreanplanks excellent baiting playstyle, if you can bait people to engage on you midlane/dragon you can just W out of CC, Q them for AOE slow, ult yourself, E steroid your team, run away while they are slowed from ult and Q and getting wrecked, then Q someone low health for the double proc burst.
How you guys open koreanplank vs teemo? I tried opening dshield+1 health pot but got creamed in lane by teemo. I was able to carry later due to not getting enough gold to even do much of the koreanplank build and subed into bork sunfire cape and building Trinity Force before game ended. Thanks!
On October 12 2013 10:03 LightningStrike wrote: How you guys open koreanplank vs teemo? I tried opening dshield+1 health pot but got creamed in lane by teemo. I was able to carry later due to not getting enough gold to even do much of the koreanplank build and subed into bork sunfire cape and building Trinity Force before game ended. Thanks!
It simple, you open Fort pot and hope you kill him level 1, and then atleast 2-3 times again before 6 or you autolose lane and you should just rice hard.
On October 12 2013 10:03 LightningStrike wrote: How you guys open koreanplank vs teemo? I tried opening dshield+1 health pot but got creamed in lane by teemo. I was able to carry later due to not getting enough gold to even do much of the koreanplank build and subed into bork sunfire cape and building Trinity Force before game ended. Thanks!
I'm not sure, but I feel like flask is a better first item than dshield flash + 4pot = 360+450 health whereas dorans+hpot is 100 hp + 1hp/s + 150 health
Other than that we'd have to see the replay.
I played Kayle vs GP yesterday. GP is a huge lane bully when using Q to harass. For GP the vs Kayle and vs Teemo matchup are basically the same except Kayle slows 1-5.
GP wasn't losing lane. If you get a sheen your Q = the damage from Teemo's Q+E but if you take more autos in that trade it's not worth it. Also GP has a better cd? 5s to 8 second. You should make use of that by shooting more Q's than Teemo does. Use the brush to not take more than one auto from Teemo per trade.
Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
2) Go full rice mode. Can straight up just buy like a giants belt+Avarice blade and ignore him because uinless he started like 40 AD or something he'll never burn through a giants belt and Wmax. Ever.
Other thing that hard to odo,but true, GP isn't a "trade"-y champ anymore. You rarely win trades with just Q's because of dem nerfs (Q nerfs, base AD nerfs, AD scaling nerfs, etc). His passive is really strong though, you usually win long extended fights on even footings. Its weird, I know, but it is true. Takes some getting used to. Sometimes its better to use you mana to last hit with Q safely, and then you dont need to use W as frequently because they can't really zone you and you aren't in line of fire as often.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
2) Go full rice mode. Can straight up just buy like a giants belt+Avarice blade and ignore him because uinless he started like 40 AD or something he'll never burn through a giants belt and Wmax. Ever.
Other thing that hard to odo,but true, GP isn't a "trade"-y champ anymore. You rarely win trades with just Q's because of dem nerfs (Q nerfs, base AD nerfs, AD scaling nerfs, etc). His passive is really strong though, you usually win long extended fights on even footings. Its weird, I know, but it is true. Takes some getting used to. Sometimes its better to use you mana to last hit with Q safely, and then you dont need to use W as frequently because they can't really zone you and you aren't in line of fire as often.
So my all in didn't work and I sure as hell wasn't going to fight him in his creeps at level 2. I guess my only option was full rice mode.
The strange thing is, I've been on the Shen side of things too and it's a hard matchup from there if he just spams Q with a sheen. GP doesn't feel like he has mana problems and any time you can bait a shield, you get a free Q. It takes a while but it adds up. I must just suck.
Against tanks theres just no point in trying to kill past the first five minutes of the game. That's not why you pick Gangplank anyway. You pick Gangplank to help win the other lanes and to be a pain in the ass in the mid/late game teamfights.
On November 01 2013 18:19 Osmoses wrote: Against tanks theres just no point in trying to kill past the first five minutes of the game. That's not why you pick Gangplank anyway. You pick Gangplank to help win the other lanes and to be a pain in the ass in the mid/late game teamfights.
It was a normals, but assuming you're calling roles in ranked, and your opponents all know how to counterpick too, about half the time you'll be in an unfavorable matchup and should learn to deal with them either by swapping lanes if it's a ridiculous lane, or doing damage control.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
Disagree with that. GP can solo kill almost anybody w/o an escape. If you're against Shen and you're starting redpot you will most likely kill him if you catch him going through river. 3stack passive slow lets you get off a couple extra autos.
mmm, not unless he messes up or stops to attack you. auto q auto takes a while and puts some space between you, even with 21% slow. a flash to get closer to tower usually makes them safe, even if you flash after them. Depends where you catch them, I suppose.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
Disagree with that. GP can solo kill almost anybody w/o an escape. If you're against Shen and you're starting redpot you will most likely kill him if you catch him going through river. 3stack passive slow lets you get off a couple extra autos.
Shen has an escape. He also has flash.
What kind of player goes to lane with skills already skilled?
o.o
If I'm playing Shen, i'd be walking from leashing with no skill, would pres CTRL+E and escape. No way you kill him.
Even if he doesn't do that, I dont think following flash against a Shen a smart move unless he guaranteed dead anyway, would rather just take him using his summoner, keep my flash and have that boon in my backpocket for later. A good jungler that knows GP has no flash against a Shen will kill you.
