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Yeah, if you are behind you are worthless, no damage and blown up instantly. The utility from ult and E is 'ok' in a vaccuum but nothing compared to what other meta tops bring. The good thing is with junglers less dominant you don't have to fear lvl 3 ganks really, and by maxing W and having tp its harder to fall behind.
I don't like sheen as a 1st buy unless you are getting IBG because triforce costs another ~2500 gold to finish. Shiv after zeal is only 1400 gold which means you hopefully get the shiv powerspike on your 2nd recall. GP is very weak after his strong early game, especially if you are leveling W, so getting that faster powerspike with Shiv is really important. Shiv also counters the armor people will buy to protect against the harass, whereas sheen + phage for the same price doesn't since its all physical damage. Plus ppl tend to run cdr or ap or ap/lvl against you (since GP is only physical damage amirite which means magic damage even better).
Say you are against a liss, you don't cheese a kill early so its even, both recall with ~1300 gold. You get sheen, liss gets seekers. 2nd recall, you get idk phage, she gets catalyst. With that hp buffer + the seekers armor she can pretty much ignore your harass since its all physical. Instead, if you had a finished shiv on that 2nd recall, you wreck her. The 100 magic damage from the shiv proc is probably similar to what you would get from the sheen proc, except its magic damage which they aren't itemizing against, has the 20% chance to crit, and is finished faster.
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Mhhh OK. I will try Shiv first next time I play him. But isn't it better to buy avarice + boots/crit glove first because of the synergy with your Q?
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I feel bad rushing shiv because of all the free gold I'm no longer getting from avarice. Best case scenario I get avarice first and then finish triforce and maybe a defensive item before shiv, nets me 500-700 extra gold, but there's obviously a risk involved with gimping yourself like that, and vs certain matchups (Riven for example) it's just suicide.
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On January 14 2015 01:54 Kotfluegel wrote:
Mhhh OK. I will try Shiv first next time I play him. But isn't it better to buy avarice + boots/crit glove first because of the synergy with your Q?
If you think you're ever going to fight in melee range Zeal is the better choice. Avarice is better when you only want to farm/poke with Q because in those situations Zeal's attack speed and movement speed do pretty much nothing. You also have to be sure your enemy can't start bullying you off CS because you sunk gold into Avarice (kind of defeats the purpose of the item!) as fighting stat wise it's only very slightly better than Brawler's Gloves (8% -> 10%) but twice as expensive.
Also a minor nitpick: the gold gain from Avarice doesn't actually synergize with Parrrley at all, even though it might kind of seem like it does. Using your Q will net you the same amount of extra gold over last hitting with something else regardless of whether you have Avarice or not. The +2g on top of it is awarded to you no matter how you kill the minion.
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On January 14 2015 03:32 Meedio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:54 Kotfluegel wrote:
Mhhh OK. I will try Shiv first next time I play him. But isn't it better to buy avarice + boots/crit glove first because of the synergy with your Q? Also a minor nitpick: the gold gain from Avarice doesn't actually synergize with Parrrley at all, even though it might kind of seem like it does. Using your Q will net you the same amount of extra gold over last hitting with something else regardless of whether you have Avarice or not. The +2g on top of it is awarded to you no matter how you kill the minion.
Maybe bad wording from me. I wanted to say that you use your Q more for farming instead of harrassing since you dont do any damage with lvl1 Q. But if you play like that you cannot expect to win your lane...
I wonder what happened to the GP rework that was announced over a year ago.
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On January 14 2015 03:45 Kotfluegel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 03:32 Meedio wrote:On January 14 2015 01:54 Kotfluegel wrote:
Mhhh OK. I will try Shiv first next time I play him. But isn't it better to buy avarice + boots/crit glove first because of the synergy with your Q? Also a minor nitpick: the gold gain from Avarice doesn't actually synergize with Parrrley at all, even though it might kind of seem like it does. Using your Q will net you the same amount of extra gold over last hitting with something else regardless of whether you have Avarice or not. The +2g on top of it is awarded to you no matter how you kill the minion. Maybe bad wording from me. I wanted to say that you use your Q more for farming instead of harrassing since you dont do any damage with lvl1 Q. But if you play like that you cannot expect to win your lane... I wonder what happened to the GP rework that was announced over a year ago.