Good players knowing you dont have flash means your life sucks.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
2) Go full rice mode. Can straight up just buy like a giants belt+Avarice blade and ignore him because uinless he started like 40 AD or something he'll never burn through a giants belt and Wmax. Ever.
Other thing that hard to odo,but true, GP isn't a "trade"-y champ anymore. You rarely win trades with just Q's because of dem nerfs (Q nerfs, base AD nerfs, AD scaling nerfs, etc). His passive is really strong though, you usually win long extended fights on even footings. Its weird, I know, but it is true. Takes some getting used to. Sometimes its better to use you mana to last hit with Q safely, and then you dont need to use W as frequently because they can't really zone you and you aren't in line of fire as often.
So my all in didn't work and I sure as hell wasn't going to fight him in his creeps at level 2. I guess my only option was full rice mode.
The strange thing is, I've been on the Shen side of things too and it's a hard matchup from there if he just spams Q with a sheen. GP doesn't feel like he has mana problems and any time you can bait a shield, you get a free Q. It takes a while but it adds up. I must just suck.
Out of curiosity, how did you all in him in the River?
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
Disagree with that. GP can solo kill almost anybody w/o an escape. If you're against Shen and you're starting redpot you will most likely kill him if you catch him going through river. 3stack passive slow lets you get off a couple extra autos.
Shen has an escape. He also has flash.
What kind of player goes to lane with skills already skilled?
o.o
If I'm playing Shen, i'd be walking from leashing with no skill, would pres CTRL+E and escape. No way you kill him.
Even if he doesn't do that, I dont think following flash against a Shen a smart move unless he guaranteed dead anyway, would rather just take him using his summoner, keep my flash and have that boon in my backpocket for later. A good jungler that knows GP has no flash against a Shen will kill you.
Good players knowing you dont have flash means your life sucks.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
2) Go full rice mode. Can straight up just buy like a giants belt+Avarice blade and ignore him because uinless he started like 40 AD or something he'll never burn through a giants belt and Wmax. Ever.
Other thing that hard to odo,but true, GP isn't a "trade"-y champ anymore. You rarely win trades with just Q's because of dem nerfs (Q nerfs, base AD nerfs, AD scaling nerfs, etc). His passive is really strong though, you usually win long extended fights on even footings. Its weird, I know, but it is true. Takes some getting used to. Sometimes its better to use you mana to last hit with Q safely, and then you dont need to use W as frequently because they can't really zone you and you aren't in line of fire as often.
So my all in didn't work and I sure as hell wasn't going to fight him in his creeps at level 2. I guess my only option was full rice mode.
The strange thing is, I've been on the Shen side of things too and it's a hard matchup from there if he just spams Q with a sheen. GP doesn't feel like he has mana problems and any time you can bait a shield, you get a free Q. It takes a while but it adds up. I must just suck.
Out of curiosity, how did you all in him in the River?
In my post above that I said I just kinda ran at him and shot Qs. I guess it's not an all in since I didn't really ignite or flash him, but I would have followed up if he hadn't ran away from me immediately after a Q auto.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
Disagree with that. GP can solo kill almost anybody w/o an escape. If you're against Shen and you're starting redpot you will most likely kill him if you catch him going through river. 3stack passive slow lets you get off a couple extra autos.
Shen has an escape. He also has flash.
What kind of player goes to lane with skills already skilled?
o.o
If I'm playing Shen, i'd be walking from leashing with no skill, would pres CTRL+E and escape. No way you kill him.
Even if he doesn't do that, I dont think following flash against a Shen a smart move unless he guaranteed dead anyway, would rather just take him using his summoner, keep my flash and have that boon in my backpocket for later. A good jungler that knows GP has no flash against a Shen will kill you.
Good players knowing you dont have flash means your life sucks.
On November 01 2013 12:15 obesechicken13 wrote:
On November 01 2013 11:46 iCanada wrote:
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
2) Go full rice mode. Can straight up just buy like a giants belt+Avarice blade and ignore him because uinless he started like 40 AD or something he'll never burn through a giants belt and Wmax. Ever.
Other thing that hard to odo,but true, GP isn't a "trade"-y champ anymore. You rarely win trades with just Q's because of dem nerfs (Q nerfs, base AD nerfs, AD scaling nerfs, etc). His passive is really strong though, you usually win long extended fights on even footings. Its weird, I know, but it is true. Takes some getting used to. Sometimes its better to use you mana to last hit with Q safely, and then you dont need to use W as frequently because they can't really zone you and you aren't in line of fire as often.
So my all in didn't work and I sure as hell wasn't going to fight him in his creeps at level 2. I guess my only option was full rice mode.
The strange thing is, I've been on the Shen side of things too and it's a hard matchup from there if he just spams Q with a sheen. GP doesn't feel like he has mana problems and any time you can bait a shield, you get a free Q. It takes a while but it adds up. I must just suck.
Out of curiosity, how did you all in him in the River?
In my post above that I said I just kinda ran at him and shot Qs. I guess it's not an all in since I didn't really ignite or flash him, but I would have followed up if he hadn't ran away from me immediately after a Q auto.
Next time you standing in that river brush autoQauto instead, gets another free auto in on that combo, and makes it much harder for them to run away because they slowed with 3 stacks instead of 2.