Hey, I don't play GP, but this has got me wondering--can GP be played mid? Assuming that Q would be used for farm, I feel like he has excellent anti CC/ assassin in his w, and a good speed up/ attack boost for ganks with his e, and his R allows him the ability to remotely roam.
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I've done well with him mid, but you don't bring near enough utility or damage to be a "viable" mid pick.
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Lack of waveclear would be the biggest issue with playing GP mid, I'm afraid. You might be able to trick their mid laner into not running armor and force them to back early, but there's not as much kill potential in a shorter lane (GP generally kills people at low levels by running them down with E and passive slow/DOT), and after items you'll almost certainly be shoved in and run out of mana.
I've only really played GP in normals recently, but he was one of the champions I first played with. maxing W then E with Shiv-resists/CDR seems like a strong build to me, I feel like a second damage item would really limit your life expectancy in a fight, even with W. I tend to play GP as a facilitator for hard engage: you can't really start a fight by yourself, but by slowing a couple of the enemy down with R and speeding up your team with E, you can up the odds of your teammates' skillshot CC landing.
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Shiv by itself is just not enough damage to be relevant after lane. If you want to forgo a true 2nd damage item, IBG is probably a good pickup to let your Q still do solid damage while getting resists/CDR and more utility.
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So has anyone managed to make new gangplank work in any way ? Scurvy got nerfed so hard in the early game... maxing it in lane like before seems pointless. Maxing parley to rush the 500 silvers seems not doable as you will also 100% lose lane. Basically with new gangplank I go 0/5 against any aggressive laner lol (worse I've faced was a tp ignite fizz with no jungler interaction on both sides... rip my pirate arse).
The new passive feels very meh as you can waste it on minions and there's no way you can last hit everything with parley so you are vulnerable for 15seconds every time you go for a simple last hit... parley not applying it also seems like a huge blow.
Basically the only good thing we got is this new E but I can't seem to make it work on a consistent basis. Sometimes I'm impressed by how much damage it can deal but most of the time I'm dead before I can use it effectively. It's very good mid/late game to farm silvers though as you can take a whole wave or more and get all the +bonus gold at the same time (once got like 100silvers+ in one shot).
I'm not sure which is the better ult upgrade yet, big cannon ball or more waves.
Overall the playstyle is very very different and either we will find an overpowered way to use E (and it will get nerfed) or gp will stay where he was anyway (or worse actually, he wasn't THAT bad I played him quite a lot around diamond3/2 with decent success).
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parley not applying (passive) also seems like a huge blow.
Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. I guess the new, inflexible, skill order is R>Q>E>W. I'd also be interested to know how to use the barrels outside of peel and priming in a brush.
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I've had middling success. The barrels are a high skill floor. I feel like they're useful but that I'm too bad to use them at the moment.
Like, just hitting with them is easy enough. But then you have to consider the speed boost, and the passive reset, and gank safety, and it becomes a lot of shit combined with the fact you're an immobile melee. It's the sort of mechanic I love, so I'm enjoying it. It's overwhelming though, especially when I think of how piss-easy the GP I'm used to is. I kinda miss just being able to Q guys down and not worry about shit but my mana pool.
The passive is a big boon used correctly. You smash towers along with your split-second waveclear, and it scales really hard. Using E just to reset it and harass is probably ideal in 'safe' lanes.
W is a one-point wonder now, so your safest play is now a lot less safe. But it's buffed at level 1, especially at low health levels. Overall, I think E or Q is fine to max. E for kill potential and more poke, Q for safety. You could probably go 3 into Q -> Max E, just so you guarantee an early ult upgrade for midgame.
Speaking of ult upgrades, Death's Daughter is great for stealing kills, haha, and if they won't be in it for long. Feels about equal to the fire-rate upgrade. The movespeed buff seems undertuned.