I think I'm going to give up on GP. I just don't see his strengths besides maybe winning lane for his allies and surviving laning.
Very frustrating to ult and then have the enemy Gragas just turn 15 degrees and dash to the side or to ult a Rammus at low health and then not kill him. How does an offtank/squishy melee with no gap closer scale into late game?
edit: maybe I expect too much from pirate given how much gold I had. Nasus fits in the same archetype spending 3k on offensive stats (triforce-health).
I think he has good and bad teamcomps/matchups. I've won and lost with him just as I have with Riven and Tryndamere. Different playstyles for different jobs. Gangplank is my go-to guy when the opposition goes renekton or nasus (I've found he basically does well against tanky bruisers, and playing against renekton or nasus as riven/tryndamere is really annoying)
His free cleanse means he can be played somewhat recklessly, which is great against rammus jungle or ahri mid. Get out of cc freecard is really strong. And fun. And thats really what it comes down to. Playing what you enjoy. And if I can consistently win games with him in plat1 I don't think it's fair to call him not viable.
I've been finding that statikk shiv + E passive can make you faster than some champions that have t2 boots(i've been seeing around ~400 ms), so is it reasonable just to skip t2 boots until very late/not get boots at all if the enemy team is fairly slow?
Because GP doesn't have an escape faster is always better. So get both :p I generally build TF first though, because sheen helps with his mana issues and the phage speed procs > zeal passive.
On November 01 2013 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote: Just played a game of GP vs Shen. I tried to fight him level 1 when he was leaving blue because I remembered people saying GP has a great level 1. I did win with 2 q's and an extra auto, but then later on he kept beating me by throwing Qs at me and predicting my Qs. Anyways it started getting better and I could just farm and sustain his Q's when I started finally getting more points in W, being safe not to get taunted when my W was down.
Ended up getting carried. I feel like GP gets countered by Shen. Shen's W lets him harass you down while taking less damage than you and if you constantly eat oranges you make yourself vulnerable to a taunt.
I wouldn't say Shen counters you. I'd say he a rough matchup, but he really has no offensive potential on you. He cannot stop you from going farm mode what so ever.
You basically have two real choices:
1) all in super early. Either level 1 in River brush, autoQauto into as long a trade as possible, if you ignite they pretty much have to go back, or at level two with an E from lane brush (to not telegraph the "Hey, i'ma all in you now!") into a autoQauto ignite.
Thing with this is, you wont kill him. You definitely wont kill him. You will likely get him to back though, which is huuge this early.
Disagree with that. GP can solo kill almost anybody w/o an escape. If you're against Shen and you're starting redpot you will most likely kill him if you catch him going through river. 3stack passive slow lets you get off a couple extra autos.
Shen has an escape. He also has flash.
What kind of player goes to lane with skills already skilled?
o.o
If I'm playing Shen, i'd be walking from leashing with no skill, would pres CTRL+E and escape. No way you kill him.
Even if he doesn't do that, I dont think following flash against a Shen a smart move unless he guaranteed dead anyway, would rather just take him using his summoner, keep my flash and have that boon in my backpocket for later. A good jungler that knows GP has no flash against a Shen will kill you.
Good players knowing you dont have flash means your life sucks.
A lot of shens take Q first to help their jungler on the buff because it's actually a really good leashing skill. Also you really don't want to start taunt as shen vs GP because GP is great at zoning you and that puts you really behind. Taunt gives you neither sustain nor shield so it's an especially shitty lvl 1 for Shen who already is at a disadvantage @ lvl 1. If you take taunt I will happily let you escape and make your lvl 1 and 2 miserable.
Otherwise, I would probably follow Shen if he flashed, even if you're only 75% certain you're going to get the kill. It allows you to push the lane to tower and back. Ideally by then the tower will be pushing back to you. Also a lack of flash works both ways. I would say that Shen is only marginally better at surviving ganks than GP because of GP W completely countering taunt and Shen's lackluster damage. Early game GP with a level and health advantage with red pot can actually consistently 1v2 in ganks, depending on who the opposing jungler is.
Of course this is all dependent on Shen going through the river.
On November 06 2013 23:53 zekimar wrote: I've been finding that statikk shiv + E passive can make you faster than some champions that have t2 boots(i've been seeing around ~400 ms), so is it reasonable just to skip t2 boots until very late/not get boots at all if the enemy team is fairly slow?
This is how Dyrus thinks about it (not just GP) and I think this makes sense.
If you are split pushing/laning: boots are low priority (maximize straight up 1v1 strength)
If you are teamfighting: get boots. (maximize mobility === flexibility in a teamfight)
MS helps GP take advantage of his passive with his auto attacks but when you have statik shiv you can get the statik proc + 1 passive proc with just your Q so you honestly don't need to get close. Also because of E I think that you can stay on T1 boots for most of the game. When you think it's about time to roam/teamfight or when at least one of your lane's towers are down you should get T2 boots (almost always tabis... maybe CDR or mercs)
With the changed masteries and meta, korean gp doesn't seem as viable since 1/22/7 sucks. Time to switch back to 21/9? Or 0/21/9 and farm forever using the new utility masteries to sustain forever?
pretty sure you'll win trades way harder if you go for 0/21/9 instead of 9/21/0. The offense masteries are only worth it if you go deeper, the biscuit and the nuts regen in the defense tree are way better than the shit masteries on the low offense tree
How is the regen nuts? With your mana pool, it's something like 1-1.5 hp5 during the laning phase, up to 2 hp5 after some levels maybe. It's not that bad, but far from gamebreaking.
I was talking about all 9 points in utility tree as a whole being a significant boost to laning. Mp5/hp5/BISCUITS/ms/improved recall are all crazy good on GP.
Oh, I agree then. I thought you were talking about SoS specifically, which sounds as underwhelming as ever to me (since it only really kicks in late game, or around 15-20 minutes if you build Tear, and in most cases laning is over by then).
Meh even koreanplank seems pretty dead now since every single top laner is a megatank that can just shove you to turret while shrugging off harass. Focusing on magic damage like koreanplank build doesn't matter since they will be getting spirit visage as a 1st or 2nd item anyways. Even if you can cheese a kill early on when you are strong you still will get fucked.
I main gangplank top now and it's very strong, you just need to learn the passive-stacker-dance. Dont just q, dont just auto. In and out, like a waterdancer.
Been playing him mid with 0/21/9 masteries and my adc page (4% lifesteal, 1 AD quint, AD marks with 1 critchance, armor, mixed MR) and going SotEL/Shiv/Mallet/Wits kinds of things. It's lots of fun to have so much gold so early because most casters can't kill you through W and Spirit Stone regen and then you have infinite slows.
My go to build for all cases where the opposing team has both ad and ap damage is spirit visage and frozen heart, because before the cdr nerf on sv that gave me 40% cdr, which was brilliant for the oranges especially, but also having the ult up every teamfight is nice.
Lately I've started going randuins instead of frozen heart, unless there's both an attackspeed heavy adc and something like a Tryndamere on the other team. I gotta say, I'm so happy when I can go randuins, because it's just soooo much better than frozen heart against anything but the previously mentioned comp, and the extra health makes an enormous difference in teamfights. When laning against ad nukers such as Riven I always rush randuins first, along with ninja tabi. You become such a more significant threat because you can take the whole combo without getting destroyed.
Against anything but ad assassins I usually rush shiv, because the shiv q powerspike is just bonkers early to mid, followed by trinity force. I love the trinity force for the extra q damage and the movespeed, but I'm starting to wonder if gauntlet wouldn't be better for the team as a whole. I mean who needs speed and damage when you can aoe slow for your whole team? Also armor.
I've been screwing around with full damage when we're winning or we don't have enough damage, and I gotta say it's pretty awful unless you're already winning :p Sure, you can basically oneshot a squishy, but you're so squishy yourself that unless your first q crits and deletes something important you're basically useless in teamfights.
also: I've found you should never take tank masteries as gp. You can survive anything either way if you play it right, and taking tank masteries means your damage is so weak you may as well not even try to trade, you're hardly a threat at all against anyone with a smidgeon of sustain, and even if your jungler gets a strong gank off you don't have the damage to seal the deal.
IMO defensive masteries on GP is a no-no. You shouldn´t rely on defensive masteries for sustain (perseverance) because you risk getting comboed if dropping low and with W you can stay healthy, plus as mentioned above GP feels like he needs the damage boost from offensive masteries to compete.
I have been going 21/9/0 rushing gauntlet followed by cdr boots and it feels really solid against ads top. Allows you to win trades once you complete the Iceborn (mostly because many times you can avoid getting hit at all).Having near max cdr (I take cdr glyphs too) gives you more sustain than getting some lifesteal or dorans, and ulting other lanes constantly takes a lot of pressure off your teammates. I also go hybrid pen reds and quints for that extra damage comboed with offensive masteries. Making sure they can´t ignore the ulti, and allows me to move into something like sunfire+wit´s for persistent damage. I feel this kind of offensive supportish build is the best route to go on GP. Gauntlet might not be much damage but it feels just right with offensive masteries and some ArPen.
I've played like 30 games at the gold-plat level with GP top over the last few months and he actually seems not as bad as usual. Plus most importantly he is super fun. The decline in megatanks means he doesn't have as many terrible matchups and his damage doesn't fall off as drastically mid/late game. He actually has some decent matchups in lane against meta champs like liss/gnar/rumble, since his Q poke is as good or better harass as theirs while he also has W to sustain and get out of cc/all ins. If they build armor to counter his Q harass its great since I get shiv 1st item which still destroys them. The constant harass will force them to use their TP to get back to lane while you can use yours to help drag fights (or take ignite for kill pressure and use ult to help drag/other lanes). However Irelia totally puts it in his butt.
I'm also able to cheese first blood at lvl 1 seemingly 50% of the time, either in bush before minions arrive or at lvl 1 if they get close enough for an AA+Q+AA. Even with the adjusted early game stats I'm not sure theres a champ you lose to at lvl 1, even with a flask start against d sword. Don't even need ignite for this but it helps. Obv an early kill is another big advantage which helps cover all the weaknesses.