Really undecided on item builds. I think if you don't get kills/assists early, you're better off going Tforce/Shiv into bruiser items (Cleaver/maybe Mallet/Maw/Visage.) AD is a ton of damage and tower-pushing, but in teamfights, your margin for error is microscopic. Highest damage is Tforce/Shiv/IE/Hydra/BT or Ghostblade. I usually go something like Tforce/Shiv/IE/Maw/Randuin's. He'll probably benefit a lot when/if they redo AD items.
Assassins are a nightmare. I just try to not get annihilated.
If anybody tries him mid, I'd like to hear about the results. Seems like it'd be good against something he can poke down, and you've got a lot of safe use for barrels in a short lane. But no escapes...
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Wow Parrley doesn't apply the passive? That's so dumb.
I think the true damage ult is better to get before the more waves one. I think 25% increase of total magic damage as true damage immediately is probably better than 50% more waves (50% increase in damage) over 8 seconds. The true damage one has more burst, and if your target has 100 or more mr, more overall damage even if your target stays in the ult for the full 8 seconds (they usually won't).
But you can buy all 3 upgrades.
And while remove scurvy may not have as much base scaling, at level 13, even with one rank in remove scurvy, and maybe 1500 life, you can still heal for up to 225 just from the 15% missing health. So if there's no cc worth removing, you can use it as a massive heal.
Overall he still feels weak. There's a lot of counterplay to his barrels and his new ult is gimped until he gets an upgrade for it. You need to get really good with barrels to bring GP to his potential.
His level 1-6 barrels take 3 seconds to prime which is way too long. Unless you auto them once in which case they go down to 2 seconds prep time.
The level 7-12 barrels take 2 seconds to prime. If you auto the barrel it goes down to 1 second, but autoing a barrel can slow you down by a lot and reduce your dps in a straight up fist fight.
The level 13+ barrels take 1 second to prime.
And his trial by fire does not proc on exploding a barrel so you want to use it by autoing an enemy before resetting trial by fire's cooldown it by exploding a barrel.
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How can you buy all 3 upgrades? You would need around 200 last hits with Q for all 3 which doesn't seem very likely in most games.
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On July 26 2015 18:03 loSleb wrote:
How can you buy all 3 upgrades? You would need around 200 last hits with Q for all 3 which doesn't seem very likely in most games.
Best case scenario, you set up E to clear the whole wave with a Parrrley. That's 8x6 = 48 silver serpents per wave, so about 100 per minute.
Still, if I were going to farm 15 minutes, I might as well play Nasus.
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On July 26 2015 18:03 loSleb wrote:
How can you buy all 3 upgrades? You would need around 200 last hits with Q for all 3 which doesn't seem very likely in most games.
Once you have Tforce and especially once you have Shiv, it's very easy to instantly clear a wave with one barrel. Should be basically all of your CS. If you're splitting most of the game, getting all 1500 should be done by 25 minutes, 30 at worst.
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God damn I love the rework. The instant waveclear, the ranged aoe burst, the passive speed and early true damage, this fixed pretty much all the issues GP had in exchange for the early sticking power. Sold.
I struggled early before I figured out how to use the slow decay barrels in lane, but these past two days I've been hardcarrying, holy crap the lategame plays with the barrels. So much fun. Q>E>W, triforce into whatever really, just get alot of ad for the barrel burst and some def if you're dying too fast, but with instant setup barrels you don't really need to be at the frontline anymore, I've gone alot of games as full damage and very few deaths.
New GP is win damage done or go home. Feels soooo good to land a good barrel sequence in a teamfight and melt the whole enemy team at once, holy shit xD
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On July 28 2015 08:16 Osmoses wrote:
New GP is win damage done or go home. Feels soooo good to land a good barrel sequence in a teamfight and melt the whole enemy team at once, holy shit xD
Can confirm, in games I won with GP I've been topping damage charts, even in games, in which I wasn't particularly carrying. I agree on the barrel thing; they're very hard to use optimally, but when you manage to do it they are devastating for the enemy. Very satisfying to play.
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It'd be nice if it were easier to aim for a barrel in the middle of a bunch of units. I'm not sure if Parrley targets barrels at the moment if the cursor is near it.
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EPT