I max W or at least get 4+ levels in it which helps sustain in lane, survive ganks, and helps win almost all trades and duels because that burst heal is insane. Especially helps that almost no one takes ignite anymore. Start flask into zeal->shiv unless against heavy AD like riven or panth where I go cloth into glacial/IBG. If you are at all ahead, finishing shiv gives you a huge powerspike since they will have no HP or MR items at that point. It also screws champs like rumble or liss who probably go seekers first since that armor does nothing against the proc. Shiv 1st item also means you can hold off on boots for a while. Leaving Q at lvl 1 for a while means the Q harass only costs 50 mana while doing big damage with the shiv proc.
After shiv if I'm not horribly behind I get Triforce. Thats a lot of money to get into offensive items before defensive, but with shiv + tri + e passive your movespeed is huge which lets you kite while Qing and you have W as a get out of jail card. Shiv + tri + E passive also lets you forgo boots or at least lvl 2 boots until necessary which saves a little gold. The midgame powerspike of shiv+ tri is insane and lets you murder squishys while still bringing good utility to fights with ult and E. Landing a Q crit on someone in an extended siege or drag standoff can win a fight or an objective.
Defensive items I get visage + FH/randuins. SV + FH is preferred for all that CDR. 6th item is preference but the dream is to also get an IE for that delicious shiv + tri + IE Q goodness.
I have only 20 games this season on GP but when I played him I felt that going Sheen first gave me a bigger power spike after my first back. AP improves W heal and the item gives much needed mana for fighting in lane and the proc on Q make it a great first buy. Depending on how the lane goes I buy either the other triforce components or glacial shroud for IBG. After that I buy a tank item to not get blown up in mid game fights. My biggest concern with GP is that I feel utterly useless when I am behind. Meta toplaners like Gnar and Liss have huge teamfight ults and hard cc to lock down targets. GP just gets kited around since his passive is useless outside of lane.
Yeah, if you are behind you are worthless, no damage and blown up instantly. The utility from ult and E is 'ok' in a vaccuum but nothing compared to what other meta tops bring. The good thing is with junglers less dominant you don't have to fear lvl 3 ganks really, and by maxing W and having tp its harder to fall behind.
I don't like sheen as a 1st buy unless you are getting IBG because triforce costs another ~2500 gold to finish. Shiv after zeal is only 1400 gold which means you hopefully get the shiv powerspike on your 2nd recall. GP is very weak after his strong early game, especially if you are leveling W, so getting that faster powerspike with Shiv is really important. Shiv also counters the armor people will buy to protect against the harass, whereas sheen + phage for the same price doesn't since its all physical damage. Plus ppl tend to run cdr or ap or ap/lvl against you (since GP is only physical damage amirite which means magic damage even better).
Say you are against a liss, you don't cheese a kill early so its even, both recall with ~1300 gold. You get sheen, liss gets seekers. 2nd recall, you get idk phage, she gets catalyst. With that hp buffer + the seekers armor she can pretty much ignore your harass since its all physical. Instead, if you had a finished shiv on that 2nd recall, you wreck her. The 100 magic damage from the shiv proc is probably similar to what you would get from the sheen proc, except its magic damage which they aren't itemizing against, has the 20% chance to crit, and is finished faster.
I feel bad rushing shiv because of all the free gold I'm no longer getting from avarice. Best case scenario I get avarice first and then finish triforce and maybe a defensive item before shiv, nets me 500-700 extra gold, but there's obviously a risk involved with gimping yourself like that, and vs certain matchups (Riven for example) it's just suicide.
On January 14 2015 01:54 Kotfluegel wrote: Mhhh OK. I will try Shiv first next time I play him. But isn't it better to buy avarice + boots/crit glove first because of the synergy with your Q?
If you think you're ever going to fight in melee range Zeal is the better choice. Avarice is better when you only want to farm/poke with Q because in those situations Zeal's attack speed and movement speed do pretty much nothing. You also have to be sure your enemy can't start bullying you off CS because you sunk gold into Avarice (kind of defeats the purpose of the item!) as fighting stat wise it's only very slightly better than Brawler's Gloves (8% -> 10%) but twice as expensive.
Also a minor nitpick: the gold gain from Avarice doesn't actually synergize with Parrrley at all, even though it might kind of seem like it does. Using your Q will net you the same amount of extra gold over last hitting with something else regardless of whether you have Avarice or not. The +2g on top of it is awarded to you no matter how you kill the minion.
On January 14 2015 01:54 Kotfluegel wrote: Mhhh OK. I will try Shiv first next time I play him. But isn't it better to buy avarice + boots/crit glove first because of the synergy with your Q?
Also a minor nitpick: the gold gain from Avarice doesn't actually synergize with Parrrley at all, even though it might kind of seem like it does. Using your Q will net you the same amount of extra gold over last hitting with something else regardless of whether you have Avarice or not. The +2g on top of it is awarded to you no matter how you kill the minion.
Maybe bad wording from me. I wanted to say that you use your Q more for farming instead of harrassing since you dont do any damage with lvl1 Q. But if you play like that you cannot expect to win your lane... I wonder what happened to the GP rework that was announced over a year ago.
On January 14 2015 01:54 Kotfluegel wrote: Mhhh OK. I will try Shiv first next time I play him. But isn't it better to buy avarice + boots/crit glove first because of the synergy with your Q?
Also a minor nitpick: the gold gain from Avarice doesn't actually synergize with Parrrley at all, even though it might kind of seem like it does. Using your Q will net you the same amount of extra gold over last hitting with something else regardless of whether you have Avarice or not. The +2g on top of it is awarded to you no matter how you kill the minion.
Maybe bad wording from me. I wanted to say that you use your Q more for farming instead of harrassing since you dont do any damage with lvl1 Q. But if you play like that you cannot expect to win your lane... I wonder what happened to the GP rework that was announced over a year ago.
Hey, I don't play GP, but this has got me wondering--can GP be played mid? Assuming that Q would be used for farm, I feel like he has excellent anti CC/ assassin in his w, and a good speed up/ attack boost for ganks with his e, and his R allows him the ability to remotely roam.
Lack of waveclear would be the biggest issue with playing GP mid, I'm afraid. You might be able to trick their mid laner into not running armor and force them to back early, but there's not as much kill potential in a shorter lane (GP generally kills people at low levels by running them down with E and passive slow/DOT), and after items you'll almost certainly be shoved in and run out of mana.
I've only really played GP in normals recently, but he was one of the champions I first played with. maxing W then E with Shiv-resists/CDR seems like a strong build to me, I feel like a second damage item would really limit your life expectancy in a fight, even with W. I tend to play GP as a facilitator for hard engage: you can't really start a fight by yourself, but by slowing a couple of the enemy down with R and speeding up your team with E, you can up the odds of your teammates' skillshot CC landing.
Shiv by itself is just not enough damage to be relevant after lane. If you want to forgo a true 2nd damage item, IBG is probably a good pickup to let your Q still do solid damage while getting resists/CDR and more utility.
So has anyone managed to make new gangplank work in any way ? Scurvy got nerfed so hard in the early game... maxing it in lane like before seems pointless. Maxing parley to rush the 500 silvers seems not doable as you will also 100% lose lane. Basically with new gangplank I go 0/5 against any aggressive laner lol (worse I've faced was a tp ignite fizz with no jungler interaction on both sides... rip my pirate arse).
The new passive feels very meh as you can waste it on minions and there's no way you can last hit everything with parley so you are vulnerable for 15seconds every time you go for a simple last hit... parley not applying it also seems like a huge blow.
Basically the only good thing we got is this new E but I can't seem to make it work on a consistent basis. Sometimes I'm impressed by how much damage it can deal but most of the time I'm dead before I can use it effectively. It's very good mid/late game to farm silvers though as you can take a whole wave or more and get all the +bonus gold at the same time (once got like 100silvers+ in one shot).
I'm not sure which is the better ult upgrade yet, big cannon ball or more waves.
Overall the playstyle is very very different and either we will find an overpowered way to use E (and it will get nerfed) or gp will stay where he was anyway (or worse actually, he wasn't THAT bad I played him quite a lot around diamond3/2 with decent success).
parley not applying (passive) also seems like a huge blow.
Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. I guess the new, inflexible, skill order is R>Q>E>W. I'd also be interested to know how to use the barrels outside of peel and priming in a brush.
I've had middling success. The barrels are a high skill floor. I feel like they're useful but that I'm too bad to use them at the moment.
Like, just hitting with them is easy enough. But then you have to consider the speed boost, and the passive reset, and gank safety, and it becomes a lot of shit combined with the fact you're an immobile melee. It's the sort of mechanic I love, so I'm enjoying it. It's overwhelming though, especially when I think of how piss-easy the GP I'm used to is. I kinda miss just being able to Q guys down and not worry about shit but my mana pool.
The passive is a big boon used correctly. You smash towers along with your split-second waveclear, and it scales really hard. Using E just to reset it and harass is probably ideal in 'safe' lanes.
W is a one-point wonder now, so your safest play is now a lot less safe. But it's buffed at level 1, especially at low health levels. Overall, I think E or Q is fine to max. E for kill potential and more poke, Q for safety. You could probably go 3 into Q -> Max E, just so you guarantee an early ult upgrade for midgame.
Speaking of ult upgrades, Death's Daughter is great for stealing kills, haha, and if they won't be in it for long. Feels about equal to the fire-rate upgrade. The movespeed buff seems undertuned.
Really undecided on item builds. I think if you don't get kills/assists early, you're better off going Tforce/Shiv into bruiser items (Cleaver/maybe Mallet/Maw/Visage.) AD is a ton of damage and tower-pushing, but in teamfights, your margin for error is microscopic. Highest damage is Tforce/Shiv/IE/Hydra/BT or Ghostblade. I usually go something like Tforce/Shiv/IE/Maw/Randuin's. He'll probably benefit a lot when/if they redo AD items.
Assassins are a nightmare. I just try to not get annihilated.
If anybody tries him mid, I'd like to hear about the results. Seems like it'd be good against something he can poke down, and you've got a lot of safe use for barrels in a short lane. But no escapes...
Wow Parrley doesn't apply the passive? That's so dumb.
I think the true damage ult is better to get before the more waves one. I think 25% increase of total magic damage as true damage immediately is probably better than 50% more waves (50% increase in damage) over 8 seconds. The true damage one has more burst, and if your target has 100 or more mr, more overall damage even if your target stays in the ult for the full 8 seconds (they usually won't).
But you can buy all 3 upgrades.
And while remove scurvy may not have as much base scaling, at level 13, even with one rank in remove scurvy, and maybe 1500 life, you can still heal for up to 225 just from the 15% missing health. So if there's no cc worth removing, you can use it as a massive heal.
Overall he still feels weak. There's a lot of counterplay to his barrels and his new ult is gimped until he gets an upgrade for it. You need to get really good with barrels to bring GP to his potential.
His level 1-6 barrels take 3 seconds to prime which is way too long. Unless you auto them once in which case they go down to 2 seconds prep time. The level 7-12 barrels take 2 seconds to prime. If you auto the barrel it goes down to 1 second, but autoing a barrel can slow you down by a lot and reduce your dps in a straight up fist fight. The level 13+ barrels take 1 second to prime.
And his trial by fire does not proc on exploding a barrel so you want to use it by autoing an enemy before resetting trial by fire's cooldown it by exploding a barrel.
On July 26 2015 18:03 loSleb wrote: How can you buy all 3 upgrades? You would need around 200 last hits with Q for all 3 which doesn't seem very likely in most games.
Best case scenario, you set up E to clear the whole wave with a Parrrley. That's 8x6 = 48 silver serpents per wave, so about 100 per minute. Still, if I were going to farm 15 minutes, I might as well play Nasus.
On July 26 2015 18:03 loSleb wrote: How can you buy all 3 upgrades? You would need around 200 last hits with Q for all 3 which doesn't seem very likely in most games.
Once you have Tforce and especially once you have Shiv, it's very easy to instantly clear a wave with one barrel. Should be basically all of your CS. If you're splitting most of the game, getting all 1500 should be done by 25 minutes, 30 at worst.
God damn I love the rework. The instant waveclear, the ranged aoe burst, the passive speed and early true damage, this fixed pretty much all the issues GP had in exchange for the early sticking power. Sold.
I struggled early before I figured out how to use the slow decay barrels in lane, but these past two days I've been hardcarrying, holy crap the lategame plays with the barrels. So much fun. Q>E>W, triforce into whatever really, just get alot of ad for the barrel burst and some def if you're dying too fast, but with instant setup barrels you don't really need to be at the frontline anymore, I've gone alot of games as full damage and very few deaths.
New GP is win damage done or go home. Feels soooo good to land a good barrel sequence in a teamfight and melt the whole enemy team at once, holy shit xD
On July 28 2015 08:16 Osmoses wrote: New GP is win damage done or go home. Feels soooo good to land a good barrel sequence in a teamfight and melt the whole enemy team at once, holy shit xD
Can confirm, in games I won with GP I've been topping damage charts, even in games, in which I wasn't particularly carrying. I agree on the barrel thing; they're very hard to use optimally, but when you manage to do it they are devastating for the enemy. Very satisfying to play.
It'd be nice if it were easier to aim for a barrel in the middle of a bunch of units. I'm not sure if Parrley targets barrels at the moment if the cursor is near it.
On July 29 2015 09:09 obesechicken13 wrote: It'd be nice if it were easier to aim for a barrel in the middle of a bunch of units. I'm not sure if Parrley targets barrels at the moment if the cursor is near it.
Reddit seems to think Parrrley priotizes barrels. It would make sense, but I can't honestly tell for sure.
Also that Overpow build is hilarious. Add in a BT over one of the IEs and it's probably actually effective :l
While I don't play Gangplank myself, I can say that while laning against him if he hits barrels constantly you're going to be in for a rough time. Barrels hurt like mad - even if you're building tanky!
Of course, the problem is actually using the barrels effectively. But if you can do it, then I suspect you'll do well in lane. The one guy I was fighting was hiding his barrels in the bush, which I thought was clever.
Here's the post about low hp barrels getting prioritized over minions and champions. I think people need to do more tests though. Sometimes you want to shoot a barrel while it still has 2 ticks because you know by the time the shot gets there the barrel will only have 1 tick.
Alternatively what happens if the champion/minion is also low health?
Does botrk work with GP's barrels since they apply physical on hit-damage? It's hard to say what the best lifesteal item on GP is but If botrk works on him I think it's up there. I don't think Shiv is good anymore since you want to trigger harass using barrels more than Q. Often the shiv proc won't be in range of your target because they're going to be on a distant barrel. I don't think LW is very good. He gets 60% shred anyways and the way armor pen multiplicatively stacks is kind of bad.
So at level 18 barrels do a maximum of 200 bonus damage. Parrley 120+1.0AD Triforce gives 30 AD GP's base AD at 18 is 107 And if you're using AD marks and quints (some crit runes will give you higher expected damage but will lower the consistency and your early game last hitting). And Runes and masteries give him say another 30
So his total AD is 167 His barrels will deal 701 damage. Which for a 2 ability AoE damage effect (that eats a triforce) isn't too bad. Even assuming the 60% armor ignore basically makes the ability deal magic damage to squishier targets that have more armor than mr naturally(eg. 90 armor to 30mr), it's more damage than an Orianna has on 1 AP item with just a QW. I remember trading a barrel combo with an Orianna QW and we basically got chunked just as hard.
The base damage on the barrel is whatever the crit from the attack itself would have been, so it's no different from a regular crit--except it ignores 60% of their armor. It basically just adds 60% armor ignore to whatever attack is being done and then slaps on 80/110/140/170/200 magic damage on top of that.
So let's say he would have crit for 500 dmg on a parrrley or basic attack.
If he hits a barrel with it, he does 500 dmg physical AoE that ignores 60% armor, then an additional 200 magic on top of that.
Sheen/Triforce also get applied as the physical AoE ignored armor part. The skill is quite ridiculous right now and IE is super core IMO.
I agree that E feels really strong, but then you gotta take into consideration that it's the only (I think) ability in the game which the enemy can deny, potentially castrating GP in teamfights. And now that the GP rework is no longer brand new I have indeed started to notice adcs and supports focusing my barrels -_-
When you build IE and play around E you're already a caster more than anything, you should determine your position and stuff around your cooldowns and not try to sneak melee hits on non-frontliners other than to apply your passive between 2 Parrrleys on a keg.
From what little I've played him, kegs are definitely easier to use if you can entice the enemy team into initiating on you/chasing you than while chasing them (the limit is the Parrrley range so you drop a keg and keep running, then drop others and shoot the first one to trigger them, versus distance covered by the targets during the drops and Parrrley animation).
On August 12 2015 00:18 Alaric wrote: When you build IE and play around E you're already a caster more than anything, you should determine your position and stuff around your cooldowns and not try to sneak melee hits on non-frontliners other than to apply your passive between 2 Parrrleys on a keg.
From what little I've played him, kegs are definitely easier to use if you can entice the enemy team into initiating on you/chasing you than while chasing them (the limit is the Parrrley range so you drop a keg and keep running, then drop others and shoot the first one to trigger them, versus distance covered by the targets during the drops and Parrrley animation).
Theoretically barrel range is 1200 so if you're chasing you should be able to get someone 1200 units away from you when you start setting up barrels as long as you set up 2-3 barrels (each barrel has 400 range). But in my hands, I do find it easier to hit enemies with barrels when they're chasing me than when I'm chasing them.
Also the in game tooltip says a barrel decay happens every 2 seconds on your first 6 levels. That early delay sucks. I think the scaling should have been 1.5 -> 1 -> .5 but someone at Riot can't really math.
So I recently learned death's daughter only hits a small circle inside the ult.
I'm not sure, but maybe raise morale or fire at will are better.
Also the new GP's early game is bad right, I'm not just sucky at trading vs Riven all ins? It's really hard for me to give up cs that I can't get because Q is on CD so I keep walking up to auto them and get all-ined.
I'd say his laning against melees in general is damn strong. Stand on a barrel in the middle of your creeps and they cant engage on you. If they do, explode barrel, autothem, runaway, repeat. Always good to have another barrel behind you that you can run to afterwards.
On August 27 2015 15:15 Osmoses wrote: I'd say his laning against melees in general is damn strong. Stand on a barrel in the middle of your creeps and they cant engage on you. If they do, explode barrel, autothem, runaway, repeat. Always good to have another barrel behind you that you can run to afterwards.
I find most melees can get your barrels before you do at least half the time. Like Shen can literally taunt you and then auto the barrel. The barrel range is 200 radius and many melees have 175 attack range now. Usually I need to use a second barrel to harass melees.
Dance in font of the barrel so they can't click it. As for hitting it first, either you or your ping is too slow, you being in range the whole time gives you the obvious advantage. Sometimes a Riven for example can e and hit before I can react, but then he has wasted an ability and an auto on the barrel. If you're ahead, set another barrel and trade, otherwise hit him if you have passive or just run back, if he commits he will push the wave accidentally with q w. (this is where a second barrel behind you comes in handy).
I feel the hardest part about Gangplank is that you always need a barrel chain to actually hit anything with barrels, and the timing and mechanics are pretty complex. Might explain why even LCS pros are missing the barrels in playoffs.
Yeah before the final decayspeed you almost need to have at least one barrel setup beforetime, really awkward trying to auto q in teamfights before that.
On August 31 2015 02:57 Osmoses wrote: Yeah before the final decayspeed you almost need to have at least one barrel setup beforetime, really awkward trying to auto q in teamfights before that.
It's awkward but it tends to work out a lot anyways. Sometimes people preemptively back off. It's harder to know when to place barrels so your enemies aren't focused on killing them and can't just run away from them, to chain barrels such that you can do them quickly before enemies react, and accurately for maximum coverage and range.
Thanks. That GMB game with the reddit post where he chained barrels was nice. It didn't look like he'd mastered it so it's scary to think of the level of GP play that might exist above GMB. He also got his first ult upgrade at 13 minutes. It takes me...? 25 minutes to get one?
I honestly can't decide, they do differen't things which are good for different comps. I'd say the truedamage one is the least useful because it's just a little more damage in a particular, easily dodged spot. Biggest use is for sniping low health people who are recalling near a ward. The longer is better if you are spending whole teamfights inside it, the speedup is best for disengage comps.
So with the e-delay nerf I feel like it's too risky to go full damage and hope you get a double barrel crit in an important teamfight. Instead I've started building hybrid tanky with titanic and steraks after ie. Means you can be a bruiser and land single barrels+passive multiple times in a teamfight. It's pretty fun, not unlike how I used to play him before the rework.
Is it worth doubling up on a crit item to get max crit?
Tri-Force + ghostblade + IE + PD = 80% crit. A shiv or second IE gives 100% crit, but I feel my 6th item should be either BT for dueling, LW against armored champs, or Scimitar for cc.